Zyla
Underboss
1209 Posts
    
 | | 28 Jul 2007 08:17 PM | | Here is the next Epic card for August, found it on hordelings: Epic Dread Wraith 186 points
level: 10
Speed: F8
AC: 24
HP 105
Melee: +21/+21 (20 magic/20 magic + Con drain)
Type: Large Undead
Special Abilities:
Flight
Incorporeal
Undead Traits
Constitution Drain +20 (Whenever this creatures's melee attack deals damage to a living creature, the damaged creature must make a save, or it takes damage +20 and this creature gets +20hp; DC 25)
Fearless
Melee Reach 2 | | | | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2662 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 28 Jul 2007 08:21 PM | | Wow, that's wierd. I didn't expect the Dread Wraith. I only have 2 NB rares, the Dread Wraith and the Heirophant. Freaky.
It's an o.k. mini, but 105 HP in epic for 186 pts isn't very worth it. But man, did they up the con drain. | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1209 Posts
| | 28 Jul 2007 08:24 PM | | Not even Epic could save the dread wraith, but at least its the first epic with incorporeal | | | | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 28 Jul 2007 08:46 PM | | Wow, now it can be twice as crappy. What's with the less than good epic cards? The storm archer's the only one that really sees any tournament play. If they want to encourage epic play (do they even want to do that?) this really isn't the way. 105 hp, even with incorporeal, is nothing in epic. | |  | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2662 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 28 Jul 2007 09:02 PM | | Posted By Richard II on 07/28/2007 8:46 PM
...105 hp, even with incorporeal, is nothing in epic. They're combining the Dread Wraith's normal stats with epic-ized stats. Look in the MM and you'll see the Dread Wraith has 105 HP, but does an extra 10 dmg with a HP drain of 5. | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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juanchoquinche
Sneak
161 Posts
colombia/bogota
| | 28 Jul 2007 09:25 PM | | the epic version is better than the normal version; i think this  but only need more life | | called shot:
dungeon of dread: medium bronze dragon
desert desolation: sand giant champion
champion of zelekhut | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10163 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 28 Jul 2007 10:48 PM | | Not great... | | | |
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Artificer
LCS
Underboss
2130 Posts
| | 29 Jul 2007 12:03 AM | |
It's not terrible either.
Sure, the Dread Wraith isn't happy to see an epic Tordek across the table, but otherwise 105 incorporeal hit points ought to last a while. LE has minis that can heal it effectively, and unless the Wraith is facing a warband full of non-living enemies, it's drain will average out to about Regeneration 15 (getting Con Drain 20 for 3 out of every 4 rounds) with the advantage that it would even be able to increase it's HP above the starting 105 if the spoiled stats we have are correct.
Combine it with Shuluth to get even more hp from Con Drain off of attacks of opportunity...
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TheChuck
349 Posts
Mississippi, USA
| | 29 Jul 2007 12:34 AM | | Very surprising to see the Dread Wraith. I was expecting the Aspect of Loviatar or Lady Vol. You bet that I'm going to play this with some Beholders and a Dark Naga in an Epic fight, just for fun if nothing else! | | Vindicated Champion of a Shadow Mastiff!! DoD 36/60
Vindicated Against the Giants called shot: Huge White Dragon: Elder White Dragon AtG 59/60
Demonweb Called shot: Aspect of Baphomet | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 29 Jul 2007 02:02 AM | | Unbelievable. Too few HP, Conceal has always been a gamble But he has some potential, esp. with Beholders. And he drains just on the second attack? | | 2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Salsero
Sneak
155 Posts
México City
| | 29 Jul 2007 02:19 AM | | Wouldn't beholders (and such) have to succeed an incorporeal check to heal the dread wraith, since it's negative damage? | | | | |
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Tooninki
Warrior
279 Posts
Finland
| | 29 Jul 2007 04:33 AM | | I think both attack's has constitution drain!? | | Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 29 Jul 2007 05:39 AM | | Posted By Salsero on 07/29/2007 2:19 AM
Wouldn't beholders (and such) have to succeed an incorporeal check to heal the dread wraith, since it's negative damage? I don't know. They can fail the DC check. I have never tried to heal a SW  Can someone answer this please? | | 2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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basic_aim
Sneak
173 Posts
London ON. Canada
| | 29 Jul 2007 05:40 AM | | Why???
Really Dread(ful) Wraith I want to hurl there are sooooo many better choices for epic cards from this set....
Frost Giant Jarl
Aspect of Loviatar
Lady Vol
Orc Banebreak Rider
Exarch of Tyranny
But the Dread Wraith??? WTF is WoTC R&D thinking | | | | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 29 Jul 2007 05:58 AM | | Posted By Salsero on 07/29/2007 2:19 AM
Wouldn't beholders (and such) have to succeed an incorporeal check to heal the dread wraith, since it's negative damage? No, because they are not damaging effects to the undead. No incorporeal check needed, just like with a Ray of Enfeablement. I kind of like it. Except for against the Grumpy Runt, this piece could be mui annoying. Not game-breaking but a nice piece to run in front of a few beholders. | | Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 29 Jul 2007 06:30 AM | | Not one I would have chosen here. So many more deserving candidates. Oh well. | | | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
6031 Posts
Lortab Land
| | 29 Jul 2007 08:21 AM | | Posted By basic_aim on 07/29/2007 5:40 AM
Why???
Really Dread(ful) Wraith I want to hurl there are sooooo many better choices for epic cards from this set....
Frost Giant Jarl
Aspect of Loviatar
Lady Vol
Orc Banebreak Rider
Exarch of Tyranny
But the Dread Wraith??? WTF is WoTC R&D thinking They just roll some dice and compare the result with the setlist. | | Posted By Wraithborne on 04/27/2008 7:54 PM
Yup, I'm a regular blasphemator of the English Lanuage. | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2662 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 29 Jul 2007 08:38 AM | | Posted By basic_aim on 07/29/2007 5:40 AM
Why???
Really Dread(ful) Wraith I want to hurl there are sooooo many better choices for epic cards from this set....
Frost Giant Jarl
Aspect of Loviatar
Lady Vol
Orc Banebreak Rider
Exarch of Tyranny
But the Dread Wraith??? WTF is WoTC R&D thinking Here's what I understand. WotC creates the minis in the set not knowing how much they will be wanted. Being a Dread Wraith I'm sure they expected it to sell high(ish). Also, before him, the 30 HP Sacred Watcher seemed to do very well in the competative games (incorporeal and all that). The Dread Wraith is incorporeal. Along with a lot more HP than the Sacred Watcher, that could have made WotC think twice about putting his real stats on the regular card. Also, they seemed to think that lots of regenerating HP (from con drain) would make the incorporeal creature last a lot longer and harder to kill. That is true only to an extent. If they didn't make both attacks on the Dread Wraith's epic card con drainging it is probably because of this fact. The Dread Wraith would be gaining 40 'uncapped' HP. It's HP could rise to 200 very quickly. Apparently, that's over powering. When his stats came out, the reaction from the players was less than what they hoped for and the sale value seemed it wasn't going to last very long. Just like the Wizard of Turmish before him (who went through sort of the same thing) they decided to give him an epic card to hopefully make him better in epic and up his sale value (some people want the mini when they get it's epic card). | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2802 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 29 Jul 2007 09:43 AM | | yes i am dissapointed with the choice but the stats are good. | | | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 29 Jul 2007 10:10 AM | | Posted By ShadowLord XT on 07/29/2007 8:38 AM
WotC creates the minis in the set not knowing how much they will be wanted. Being a Dread Wraith I'm sure they expected it to sell high(ish). Also, before him, the 30 HP Sacred Watcher seemed to do very well in the competative games (incorporeal and all that).
The Dread Wraith is incorporeal. Along with a lot more HP than the Sacred Watcher, that could have made WotC think twice about putting his real stats on the regular card. Also, they seemed to think that lots of regenerating HP (from con drain) would make the incorporeal creature last a lot longer and harder to kill. That is true only to an extent. If they didn't make both attacks on the Dread Wraith's epic card con drainging it is probably because of this fact. The Dread Wraith would be gaining 40 'uncapped' HP. It's HP could rise to 200 very quickly. Apparently, that's over powering.
When his stats came out, the reaction from the players was less than what they hoped for and the sale value seemed it wasn't going to last very long. Just like the Wizard of Turmish before him (who went through sort of the same thing) they decided to give him an epic card to hopefully make him better in epic and up his sale value (some people want the mini when they get it's epic card). QFT. We should not forget it can move through walls to hunt fodder/weaker pieces to gain a lot of life. | | 2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 29 Jul 2007 03:15 PM | | Posted By Pedro on 07/29/2007 10:10 AM
QFT. We should not forget it can move through walls to hunt fodder/weaker pieces to gain a lot of life.
And while my opponent's dreadwraith is hunting my fodder, my warband is abusing the other 300+ pts of his. Or hers. Either way, I'll take that trade. | | | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5140 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 29 Jul 2007 03:33 PM | | If Con Drain is uncapped, the Epic Dread Wraith isn't terrible. If Con Drain applied to both attacks, Epic Dread Wraiths would be a serious force.
If Epic Tordek is on the other side of the map, however, Epic Dread Wraith is going to be one seriously unhappy camper. | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2662 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 29 Jul 2007 03:34 PM | | Posted By zenthrus on 07/29/2007 3:33 PM
If Con Drain is uncapped, the Epic Dread Wraith isn't terrible. If Con Drain applied to both attacks, Epic Dread Wraiths would be a serious force.
If Epic Tordek is on the other side of the map, however, Epic Dread Wraith is going to be one seriously unhappy camper. Well, if he hits Tordek twice that heals one attack...probably (DC 25). | | Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 29 Jul 2007 04:18 PM | | Re the beholder healing incorpeal. negative: (keyword) Negative damage is unaffected by DR and has no
effect on Construct creatures. An effect which normally deals negative
damage doesn't actually deal damage to Undead creatures. Instead, such
an effect removes damage from Undead creatures, and Undead creatures do
not make saves against these sorts of spells and effects. Bonuses to
damage dealt do not apply when an Undead creature is affected by a spell
or ability that would normally deal negative damage Course beholder wont be able to heal it if it's doing it's con drain like it should. I think it (the card) looks pretty good myself, possibily doing 60 damage to living, while getting more not over priced. Still would of liked other choices, and if it had to be a new set, an uncommon again would be nice. | | "Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
15942 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 30 Jul 2007 10:42 PM | | It's stats show a bit of promise, as there is a lot of undead healing available to LE. 105 HP might seem a little weak for epic, but remember that you can almost double that total because it is incorporeal (not quite double because of things with ghost touch). And it's 105 incorporeal, FEARLESS HP's that regenerate at a fairly decent rate. Just be sure to use your second attack when charging something. | | | Over 290 successful online DDM trades. | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
965 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 31 Jul 2007 12:16 PM | | two attacks with constitution drain, is better than one, and rmembe turn undead 10 make it run away! | | Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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SYB
Warrior
330 Posts
| | 31 Jul 2007 03:08 PM | | Posted By ShadowLord XT on 07/29/2007 8:38 AM
Here's what I understand.
WotC creates the minis in the set not knowing how much they will be wanted. Being a Dread Wraith I'm sure they expected it to sell high(ish). Also, before him, the 30 HP Sacred Watcher seemed to do very well in the competative games (incorporeal and all that).
The Dread Wraith is incorporeal. Along with a lot more HP than the Sacred Watcher, that could have made WotC think twice about putting his real stats on the regular card. Also, they seemed to think that lots of regenerating HP (from con drain) would make the incorporeal creature last a lot longer and harder to kill. That is true only to an extent. If they didn't make both attacks on the Dread Wraith's epic card con drainging it is probably because of this fact. The Dread Wraith would be gaining 40 'uncapped' HP. It's HP could rise to 200 very quickly. Apparently, that's over powering.
When his stats came out, the reaction from the players was less than what they hoped for and the sale value seemed it wasn't going to last very long. Just like the Wizard of Turmish before him (who went through sort of the same thing) they decided to give him an epic card to hopefully make him better in epic and up his sale value (some people want the mini when they get it's epic card). Quoted for Untruth WotC has these cards in production MONTHS before they are actually released. Night Below was released early July. This card was in production before the first spoiler even hit the net. Player reaction has absolutely nothing to do with the release of this epic card. Also, WotC could care less about whether an individual mini is hot or not, because that simply affects the secondary market and WotC has no interest or financial investment in the secondary market. -SYB | | | | |
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MuscledDestroyer
Sergeant
435 Posts
Prospect Park, Pa
| | 31 Jul 2007 03:55 PM | | I like it. Not too bad. | | | Champion of Grape Juice. Its delicious. | |
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