Most learned collectors of plactic  crack,

A trader recently made an unrealistic trade proposal to me, after spamming his/her wants on my trade thread. A counter, in his/her favour, was made and accepted.

This trader has only one completed trade whereas I have 93 on the current trade format and 54 before then. So naturally I asked the he/she send first.

He/she has replied that sending first is not an option.

I have since pointed out that it is a stipulation of trading with me that a specific number of completed trades are required before simultaneous shipping can occur.

I am just wondering whether the rest of you believe I am out-of-order or is this other trader deluding him/herself?

You shouldn't have to send first. An established trader like yourself has proven time and time again that you can be trusted. Don't let a noob talk you into sending first.

IMO you are right no where near being 'out of line.'  Not only did you clearly stipulate your trade requirements ahead of time, they are standard trading requirements for all of us here.  See said trade thread:

http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/64/postid/438363/view/topic/Default.aspx

Your trade partner if he / she wishes to trade with anyone else here on Maxmini's had best learn a little trading etiquette (see above thread).Â

I don't think you are out of order. Far from it.

I think the other trader has the right to ask sim-send, and to refuse to trade if not accepted, but to demand it is silly. As would be getting upset when you won't. And they shouldnt get offended when/if asked to send first. Even if blunty told.

With 93 (+54) trades, comapred to one, I`ld be shocked if you did agree to sim send, or anything other than the other trader with 1 send first.
Most traders insist on around 10 trades before they would think about NOT stipulating send first.

It shouldnt be taken as personal insult. Anymore than ummm taxes.

I think this is a reasonable approach. If a trader has less than 5 different trade partners, I usually ask them to send first.

Don't feel odd, qillan. You weren't the only one asked to send simultaneously by this new trader (who does love to spam on other traders' trade threads).

I think you're in the right as well. If someone with only one trade pushed this issue too hard, I'd be suspicious of a scam, even though the person could be the most trustworthy person on the planet.

I have few trades and I still expect to send first for a few more trades at the least.

I think I have also been hit up by this trader...

I'm a believer that if you do not have more then 10 trades WITHIN maxminis you should send first.
Your not out of line..........at all.

I too was made an offer by this trader and i agreed and i asked him to ship first and was told no way i have ALOT of refs all over the net and then cancelled trade i only have 11 completed but if an icon like you asked me to ship first that wouldn't be a problem so no you were not out of line at all

While it's always a good idea to be polite, even in response to unreasonable requests or suspected scam, there's nothing wrong with your position. I'd especially be concerned in your position because virtually every trade is overseas for you, as I recall. By the same token, I can understand how a new trader would be nervous about sending first on an overseas trade, since he's probably never done it before and doesn't know what to expect. (Of course, based on the other responses, that may not be the issue with this particular trader.) I have several times asked new traders to send first, but they've always been amenable to doing so, and I don't even have quite as many trades as you.

Accepted protocol on these trading boards has always been that anyone new to these boards can be expected to be asked to send first until a handful of trades have been completed to the satisfaction of both parties. Anyone new to these boards who insists otherwise comes off as suspect based on this standard.

....cough.....varez?....cough....

As someone with very few trades done I take a little offense with saying a limited trade history is all bad.

That said, I do believe you should be cautions around traders with poor manners. If the trade is in their favor they should be happy to send first as well.

I as a moderator have pointed this trader out more than once. Trust me I've been on his butt the entire time

Funny, there's a new trader on the WotC forums pulling the same stunt with people...I wonder if it's the same dude. Actually, there's been two traders there in the last month demanding that people send first when they have 0 trades. People actually sent first to one of them and he turned out to be a thief! So you have every right to demand that he sends first.

When I was new to trading I actually told people I wasn't going to send first. I wasn't rude about it, but being new, I was very hesitant to trade with people because I'm not a trusting person. I figured if they wanted my minis bad enough they would have to trust me instead. Once I was pointed out to the rules that suggest traders with fewer than 5 trades should expect to send first, I realized I needed to suck it up. So I only traded with people that had a lot of trades until I no longer had to send first. After I was an experienced trader and learned how often people rip others off, I understood completely why people wanted me to send first.

He/she should be expecting to send first until they have built up a reference. I had my days of sending first and still do with some trades.

No, you're not out of line. Stick to your guns and don't give in. That's one way scams happen.

Heck, I still ask people with 10 or 20 trades to trade first. If I don't know someone, and there's anything at all significant going out into the vast emptiness of that funny world we call trust in trading, I ask for them to ship first. Fortunately, I have roughly enough of everything that I can pretty much decline any trade offer (or have it rejected in a huff) and not worry about it.

I could see this being a problem for some people (really, really wanting certain pieces and so maybe trusting a trader that they're really not so sure about), but it's nothing for me to reject a trade.

Dave

You are well within your rights, my friend. Trust is earned through a good track record. Stick to your guns. No send first, no deal.

JIM
aka kyrin

Sounds fishy indeed,

I myself have never traded online, but if I were to do so, I wouldn't expect an established member of the community to send first. The dude needs to learn some manners indeed.

D.

PS. Kyrin, whats up? Need to boost your post count

yack spoke my exact thoughts on the matter. Also, someone that has had disputed trades, no matter their total trades, should agree to send first, if the other party requires it.

So, qillan, you are far from out of line and someone like you should be able to make his own rules. Good luck

What city are they in? Wondering if its Allard or ScottWallas again, trying a new scam.

So it is the same guy huh? I figured...

Twice I had a deal worked out with varez in which he had sent me a proposal.....and twice he decided to cancel the deal because I had asked him to send first......he needs to grow up! Never again!

qillan_dvra, nothing wrong with your trading practices. Make the new guy send first, or tell him to trade with the locals.

I posted my thoughts on this trader in the traders own trade reference thread.  Look for it a nice collection of links.

Seems a clear cut case of newbie sends first. It's all about building a reputation and trust. The trading rules exist because some people in the past took advantage of the trust of others. That said, we can also specify personal trading requirements.

Personally, I always send immediately after locking in a deal, and I let the other party know I've sent my end. I don't even bother to inform the other party what I expect from them as far as who sends first, or when. Buth then I only trade with people who have established a 'reputation' with me. This could be a new member to this forum, but with whom I've exchanged a bunch of emails. Or it could be someone who has 1000+ plus posts and hundreds of trades.

So far, I've been lucky. I support qillan-dvra 100%. If it doesn't feel right don't trade, or get the other party to send first.