The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
    
 | | 02/05/2006 12:55 PM |
| Whats very interesting to me is alot of the people posting about waning interest seem to be in the RPG only crowd, not all, but a decent chunk.
On the tournament level there has never really been a viable ranged band, even with tiles.
Someone called the GCR/HEBI power creep, no thats correction, the Harbinger earlier archers were the most stupidly costed figures put out at the time. If that pricing plan had been stuck with then the HEBI would have cost 100pts easy.
Is the helmed horror tough? yes. But lets look at whats tough about it, its durable and consistent. It's not hitting for 60 dam a turn, it nickles and dimes you with durability and consistence. The fact that they are available in mass to new players helps them show up alot at the opens, the fact that they are easier to pilot than Chraals helps too. There can be no real judgement of the "power creep" level until Qualifier season. during off season last year people lamented all the time how broken the HEBI was and how nothing could beat those guerilla tactics games, well HEBI certainly didn't rock the qualifiers/nats (and that wasn't even deathknells fault as it didn't make a major showing at them either). | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 2:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Whats very interesting to me is alot of the people posting about waning interest seem to be in the RPG only crowd, not all, but a decent chunk.
I'm a little surprised by this as well. The quality of the sculpts is going way up. We're getting things like Hill Giants, Trolls, Ogres, and Elementals as Large Uncommons. We have tiny, huge, gargantuan and colossal figures on the way. We're finally getting really interesting terrain maps for RPG encounters. IMO things are really improving on the RPG side of the hobby.
Now if we could just get a few DL minis.... | |
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Anaxagoras
Warrior
318 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 2:21 PM |
| I am almsot entirely an RPG'er, but I have never been more excited with the minis. I still get to play a fun game now and then, and I want to start making the tourney scene (I just live in nowhere land)
Harbinger actually forced me out. I was very excited, until I heard the wouldn't release pre-made packs (orc warband, undead hoard, etc.)Still I bought packs, and after a case-and pulling all of about two decent monsters (A Troll and Owlbear) and about five total orcs and such (and only 1, Damnit ONE lizardman) I gave up in rage
Dragoneye came out-I bought a few packs-left in disgust at rarity of dragons
Archfiends-left in UTTER disgust at rarity of Bone Devil and Vrock
then-the glory of Giants of Legend...and Huge figures. Things have just been going uphill from there. Now that there is a thriving internet community, I trade off my rares for the RPG fare I need, we get uncommon Larges, great commons...
And Gargantuan and Colossal figs to boot (this is not an invite to complain about the HRD pricing)
As a DM, It makes no sense to be disappointed with the game now... | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6841 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/05/2006 2:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
quote:
Originally posted by jacksonm
When a few more maps do come out I'm sure there will be some that are more favorable to ranged bands, or at least I hope...
A map favoring ranged bands...
Well they could make a map where one side is a cliff with a windy path up to it (making an S) where there is no cover. Also, the rest of the map could be a swampy open area with no cover and difficult terrain. Then the archers could have a hay day. It wouldn't matter too much who won terrain initiative because it would take about the same amount of time for the non-ranged band to get to the other band either way.
Ok. Then my helmed horrors with flight jump up there quicker and make quick work of them.
Ok so a wall doesn't stop a helmed horror. Oh, well, I thought for a moment I might enjoy DDM again if a map was made like that. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6841 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/05/2006 2:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
Another thing that has lessened my interest in skirmish is that a true ranged band is no longer viable. The maps killed ranged bands. Along with the power creep of 40 pointish beaters.
Ranged bands have never really been viable.
I was quite effective with them for several weeks. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6841 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/05/2006 2:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Whats very interesting to me is alot of the people posting about waning interest seem to be in the RPG only crowd, not all, but a decent chunk.
I'm a little surprised by this as well. The quality of the sculpts is going way up. We're getting things like Hill Giants, Trolls, Ogres, and Elementals as Large Uncommons. We have tiny, huge, gargantuan and colossal figures on the way. We're finally getting really interesting terrain maps for RPG encounters. IMO things are really improving on the RPG side of the hobby.
Now if we could just get a few DL minis....
From an RPG only perspective, I am not displeased with the product line at all. I am still very much interested in collecting for RPG purposes. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 2:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Whats very interesting to me is alot of the people posting about waning interest seem to be in the RPG only crowd, not all, but a decent chunk.
I'm a little surprised by this as well. The quality of the sculpts is going way up. We're getting things like Hill Giants, Trolls, Ogres, and Elementals as Large Uncommons. We have tiny, huge, gargantuan and colossal figures on the way. We're finally getting really interesting terrain maps for RPG encounters. IMO things are really improving on the RPG side of the hobby.
You are right. However I can see why some RPGers might have a waning interest : when you have been collecting since harbinger and have thousands of minis, how many new ones do you REALLY need ? Of course there are still iconic monsters that have not been made, but you can proxy many of them. I can understand some people reach the point where they are not interested in the whole set anymore, but only buy/trade the few new minis they really want. Do these people really need new orcs or dwarves ? Even with a better sculpt ?
quote:
Now if we could just get a few DL minis....
Yes !! Give me sivak, bozak and aurak. I bet you're pretty happy to get WotDQ soon [)] | |
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wildger
Sneak
67 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 2:41 PM |
| I disagree with some of the comments here, not directed to any one person. Yes, in a way, you can consider a power creep with newer sets. However, what do you expect the new comers can do? There is no set retirement. Please do not argue for it. Both Mage Knight and Mechwarrior have demonstrated that set rotation is not helpig new players at all. The old sets are out of print. So, for those who complains of power creep, you are telling us that you dont want new pieces more powerful than the ones you already have. Why? So that you can slaughter the new players?
The game has changed quite a bit, from 100 to 200, 12 figures to 8, tiles to map, etc. Some figures are not so useful anymore and other are made more worthwhile. IMO, this game is getting better and is moving in the right direction and it has renewed my interest. You may argue that you cannot or do not want to keep up with the new changes. Look at it this way:
1. Wotc has to make money. If your tier 1 warbands from oop sets remain dominate, you dont need to buy newer sets and other new players cannot compete with you. Bad for the company.
2. Despite all these changes. This game remains simple in comparison to MK, MW and WH.
3. Some people will eventually lose interest with this game. This has something to do with your personal experience but not with this game.
4. DDM shares a background with D&D roleplaying but they are completely different. If you dont like the competitive nature of DDM, no one forces you to play and you dont need to give a comment on a game you dont really know. | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 2:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PaSquall
You are right. However I can see why some RPGers might have a waning interest : when you have been collecting since harbinger and have thousands of minis, how many new ones do you REALLY need ? Of course there are still iconic monsters that have not been made, but you can proxy many of them. I can understand some people reach the point where they are not interested in the whole set anymore, but only buy/trade the few new minis they really want. Do these people really need new orcs or dwarves ? Even with a better sculpt ?
I completely understand what you're saying. The key is to start adjusting your buying strategy with a longer term perspective. Here's what I suggest doing:
Buy some of each set and get some interesting new minis (Night Hag, Chimera, Dragonee, Hill Giants, Girralon, etc.). Don't over do it. I used to buy 3+ cases per set, now I buy 2. Eventually I'll tone it down to 1 case + a few singles to complete the set.
Trade away some of the older duplicates (I'll bet a lot of people would be thrilled to see some Orc Warriors and Hill Giants hit the market), but keep a few. You may even make enough selling 3 or 4 Archfiends hill giants to afford a discounted case online.
You now have more diverse monster encounters for RPG, more options for PCs to proxy their characters, more bad guys for your encounters.
quote:
quote:
Now if we could just get a few DL minis....
Yes !! Give me sivak, bozak and aurak. I bet you're pretty happy to get WotDQ soon [)]
You bet I am! I still think the Draconians are a long shot, but you never know. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 02/05/2006 2:49 PM |
| | Why don't we split the power creep discussion off into another thread ... I hate those threads that are split between two solid subjects ... it makes me and me feel schizophrenic. | |
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 3:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
Another thing that has lessened my interest in skirmish is that a true ranged band is no longer viable. The maps killed ranged bands. Along with the power creep of 40 pointish beaters.
I think it was the start of ranged bands the started the knife in my back. If just is not a fun game when in the second round your speed 4 guys get mowed down because of them ranged bands that everyone was playing. lop sidded games (you had to play this faction to win) were the start of the problem for me. | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 3:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
I completely understand what you're saying. The key is to start adjusting your buying strategy with a longer term perspective. Here's what I suggest doing:
Buy some of each set and get some interesting new minis (Night Hag, Chimera, Dragonee, Hill Giants, Girralon, etc.). Don't over do it. I used to buy 3+ cases per set, now I buy 2. Eventually I'll tone it down to 1 case + a few singles to complete the set.
Trade away some of the older duplicates (I'll bet a lot of people would be thrilled to see some Orc Warriors and Hill Giants hit the market), but keep a few. You may even make enough selling 3 or 4 Archfiends hill giants to afford a discounted case online.
You now have more diverse monster encounters for RPG, more options for PCs to proxy their characters, more bad guys for your encounters.
Sounds like a good strategy. On a very long-term basis, I think you still need to buy 2 cases of each new set to get new trade fodder (unless you have an endless supply of the firsts sets rares [:D])
quote:
You bet I am! I still think the Draconians are a long shot, but you never know.
Hey! be optimistic !!! In Dragoneye, we had 2 of them. If they don't appear in WotDQ, when will they do ? | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6841 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/05/2006 3:19 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by spikegif
quote:
Originally posted by Corim Danex
Another thing that has lessened my interest in skirmish is that a true ranged band is no longer viable. The maps killed ranged bands. Along with the power creep of 40 pointish beaters.
I think it was the start of ranged bands the started the knife in my back. If just is not a fun game when in the second round your speed 4 guys get mowed down because of them ranged bands that everyone was playing. lop sidded games (you had to play this faction to win) were the start of the problem for me.
Sorry about that. I can see how that was frustrating. I think LE is now lopsided as a favorable faction. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 3:21 PM |
| Breathing the breath of life into this game (DDM) and trying to bring it back from brink of death has pushed me to almost giving up on it (DDM only). The rpg'er in me cannot stop. After our local qualifer (constructed) I lost the desire to play. I hopped that attending the ID qualifier would get me that last boost to keep going. It was not until the Limited qualifier that I received my second wind in this game. It then died at the Limited qualifier while waiting for on opponite to show up (8.5 min late and 1 min 30 sec to an auto win)
Just the wait for him to show at such an important match gave me such a sickening feeling. During that match my desire of play collapsed. It has not been reinflated yet. The monthly repaints are the only thing keeping me going, and our local store missed 3 months. [:(] | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 4:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
I have considered quitting a couple of times. The first was inbetween GoL and Aberrations. I lost all interest in minis and even tried to cancel my AB preorder, but it had already shipped.
The other time was when I was horribly disappointed with Underdark and the fact that it wasn't all that much of an "Underdark" themed set.
However, with War Drums and the large amount of useful RPG figs I've seen so far? I'm back in. At least for awhile.
One day though, I will quit and quit for good. it's only a matter of time.
Heh. We've had a similar conversation to this before, Ghendar. I was almost "there" after Aberrations (but not GoL). Then, I really almost quit after DK. However, that's when I decided to forget purchasing cases. I was getting too disappointed over what I would get in a case. When 1/4 of the one DK case revealed the minis I wanted least, I almost quit on the spot.
However, I still endure. Maybe not the most exhuberant of DDM collectors, but I haven't given up on the line, yet. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13044 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 02/05/2006 4:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
However, that's when I decided to forget purchasing cases. I was getting too disappointed over what I would get in a case. When 1/4 of the one DK case revealed the minis I wanted least, I almost quit on the spot.
I think that's probably the future for me. The only UD boosters I bought were for tournaments. The rest of the figs I wanted were purchased off ebay. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
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Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
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G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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yack
Commander
3318 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 02/05/2006 5:02 PM |
| I'm joining you guys also on that thought. Ebay and maybe a starter this round for just fun. Don't ddm but I want the maps...plus the box (I kept one from each set.)
I find that I'm getting near my full of player characters and most of them I would want only one now. | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 6:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
quote:
Originally posted by PaSquall
quote:
Now if we could just get a few DL minis....
Yes !! Give me sivak, bozak and aurak. I bet you're pretty happy to get WotDQ soon [)]
You bet I am! I still think the Draconians are a long shot, but you never know.
Don't give up hope, LM! | |
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Daunte
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 6:05 PM |
| if anyone really cares or wants a perspective from someone really new to the game...
I bought my first booster about 3 years ago or so, dont even really remember what set it was from. They looked interested and could always use mini's for RPG. I ended up buying a whole 2 boosters.
Things in OKC are really on and off as far as gaming, so i used them a few times and then couldnt find a regular group to play in for a long time.
About 6 months ago i started up another regular game. Bought a bunch of mini's and then discovered there were more things to do with them then just use as rpg figures. Started looking around, found out more about them, wanted to play, founda c ouple people, started playing. We all liked it so we talked to our FLGS, got regular games going. First officially sanctioned game is this weekend.
Been playing every other weekend since november, dont plan on quitting any time soon. In 6 months i have got a collection of around 1300 mini's. Trying to get as many old mini's as i can, hard to come by though.
I bought 4 cases of underdark to have a lot of trade fodder. To date have bought about 7 cases, done a lot of trading, have 2 complete sets and will have two more hopefully with trading from wardrumsa nd also wardrums.
Since i started playing not only has my interest grown immensely but i have gotten a ton of people interested as well.
Old people will get tired and us new people will take over, its the natural way of things.
As far as power creep is concerned, its not power creep, its evolution, and you see it in everything. It happened in Magic, s&$% it even happened in pen and paper DND. Put a 1st or 2nd edition PC up against a 3.5 with prestige classes and see who comes out on top.
As far as wizards being the evil empire here that some people make it out to be, its a business, there here to make money, everything else is secondary. Yes it pays to make customers happy and listen to there concerns, but the point of happy customers is to make money, bottom line.
Power creep is evolution, old players quitting and new players picking up the torch is evolution, its the way of the world.. | |
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 10:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Whats very interesting to me is alot of the people posting about waning interest seem to be in the RPG only crowd, not all, but a decent chunk.
I'm in the 'not all' crowd, I am almost exclusively an RPGer and I love the sets. I like the monsters the PC and NPC clases the different races they just make gaming that much easier and I like collecting them(gotta catch them all).The RPG stat side of the cards makes DMing a whole lot easier and most battle run faster.
Even if I gave up collecting the sets I wouldn't sell them jsut because I know somewhere down the line I could get interested again or join up with another gaming group and need my preciouses.
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 02/05/2006 11:03 PM |
| Well, having 2000+ minis has definitely damped my enthusiasm for the line. Also, I just can't seem to get into skirmish -- my die rolls are almost supernaturally lousy, and I don't have the time to devote to the intricacies of warband-building. I'm pretty sure I have all the orcs, goblins, and crested felldrakes I'll ever need.
Wardrums holds my interest with the uncommon hill giant and chimera and night hag, but I'll need another exciting preview or two to puish into a case. Otherwise, it's a few boosters + eBay for me. Not because I don't like the minis -- I'm just about to saturation. As someone said earlier, it's a natural progression.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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brazenwood
Sergeant
386 Posts
Etowah NC
| | 02/05/2006 11:21 PM |
| I got into the game back in the beginning, mainly for RPG purposes. I never even thought about actually playing the minatures game until I played with the Star Wars Rebel Storm set...thought it was kinda cool. It wasn 't until Underdark, after collecting every single set, that I actually played skirmish. I liked it so much that I went to a prerelease tourney in Charlotte, and drew a Roper and a Dwarf Ancestor. My Roper started as a wandering monster on the enemies front doorstep tile, and roped a lot of guys, that is until his Balor flew over and kicked my arse...
Still play for RPG mostly though. Today in my D&D campaign a Roper with cleric levels jumped off a cliff to save his grimlock devotees. It was cool. Mainly I had him leap off the 30 foot cliff because I wanted to get him right in the thick of the battle quick so I could go watch the Superbowl on my birthday today.
As for War Drums, I'll be buying the usual two cases from my FLGS. I'm a bit perplexed by the rules changes related to the theme. You'd think that if they are going for cool battle maps and war campaigns like in Hero's of Battle, they'd want more than 8 figures on the field! 8 figures means 8 or less power pieces, and less cannon fodder strategy. I guess it will make for a quicker game and all, but I liked having lots of variety.
Anyway, I understand the people who quit. My collection is getting burdensome, with so many figures on some shelves that you can't see what's really there anymore, just piles and piles and piles...the paint jobs have improved drastically...and I guess since I just purchased a new tall and wide cd shelf for my game room, I'm gearin' up for the next set. It's like having a baby these days when a new set comes out. You gotta prep the game room with a new crib for em... | |
Kelly Lee Phipps
Visit my New Fantasy World Website: www.astrofantasy.com
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 02/06/2006 1:02 AM |
| There was a point a few months ago where I was discouraged about the future of the game. But now I am excited again. WoTC has listened to its customers and made the DDM skirmish game better. They have balanced the factions and made them ALL competitive. The newer sets don't trump the older ones. There is NO power creep. CE was dominate before but now it is not. CE can still win tournaments and nearly did again at Gen Con. There is NO power creep in general. There may be on a piece by piece basis. Just look at the two Large Earth Elementals or the Lion Falcon Monk compared to the Githzerai Monk. But IMO those older pieces were so horribly bad that they never got played back then either. My older pieces that were playable back then are still playable.
I think the biggest concern has not been mentioned. The cost of the game. The quality of the pieces is getting better. The playability and balance of the pieces is getting better. The biggest problem is that the cost of rares is too high. People now have collections of thousands of minis that are mostly unused for skirmish and redundant for RPG. They are saturated. The game is still great and the product is still good. But they need something fresh to justify the expenditure of more money.
Another thing: If there were no rarity levels then all the pieces would be equally attainable and new players could compete without spending a lot of money. I think people would be happier if WoTC would sell the whole set of 60 minis for $100 or something. No rarity levels. Making the set a collectable thing ultimately is counter productive to the growth of the skirmish game. They should release them like baseball cards. Each pack has 8 figures with an equal chance of getting any figure. The whole set should be available direct from WoTC. The skirmish game would be better and people could get their sets without spending so much money. | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6841 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/06/2006 1:11 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Another thing: If there were no rarity levels then all the pieces would be equally attainable and new players could compete without spending a lot of money. I think people would be happier if WoTC would sell the whole set of 60 minis for $100 or something. No rarity levels. Making the set a collectable thing ultimately is counter productive to the growth of the skirmish game. They should release them like baseball cards. Each pack has 8 figures with an equal chance of getting any figure. The whole set should be available direct from WoTC. The skirmish game would be better and people could get their sets without spending so much money.
I think the rarity scheme, generally, is a good thing. It helps RPGers get multiples of certain pieces. It's just a matter of WotC choosing well which pieces should be rare or uncommon or common. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1540 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 02/06/2006 3:34 AM |
| I'm not so sure that I agree about power creep - my warband in the UK Cup was focused on UD - 6 of the 8 figures were + a dark moon monk and the Rakshasa. However, the warband that beat mine only had one UD piece in it - Rikka.
In discussions with various people, at the 'Cup, and online or at the FLGS, the warbands that are coming may include a surprising number of old, and forgotten, minis that suddenly can be tier 1 again. The balance calculation is starting to turn in some areas, making some minis quite competitive, whereas they didn't used to be. For instance (no minis mentioned) - a mini with a high to hit roll, medium damage, and/or good Area of effect ability that previously was made unviable in tier 1 due to other, dominating, figures that could deal a huge amount of damage and outlast it, might now be in fashion again due to UD where the auto damage can help soften the targets, where speed might suffice to limit impact of the slower UD hitters (Speed 6 for both HH and Duergar Champs).
Since I have been custodian of Bifur's warband generator for a couple of set now I can say, for certain, that each new set brings much more complexity with a bunch of newer special abilities that both bolster and weaken previous minis. Each set is also much more difficult to and time consuming to enter - a reflection of the underlying trend. To me, that makes sense - keep old minis viable while making new minis just as interesting.
Personally, if the introduce set rotation, or so obviously make older minis unviable altogether, I'll drop out. But, I don't see the scope creep argument - next time round other older minis might be seen in action to counter the HHs and Duergar Champs or whatever WD brings. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13044 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 02/06/2006 6:39 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
I think the biggest concern has not been mentioned. The cost of the game.
If the booster price goes up to $14.99, that might be the end for me. Once that happens (and it will eventually), I'll just hit ebay for the individual pieces I want and say sayonara to case and booster buying. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 6:50 AM |
| A game like this has a life cycle. Is this the beginning of the end of the life cycle, maybe but unlikly. I am collecting for RPG use and if the game dies in a year or two or five that is fine. I will still have the minis for RPG.
I am buying more Wardrums than any previous set(3 cases). That said I will start slowing down with WOTDQ (1 case + boosters) and likly be down to singles & booster 2-3 sets after that. This is not a lack of interest,but like others have said I am getting to the point of not needing any more. My current mini count is 1,834. | |
Yes I am Gelatinous.
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 02/06/2006 7:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by wildger
So, for those who complains of power creep, you are telling us that you dont want new pieces more powerful than the ones you already have. Why? So that you can slaughter the new players?
What we want to see is the new figures correctly balenced against the best of the older figures. So that the diversity of the metagame steadily expands with each set.
What we are currently seeing is each new set just unbalences the metagame in favour of a new faction, I have read WotC previews commenting about "their day in the sun" for the next top faction. I don't want any faction to have a day in the sun, since that just puts the other factions in the shade.[:p] | | | |
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yack
Commander
3318 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 02/06/2006 7:30 AM |
| | Even if I did get out of the game .. been here since Harb. I wouldn't sell my figures. I use them for RPG only, I'm cutting back cause some figures I already have a ton of . Such as elves,dwarves and humans. But I will but singles of theses just for the different sculpt. But it will come down where I just have enough or alittle too much later in time. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 7:44 AM |
| quote:
A game like this has a life cycle
Does it? Might it? Does it have to?!
A game like what exactly? I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'd be curious to hear more. Magic is alive and well, 13 years after release. I'd take 13 years of DDM...
But MageKnight is not after, what 6 years? That said, from all I can see WizKids didn't help themselves out with all the LE's that were pretty much mandatory to have in your band to be competitive...
What sets DDM apart is that while they are increasingly focusing on the skirmish game, there is an undlying segment that will buy the figures, not caring about Skirmish. That is basically a subsidy that helps the skirmish game keep going. The key is to maintain the right price point with fresh figures that are highly desirable for the RPG.
I don't think we'll see the end of DDM until at least the release of 4.0 (then we'll have DDM 2.0....)
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 02/06/2006 7:55 AM |
| | I haven't even played skirmish since Angelfire and don't RPG much anymore,I'm just collecting for collectings sake and because I love trading and making deals at this point.Plus...you guys rock! | | | |
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 9:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by arcabious
I hate to say it, but the game is no longer fun for me. Don't get me wrong I love the minis. I just hate all the changes to rules that have evolved. The thing that drew me to DDM was the nice simple combat rules, it was fast and fun. I haven't had time to keep up with errata and such and when I go to play at tourneys, I hear "you can't do that, such and such errata..... blah blah blah."
I hate to rant, but I just want a simple D&D combat when I am not playing the D&D 3.5
I hate the power creap that has happened as well, it seems that if you don't buy the latest set, you can hardly compete any more. The silly special abilities have gotten out of control as well. The last straw was that Hard of hearing ability.
I can't keep up with the once simple game gone complex. I am out, as Cartman would say "Scr#w you guys I'm goin home"
That isn't meant for the community, but for WoTC. I will continue to hang around here (mostly off topic) as I love this community. I have had it with DDM, WoTC took a great thing and made it S#*ty.
Sorry for the rant, but I justed needed to steam.
I had a week or so where I was sorta down about DDM too, then I realized that feelings related to stress at work were creeping into my love of gaming and I got over it. Hope you feel better soon, just don't make any rash decision about getting completely out of anything. | | | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 9:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
quote:
A game like this has a life cycle
Does it? Might it? Does it have to?!
A game like what exactly? I'm not saying I disagree with you, but I'd be curious to hear more. Magic is alive and well, 13 years after release. I'd take 13 years of DDM...
But MageKnight is not after, what 6 years? That said, from all I can see WizKids didn't help themselves out with all the LE's that were pretty much mandatory to have in your band to be competitive...
What sets DDM apart is that while they are increasingly focusing on the skirmish game, there is an undlying segment that will buy the figures, not caring about Skirmish. That is basically a subsidy that helps the skirmish game keep going. The key is to maintain the right price point with fresh figures that are highly desirable for the RPG.
I don't think we'll see the end of DDM until at least the release of 4.0 (then we'll have DDM 2.0....)
Pat E
I took his lifestlye thing to mean something that I had posted along time ago, that there is a cycle of players. When a game first starts its often older players with more expendable income, then the old ones drop out and go away, Kids take over and it starts a new. I took the life cycle comment to mean that we are about to hit the second age so to speak. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 9:34 AM |
| So we can say that all games my have a life cycle.
We are now looking at this game in it's early years. DDM has not been around the block that long to see a huge drop in player base. If anything it may see some lose of initial players, but then it will see additions of new players.
One HUGE difference between this game and many other minis games is that is it a perfect tie to the D&D RPG. None of the other games tie this closely to the scale, look, and feel for D&D.
So the game may end for some players, and we will miss them, but new players will join in. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 10:06 AM |
| I just don't know where I am from day to day. Looking back at Underdark and forward to War Drums, I have to assume that some of my general boredom for these sets must come from the fact that I have almost 2000 minis.
Underdark is the longest I've gone without completing a set. I'm only 2 short, and could easily complete it for about $14 or a couple of minor trades. However, I may be slowly shaking the "gotta have them all" mantra. I'll probably eventually get the final two. However, once I do finally manage to shake the collecting bug, I think my buying habits will change dramatically.
On the flipside, I love the way the skirmish game has gone. I'm excited about the new rules, and I'm always interested in incorporating new creatures into the competitive scene. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
Have/Want List
Reference thread
Avatar Thread
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 10:07 AM |
| quote:
I took his lifestlye thing to mean something that I had posted along time ago, that there is a cycle of players. When a game first starts its often older players with more expendable income, then the old ones drop out and go away, Kids take over and it starts a new. I took the life cycle comment to mean that we are about to hit the second age so to speak.
That makes more sense... If we are starting to see a decline in the original players, that means only a ~2 year cycle... that's a bit too short to be healthy, though we may only be seeing a small percentage drop now.
I guess the important part would just be that more new players join the game than old timers leave. The new starter set almost guarantees that in my book!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 10:07 AM |
| Add me to the list of people who are just starting to get back into the swing of things.
I went from getting only boosters...and a LOT of boosters that is, to buying 2 cases. And I couldnt be happier.
Course as we all know Im a collector first, RPGer second, and a skirmisher a waaaaay distant third. And when I collect I tend to go full boar trying to get the whole set. It's been that way since Ninja Turtles in the 80's (have all of them except the dumber ones that they started comeing out with at the end), and has continued through to Marvel Overpower card game, and Magic (when I played it for about a year) Now DDM is my new addiction that I must collect, and will go 'til Lord knows when!
2006 will be a good year for DDM, just you wait and see! | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 02/06/2006 10:20 AM |
| | Ebb and flow of the games. For me Dungeons and Dragon RPG lost its appeal in 1984. Then in 2003 my boys found my old books and hand drawn dungeons and asked for me to teach them. They hated it. Video killed the imagination. Then two years later we bought a couple of minis for use with Monoploy (got tired of being a top hat and wanted to be an orc - imagine what you can do to a hotel with an axe[}:)]) and then we jumped into skirmish. Now one has progressed into RPG at 3.5 (what no THACO [:0]) and so the cycle goes forward. Sorry to see you go but you will always be welcome back. I was.[:)] | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 02/06/2006 10:26 AM |
| I´m now in the sennit of my fever for D&DM, even that i lost from harbringer to late deathknell in gaming, but now i´m getting even with everybody [:D]
What i criticize about the game is the constant game ruling changes, that was the reason i quit to Mage Knights (That is a dull system compared to this, for my personal opinion). I hope with Wardrums the changes are not too much to start boring me about the game, i like the way it is now but i know that if changes comes something would change and i could lose some interest (i hope not but i know the outcome) somebody feels this experience? | |
Knight of the Quori
Champion of King Kaius III of Karrnath
 Purple Knight of Venezuela
Venezuelan Site For D&D minis Calabozo Criollo Venezuela
Venezuelan Site for SW minis VeneMinis.com | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
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