serithax
Warrior
342 Posts
    
 | | 04/06/2006 11:40 PM |
| Seeing as how they are posting their "actual mini may differ" clause on previews, I am led to believe that WotC is entrenching themselves for more missed paint steps they were unable to correct before shipping.
That said what are thoughts of what will "differ" in WotDQ. I look at the the AoT and am reminded of another multi headed rare with a black dragon head and wonder if this will be one of those necessitating the disclaimers. | |
Harbinger: 80/80 - Dragoneye: 60/60 - Archfiends: 60/60 - Giants of Legend: 72/72 - Aberrations: 60/60 - Deathknell: 60/60 - Angelfire: 60/60 - Underdark: 60/60 - War Drums: 60/60 - War of the Dragon Queen: 58/60
Rebel Storm: 60/60 - Clone Strike: 60/60 - Revenge of the Sith: 60/60 - Universe: 60/60 | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 04/07/2006 12:12 AM |
| quote:
I am led to believe that WotC is entrenching themselves for more missed paint steps they were unable to correct before shipping.
I sure hope not. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:17 AM |
| | They are posting the disclaimer because we asked for it. I'm not reading into it any further than that. I will give them the benefit of the doubt that the painting issues will be resolved for WotDQ. We'll just see what they look like come game time... | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:23 AM |
|
We didn't ask for a disclaimer. We asked for better paint jobs. The disclaimer is a big middle finger.
With that disclaimer, I don't believe for a second the paint jobs will be better. I had hope before, but not now. (Think about it for a second - why would they need a disclaimer if they did a better job?) I'm convinced they're trenching in because they're not going to get better - and that they're going to get worse.
I hope to be proven wrong - 100% totally off base. But I'm not spending a nickel on the next set or preordering it until I see boosters some boosters opened first, and see if they fixed their process.
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To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
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serithax
Warrior
342 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:36 AM |
| I really hope its not an issue but I get a strong feeling that its not over. If it wasn't noticed until near WD release then it likely to also be after DQ was bagged, boxed, and loaded on the slow boats.
Maybe there were corrections to the paint workshops between sets but I don't recall anything being said to that effect or any announcements that DQ won't have similiar issues with missing steps.
If there was something I missed please, point me in its direction.
I'm not looking for a flame thread or any bashing with this thread. But understand I wouldn't be beating this dead horse if I wasn't being expected to ride it home.
Time WILL tell but I know we all love speculation too... | |
Harbinger: 80/80 - Dragoneye: 60/60 - Archfiends: 60/60 - Giants of Legend: 72/72 - Aberrations: 60/60 - Deathknell: 60/60 - Angelfire: 60/60 - Underdark: 60/60 - War Drums: 60/60 - War of the Dragon Queen: 58/60
Rebel Storm: 60/60 - Clone Strike: 60/60 - Revenge of the Sith: 60/60 - Universe: 60/60 | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 2:08 AM |
| Personally, I've got a feeling that the paint jobs will be better. After all, there are still some very nice paint jobs in War Drums (Bloodghost Berserker!).
Right now, and for the foreseeable future (i.e. until I get a first look at WDQ) I'm chalking this up to an "oops" and to the fact that Dreamblade was draining resources that would otherwise have gone to War Drums. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 04/07/2006 2:30 AM |
| quote:
Dreamblade was draining resources that would otherwise have gone to War Drums.
Do you think that this will affect the overall sales of war drums? Basically this set will have lower sales records than previous sets? | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5087 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/07/2006 3:48 AM |
| If they dropped the heavy black-wash DQ's paintjobs would be infinitely better than War Drums. That excessive black-washing did more damage than the missed paint steps (IMO).
I can already see at least 4-6 paint steps on Tiamat that aren't likely to make it into production. Fortunately (for me) that's one mini that looks like a lot of fun to repaint [:D] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Tgt
Sergeant
574 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 7:25 AM |
| | Lets just hope that Aspect of Tiamat doesnt come with 3 black heads, 1 red and 1 blue... | |
VINDICATED Champion of the Mounted Blackguard
DoD called shot: Phrenic Manticore
They´re taking the Hobbits to Isengard!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1752017962119496176 | |
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stephengroy
Underboss
1408 Posts
Tempe AZ Beeyotch
| | 04/07/2006 11:48 AM |
| Two items:
1). Wizard Tactician in UD looks better than my Aspect of Hextor
2). How many trips to Dairy Queen before I get the free Aspect of Tiamat (Paint Master tm) Edition? | |
Waiting for Chainmail Equivalencies since 2005
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 11:57 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robby
We didn't ask for a disclaimer. We asked for better paint jobs. The disclaimer is a big middle finger.
To be fair, some people asked for a middle finger with their endless whinging and complaints.
To me, though, this is not a driver's salute so much as it as WotC's answer to the "box of money" truism as it applies to paint qaulity. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
If they dropped the heavy black-wash DQ's paintjobs would be infinitely better than War Drums. That excessive black-washing did more damage than the missed paint steps (IMO).
I think the black wash is fine, it adds dimension and serves to unify and tone down the paint, but they need to sop up the worst blobs of it - especially on large, flat areas - before it dries. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
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monster_slayer
Warrior
331 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:48 PM |
| | I think it is simply a CYA statement. They are just putting the kebosh on the whiny babies before they start e-mailing them and overloading their inboxes. | |
Life is like a dogsled team, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.
Champion of the Warforged Juggernaut
Champion of the Purple Worm (Vindicated!) | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
I think it is simply a CYA statement. They are just putting the kebosh on the whiny babies before they start e-mailing them and overloading their inboxes.
Funny. If I said those that were happy with War Drums were a bunch of undiscerning morons incapable of realizing they were being sold crap, I would likely get chastised wholeheartedly. But it apparently okay to call people who were unhappy with an inferior product "whiny babies".
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To the list with you!
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Almalik
Warrior
266 Posts
Vancouver-ish, Canada
| | 04/07/2006 1:06 PM |
| I think that posting once or twice under a couple of different threads to say you are unhappy with some aspect of the latest set (i.e. paint jobs, too many of fill_in_the_blank race/type) is fine, but posting variations on the same statement over and over again isn't necessary. Wizards has heard loud and clear that some people are unhappy with the some of the paint jobs in the last set, and everbody on these boards has heard that some people are unhappy with the paint jobs in the last set.
Wizards hs responded both on these boards and in their articles. If people really feel the need to continue to post about how Wizards screwed up, posting over on the wizards boards is probably a better way to do it. A lot of people are on maxminis to get away from that environment. | |
Champion of Aspect of Juiblex (with Oozemaster) and Aspect of Skurmsh! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12355 Posts
The G Spot
| | 04/07/2006 1:17 PM |
| I really don't give a fig about paint jobs. I was more concerned with several bent stat cards right out of the pack.
However, I wish they wouldn't show us the preview pics using the paint masters. They should use actual "in the booster" minis. That would give us a more accurate idea of what the actual paint jobs are. I remembered being wowed when I saw the Bronze Dragon and then was severely disappointed when that corrosion effect wasn't on the mini.
Having said that, we may be SOL with Drag Queen if they were already painted and bagged when WD was released. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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monster_slayer
Warrior
331 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 1:25 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robby
quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
I think it is simply a CYA statement. They are just putting the kebosh on the whiny babies before they start e-mailing them and overloading their inboxes.
Funny. If I said those that were happy with War Drums were a bunch of undiscerning morons incapable of realizing they were being sold crap, I would likely get chastised wholeheartedly. But it apparently okay to call people who were unhappy with an inferior product "whiny babies".
I am NOT saying that everyone who complained is a whint baby, just those who are never happy, no matter what you give them and there a lot of those, are. I had some problems with the quality of the paint jobs on WD, but I didn't post the same complaint 100 times in 100 different threads. I posted my opinion and moved on. Some people just don't know when to say when. | |
Life is like a dogsled team, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.
Champion of the Warforged Juggernaut
Champion of the Purple Worm (Vindicated!) | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 04/07/2006 2:01 PM |
| I think it just opens the door to more miniatures made in a quicker and less detailed fashion...This disclaimer should have appeared four months ago...
I also have nightmares about the horrors they might do to the AoT. I guess we shall see come july... | |
Please donate BLOOD at http://www.monstersgame.co.uk/ac=vid&vid=11018554
Champion Of Kaz the Minotaur Knight of ALL Draconians. Squire Of ALL Constructs
The number ONE fanatic Of Dread Guards ! I own 66 !!! And the GMR1 !!!
119 completed trades so far...NB called shot: Medusa | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3391 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/07/2006 2:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
quote:
Originally posted by robby
quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
I think it is simply a CYA statement. They are just putting the kebosh on the whiny babies before they start e-mailing them and overloading their inboxes.
Funny. If I said those that were happy with War Drums were a bunch of undiscerning morons incapable of realizing they were being sold crap, I would likely get chastised wholeheartedly. But it apparently okay to call people who were unhappy with an inferior product "whiny babies".
I am NOT saying that everyone who complained is a whint baby, just those who are never happy, no matter what you give them and there a lot of those, are. I had some problems with the quality of the paint jobs on WD, but I didn't post the same complaint 100 times in 100 different threads. I posted my opinion and moved on. Some people just don't know when to say when.
agree, WD wasn't that terrible. The trick is to just ignore the frost dwarf and the lion of talisid. Dragoneye had the Dwarf Barbarian and Small White Dragon, doesn't make it a bad set alltogether.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12355 Posts
The G Spot
| | 04/07/2006 2:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
I am NOT saying that everyone who complained is a whint baby, just those who are never happy, no matter what you give them and there a lot of those, are.
You're right. Some people just like to complain. However, the other side of the fence is those that think WoTC can do no wrong. Neither of those positions is correct or fair. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 2:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Having said that, we may be SOL with Drag Queen if they were already painted and bagged when WD was released.
And that's probably the case [:(]. I just hope that the missing paint steps in WD were because they had to make a bigger number of minis than usual, as WD was a starter set.
Or else we'll have to wait for Bloodwar to fix this.
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 04/08/2006 2:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by realmaster
quote:
Dreamblade was draining resources that would otherwise have gone to War Drums.
Do you think that this will affect the overall sales of war drums? Basically this set will have lower sales records than previous sets?
In the short term, "yes". In the long term, "no". I have very little doubt that War Drums will do as other DDM sets have done and sell out of product in about a years worth of time. Some figs will likely have a higher "availability" than some of the others (compare Frost Dwarf to Bloodghost Berserker), but that seems to happen across all the sets. So it can't be wholly attributed to the distribution of resources.
Of course, right now we're still guessing at Dreamblade's ultimate impact on DDM. So it's really tough to say. If Dreamblade goes ape**** successful, then I could see a large exodus from DDM skirmish and that COULD put sales noticably down for the short/medium term. If Dreamblade flops like a drunken frat-boy into a swimming pool I could be concerned about a general, market-wide backlash against CMGs.
Ultimately, I do not foresee War Drums being the Fallen Empires/Homelands of DDM. It's all just ripples in a pond. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 04/08/2006 2:42 AM |
| quote:
Ultimately, I do not foresee War Drums being the Fallen Empires/Homelands of DDM. It's all just ripples in a pond.
Yea I am with you there. Those two releases were not that good. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12355 Posts
The G Spot
| | 04/08/2006 1:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by realmaster
quote:
Ultimately, I do not foresee War Drums being the Fallen Empires/Homelands of DDM. It's all just ripples in a pond.
Yea I am with you there. Those two releases were not that good.
Perhaps Aberrations is the Fallen Empires/Homelands of DDM. [:D]
I liked Fallen Empires. Homelands was crap though. Not to hyjack the thread but the biggest problem Fallen Empires has was the fact that it was massively and grossly overproduced. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 04/09/2006 1:21 AM |
| If WoDQ is already painted, packed and on the slow boat here by now, then why can't we see the production minis in the previews?
Why was it my luck to just start getting into collecting when both Fallen empires and then Abberations came out? Always one step slow...!!!
Curses on all you who got to buy Harbinger boosters at the corner store! | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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oyvind
Warrior
238 Posts
| | 04/09/2006 8:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robby
quote:
Originally posted by monster_slayer
I think it is simply a CYA statement. They are just putting the kebosh on the whiny babies before they start e-mailing them and overloading their inboxes.
Funny. If I said those that were happy with War Drums were a bunch of undiscerning morons incapable of realizing they were being sold crap, I would likely get chastised wholeheartedly. But it apparently okay to call people who were unhappy with an inferior product "whiny babies".
Even though I don't like any of these terms to be used here, I'd say it's a big difference between calling people "whiny babies" and calling them "undiscerning morons incapable of realizing they were being sold crap". We've all been whiny babies, and some of us keeps that trait longer than others, but the latter is definitely a rude insult and has no place on a site like this. Please see the posting guidelines.
Back on topic: I wholeheartedly agree with the guys asking for pictures of the actual miniatures being sold instead of the paint masters in the previews. I never thought War Drums was worse than the other starter sets (think of the outrageous amount of miniatures being produced compared to the other sets), in fact, the sculpts were way better, but we've come to expect an increase in paint quality as well as has been the case with the non-starter sets. I think that posting the disclaimer is the easy way out, but I have to say that I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt until I see the upcoming set as I think Underdark was awesome! | |
Champion of the Tarrasque
Knight of Kraken | |
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sage_raistlin
Sergeant
377 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 10:10 AM |
| Money is what is going to do the talking, if they see a great drop in sales, then hopefully they'll look at bringing the paint level back up, if sales stay the same, they'll just leave it like it is and pocket the extra money they are saving.
Personally, I get the feeling that the paint will stay the same until the next price increase in the boosters. | |
Hello Boys, I'm Back
Vindicated Champion of the Bat
(not pretty, but it still counts) | |
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Zenako
Commander
3469 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 12:51 PM |
| Speculation is speculation and we can argue back and forth until this summer and never know the story until actual product is seen. We could just as easily start a thread with speculation about the quality of the scupts in the next set or beyond. It will be about as meaningful. Yup WD has some issues (as have every set) and some of those were very obvious. The issue was more about missing the expectations that had been set.
The disclaimer included in the WotC posting was partly in response to complaints here and on other boards, but also to inform that portion of the community that may not partake in this or other forums. Keep in mind that many of the complaints were not specific about techniques used (such as the wash), but more along the broad based generalizations that the painting "&^&^$$". The only answer to that portion of the complaints, is exactly what they posted.
If their response offends anyone that much, just quit buying the product. Vote with your pocketbook. No need to continue complaining that they will not address an issue that they probably feel can never be addressed to the satisfaction of some people.
Not sure much else of value can be added to this thread and it will be locked if things get out of forum standards. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 04/10/2006 1:29 PM |
| The disclaimer:quote:
Keep in Mind: These are Master Paints
Just as a reminder, the images you see in this article and over in the D&D Miniatures Gallery, as well as what gets printed on the side of the box and the checklist poster are all Master Paint miniatures. That is, they're the minis used as the "this is what we'd like the mini to end up looking like" example for the factory to use as a guideline. Occasionally, for various and sundry reasons, paint steps have to be altered, eliminated, or added after the Master Paint stage. So, what ends up in the little plastic bags isn't always what you get to see in these various forms of preview. (That's why the back of the box sports that standard-issue legal disclaimer: "Product contents and colors may vary.")
Also, don't ever forget that there's a whole pile of people here at WotC that want these minis to be as cool as they possibly can because we use them in our D&D games and warbands too. Ich bin ein Fanboy.
Read the disclaimer again, and a fwe things things pop out.
#1: The changes between the Masters and the final product are necessary. They don't want the changes to be there any more than you do, but they have to make those changes to get the product to us at the current cost.
#2: The Masters serve two purposes: a.) set a guideline for the factory people to follow, and b.) provide them the examples they need for advertising.
We want them to shoot for the moon in the master paints to make sure they do as much as possible to make great minis in the factory. We don't want to see them leaving out paint steps in the Masters because they think the factory will have trouble doing them, because if the factory can unexpectedly figure out something to get it done, we'll want to see it done.
They need to use the Masters for the marketing materials because the marketing materials need to be prepared far in advance of the set release, and the only product that have to show at the time are the Masters. Accordingly, if they're going to include pictures of the figures on the sides of boxes, on posters, or in previews, they pretty much have to use these Masters.
#3: They're completely honest about this whole thing.
Accordingly, they're doing everything right. There is no reason to complain. If the 'missing paint steps' make you less inclined to buy the figures - hold off on buying them until you get a chance to see the final product. Complaining now just makes the entire community look bad ... | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 11:19 PM |
| quote:
[i]Originally posted by Ghendar[/]
Perhaps Aberrations is the Fallen Empires/Homelands of DDM.
I liked Fallen Empires. Homelands was crap though. Not to hyjack the thread but the biggest problem Fallen Empires has was the fact that it was massively and grossly overproduced.
Aberrations does look like a likely candidate for "Fallen Empires" status. It's was a long time after WotC announced that GoL was out before Aberrations was declared Out of Stock. Deathknell was just announced as Out of Stock a couple weeks ago.
But, to the main topic, worrying about the WDQ paint jobs now is pointless. They're already packed up and ready to go, and it's very possible that things WEREN'T "fixed" in time. BLOOD WAR will be the real test. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 04/11/2006 4:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Harneloot
If WoDQ is already painted, packed and on the slow boat here by now, then why can't we see the production minis in the previews?
Exactly!! | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
|
Bijan Ajamlou
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 4:51 AM |
| I dont think it is worthy of a big company that is in many ways great to play whit expectation and post examples of their minis thath are better painted than their produkt is. I would like them to post pics of actual booster contents when they preview minis or post unpainted, Then ofcourse they could have a second gallery thay says masterpaonted examples, and those could actually be painted by pros. This would provide us whit 2 things, first: we doesnt get any false expectation, Second: we get inspiration about painting them.
Look at other companies like GW they show how the actual final produkt look like as well as master painted examples... But what what does wizard do, they post minis that arent as good painted as they could be and could easely be mistaken for "the actual boster content" that is for me to try to sell on false expectation. And i dont find the disclaimar to be enought becouse if it is sold in foregin countries like sweden many kids cant read/ understand the full implication of the message and bye that get fooled.
Shame on wizards on this one!!! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12355 Posts
The G Spot
| | 04/11/2006 12:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
#1: The changes between the Masters and the final product are necessary. They don't want the changes to be there any more than you do, but they have to make those changes to get the product to us at the current cost.
I agree that changes are necessary and expected and I think that (at least now) everyone knows that.
However, when they show us that awesome paint master of the Bronze Dragon with the corrosion effect and then the actual mini is missing it, they HAVE to expect that people are going to be upset, disclaimer or no disclaimer. That's just human nature.
If they truly don't want us to complain then they should NOT show us the paint masters but instead show us the actual production minis.
My two electrum pieces. [:p] | |
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Ragecage
Sergeant
362 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 12:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by jgsugden
#1: The changes between the Masters and the final product are necessary. They don't want the changes to be there any more than you do, but they have to make those changes to get the product to us at the current cost.
I agree that changes are necessary and expected and I think that (at least now) everyone knows that.
However, when they show us that awesome paint master of the Bronze Dragon with the corrosion effect and then the actual mini is missing it, they HAVE to expect that people are going to be upset, disclaimer or no disclaimer. That's just human nature.
If they truly don't want us to complain then they should NOT show us the paint masters but instead show us the actual production minis.
My two electrum pieces. [:p]
I look at it like I look at any advertising promotion. If every burger at McD's was as good looking as the pictures, that would rock, but I know that won't realistically happen.Of course a company will dress up their product when they promote it.
Another thing about the master paints is that they allow some of the textural details to be highlighted when they normally wouldn't appear on a production mini. As a repainter, I find this very cool. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 12:46 PM |
| The disclaimer is not about product quality. It’s about truth in advertising.
The only criticism that it addresses was the perception that WotC was trying to dupe people into buying with the poster. That had to be acted on, and they did.
It’s idiotic to claim that making an advertisement truthful is somehow saying f-you to the customer.
If the paint quality is inferior, is below what people think it should be for what they spend, then they’ll stop buying. And we should let WotC know what we think of the paint quality. But that’s a completely different issue from the advertising issue. | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1358 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 1:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
Speculation is speculation and we can argue back and forth until this summer and never know the story until actual product is seen. We could just as easily start a thread with speculation about the quality of the scupts in the next set or beyond. It will be about as meaningful. Yup WD has some issues (as have every set) and some of those were very obvious. The issue was more about missing the expectations that had been set.
The disclaimer included in the WotC posting was partly in response to complaints here and on other boards, but also to inform that portion of the community that may not partake in this or other forums. Keep in mind that many of the complaints were not specific about techniques used (such as the wash), but more along the broad based generalizations that the painting "&^&^$$". The only answer to that portion of the complaints, is exactly what they posted.
If their response offends anyone that much, just quit buying the product. Vote with your pocketbook. No need to continue complaining that they will not address an issue that they probably feel can never be addressed to the satisfaction of some people.
Not sure much else of value can be added to this thread and it will be locked if things get out of forum standards.
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 04/11/2006 1:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
...If they truly don't want us to complain then they should NOT show us the paint masters but instead show us the actual production minis.
My two electrum pieces. [:p]
But how do they photograph something that has not yet been run off the line? We get preview shots in previews, posters and box art WELL before they're running off the system in mass quantities (if I understand the comments we've seen correctly).
Accordingly, it seems that they MUST use the Masters if they use anything at all ... because it is their only available option at the time the promo materials are generated.
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gausse
Sergeant
961 Posts
Wisconsin
| | 04/11/2006 1:19 PM |
| I hear Ford is going to adopt that concept as well. They show a picture of an awesome shiny red mustang with custom white racing stripes. What they actually deliver is a half primer/half lime green. No complaining allowed though....fine print said "may vary".
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 04/11/2006 1:21 PM |
| | If that is so, names would be better than paint masters ten times better than what the customer finally gets... | |
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