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Queen of Lurkers
lurkinglidda
Warrior
231 Posts
    
 | | 04/11/2006 2:43 PM |
| It's time for me to speak up here as the WotC employee responsible for overseeing DDM marketing.
Up until now the only images we've had available for marketing materials (previews, posters, window clings, etc) were those of the paint masters. When the War Drums posters came out we heard your outcry and knew we had to change procedure.
We were already into production of WoDQ at the time but stopped the presses - literally - and had the factory scramble to get final production pieces to us. The possible consequence of this was that the release of product would be delayed. Yup, we took a huge risk of being late with the final product. It was a chance we had to take.
The Art Director and I spent hours pouring over each figure in WoDQ, searching for any with dramatic changes between paint masters and final production pieces. At considerable expense to company resources, and a lot of politicking on my part, we re-shot images of close to a third of the set so that you would see as-close-to final product as possible. Even so, we could not redesign all of our printed materials...you will come across images of the paint masters in a few cases.
At the same time we knew it was time to emphasize the color variation disclaimer. It's nothing different than the disclaimers that all other companies use. As others have mentioned, your hamburger never looks the same as what you see on the billboard. You deserve to know about the differences, and we own up to them. Is the disclaimer CYA? Sure. Is it an omen of decreased quality? No way whatsoever!
So now you know the story. If you need to point a finger at a "bad guy" at WotC I'm the one. I'm also the "good guy" (girl, actually)who scrambles to get the posters to you in the first place. So, get mad at me if you need to, but share the love too. I'm open to constructive criticism and that's why I lurk through the boards.
I give you my cheers and understandably take your jeers,
Lidda | |
Assoc. Brand Mgr
D&D Minis
Wizards of the Coast | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 3:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
...
So now you know the story. If you need to point a finger at a "bad guy" at WotC I'm the one. I'm also the "good guy" (girl, actually)who scrambles to get the posters to you in the first place. So, get mad at me if you need to, but share the love too. I'm open to constructive criticism and that's why I lurk through the boards.
I give you my cheers and understandably take your jeers,
Thanks for the heads-up. It, and your efforts, are appreciated.
One thing I have to disagree withm, though, is that the jeers you take are understandable. While I think that voicing ones displeasure with a product oen finds inferior is fine, and indeed should be encouraged, I do not agree with both the frequency and volume of many of these displays. Some have gone far beyond simply letting the company know that some gamers are dissatisfied into whining and even verbal attacks against both WotC and, in some cases, against the people resonsible for making the game. this, to my mind, is anything but understandable and is totally unnaceptable.
For the record, I didn't have a big issue with Wardrums. Sure it wasn't the best set paint-wise but I have a few faceless Axe Sisters that say it ain't the worst, either. I am certin you've heard the infamous "box of money" line, well I was the one who coined it. It has been my experience that, while many people appreciate your efforts there are some who are never, ever happy. Please don't think they represent the majority.
I'm glad to hear that you have taken teh issues to heart and are working diligently to correct them. I think I speak for most of us when I say that your efforts on behalf of the game and the gamers who play it go above and beyond and a much appreciated.
Thank you.
PS: Since you are the one who is responsible, you don't happen to have a spare Dragoneye poster lying around do you? [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 04/11/2006 3:07 PM |
| | Let me echo Sulaco (say that 10 times fast) in saying thats for your efforts, and in saying that the uproar was excessive and unnecessary. Thanks for all the hard work. | |
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lynchpt
Sergeant
927 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 3:07 PM |
| LurkingLidda,
Thanks for the detailed reply! It's heartening to see that our concerns are taken into consideration.
For what it's worth, I never did understand the complaints about the painting of the Wardrums set. To my untrained eye it looked pretty similar in quality to the last few sets: some hits, some misses, and a lot of basic "pretty good" paints.
Really people, I'm not just saying this to be nice - I really can't see any degradation in set quality as a whole. A few pieces have issues as always. But I'm no expert, just glad that I don't have to paint these myslef anymore.
Pat Lynch | |
Dreamblade Rules Advisor | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 3:08 PM |
| Lidda, thanks for your post.
I must say I am impressed by your reaction to this outcry. It isn't every company that is mature enough to do that. I think the disclaimer is a good idea. I am really, really impressed by your decision to re-shoot some pictures. This is more than I would have expected you to be able to do in this timeframe.
thanks for lurking, and for participating when needed. | |
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Champion of Juiblex | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1358 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 3:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
I think I speak for most of us when I say that your efforts on behalf of the game and the gamers who play it go above and beyond and a much appreciated.
Thank you.
Hear hear! | | | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12354 Posts
The G Spot
| | 04/11/2006 3:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
So now you know the story. If you need to point a finger at a "bad guy" at WotC I'm the one. I'm also the "good guy" (girl, actually)who scrambles to get the posters to you in the first place. So, get mad at me if you need to, but share the love too. I'm open to constructive criticism and that's why I lurk through the boards.
Like the others above, I appreciate the interest that WoTC has taken about our concerns and I for one will not point the accusing finger at anyone.
I am encouraged by the fact that those who have the ability to affect change have apparenly taken measures to fix existing problems.
Thank you for your efforts Lidda.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 3:58 PM |
| | Thanks much for the reply, Lidda! [:)] | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 4:19 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lynchpt
For what it's worth, I never did understand the complaints about the painting of the Wardrums set. To my untrained eye it looked pretty similar in quality to the last few sets: some hits, some misses, and a lot of basic "pretty good" paints.
I'm sure that your indiscriminate eye is considered a highly desirable quality by women who don't like to wear makeup. Or men who do. [)]
I was one who was very displeased with the War Drums paint jobs. And it's the first time I've been disappointed with a set to date. When I compare my War Drums minis to figures in the past few sets, they just don't have the same "wow" factor. (Compare Trog Thug to Trog Barb, or Large Bronze to Large Copper)
It's great to hear about the effort you've gone to on our behalf, Lidda. It's good to know that our concerns are taken seriously, and I appreciate the extra effort that the folks at WotC have gone to in order to improve customer satisfaction. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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realmaster
Underboss
2010 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 04/11/2006 4:29 PM |
| quote:
The possible consequence of this was that the release of product would be delayed. Yup, we took a huge risk of being late with the final product. It was a chance we had to take.
If it means better quality I could wait.[:)] | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 4:36 PM |
| Thanks for the reply Lidda.
Special thanks for writing as if you’re speaking to adults, rather discerning adults at that. Communications from game companies in response to complaints often read like they’re directed at kids (and over aged kids) with no brains, common sense, memory and ability to comprehend reality.
It says a lot that you chose to respond at all, and to not respond that way. | |
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ilarue
Underboss
1259 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 5:00 PM |
| | Lurkinglidda, thanks for your response, and thanks for taking the flack on wanting to make the promo material as close as possible to the actual production minis. While I never cared that much that the paint masters looked better than the minis I actually get, I'm glad to see that WOTC cares enough about us customers to make changes when a large percentage of the fan base wants them. Now if my WotDQ cases are delayed I don’t know how happy I’ll be about the change [:)] | |
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes--Who will gaurd the guards?
Champion of the Commoner Mob Leader | |
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serithax
Warrior
342 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 9:26 PM |
| lurkinglidda
This is more in line with an answer I was originally looking for. I realize that there was likely a great deal of stress involved in making making a decision of what to do and to make it quickly as DQ was likely on its way to being loaded up and shipped. I appreciate the work to update the images to be used and realize the high expense involved with changing packaging and marketing media to reflect the more accurate paint styles.
With that said I do feel more confident that what is/will be shown is true to what we will see for those pieces at release. To take the example of the fast food photography presented earlier, no one expects it to look exactly like the picture but when your hamburger has yellow tomatoes and brown lettuce there is cause for concern. With this announcement I think we can expect red tomatoes and green lettuce again.
Consider me satisfied with your answer as to what has been done in response to WD and in preparation for DQ. I now await the previews and release of DQ.
Thank you for your response | |
Harbinger: 80/80 - Dragoneye: 60/60 - Archfiends: 60/60 - Giants of Legend: 72/72 - Aberrations: 60/60 - Deathknell: 60/60 - Angelfire: 60/60 - Underdark: 60/60 - War Drums: 60/60 - War of the Dragon Queen: 58/60
Rebel Storm: 60/60 - Clone Strike: 60/60 - Revenge of the Sith: 60/60 - Universe: 60/60 | |
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Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 04/11/2006 10:57 PM |
| | Lurking Lidda. Thank you for working hard to address everyones concerns. I will continue to keep buying DDM, I don't see myself stopping anytime soon. Thanks again[:)]. | |
Champion of Halaster Blackcloak
Rage!!!!!!!!!! | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/12/2006 12:41 AM |
| I'll add my thanks to Lidda for the response. I never imagined that such effort would be invested in addressing customer concerns. Wow [:O] Your efforts are more appreciated than you know. Try not to pay too much heed to the likely complaints if DQ is delayed. My voice won't be among them if it happens.
My two cents would be to tell the Chinese factory guys "Bu yong zenme heise de guanxi" (Roughly translated: Don't use so much black wash) [:D]
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 2:25 AM |
| Thanks for the concerned and considerate response to our outcry Linae. You're one cool chica!
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
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Bijan Ajamlou
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 7:46 AM |
| | Dont stopp whit the black wash!!! the more the better (easeir to repaint and isnt that glossy so that collor could stick on it) | |
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Dahak
Warrior
202 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 8:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
We re-shot images of close to a third of the set so that you would see as-close-to final product as possible. Even so, we could not redesign all of our printed materials...you will come across images of the paint masters in a few cases.
We already have. The April Previews apparantly. "Keep in Mind: These are Master Paints"
If these had been shots of production figures and noted as such much of this concern would have been avoided.
Even what you've just told us would have gone down better than the disclaimer attached. Because now you've told us that the vast majority of Aspects of Tiamat coming off the production lines looks like that one.
quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
At the same time we knew it was time to emphasize the color variation disclaimer. It's nothing different than the disclaimers that all other companies use.
May is not will. These are not a product that can be examined in advance or returned for lack of quality or failure to match the advertising.
At McDonalds I can complain to the manager to whom the fry chief reports if the Burger is uncoocked.
Can't do that with Frost Dwarves.
quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
Is it an omen of decreased quality? No way whatsoever!
The problem with that is what you are measuring decreased quality against. Wardrums? Deathknell? Harbinger?
Wardrums had definate quality problems [Maps and paint] so this doesn't anwser the fear that it will be the new standard.
War of the Dragon Queen has the added problem of including a Price rise over Giants of Legend with out it appears having solved one of the major complaints about GoL.
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 10:03 AM |
| | Just no pleasing some people. [eyes] I suppose Lidda should come on here next and flash us, while correctly painted Frost Dwarves flow forth from her pores...maybe that would make the people who still feel the need to complain happy...[eyes] | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 04/12/2006 10:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dahak
....At McDonalds I can complain to the manager to whom the fry chief reports if the Burger is uncoocked.
Can't do that with Frost Dwarves...
You wanted your Frost Dwarves cooked? Perhaps you're missing the point of FROST dwarves. Geesh. [)]
With regards to your concerns, which according to the last 20 posts in this thread is actually in the minority, you'll just have to wait for the set to hit. Personally, I hope for WotDQ to be a bit better than WD, but I don't expect to see any significant changes ... and that suits me fine. Had WotC had production line minis for the posters, I (and many others) doubt there would have been many complaints. There would have been a few comments on the blackwash on the HGB, but beyond that, people would have been pretty satisified. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
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Dordledum
Commander
3391 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/12/2006 10:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dahak
quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
Is it an omen of decreased quality? No way whatsoever!
The problem with that is what you are measuring decreased quality against. Wardrums? Deathknell? Harbinger?
Wardrums had definate quality problems [Maps and paint] so this doesn't anwser the fear that it will be the new standard.
if all commons look like Derro, uncommons like the HBG and BGB, and rares look like the AoH, I don't mind using War Drums as a standard for future quality at all!
quote:
Originally posted by Dahak
War of the Dragon Queen has the added problem of including a Price rise over Giants of Legend with out it appears having solved one of the major complaints about GoL.
Biggest complaint of GoL was rares distribution, with a 60-piece set and still retaining the double-rare possibility, I think WotC solved the issue just fine.
I like ot refer to Vash' comment: there is no pleasing some people.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
| Queen of Lurkers
lurkinglidda
Warrior
231 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 10:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
Thanks for the concerned and considerate response to our outcry Linae. You're one cool chica!
Gah! You've used my real name and now I must do your bidding!
The unseelie queen will be most displeased. Most displeased, indeed. | |
Assoc. Brand Mgr
D&D Minis
Wizards of the Coast | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 10:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dordledum
Biggest complaint of GoL was rares distribution, with a 60-piece set and still retaining the double-rare possibility, I think WotC solved the issue just fine.
Biggest complaint of GoL was the Nightwanker. [xx(]
There is no double-rare possibility in WotDQ. You get one rare per box, one huge per box. If the huge is a rare then that is your rare, there is no other. If the huge is uncommon then you get a normal-sized rare in that box. No double-rares. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 04/12/2006 11:07 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
There is no double-rare possibility in WotDQ. You get one rare per box, one huge per box. If the huge is a rare then that is your rare, there is no other. If the huge is uncommon then you get a normal-sized rare in that box. No double-rares.
Not so, big fella - Shoe had this to say on the Die Meepo Die! thread:
quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
quote:
Originally posted by FeranEldritchKnight
Sorry to burst your bubbles, but you forget that there's only 8 minis to a pack this time around- if you get Meepo, you're huge will be an uncommon.
Incorrect.
The Huge slot is independent of your Rare slot. As previously stated in many places, in a booster you will get:
1 Huge mini (either a Huge rare or a Huge Uncommon)
and
1 Rare mini (size Large, Medium, or Meepo)
2 Uncommon minis (size Large, Medium, Small, perhaps even Tiny)
4 Common minis (Medium and Small)
The presence of Meepo does not preclude getting any Huge rare, and thus it is possible to get 2 rares in one booster (a Huge rare like Tiamat and a "normal" rare like Meepo).
-SS
Fighting misinformation with Mister Information!
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Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
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Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
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Deoxy
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 11:07 AM |
| I'd like to jump on the band wagon and say thank you.
I'd also like to say that I, for one, feel that the set wasn't really that bad. I think the main problem was that one particular mini (the frost dwarf) was VERY bad, and a coupl of other high-profil minis (the dragon, for instance) were noticably not as good (which wouldn't have mattered with lower profil minis). The other problems were only brought up because people were frustrated about those 2.
Many of the other figs were painted quite well. The only (minor) complaint I have of the set as a whole is the over-use of the black wash, but that's really only a complaint if that happens in more than one seet - one set like that is actually useful (IMO), as it gives a different look (I use them for RPG, and a "darker" look on some figs is nice). Don't need a repeat of it, though.
While the usage of actual production models for some pictures doesn't hurt, I think the primary things needed to be done (after a good CYA "may differ" disclaimer, which is, unfortunately, legally required these days) would be these:
1. Don't nerf high-profile figs. (Dragons are ALWAYS high profile.) This is not as easy as it sounds, as what is "high-profile" is not always known in advance (except dragons, of course), but well-known uniques (Elminster, etc) would certainly qualify, as would particularly clamoured-for pieces. Just don't set the expectations too high is the main thing.
2. Don't over-nerf any one figure, even a common. It's better to hit several figures with a small nerf than one figure with a big nerf. To put it another way, it would probably be better to eliminate 1 paint step from 4 or even 5 figs than 3 steps from 1 fig.
3. You'v already got this one: be upfront about it. Do the best you can (you've already got that, too), but when the inevitable nerf happens, let people know as soon as you can. Basically, I think working with the paint masters is fine... until you get the "real thing" in hand, which should happen before release. Sometime before release, any figure that was previewed and then nerfed in any major way should be put on a "nerfed" page, so that people know in advance. I think this one thing would have helped with War Drums, as people's expectations would have been lowered BEFORE shelling out the money and finding the "frost dwarf" themselves. I LIKE the paint masters (and I think many othr people do to), and I think just constantly being up front about it ("This is what we hope it will look like - we'll let you know how it turned out.") should really be sufficient (except for the pople who are unsatisfiable, as we've already seen once on this thread, and there's nothing to be done about them, anyway).
Sorry that was so long, and thanks again for being so responsive! I like your product a LOT (as in, I have over 1500 figs) - please keep up the good work. | |
No longer active on MaxMinis | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 11:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Arandae
Not so, big fella - Shoe had this to say on the Die Meepo Die! thread:
This is news to me, and apparently to the folks at WotC who do the product page as they have it listed "Eight (8) randomized miniatures, including one (1) huge figure", not "Nine (9) randomized miniatures, including one (1) huge figure" or "Eight (8) randomized miniatures, plus one (1) huge figure
And a little less of the "big fella" comments, please. Having been head-and-shoulder taller than everyone else my age since I was 3 it is a sore spot with me. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 04/12/2006 11:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
And a little less of the "big fella" comments, please. Having been head-and-shoulder taller than everyone else my age since I was 3 it is a sore spot with me.
Heh. Sorry.[:D]
I have a different problem. All my clothes come sized "S". That's "Small". Let me write that again - "Small". Women are "petite", but men are "Small". What does "Small" say about a man? It's just humiliating. They might as well just tattoo "pathetic" on my forehead and be done with it. [:(!] And my brother is 6'4". Bah. | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Anti-Champion of the Fozzie Bugbear Strangler (Demonweb 32/60).
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 11:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
This is news to me, and apparently to the folks at WotC who do the product page as they have it listed "Eight (8) randomized miniatures, including one (1) huge figure"
The statement you quoted simply says that one of the miniatures will be huge. It says absolutely nothing about the distribution of rare/uncommon minis or their relation to the huge mini.
We've known about 7 normal minis (4C/2U/1R) + 1 huge mini (U or R) for quite a while. So it's still possible to get two rares per booster. Not only that, but the improved distribution should guarantee 9 rares per 6 booster case, as opposed to 15 rares per 12 booster case (as was the case with GoL).
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Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 11:38 AM |
| I just realized I was misreading Shoe's post. The WTFin this case applies solely to me. Please ignore all my rubbish about 9 per box.
Man I need a vacation... | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3391 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/12/2006 11:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
quote:
Originally posted by Arandae
Not so, big fella - Shoe had this to say on the Die Meepo Die! thread:
This is news to me, and apparently to the folks at WotC who do the product page as they have it listed "Eight (8) randomized miniatures, including one (1) huge figure", not "Nine (9) randomized miniatures, including one (1) huge figure" or "Eight (8) randomized miniatures, plus one (1) huge figure
And a little less of the "big fella" comments, please. Having been head-and-shoulder taller than everyone else my age since I was 3 it is a sore spot with me.
as I told you in the other thread, WotDQ boosters will have 1 huge, 1 rare, 2 uncommons, and 4 commons.
1+1+2+4= 8
Old news really,
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 11:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dordledum
as I told you in the other thread, WotDQ boosters will have 1 huge, 1 rare, 2 uncommons, and 4 commons.
1+1+2+4= 8
Old news really,
I know that, which is why it seemed odd that suddenly it was 9 per box, but the error was entirely mine. I had a sudden bout of mathlexia. [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Geddonight
Skirmisher
18 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 12:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Deoxy
I'd like to jump on the band wagon and say thank you.
I'd also like to say that I, for one, feel that the set wasn't really that bad. I think the main problem was that one particular mini (the frost dwarf) was VERY bad, and a coupl of other high-profil minis (the dragon, for instance) were noticably not as good (which wouldn't have mattered with lower profil minis). The other problems were only brought up because people were frustrated about those 2.
1. Don't nerf high-profile figs. (Dragons are ALWAYS high profile.) This is not as easy as it sounds, as what is "high-profile" is not always known in advance (except dragons, of course), but well-known uniques (Elminster, etc) would certainly qualify, as would particularly clamoured-for pieces. Just don't set the expectations too high is the main thing.
2. Don't over-nerf any one figure, even a common. It's better to hit several figures with a small nerf than one figure with a big nerf. To put it another way, it would probably be better to eliminate 1 paint step from 4 or even 5 figs than 3 steps from 1 fig.
[QUOTE=Chrome_Golem]I greatly appreciate WoTC's forwardness with the painting issue in Wardrums, but, in all honesty I have less of an issue with missed steps as much as shoddy work on the steps that were included. [/QUOTE]
This is pretty darn close to hitting the nail on the head with me too. I'm making an assumption that most of us realize the actual minis won't be quite up to the standard of the masters and, more importantly, are pretty much okay with it.
From my perspective, what creates the most dissonance is when a final-product mini looks significantly different from its paint master counterpart. I believe what most of us want is better judgement in what paint steps to delete. We expect our rares to look better than the commons, and the same with the uncommons, though not as noticeably. Therefore, rares should get more paint steps, especially the ones that are going to be widely popular.
I can understand that the Khumat doesn't get a loin cloth paint step... it's not that largely-desired/needed mini for RPG/DDM... but the dragon should have its belly scales (Dragons are always popular). Some of the iconic minis out of the monster manual (Balor, Beholder, Chimera, etc.) shouldn't be that difficult to flag as needing higher quality paint jobs...
Lidda wanted constructive criticism... thar ya go. Also, I want to emphasize the comments of a few others: the actual SCULPTS are getting much much better--that's wonderful!, and the paint jobs overall really aren't that bad... it's just that the past three sets were really pretty dang superb.
Keep it up! | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 04/12/2006 1:32 PM |
| Finally a very honest and thorough explanation, lurkinglidda. I have been one of the most verbal on this issue and thank you for having taken the time to write to us directly after that "slap in the face" disclaimer that left many, myself included, angry and scared. I am happy you value your fanbase this much to have "stopped the presses" and taken a second look at WOTDQ, even though most of us were already sold on that set
before Wardrums. I apologize to you and WotC if any of my posts ( or this one ) were offensive, but I felt wronged. At least now, I know that this was just a one-time issue and already pre-ordered two cases of WOTDQ yesterday [:)]
P.S: You are probably not at the liberty to say, but was that picture of the Aspect Of Tiamat the paint master or the final production result ? Keep up the great work! [:D] | |
Please donate BLOOD at http://www.monstersgame.co.uk/ac=vid&vid=11018554
Champion Of Kaz the Minotaur Knight of ALL Draconians. Squire Of ALL Constructs
The number ONE fanatic Of Dread Guards ! I own 66 !!! And the GMR1 !!!
119 completed trades so far...NB called shot: Medusa | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 1:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
Not only that, but the improved distribution should guarantee 9 rares per 6 booster case, as opposed to 15 rares per 12 booster case (as was the case with GoL).
Actually, I think it will be 8 rares per 6 booster case. IIRC, they changed the huge rare ratio from 1:4 to 1:3, not 1:2. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Deoxy
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 2:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by Sammael
Not only that, but the improved distribution should guarantee 9 rares per 6 booster case, as opposed to 15 rares per 12 booster case (as was the case with GoL).
Actually, I think it will be 8 rares per 6 booster case. IIRC, they changed the huge rare ratio from 1:4 to 1:3, not 1:2.
This is correct. 9 rares out of 6 boosters would mean that "rare" huges and "uncommon" huges would be equally likely... which would mean there was no distinction. Which would be silly.
And I forgot to mention that I completely agree with Geddonight - the sculpts definitely have been getting better. | |
No longer active on MaxMinis | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 04/12/2006 3:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
We were already into production of WoDQ at the time but stopped the presses - literally - and had the factory scramble to get final production pieces to us. The possible consequence of this was that the release of product would be delayed. Yup, we took a huge risk of being late with the final product. It was a chance we had to take.
The Art Director and I spent hours pouring over each figure in WoDQ, searching for any with dramatic changes between paint masters and final production pieces. At considerable expense to company resources, and a lot of politicking on my part, we re-shot images of close to a third of the set so that you would see as-close-to final product as possible. Even so, we could not redesign all of our printed materials...you will come across images of the paint masters in a few cases.
Lidda,
As one of the folks very disappointed with WD and very vocal about it, I have to say that appreciate that you not only listened to your customers, but acted positively on our concerns/complaints. I'm a big fan of the course of action you and your company chose to take regarding the masters (setting the proper expectations for your customers is a huge key to success), and am appreciative of the risks you took doing it.
Moreover, I really appreciate your comments and honesty to us all regarding what y'all are doing. I read this and don't at all feel like its a spin job.
I'm a little more optimistic about WoTDQ now, and certainly won't feel as apprehensive looking at the previews, wondering "yeah, but what is it really going to look like" - and that is most certainly a GOOD thing (I love the previews).
Felagund stated it about as well as I could ever state it:
quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
It's great to hear about the effort you've gone to on our behalf, Lidda. It's good to know that our concerns are taken seriously, and I appreciate the extra effort that the folks at WotC have gone to in order to improve customer satisfaction.
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To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
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Dordledum
Commander
3391 Posts
Netherlands
| | 04/12/2006 4:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
quote:
Originally posted by Arandae
Not so, big fella - Shoe had this to say on the Die Meepo Die! thread:
And a little less of the "big fella" comments, please. Having been head-and-shoulder taller than everyone else my age since I was 3 it is a sore spot with me.
I know the feeling, I was somewhere around 5'12" when I turned 11 years old (ended up being 6'3"). Thank god the rest of my friends started growing as well. You should come to Holland. Scientific research has shown that we got here on average the tallest population in the world with an average for males being 6'2". Kind of figures, considering that I know of five guys over 7 feet in my close circle of friends alone.
D.
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Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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zoroaster100
Sergeant
873 Posts
| | 04/15/2006 11:01 AM |
| | Thanks for your post, lurkinglidda. I too was very pleased to read it. It is what I was hoping to hear from WOTC on this issue, and I now look forward with renewed hope knowing you have expended such effort to address the problem. | |
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