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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
    
The State that invented Spam!
 | | 05/26/2006 12:56 AM |
| Ok,
Crazy Rant In Progess.
This Post is Rated NC-17
I'm sorry, I'm really starting to doubt the WotC Marketing staff. I'm not saying they suck or they aren't doing their job. I'm just saying they're blinder than a football ref.
Hectacomb - Knew it was dead before it started
They are taking away from the DDM Community of Prizes so they can hype up another game which, Quote me here. Will not last as long as Hectacomb.
They are taking away pretty much most of the support for the game.
WotDQ Pre-Release
1st Place = 2 Boosters
2nd Place = 2 Boosters
3/4 Place = 1 Booster
Thats only 1 Case, thats not much prize support for a Pre-Release at all.
Origins, Pulling out of Origins nearly completely?
Taking away a few qualifiers for DDM
Making a bigger tourament for Dreamblade than DDM (Gen Con) $50,000
Winner gets to make a mini, for a game that has been going for 30+ Years
Also Delegates:
Lance H - You have gotten back to me really quickly and very informative on the info to Delegates.
(MN Delegates) WHERE ARE YOU? Mind going to some stores?
I think I just had a bad day and decided to rant in order to vent.
There are many more things I'd love to rant about.
GOOD THINGS
Talafenix - Especially the Guess the Epics Game
LurkingLidda
Ian
They are great people, lurking on this site, posting, communicating with the public. Love you guys. | |
Posted By WakeXX on 09/25/2006 4:49 AM OMG DJ!This has to be the spammiest spam thread ever! 
Member of Team Game-Rocket.netScry into Blood War | My Trade Thread | My Reference Thread| Vindicated Champion of the Dragon Rider & Dracolich | New Champion of Cadderly | | |
|
Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 1:04 AM |
| I have to admit, the whole Dreamblade thing really kinda pisses me off.
Even if that game is a success, which doesn't strike me as likely, where does WotC/Hasbro think the player base will come from? Walk-in? New gamers? No way. The player base will come from DDM and Magic (to the extent it finds an audience at all); they're cannibalizing their own games! | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 1:05 AM |
| Okay, 6 boosters is half a case not a whole one. Oh and Ian and Talafenix are the same person. I think you mean Shoe.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
| |
Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| |
dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 1:40 AM |
| | Shades of Mage Knight, anyone? | |
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
| English Ghost (OP Program Manager)
Talafenix
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 2:35 AM |
| OK sorry to say this but this post hit my funny bone and made me laugh. I know it was wrong to admit it and I apologise immediately but being here and in the 'know' so to speak means I can tell you pretty much all of the perception is as close as my home town is to me now living in Seattle.
Anyway allow me to answer things and maybe you'll see what I mean. DJ... sorry if this sounds bad, I really don't mean it that way it just struck me as funny even though I know you're very serious and hence I want to respond. You deserve knowing.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Ok,
Crazy Rant In Progess.
This Post is Rated NC-17
I'm sorry, I'm really starting to doubt the WotC Marketing staff. I'm not saying they suck or they aren't doing their job. I'm just saying they're blinder than a football ref.
[:0] That's Miss Lidda you're talking about!
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Hectacomb - Knew it was dead before it started
Some come some go. Sadly not all games can be the next D&D or Magic. It's not wrong to try it though and to be honest I liked it.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
They are taking away from the DDM Community of Prizes so they can hype up another game which, Quote me here. Will not last as long as Hectacomb.
They are taking away pretty much most of the support for the game.
WotDQ Pre-Release
1st Place = 2 Boosters
2nd Place = 2 Boosters
3/4 Place = 1 Booster
[?] OK you've confused me here. There is not cut in prizes. Well none I see and since they all come out of my budget (well pretty much) I'm really confused here. There are only 6 boosters to a case for WotDQ as they are a huge set. Also we only ever send out 1 case for prize support for a prerelease. Also the giveaway mini is a huge, which is significantly more expensive than a medium. So you've got me confused.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Thats only 1 Case, thats not much prize support for a Pre-Release at all.
Correct. As it always is.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Origins, Pulling out of Origins nearly completely?
That's a company decision based on many things. DDM wasn't one of them. Also we've a very very healthy schedule for Origins and we're working hard with Brad and his team to arrange a bunch of other things since we won't be there. Then again we're not the only large company to make that decision this year.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Taking away a few qualifiers for DDM
Again I'm looking at this and scratching my head. The original number is exactly the same. Seems I'm a victim of my own generousity here and squeezing in a couple more last year. For that I'm sorry. Last year we gave out, in potential value, less than it is likely to cost us this year for prizes.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Making a bigger tourament for Dreamblade than DDM (Gen Con) $50,000
Winner gets to make a mini, for a game that has been going for 30+ Years
We're giving away 20K for Dreamblade. That doesn't all go to first place though. That is split of a lot of top placings. Also this decision was inpart driven by the surveys that told us the DDM community didn't want big cash prizes.
Also the design your own mini comes with unique playable miniature trophies and other goodies (not including any product) that amounts to a very significant amount of money. In all I'll be spending over half the Dreamblade prize amount for the finals. The disparity isn't as big as you think it's just done in a different way. A way you guys have indicated was more important including a recent online pole at the Wizards site that had thousands of individuals respond to.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Also Delegates:
Lance H - You have gotten back to me really quickly and very informative on the info to Delegates.
Cryptic... no idea what that's about but I put a stop on DDM Kit promotions as I cant make any more right now as I have a 6 to 9 month lead time on spinning miniatures (spinning is our term for manufacturing). They became so popular we sell out each month even when I put a temp max on them to get a true idea how many we would sell. Needless to say that wasn't popular but I expained that here before and for that I again apologise but it was necessary to have a true idea.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
(MN Delegates) WHERE ARE YOU? Mind going to some stores?
Good question. Do I sense a willing victim... ummmm volunteer?
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
I think I just had a bad day and decided to rant in order to vent.
There are many more things I'd love to rant about.
You can always rant at me. I rarely ever take offense and I'm happy to answer any and all questions.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
GOOD THINGS
Talafenix - Especially the Guess the Epics Game
LurkingLidda
Ian
WOOT I made the list twice... since Shoe didn't does that mean I'm twice as good as Shoe? [:D]
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
They are great people, lurking on this site, posting, communicating with the public. Love you guys.
Bah we're not, we're just as enthusiastic about the game as you guys. But I won't remind R&D that their last representitive in the internal league just got beaten by yours truly and we're down to the final 3 with two from OP and 1 from accounts. Darn I just did but that's another thread [:D]
We all play, we all care and it's not as you think. There's as much passion and ranting here at times, than is ever seen on these boards. Our bosses listen and we get a lot of leverage to offer up things we think are cool and you'd like or have asked for.
Anyway we're always listening. I had a post created from Winter Fantasy asking what you guys would like for prizes etc and also we run regular surveys. We've been pretty true to that information from you, our fans.
Take care for now and DJ... thanks for posting. Gives me a chance to help dismiss some of the doom and gloom that is perceived.
Ian | |
Ian Richards
RPGA Program Manager
Program Manager for D&D, Star Wars and Axis & Allies Miniatures.
Organized Play
Wizards of the Coast | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5132 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 05/26/2006 2:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
WOOT I made the list twice... since Shoe didn't does that mean I'm twice as good as Shoe? [:D]
It could mean your cryptic hints are twice as easy to decipher [:D]
quote:
Bah we're not, we're just as enthusiastic about the game as you guys. But I won't remind R&D that their last representitive in the internal league just got beaten by yours truly and we're down to the final 3 with two from OP and 1 from accounts.
Go accounting! [^][:D]
quote:
Take care for now and DJ... thanks for posting. Gives me a chance to help dismiss some of the doom and gloom that is perceived.
Ian
Only thing that's doomed is the future of the lowly gnome [:(] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12503 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/26/2006 2:44 AM |
| I remember a prominent, and very good DDM player saying that he would switch his efforts to Dreamblade for the time being just because of the huge prize support. We skirmishers certainly do not need to hear news like this, but I cannot blame this guy. Money talks.
Anyway, I already know Dreamblade is toast if Vancouver is any indication of market sampling. Our 10-15 regulars who show up to the DDM DCI events every week have no interest whatsoever in Dreamblade. Our Wizards rep won't even try getting any of us into it.
Hopefully, in the future, they focus more of their efforts where their customers are spending their hard-earned money. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/26/2006 2:52 AM |
| | I for one have decided not to judge dreamblade until it is in my hands. I think that it will draw some DDM and magic players, but not many. I think it is an attempt to draw away from the clix based games. It looks a bit simpler, easier to play. I think it would make a good Gate way game, to ramp up to a more complex game (competitive Magic or DDM) | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6842 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/26/2006 2:55 AM |
| Talafenix, thanks for the depth in which you responded. It was nice to hear all that.
I am thinking that it is possible that the survey about prize support for DDM would have yielded different results if something like this were asked:
We're going to be releasing a new game soon. How would you feel if the prizes for DDM stayed the same, while we give out big dollar prizes for the new game?
I think that the frustration is that so much money is going behind a new game when there is hope that the kind of money spent on that new game in some people's minds could have been put behind DDM to help the game grow more.
I am not trying to speak for a large community with these comments--just what I think one reason is behind the frustration that some are expressing. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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PrometheusEnslaved
Sneak
78 Posts
Central Florida
| | 05/26/2006 3:01 AM |
| I can appreciate Hasbro/WotC wanting to cover all their bases, trying to cover as many consumers as possible, wanting to offer something for everyone, like some weird global domination of miniatures marketing. However, I think they're ultimately shooting themselves in the foot here, because - and this is just a guess - I imagine there's a LOT of cross-buying going on.
DDM came first. (Not counting Chainmail.) It was a huge success. Star Wars Minis seemed like a natural follow-up, and I think it's equally successful, but a lot of the people who buy those minis are also buying DDM, they started with DDM. Sure, there are non-D&D fans who love Star Wars and add to the sales, but I think the heart of the supporters are (or were) DDM consumers first. And a lot of them have had to draw the line somewhere, choosing one over the other because most of us can't reasonably afford both. Same with Axis & Allies Miniatures. Yes, there are wargamers out there that love the historical angle rather than the fantasy realm of D&D. But, again, I'm betting there's a large percentage of supporters that similarly started with DDM, possibly even try to juggle the two. Dreamblade will likely run into the same wall. And it's really reaching a breaking point.
I've tried to collect all three, starting with DDM, rabidly supporting SWM, and trying to pick up some AAM when I could. I'm a diehard D&D player, but I also like Star Wars and get a real kick out of what they're doing with the minis - when they get them right, anyway - so I've been trying to balance the two. And I really like tabletop games, and have some history buff friends that were into the whole Conflict/Command and Conquer/Axis & Allies/Risk sort of games, so AAM works for those players who don't really get into DDM or SWM. And then there's Heroscape - a more basic, simplified minis game that doesn't stick to any particular mythology or background. But the sad reality is, there's just so many options available - and not just from WotC/Hasbro - that we now have gamers stretched out all over the spectrum, and as players pick and choose where they draw the line, sticking to their specific games and dropping others because they just can't afford them all...we're bound to see some seriously divided support, which means some of these games are naturally going to fail as support wanes, as fewer consumers play certain games thereby making it harder for the staunch supporters to find people they can play with and thus abandon the game in turn.
I'd really hate to see DDM or SWM come to an end because of Dreamblade. It doesn't seem likely, because I don't think Dreamblade has the same built-in fanbase to make it an instant success, but with the huge prize pool being amassed for tournaments...that's going to be a major incentive to a lot of people, especially if they start pulling prize support from DDM tournaments. I, personally, don't care about tournaments. I've never taken part in one and probably won't in the future. I'm just not that competitive and I have a group of local players, so I don't need to go out of my way to find games. But I think a lot of players - especially newcomers - might see or hear about the potential prizes for Dreamblade and start throwing their support there. As such, instead of getting new blood into DDM, they might get sucked into Dreamblade being it's the hip, new thing with a potential payoff that the other games don't offer, and little by little DDM and SWM dwindle in player and tournament support until it's just Dreamblade.
I just don't understand why they can't be happy with the successes they already have and just focus on supporting them, pumping that extra money into them. And you can't blame people for getting riled up, especially given the faltering production quality of War Drums, with some potential residue of shoddiness showing up in WotDQ. You have to wonder if WotC has given up on them, leaving them to fend | |
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12503 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/26/2006 3:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
We're giving away 20K for Dreamblade. That doesn't all go to first place though. That is split of a lot of top placings. Also this decision was inpart driven by the surveys that told us the DDM community didn't want big cash prizes.
When a professional athlete says he does what he does for the love of the game, I'm not one of the cynics who says "BS". I believe that the best excel at their craft because they enjoy what they do. I play DDM because I enjoy the game very much. Now, if I were among the elite players, would I accept a big cheque for winning at GenCon? Yes. I still believe that any money spent on Dreamblade would have been better spent on DDM. Not because I prefer DDM over Dreamblade, but because DDM, like Magic and the D&D RPG, deserves it. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 3:35 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
GOOD THINGS
Talafenix - Especially the Guess the Epics Game
LurkingLidda
Ian
WOOT I made the list twice... since Shoe didn't does that mean I'm twice as good as Shoe? [:D]
[/quote]
mathematically, you are infinately better than shoe...
thanks for the responses though. | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
| | 05/26/2006 4:23 AM |
| Thank you Tala for all your insight! I really appreciate you taking my rant and anger in a humorous way. I'm glad you answered most, if not all of my rants and raves. That makes you Doubly Good in my BOOK!
(Also MN Delegate) Mind getting me a HIT lis....I mean list of these people and if there is a seat open mind letting me know. I frequent many stores in the MN area and would love to help demo the Hasbro/WotC Games to many unsuspecting victims... I mean customers. | |
Posted By WakeXX on 09/25/2006 4:49 AM OMG DJ!This has to be the spammiest spam thread ever!
Member of Team Game-Rocket.netScry into Blood War | My Trade Thread | My Reference Thread| Vindicated Champion of the Dragon Rider & Dracolich | New Champion of Cadderly | | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/26/2006 7:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wayne
Even if that game is a success, which doesn't strike me as likely, where does WotC/Hasbro think the player base will come from? Walk-in? New gamers? No way. The player base will come from DDM and Magic (to the extent it finds an audience at all); they're cannibalizing their own games!
I believe this is right on the money. Dreamblade will only hurt DDM because it will pull players away from the game.
I don't really see the die hard Magic players jumping to Dreamblade, but it's possible.
However, having said that, they may pull in the disenfranchised Mage Knight fans that bailed on that game. Maybe they are hoping Dreamblade will fill that hole. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 7:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
(MN Delegates) WHERE ARE YOU? Mind going to some stores?
(PA Delegates) Where are YOU? There's more to PA than Pitt and Philly... | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/26/2006 7:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vash
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
(MN Delegates) WHERE ARE YOU? Mind going to some stores?
(PA Delegates) Where are YOU? There's more to PA than Pitt and Philly...
CT delegate WHERE ARE YOU!. If there is one. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 7:56 AM |
| I really think it's a perception problem.
1. Dreamblade needs to make a splash.
2. To do so it needs a "Come play me!" billboard.
3. A large, cash prize structure is the most obvious way to do this as there is no "back story" or real feeder market for the game.
4. $20K appears to be a huge amount of cash because it is. $500 would not have been as controversial, but would also have not yielded the needed results for launch.
5. Someone was going to be either offended by, or ignore the launch. As has been said, there's no such thing as bad press because even when they're mad, you know they're paying attention. Dreamblade has it's chance because it MIGHT stick out in a world almost saturated with games. The $20K number is hard to ignore, so let there be buzz. The negatives can be dealt with, however regretable. No attention at all is much harder.
While I didn't play it myself, the people that played Hecatomb thought it was pretty cool. I looked at it as another fairly pricey game that I wasn't going to drop money in to unless it proved to have some legs because tehre was no incentive to do otehrwise. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 8:27 AM |
| Dreamblade will last as long as Hecatomb ... longer really ... simply because of the prize draw.
I do suspect that, even though I like the far-realms madness hook, the lack of a generic easily referenced setting will hurt it more than anything. It will draw a pool of players interested in the prize support and some number of setting fans, etc. Most of these folks will play TCGs more than CMGs ... and most of them will continue to play LOTS of games. Long term, I suspect the lack of general setting with wide appeal will limit participation.
And I for one like the mechanic of the game. It is a good game. I will play the game and help get things organized locally. The appeal of the cash prizes espescially during the early stages of the game is certainly strong (the early stages are where a slacker like me have a chance to do reasonably well before those that practice all the time move in and push my old sorry hind quarters out of a top positoin ...)
But it will never replace DDM.
I've played D&D for years. Lots of years. D&D has near universal appeal ... there are dragons, good guys, bad guys, nature guys, angels, demons, dragons, odd creatures, normal creatures, dragons, plants, animals, dragons, heroes, villians and wrackspawn. As long as I'm interested in D&D, DDM will have a place for me and I suspect that's true for the bulk of the DDM market. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 8:31 AM |
| And another thing ... and I'm not saying this is what is going on, but consider this.
Continual production of new products ... even those with an initial flash and eventual burn-out ... is a good thing for a company. Seriously. There's an economic ebb and flow of a short-term product life-cycle where, at the end of the day, the product has done its part with the revenues. The product is rarely cancelled at the point it is hemorraging cash and overall has lost the company money ... it is done BEFORE this happens.
Don't expect every product (in this case game, setting, etc.) to last forever. Hasbro certainly doesn't. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 9:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
And another thing ... and I'm not saying this is what is going on, but consider this.
Continual production of new products ... even those with an initial flash and eventual burn-out ... is a good thing for a company. Seriously. There's an economic ebb and flow of a short-term product life-cycle where, at the end of the day, the product has done its part with the revenues. The product is rarely cancelled at the point it is hemorraging cash and overall has lost the company money ... it is done BEFORE this happens.
Don't expect every product (in this case game, setting, etc.) to last forever. Hasbro certainly doesn't.
Yep. Of course you want to nail one out of the park every time you're up at bat but occassionally you have to bunt and hope you can leg it out. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 9:33 AM |
| Ian,
Thanks for the insight and answering so many questions. It is great to have a member of the company who can shed some light on those issues that burn in so many minds. You really clarified a lot.
As for the Delegate questions, what do you want to know? I can do my best to try and answer some of the questions, but in some cases I'm not sure if I can. It is not a hidden or secret group. As for not seeing them at a store, remember this is not a "paid" position and is done on a volunteer basis, which means we all have jobs outside of being a delegate. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Vash
Underboss
1995 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 9:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Ian,
Thanks for the insight and answering so many questions. It is great to have a member of the company who can shed some light on those issues that burn in so many minds. You really clarified a lot.
As for the Delegate questions, what do you want to know? I can do my best to try and answer some of the questions, but in some cases I'm not sure if I can. It is not a hidden or secret group. As for not seeing them at a store, remember this is not a "paid" position and is done on a volunteer basis, which means we all have jobs outside of being a delegate.
Understandable, I don't think we're bugged by those who are Delegates in other parts of the state that cant make it everywhere. I don't expect Delegate A in PA to go everywhere.
Maybe we just need more delegates /shrug
Someone other than me has to be buying boosters at my FLGS (the only place in a 30 mile radius that sells them), I'm sure if we had a south-central -> Central Delegate we could get more DDM support around here. As it stands I think the only support for PA is Philly and Pitt, that's a good 2, 2.5 hours either direction for me and even longer for the rest of PA (Erie and it's Wake)
I think I'm just burned because I hear about all these places that have all this awesome support and I don't even have a chance to do anything with my minis other than display them. I have too much of an outside D&D life to be able to foot a 2 hour drive (and gas bill) every other week to play a game for a day.
Just my personal [:(!] for the day | |
Champion of the Alhoon and my called shot for Unhallowed
Blood War Called Shot: Phoenix
Trade withe me! | |
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Idzy
Commander
3082 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 05/26/2006 9:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
WotDQ Pre-Release
1st Place = 2 Boosters
2nd Place = 2 Boosters
3/4 Place = 1 Booster
[?] OK you've confused me here. There is not cut in prizes. Well none I see and since they all come out of my budget (well pretty much) I'm really confused here. There are only 6 boosters to a case for WotDQ as they are a huge set. Also we only ever send out 1 case for prize support for a prerelease. Also the giveaway mini is a huge, which is significantly more expensive than a medium. So you've got me confused.
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
Thats only 1 Case, thats not much prize support for a Pre-Release at all.
Correct. As it always is.
Ian
I have to disagree that it is an equivalent value to a regular sets prizes.
Entry fees are much larger for a huge set, based on retail for a regular set we're looking at $36 with the stores $10 included, for WotDQ we are looking at $50.
Again based on retail msrp the prize value for first place is
Regular set - 1st 6 x $13 = $78
2nd 4 x $13 = $52
3rd 1 x $13 = $13
4th 1 x $13 = $13
-----------------
$156
WotDQ 1st 2 x $20 = $40
2nd 2 x $20 = $40
3rd 1 x $20 = $20
4th 1 x $20 = $20
-----------------
$120
Now when I look at it in this perspective it sure looks like prizes have been cut while the cost of entry has been increased.
It's even more of an increase if we take the stores cut out of the equation.
reg = $26 WotDQ = $40 for entry fees a 54% increase.
Even with the increased cost of the huge promo, I still feel there should be 2 cases of prize support, or even better a return to 12 boosters to a case.
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Champion of Champions (for all races! even Gnomes  )
Reference Thread
Winnipeg Gryphon Cavalry Forums
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 10:16 AM |
| Dreamblade definitely has the marketing hurdle of no preexisting demand, much like Hecatomb did. Without that, you need some compeling reason to draw people in. Now a serious problem I see is that the actual mechanics of getting together and playing are going to be an issue. When MtG came out, it was and is possible to have a few decks literally in your pocket and play against people. You do not need to bring along a tackle box or bin of minis to play the game. It is very portable. DDM and RPG share a trait of needing a "backpack of stuff" to play, be it mini factions/warbands, rulebooks, dice, note sheets, maps, etc. So there was a built in acceptance of the burden (equipment wise) for getting to a game. Dreamblade has a "Stuff" burden, but no direct cross over to existing games. I am sure that a few of the figures will get kitbashed and converted to straight D&D minis, just like lots of MK and Clix minis have. But I bought those at deep discount since those lines were in clearance modes at the times.
Possible pools of players in my mind include any old CLix players who did not cross over to DDM/SWM/AAM and some DDM players who have little activity in RPG end of things. Some gamers are always looking for the newest challenge to master. The other problem I forsee is if the success of the new line if based on interest in winning cash prizes and not on the core of the game itself, the type of player drawn to it will be more cutthroat and less helping to their opponents. Imagine the judging pressure if the final check is on the line instead of just a title or an extra booster or two. Imagine the rants if a rule is not crystal clear and gets applied differently at times. Money tends to affect the "we all in this together to make it a better game" mindset in a not necessarily better way. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 10:23 AM |
| Zenako brings up a good point, judging will be far more difficult then with DDM. I assume that is why they are having a test for judges like with MtG.
And trust me, MtG can be very cut-throat and ugly at times. It is one of the reasons I don't play except for fun. It is very portable, but people take it way to seriously. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 10:31 AM |
| edit at bottom:
Thanks to Ian for the response.
While I don't agree with everything DJ had to say, I must agree with at least part of it. From where we sit, it looks like a prize cut. See Idzy's math for the equation.
Part of the issue is that we are paying twice as much to play in this tournament, yet most perceive that prize support is less. The stores here in town use the extra buck or three that they collect at tournaments to throw in more prize support. That equation doesn't hold with a huge set - another cut.
Yes, I think the huge spider is worth more than a regular promo - I appreciate that part of your arguement.
Finally, one of the few lessons I've learned in the many management classes my company has had me take is this: emotional people cannot ususally be reasoned with while they are emotional. DJ and some others are emotional about the perception that Dreamblade is what has caused less quality in painting (again, perception and/or reality). DJ and others are emotional about the huge money that dreamblade gets, and the threat that dreamblade will take away from an already small base of competitive players of DDM. I have no idea how to have a rational discussion about this over the internet, as there is almost no way to burst their emotional bubble first (though better paint jobs in the next few sets would help) so I wish you luck in your attempts to convice people that DDM is still getting the support we all want it to get.
edit: don't forget, the only reason people get emotional about this stuff is that they really, really love the product. If they didn't, you'd never hear from us. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 10:51 AM |
| I'd agree, it looks a blow. I mean, there's no difference between the first and second prizes (except being able to claim first place). However, Dreamblade needs a decent opening, but 20K? OK, it's a large sum, but we DDMer's play for the game, surely, not the prize support.
Chris | |
My Trading Thread | |
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Deoxy
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 11:08 AM |
| I'm willing to take a "wait and see" attitud with Dreamblade. I also understand that a new product with no connection to anything needs a draw (hence the money), while DDM (attached to a 30+ year product) does not, so I understand that... but it still FEELs like DDM is getting the shaft (even though it's basically a compliment - it's so good that it doesn't NEED the draw).
But I will say that I called Hecatomb DOA the first moment I saw it, as did a great many other people. It was PAINFULLY obvious.
It's like sombody noticed that the religious fervor for persecution of Magic and D&D had declined, decided that was a BAD thing, and came up with Hecatomb to revive the sentiment, not the mention the plastic 5-sided-card gimmick (the game mechanic, which is actually quite good, could have easily been implemented without it).
In short, I understand that not every at-bat can be a home run, but I'd like the batter to actually face the pitcher and have his eyes open, unlike what happened with Hecatomb. | |
No longer active on MaxMinis | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 05/26/2006 11:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vash
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
(MN Delegates) WHERE ARE YOU? Mind going to some stores?
(PA Delegates) Where are YOU? There's more to PA than Pitt and Philly...
I don't know about down where you are Vash,but out local delegate in Erie, Judge John is awesome.He's more of a Magic guy though. | | | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/26/2006 11:31 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
As for the Delegate questions, what do you want to know? I can do my best to try and answer some of the questions, but in some cases I'm not sure if I can. It is not a hidden or secret group. As for not seeing them at a store, remember this is not a "paid" position and is done on a volunteer basis, which means we all have jobs outside of being a delegate.
It's more than that Sean. I can't even get an answer from ANYONE who can tell me if CT even has a delegate, and if we do, what his/her name is. [?] [?] [?] [?] [?] [?] [?] [?] [?] [?]
I'm not asking that you provide me with that info, but it would be nice to just get an answer. I've tried several times. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 11:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
They are taking away from the DDM Community of Prizes so they can hype up another game which, Quote me here. Will not last as long as Hectacomb.
Quoted for acknowledgement/agreement (in regards to Dreamblade).
The rest of DJ's post, might be an overreaction from my point of view - except the deligate thing, that sucks. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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DireKobold
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 12:15 PM |
| So all of you who are predicting that Dreamblade won't last as long as Hecatomb, have you played it? Because if the answer is no, then your not making an informed prediction you're throwing a childish tantrum.
Also I expected a lot more skin in a post rated NC-17. :) | |
Dreamblade Generator | |
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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 05/26/2006 2:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DireKobold
So all of you who are predicting that Dreamblade won't last as long as Hecatomb, have you played it? Because if the answer is no, then your not making an informed prediction you're throwing a childish tantrum.
Also I expected a lot more skin in a post rated NC-17. :)
Much better.
[:)]
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 05/26/2006 2:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DireKobold
Because if the answer is no, then your not making an informed prediction you're throwing a childish tantrum.
Well now, I didn't feel that I was being childish or throwing a tantrum, guess it must be the caplock button sticking again. I have no reason to get out there and try this, it's just a prediction based on my personal observation and experience. So, nah nah you poo poo head. [:P] | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
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