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Queen of Lurkers
lurkinglidda
Warrior
231 Posts
    
 | | 05/26/2006 11:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
I'm sorry, I'm really starting to doubt the WotC Marketing staff. I'm not saying they suck or they aren't doing their job. I'm just saying they're blinder than a football ref.
[:0] That's Miss Lidda you're talking about!
HEY! I resemble that remark! | |
Assoc. Brand Mgr
D&D Minis
Wizards of the Coast | |
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Mortusbard
Sergeant
427 Posts
North Carolina
| | 05/26/2006 11:34 PM |
| No this may not be popular but here is a question for all of us gamers.
Would you play DDM with no prize support ?
Would you play in tournements for a ranking only ?
Why do you play DDM ?
I would and do.
Without a problem to face better players.
Because of all the games in production I have chosen this one as it has many uses and is very nostalgic.
As we rant some justified and some not. We moan and complain over paint schemes and distribution I think we miss some of what it is to game for fun and to a point competativly.
WOTC has done a lot better with DDM than MtG in my opinion. Some of that is due to the multi usefulness of the figs. Some with the ability to play almost every fig somehow. ( ALMOST )(see wtf )
The company has to amke money. Sometimes it takes money to make mony and others it takes little other than an intitial investment.
PURELY OPINION FOLLOWS
WOTC Will sell DDM with out US. D&D is old tried true and trusted. IT will sell figures that represesnt thier monsters and characters.
Lets do something new and pre-paint them some will like that and others wont but they can be repainted.
Lets make them collectible MtG worked out great.
Lets make another set of rules so people dont have to Roleplay they can just sit and battle.
Lets make it Collectible
Lets have tournements to bring some MtG players into it.
Guys face it DDM started and siphoned from two groups. Roleplayers and MtG players.
Wizards literally split thier own demographic to launch this line. It worked and is doing very well. I like we all like it or we wouldn't be upset about loss of support.
It is the money guys it is not going anywhere. They will write the books create the monsters and then translate them into DDM Slowly.
Dreamblade comes goes and dissappears DDM Will always have a place. | |
Unto Death We Strive,
From Birth unto the Dust, | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 12:36 AM |
| This is just my opinion and only loosely based on facts:
Ian Richards is in charge of organized play for the miniatures lines. I have met the guy and he is very generous. He would hand out pallets of minis at every event if they would let him. He would stuff them in boxes and send them to every player on Maxminis if he could. Unfortunatly he isn't in charge of product allocation. What he gets to do is fight for us to get more free stuff to throw our way.
Now imagine your in sales or management for WotC. You see your game is selling very well. Every set is selling out in decent amount of time, and print runs keep getting larger. Now organized play keeps asking for more stuff to give away for free. As much as they can. In return they hand you 15 tournament reports each week that show players are interested in playing. About the same number of events as they were getting a year before despite the expenses going up. What is your answer?
Sales are up, events are staying the same despite more money being put into organized play. Why keep putting more money into it? It doesn't seem like thats what the majority of players are looking for. They are buying but not playing in events. They are making a statement with their dollars.
So before people complain about dreamblade, or delegates, or only 6 packs for prereleases, they need to see what they themselves are doing for the game. If your not running demos, organizing events, putting up fliers, or otherwise promoting the game we love, then its not corporate money hungry WotC thats the problem. Its the players as a whole.
I have had over 100 different players in my area since I started running games, and only 1 other has stepped up and offered to run events. I twisted some arms to get 2 of them to run demos 1 time. [:(] We can't ask more from WotC until we ask more from ourselves. If your running events: Great! Thanks! If your just showing up to play: Help out! Bring friends! Run Demo's! Go to a store and organize an event!
Help Organized Play hand in 800 DCI event reports for a weekend and see how quickly we get more support.
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Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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daelfslayer
Sneak
82 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 1:20 AM |
| | personally I'd rather have a share of 20g prize money than a lowly 2 packs. I'd then buy as many packs as possible and build a huge army and take over my local game store. As far as dreamblade goes I probably wont' play it much due to the fact I spend wayyyyyy too much money on one mini habit. It sucks cause I liek star wars and axis and allies and don't have hardly any of either. That and I can't find anyone to play it with me. This town I live in sucks. That and my 2nd shift job. | |
Completed trades (16):amator, zardnaar, caustic_mouse, crisisman, ckissee, gausse, agcooper1, talistran, robby, vrecknidj, gordonbloom, nyjustal69, nasamonkey, sulaco, stormhand and oryan77 with 1 more pending. | |
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Shivan Darkeyes
Warrior
266 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 1:21 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by bshugg
This is just my opinion and only loosely based on facts:
Ian Richards is in charge of organized play for the miniatures lines. I have met the guy and he is very generous. He would hand out pallets of minis at every event if they would let him. He would stuff them in boxes and send them to every player on Maxminis if he could. Unfortunatly he isn't in charge of product allocation. What he gets to do is fight for us to get more free stuff to throw our way.
Now imagine your in sales or management for WotC. You see your game is selling very well. Every set is selling out in decent amount of time, and print runs keep getting larger. Now organized play keeps asking for more stuff to give away for free. As much as they can. In return they hand you 15 tournament reports each week that show players are interested in playing. About the same number of events as they were getting a year before despite the expenses going up. What is your answer?
Sales are up, events are staying the same despite more money being put into organized play. Why keep putting more money into it? It doesn't seem like thats what the majority of players are looking for. They are buying but not playing in events. They are making a statement with their dollars.
So before people complain about dreamblade, or delegates, or only 6 packs for prereleases, they need to see what they themselves are doing for the game. If your not running demos, organizing events, putting up fliers, or otherwise promoting the game we love, then its not corporate money hungry WotC thats the problem. Its the players as a whole.
I have had over 100 different players in my area since I started running games, and only 1 other has stepped up and offered to run events. I twisted some arms to get 2 of them to run demos 1 time. [:(] We can't ask more from WotC until we ask more from ourselves. If your running events: Great! Thanks! If your just showing up to play: Help out! Bring friends! Run Demo's! Go to a store and organize an event!
Help Organized Play hand in 800 DCI event reports for a weekend and see how quickly we get more support.
This is so very true. I planted some seeds in the local area and the game really took off from a very minimal amount that I did initially. I got pretty lucky, but I think a lot of people are very willing to play if they see how great the game is.
I really like Dreamblade, I intend on playing both DDM and Dreamblade. I think Wizards is making all the right moves for Dreamblade and has created an excellent game.
A lot of people around here have been very negative about it, saying that it won't last any longer than Hecatomb or however you spell it. I think Dreamblade is an excellently designed game, but it doesn't have a lot of the things going for it that DDM did.
I bought my first Harbinger boosters not because of the skirmish game (heavens no) but because there were CHEAP PREPAINTED minaitures for a roleplaying game that I loved to DM and there were a lot of really awesome looking figs in it. Dreamblade will NOT have this same pull and thus will LIVE AND DIE based on Wizard's ability to create a COMPETITIVE market for it.
Magic can be successful because lots of different types of people like to buy it: "Pro-Tour" types, casual gamers, collectors, and "fan fiction" followers. Wizards seems to be pushing the hyper-competitive aspects of Dreamblade very strongly, I don't know if there is a sustainable market for that type of player, but if there is I firmly believe that Wizards will be able to tap it. I have enough faith in Wizard's marketing, R&D, and the game itself that Dreamblade will be a success, or at least enough faith to buy a few cases when it comes out.
I did not buy Axis and Allies.
I did not buy Hecatomb.
I am usually a pretty good judge of games and I think Dreamblade will do ok. What upsets me about it, is the scale down that DDM has gotten.
Not getting TWO free passes to GenCon makes me really sad since my girlfriend now has to pay for one. BEfore I would always bring a friend with to show DDM with the idea that he or she could get a free pass. In fact, I got one of my friends into DDM because of the free passes to GenCon. Taking them away from the qualifiers made me very sad.
The reduction in prizes for pre-releases also kinda bums me out, but you can't argue with Brad's logic. This is as much a problem with us as it is Wizards. | |
13th Place at the 2005 DDM Championship in GenCon | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 05/27/2006 2:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by lurkinglidda
quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
quote:
Originally posted by dj-chuckles
I'm sorry, I'm really starting to doubt the WotC Marketing staff. I'm not saying they suck or they aren't doing their job. I'm just saying they're blinder than a football ref.
[:0] That's Miss Lidda you're talking about!
HEY! I resemble that remark!
With all due respect, I beg to differ.
I don't much stand for people bad mouthing people that do a good job, even when the bad mouther is bad mouthing herself. AFAICT, you (and Ian... and Shoe) have been doing a fine job. You've been responsive to the community and innovative where possible.
So - stop picking on Miss Lidda, Lidda! | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
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Hellbred_Sorcerer
Skirmisher
5 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 1:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
A great many of the posters here have lived as gamers for decades and can probably give a really good guess about the viability of a game from a number of aspects.
I've lived as a computer user for decades and don't pretend to know how they run their businesses. I've lived as a Coke drinker for decades, but I don't have the foggiest clue how or why some of their products sell or don't sell.
I guess gamers are a special breed...they know more about game design and marketing than the professionals that make their living by creating and selling game products. Man, I should just walk into the Miller brewery down the street and tell them how to succeed at their business...I've been drinking beer for years! | |
My blade and your nightmares shall combine to conquer the Dreamscape. | |
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Okay McKay
Underboss
1070 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 3:47 PM |
| Just my opinion... I believe (well, theorize) that WotC decided that they wanted to do a Magic: The Gathering collectible miniatures game. They were going to take all of the creatures from M:tG and turn them into minis with a feel a lot like the card game.
This would have probably been great, but there would have been a major drawback: What if the miniatures game was not received well? If it wasn't, then one of two things would happen: (1) It would fade into obscurity, or (2) It would damage the status, reputation, and cache of the M:tG brand.
The latter possibility would be potentially catastrophic to the company because Magic is the #1 or #2 brand of the company and what WotC is most known for. So, instead they decided to create a minis game with a M:tG "feel" but without the brand name to back it up. If they did prize support and a tiered tournament system just like the Magic Pro Tour, then maybe they would have a new and highly successful brand that they could continue to build for years to come just like M:tG and D&D.
DDM didn't have the same potential to destroy D&D since the RPG has been around for over 30 years and, most importantly, if the Skirmish game was not well-received then the figures would still be used at the RPG table. There was really no downside for the company.
So, with Dreamblade they decided to roll the dice (so to speak) and see if the brand would stand up on it's own. It is a gamble, but there isn't much of a downside. I'd imagine that Hecatomb and the GI Joe TCG and the other TCG's that didn't make it in the long run still at least broke even. Cards are cheap and make a large margin for the company.
Mini's cost quite a bit more, so they are really going to put their best foot forward with Dreamblade. I guess we'll see how it goes... They seem to have a good team developing it and the tournament and prize structure has already been proven in the M:tG world. I wish them the best.
I will say, in parting, that I really, really don't believe that WotC took a survey and found that DDM players didn't want cash prizes for winning tournaments. I just can't imagine people not wanting to win money for winning a tournament. And, why would Dreamblade players any different than DDM players? Are DDM players more idealistic and Dreamblade players more mercenary? Sorry Ian... I have to call BS on that one. No biggie, though. Keep on doing what you're doing... Maybe we'll get greater prize support in the future as well. | |
"It's an automatic robot, based on science." | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 5:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by daelfslayer
personally I'd rather have a share of 20g prize money than a lowly 2 packs.
What people are ignoring is the fact that you most likely (based on statistics) wouldn't see a dollar of the 20k money even if they gave it to DDM as prize money at GenCon instead of DreamBlade. What percentage of DDM players goes to GenCon? Then take the percentage of those that play at Nationals. Then the percentage of those that win a few games. 99.9% of the DDM fanbase doesn't touch the money even if the WotC decided to give it to DDM as prize money for GenCon. And in reality, it would probably go to Magic if they didn't use it for DreamBlade.
DDM has not been able to get a strong tournament presence going. (Compared to MtG anyway.) Mostly because the vast majority of customers use the minis for roleplaying and skirmish only casually if at all. With DreamBlade they have a chance (even if it's a longshot) of making another Magic the Gathering.
It isn't a very attractive game for me, since it offers neither the portability and large number of players that Magic does or the roleplaying aspect of DDM. But I don't begrudge WotC the right to spend their 20k in any way they please. They can spend it on cabana boys and robotic dragons if they want so long as they keep DDM a viable product line. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 6:05 PM |
| I’ll jump in as someone who’s played a lot of Dreamblade in the past few weeks as a fan, as someone who has just used the spoiler info, “virtual starter” and VASSAL to play.
At the game play level Dreamblade simply does not compete with DDM. The game play is so unlike DDM that it just won’t draw someone who loves DDM and is looking for a “better” or even more lucrative game that could replace DDM in their game life.
DB has been designed, IMO, from the ground up as a tournament game. That means much more than some people realize. It means it must be “simple but not simplistic.” The rules must be air tight, with zero wiggle room or interpretation issues. The rules must be compact enough to be easily memorized by the average Joe. The environment must be designed to handle the most cut throat players – the effort to cheat must be so extreme and so likely to get caught that it’s not an issue. DB, from what I’ve seen so far, does all of this. Perhaps most importantly the game play itself must be what draws the competitors, not back story and fluff. Or, being bold here, even figures. Those will be icing on the cake of great game play; if there’s no great game play underneath then they will be sampled, said “Ummm good!” and in the end make one’s stomach hurt after too many bites. And DB play is great so far, and addictive as hell.
Playing it, DB is nothing like DDM. It’s fast, intense, and very “swingy.” Each turn is its own little game in which options are limited, but all strung together become (or can become… it’s easy to swing right off the rails!), strategic, where a grand plan can be realized. Or not… :) As I’ve learned repeatedly as my grand plan is crushed under someone elses grander plan. While it’s not Magic, DB plays much closer to Magic than DDM.
Will it succeed? I don’t know. I started to type about markets and such, then realized I don’t REALLY know squat about that… so in the end I just don’t know how it’ll do. But will it draw the core of DDM players away from DDM? Nope, it just won’t. It’s too different. It’s much more likely to “steal” Magic and Versus players, IMO. Or it might just tap into that majority of folks who play lots of games, but none of the collectable tournament games.
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Dragon Snack
Warrior
285 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 6:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Okay McKay
I will say, in parting, that I really, really don't believe that WotC took a survey and found that DDM players didn't want cash prizes for winning tournaments. I just can't imagine people not wanting to win money for winning a tournament.
I think I remember taking this survey.
Yes, it did ask about prize support for tournaments. Since I don't play skirmish, big money prizes didn't add to me wanting to play in tournaments. I can imagine they got much the same response from others who use DDM for RPG uses.
Improper data compilation and assumptions leading to false results, methinks... | |
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12506 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/27/2006 6:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Hellbred_Sorcerer
quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
A great many of the posters here have lived as gamers for decades and can probably give a really good guess about the viability of a game from a number of aspects.
I've lived as a computer user for decades and don't pretend to know how they run their businesses. I've lived as a Coke drinker for decades, but I don't have the foggiest clue how or why some of their products sell or don't sell.
I guess gamers are a special breed...they know more about game design and marketing than the professionals that make their living by creating and selling game products. Man, I should just walk into the Miller brewery down the street and tell them how to succeed at their business...I've been drinking beer for years!
I knew that New Coke would fail, you didn't? | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 6:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Okay McKay
I will say, in parting, that I really, really don't believe that WotC took a survey and found that DDM players didn't want cash prizes for winning tournaments. I just can't imagine people not wanting to win money for winning a tournament. And, why would Dreamblade players any different than DDM players? Are DDM players more idealistic and Dreamblade players more mercenary?
The survey indeed was taken, and as someone who participated I can assure you it was real.
I think you actually hit the nail on the head - DB and DDM are very different games, and will attract different kinds of players. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 05/27/2006 9:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Hellbred_Sorcerer
I guess gamers are a special breed...they know more about game design and marketing than the professionals that make their living by creating and selling game products.
Yes, gamers are a special breed. When they see something they don't like, they complain about it and (occasionally) offer suggestions for improvement. But they typically keep buying. This is unlike 99.9% of consumers, who will simply stop buying a product they don't like.
Gee, I wonder which approach WotC prefers? [?]
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
| | 05/28/2006 12:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
I knew that New Coke would fail, you didn't?
I liked New Coke. [:(]
But, to add something to the actual topic:
I've played DDM skirmish since near its beginning, though only casually for quite some time. Only recently have I become serious about tournament-level play, and I find it disappointing that something like Dreamblade comes along with the prizes it's offering to take away current or potential DDM players. All the while, DDM continues to trundle along, seeming to gain more and more players (sales/print run increases) yet stuck with the same prize support -- apparently based in part on subjective interpretation of limited survey results (sounds like many people never heard of said survey, let alone participated in it). | |
My H/W list is not current...
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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2455 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 05/28/2006 5:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kithmaker
Only recently have I become serious about tournament-level play, and I find it disappointing that something like Dreamblade comes along with the prizes it's offering to take away current or potential DDM players.
But the chances that you specifically would see any money are very, very small. The real effect of having a $20,000 prize at GenCon would be to bring those hardcore cempititors from games like MtG. And to be frank, I don't want the comraderie of DDM to make way for the vicious cutthroat atmosphere of MtG.
Even if I had a billion dollars and wanted to become a patron of the game, I would sponsor crazy local tournaments like all chaotic good, or all dragons, or tribal warbands. (Orcs and humans would be banned.) Prizes are best along the lines of repainted minis or GenCon's create your own mini. Cash prizes create an very unpleasant atmosphere. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/28/2006 6:30 PM |
| Heck some ppl are very competitive by nature, throw in cash rewards and they can become cutthroat. As much as I like the idea of a cash prize (and it's really only 10k after the tax-man takes his cut.) I would rather get other incentive prizes, especially something like the make your own mini top-prize. I don't know about you but essentially working at WotC would be a cool thing to do, 'course I'd try to get all the skinny on all the D&D/FR products they were doing while I was in the building. [)]
From the sounds of it Kiddoc and Fenris have/are both had/having a blast thanks to that top prize. 10k OTOH would be gone before you know it and the rush from it even faster. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
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| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/28/2006 6:45 PM |
| This post may very well get baclash from the community
D&D minis is alive only because so many people buy it just for the minis. I can think of a LOT of people who don't play DDM. but they own them. not a staggering amount, but a few hundred each. people like that buy them, and it keeps the sales going. Without them, DDM would have been dead a long time ago. it's why chainmail died. No secondary customer base. I've played D&D for years, and I just bought my first chainmail mini this year. Why? Well it was an Orc Champion. But I still have pewter mini's, but I didn't buy chainmail. It wasn't competitively priced IMO.
Magic was a cultural phenomenon. Schools were holding tournaments.
SWM and AAM has a secondary market as well.
Heroclix even has collector's who just collect DC or Marvel pieces.
Dreamblade needs the money to survive, and be profitable. I think it shows commitment on WotC's part, to plunk money into the untried game to give it momentum. | |
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Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 05/29/2006 10:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kithmaker
I liked New Coke.
So did a large majority of people who took blind taste-tests, New Coke versus then-current Coca-Cola. It was only after the change in formula was announced that New Coke suddenly tasted like crap. Power of perception ... it doesn't matter what it tastes like, just don't mess with my cola. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13069 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 05/29/2006 1:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Teflon Jeff
D&D minis is alive only because so many people buy it just for the minis. I can think of a LOT of people who don't play DDM. but they own them. not a staggering amount, but a few hundred each. people like that buy them, and it keeps the sales going. Without them, DDM would have been dead a long time ago. it's why chainmail died. No secondary customer base. I've played D&D for years, and I just bought my first chainmail mini this year. Why? Well it was an Orc Champion. But I still have pewter mini's, but I didn't buy chainmail. It wasn't competitively priced IMO.
I agree almost totally with this. DDM thrives because of the dual appeal, RPG and Skirmish. Remove one and the product just might fail.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
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I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1928 Posts
| | 05/29/2006 4:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wayne
quote:
Originally posted by Kithmaker
I liked New Coke.
So did a large majority of people who took blind taste-tests, New Coke versus then-current Coca-Cola. It was only after the change in formula was announced that New Coke suddenly tasted like crap. Power of perception ... it doesn't matter what it tastes like, just don't mess with my cola.
How sure are you that you're not drinking "New Coke" right now?
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Wayne
Underboss
1371 Posts
| | 05/29/2006 7:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by LCS
How sure are you that you're not drinking "New Coke" right now?
I don't drink Coke. I'm a Pepsi guy, when I drink cola. But you're right, in a way: the formula for Coke right now is nothing like the formula for "old" Coke when New Coke was released. Current Coke (and Pepsi, and pretty much every other mass-sweetened foodstuff in the U.S.) uses high-fructose corn syrup, which is addition to tasting different than cane sugar, is also much, much worse for you. | |
Jeff "Wayne Laredo" Wilder | Email | Have/Want List | Trade Policies | Are You an Ethical Trader?
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Ironfist Boulderbender
Sergeant
498 Posts
Twin Falls, Idaho, USA
| | 05/30/2006 1:44 PM |
| Ok, here's my 2 cents and a take on everything said so far....
Issue #1
Dreamblade~let it be....people need variety in thier lives.
1) Will it take from DDM players? Possibly, but so did SWM and AAM. Has DDM suffered? Not in my opinion.
2) Will DDM be around untill set 12 so we can find out what Fenris' mini will be? I certainly hope so.
3) Will I continue to buy DDM? You better believe it, pilgrim. Prize support or not.
4) Do I agree with WoTC's decission to hype Dreamblade the way they did and didn't hype D&D Minis the same way. I am split on this one...D&D has had a wonderful following for over 30 years and Dreamblade is new, therefore, Dreamblade needs more hype. Conversely, D&D minis has several great facets...skirmish, RPG enhancement, collectability...Dreamblade has not yet proven itsself as a viable game, so promote something that works (it will draw more people)
Issue #2
Prize support for War of the Dragon Queen pre-release~personally, I think it's very low. Any of you whom participated in the Giants of Legend release event might remember that the prize support was 2 cases (first gets 6, second 4, and 3rd. & 4th. getting 1 each....same as all other pre-release/release events) BUT I don't remember a promo figure like the Archfiends one (unless you count the Crucian).
1) I think there should be a "standard policy" for prize support at release/pre-release tournaments. My opinion is that if you participate, you should recieve a promotional figure (something unavailable anywhere else and designated as a release event figure (see Zhentarim Fighter)) plus any maps, counters, markers, dice, pencils, fill-in-the-blank that Wizards decides would be appropriate.
2) Should there be cash prizes for release/pre-release tournaments? No! I feel that something along that lines will bring in too many of the "I'm going to play this game and make a living off of it" people (and I know a few of them personally). My opinion is people like that are a bad element...they bring absolute cut-throat competition to a game that I feel is very fun (and it's just that, A FREAKIN' GAME!!!!!!!) Something like that would really take away from us who play regularly, pay our league dues, and have a blast doing so. Naturally, being in the league brings some great benifits (D&DC League promotional figures, Epic cards, modules and templates for the monthly winners, and the occasional map or tile) and those who play regularly should be rewarded appropriately. This is not to say that pure collectors (who don't play regularly) should be shunned, but there is always e-Bay to claim your "spoils" or you can acquire them by trading. But, cash prizes would bring in the ones whom will ONLY be there for the release event in order to make money, and once again, this is a game....not a career. We have the Pro Tour Qualifiers for the cash prizes.
3) Expanding on point one...if Wizards wants to "reward" pre-release/release event participants...first off, standardize the prize support and the format. *standard releases/starter releases = 200 point format, Huge pack releases = 500 point format* Example...WOTDQ is (from my information) going to be a 200 point format tournament, yet it is a huge set. I feel it should be a 500 point format for 2 reasons....1) when you get your boosters, there are immediately going to be 3 minis you can't use (the 2 huges in the boosters and the Huge Monsterous Spider promo {and they have ruled that the promo mini that you get at the event is LEGAL in the release event}). 2) Epic figures will not be legal in thier epic format.
A possible compromize for those in favor of cash prizes and those opposed to them might be this...
Every participant recieves ~ designated event promo figure, promotional D20, and a map
4th. place recieves ~ 1 additional booster pack and a sheet of counters
3rd. place recieves ~ 1 additional booster pack, a sheet of counters and a special "winner's Promo" mini
2nd. place recieves ~ 4 additional booster packs, a sheet of counters, the special "winner's promo" mini, an additional promotional D20 and a promotional pen/pencil (idea came from the D&D 30th. Annaversary promo pencil)
1st. place recieves ~ 6 additional booster packs, a sheet of counters, the special "winner's promo" mini, an additional promotional D20, an additional exclusive event promo figure, a promotional pen/pencil, an exclusive template and a plaque designating that player as the winner of the event (engraving is the responsability of the winner)
If this isn't enough swag to satisfy any player who makes top 4, then (in my opinion) they shouldn't be playing. Also, with the plaque for first comes bragging rights....and new players will come to test thier metel and see if they can't get thier paws on a fancy-schmancy plaque that tells the world of thier acomplishments!
Personally, I think Wizards is doing a fine job, but there is always room for improvement. I also think it's our (the players) responsability to support them in thier endevors. They have provided some wonderful games (and a few flops) and we should be thankful that they have even taken the time to make them for us. People are all different and all have different opinions and I think that everyone deserves the respect to HAVE an opinion and to have people listen to it, even if they don't agree.
Pepsi is the ONLY way to go for me! | |
Trade reference thread
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=425
*everything listed below is 2006 and beyond*
Fixed Problems:
Kretobregas-sent
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 05/30/2006 3:07 PM |
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As pissy as I get about many things related to DDM and Wizards, the prize support for prereleases isn't one of them. I'm happy to have the prereleases, and if prizes go with, all the better. (Now, ask me how I feel about the selection of venues.....)
Dreamblade is still a sore issue, but we'll see how it goes. Perhaps the timing of its discovery among fans (coinciding with Wardrums and uh, allegedly poor paint jobs) put a sour taste in many people mouths regarding it. Every now and then its good to be reminded that this is a business, pure and simple, and Wizards is going to moves to promote what it think its best business interests are. I know I forget that sometimes and think that DDMers are "entitled" to more and get emotional when something else gets support that should "rightly" be DDMs - and like someone posted earlier, its hard to reason with emotional folks. [)]
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 05/30/2006 10:24 PM |
| quote:
WOTDQ is (from my information) going to be a 200 point format tournament, yet it is a huge set. I feel it should be a 500 point format for 2 reasons....
The web page info is in error, and Talenfix has confirmed that it will be a 500 point tournament. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Ironfist Boulderbender
Sergeant
498 Posts
Twin Falls, Idaho, USA
| | 05/30/2006 10:59 PM |
| Hooray!!!!!!!!
[:D]
Now that the format has been resolved, we still have the problem of the swag for the top finishers...as it sits there's really no differentiation between 3rd. and 4th. (normal) nor 1st. and 2nd. (abnormal). I mean, when we have out release events, the norm is that once we have the last pair (1st. vs. 2nd. and 3rd. vs. 4th.) the people in 3rd and 4th dice off and watch the battle to see who's going to take first. What are we going to do? When top 4 gets to the final round everyone dice off? | |
Trade reference thread
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=425
*everything listed below is 2006 and beyond*
Fixed Problems:
Kretobregas-sent
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 05/31/2006 5:47 PM |
| The problem I keep having is the set prize support for these events.
There really needs to either be a sliding scale, or stores that don't meet the X number of players needs to be dropped from the list. For example, I know of 1 store in the midwest that had a whopping 5 poeple show up for a pre-release and 4 of those people got to split a case of minis. Montreal? 50 people split the same # of cases, 1.
I really think they need to allow stores to provide discretionary prize support for large turnouts, that a store could be re-imbursed for. Say 24-32 people is a couple extra packs, more then 32 is a second case, or whatever. Somehow they need to re-work the prize structure. | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 10:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
There really needs to either be a sliding scale, or stores that don't meet the X number of players needs to be dropped from the list.
Stores that don't run any other DDM event ought to be dropped from the list as well. And stores that don't get squat for players AND don't run DDM events ... Yeesh. But as long as they report the events, they'll still get them, lack of other events or attendance issues notwithstanding.
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 10:16 AM |
| I agree with the last post. If you are in a city where one store runs events weekly/monthly, and another store gets the big events, there is a problem.
I e-mailed Ian about this, and encouraged my fellow Minnesotans to do the same. Ian said if he got enough comments from one area, he would look into it. Now, MN is resolved, as the one store just bought the other store, but I know others of you are in the same situation. E-mail Ian politely, and state your case, and have others do the same. You may not get what you want, but at least you have a chance. | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 10:31 AM |
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Been there, done that (and so has the store owner, its manager and its events coordinator). Was told that once a store is slotted for a prerelease, short of failing to report or other "serious" issues, they won't get pulled. Apparently lack of attendance is not considered a serious issue - there were only four people at the last event in Waco (all from Austin, no less - we had twice the attendance the following day for a non-premiere event, a fact I'm sure was ignored by those making the venue decisions) and yet Waco is scheduled again for the WotDQ prerelease.
We (the Austinites) considered just not going. That is two events in Waco where we were the sole entrants. However, I'm pretty sure our not attending the event won't work, either. That will just be interpreted as flagging interest in the area, and the area will lose the event completely.
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 10:47 AM |
| | Sorry to hear that. I just don't understand how the decisions are really made. I know it has to do with rewarding stores that also sell other product well. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
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