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Originally posted by WakeXX
I highly doubt it was made rare to intentionally upset RPGers though.

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Originally posted by jgsugden

[Sarcasm]Why was the Orc Wardrummer a rare? It was just an orc with a drum... After all, orcs are just CR 1/2... why would an orc be a rare? And what about the Orc Champion, Orc Druid, Obould... they're all just orcs...[/Sarcasm]

We know *nothing* about the skirmish abilities of this figure. It could be a 20th level druid for all we know. If it helps, think of it as any other race that can have levels - an orc, a human, etc... Some rares are just weak races with lots of power added.

Many rares are pretty mediocre RPG pieces. It is just a fact of the game line. In every set we see figures that could easily have been uncommon based upon the sculpt, but were rare due to skirmish considerations. This is no different.

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Originally posted by KuH
Maybe it is time to give up on that and start accepting that minis will fill only some of my RPG needs, and adjust my buying accordingly.

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Originally posted by glumag
I have no use for skirmish-minded pieces.

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Originally posted by KuH

I'm sure you're right that this guy has some mega spell-casting powers.

And that's a fair comment about buying my trees elsewhere.

The truth is I haven't looked until now: I have been taking the default option of buying only DDM minis as my only role-playing figures and props. I also have the cleanliness of having everything fit together in terms of size, style, look, etc.

Maybe it is time to give up on that and start accepting that minis will fill only some of my RPG needs, and adjust my buying accordingly.

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Originally posted by Shoe

This isn't to hijack the tread, by any means, since I do understand and respect the original poster's concern of the scarcity of the tree-fig - a mini that was initially concepted as a common or uncommon so that getting many would be easier. A number of factors played into making it a Rare - and explaining them isn't the best use of time right now (and wouldn't help you feel any better).

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Originally posted by Shoe

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Originally posted by glumag
I have no use for skirmish-minded pieces.

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In an effort to try to understand, here - could you define "skirmish-minded pieces" for me?

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Originally posted by Ridureyu

And no matter what the figure rarity, somebody will be screaming mad over it.

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey

Thanks for the reply Shoe. I can't speak for glumag, but I sometimes feel similarly. Speaking as a RPGer, some of the figures and slot assignments seem to be significantly influenced by the skirmish game. While this has improved from previous sets with the addition of large uncommons, it's still pervasive. An example would be a creature like the Red Slaad- it's a fairly simple sculpt with a fairly simple paint job. It's also the lowest CR of the Slaads and a creature likely to be encountered in multiples. All of these things make it a perfect choice for a large uncommon. However, it is assumed that because of its skirmish stats its a rare. A similar case can be made for the chain devil and numerous other figures that we RPGers want in droves.

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Speaking as a RPGer, some of the figures and slot assignments seem to be significantly influenced by the skirmish game. While this has improved from previous sets with the addition of large uncommons, it's still pervasive. An example would be a creature like the Red Slaad- it's a fairly simple sculpt with a fairly simple paint job. It's also the lowest CR of the Slaads and a creature likely to be encountered in multiples. All of these things make it a perfect choice for a large uncommon. However, it is assumed that because of its skirmish stats its a rare.

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Originally posted by zenthrus

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Speaking as a RPGer, some of the figures and slot assignments seem to be significantly influenced by the skirmish game. While this has improved from previous sets with the addition of large uncommons, it's still pervasive. An example would be a creature like the Red Slaad- it's a fairly simple sculpt with a fairly simple paint job. It's also the lowest CR of the Slaads and a creature likely to be encountered in multiples. All of these things make it a perfect choice for a large uncommon. However, it is assumed that because of its skirmish stats its a rare.

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I was under the impression that all large minis were rare until Aberrations came out. I'm not disagreeing that uncommon Red Slaads would have been preferrable, I just don't think it was a viable option at the time (since uncommon large minis hadn't been introduced).

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Originally posted by Shoe

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Originally posted by glumag
I have no use for skirmish-minded pieces.

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In an effort to try to understand, here - could you define "skirmish-minded pieces" for me?

I know that because its a skirmish game, we make an effort to have "monster" choices in the Good factions, so a skirmisher might end up with a good-aligned slaughterstone eviscerator, for example -- or a better example is that the four basic elemental types were each associated with a specific faction. But I'm trying to understand which minis people percieve are being added solely for the skirmish game, because its an assumption that isn't true. I can see that some people have this perception, but I would like to know why.

Also note that, especially recently, a creature that has prime skirmish abilities isn't automatically put into the rare slot (in fact, most of the abilities are assigned well after most of the rarities are determined). If you look at some of the uncommon commanders, the Hill Giant Barbarians, or Gith Monks of recent sets, you'll see that uncommons are just as likely to be viable.

This isn't to hijack the tread, by any means, since I do understand and respect the original poster's concern of the scarcity of the tree-fig - a mini that was initially concepted as a common or uncommon so that getting many would be easier. A number of factors played into making it a Rare - and explaining them isn't the best use of time right now (and wouldn't help you feel any better).

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Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Except that the Red Slaad is in Angelfire, 2 sets after Aberrations and a set that included 8 large uncommons.

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Originally posted by zenthrus
As to my other comments, I still don't feel that the DDM line has any obligation (or that I even want them) to provide terrain. Stick with the monsters.

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Originally posted by IanB

You people are way too worried about the cute little tree guy and not spending nearly enough anger on the fact that the blackguard will FALL OFF HER HORSE as soon as a fight starts because SHE DOESN'T HAVE A DANG SADDLE.

Ahem.

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Originally posted by zenthrus
As to my other comments, I still don't feel that the DDM line has any obligation (or that I even want them) to provide terrain. Stick with the monsters.

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Originally posted by glumag

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Originally posted by zenthrus
As to my other comments, I still don't feel that the DDM line has any obligation (or that I even want them) to provide terrain. Stick with the monsters.

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True, no obligation at all to provide terrain or artifacts or siege weapons, etc. BUT, and a big but for me, if you are regardless going to throw them in the set, have in consideration how the RPGer will see it and want it (which they did as it was initially intended but got risen to Rare along the line for X reasons) at least make it uncommon so we can get it in the numbers we need.

I really wonder about the reason why it became a rare.

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Originally posted by IanB

You people are way too worried about the cute little tree guy and not spending nearly enough anger on the fact that the blackguard will FALL OFF HER HORSE as soon as a fight starts because SHE DOESN'T HAVE A DANG SADDLE.

Ahem.

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Originally posted by glumag

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Originally posted by IanB

You people are way too worried about the cute little tree guy and not spending nearly enough anger on the fact that the blackguard will FALL OFF HER HORSE as soon as a fight starts because SHE DOESN'T HAVE A DANG SADDLE.

Ahem.

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Don't forget that frigid girls have strong thighs [:p]

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Originally posted by Ridureyu

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Originally posted by glumag

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Originally posted by zenthrus
As to my other comments, I still don't feel that the DDM line has any obligation (or that I even want them) to provide terrain. Stick with the monsters.

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True, no obligation at all to provide terrain or artifacts or siege weapons, etc. BUT, and a big but for me, if you are regardless going to throw them in the set, have in consideration how the RPGer will see it and want it (which they did as it was initially intended but got risen to Rare along the line for X reasons) at least make it uncommon so we can get it in the numbers we need.

I really wonder about the reason why it became a rare.

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This doesn't fit the fact that apparently a lot of people don't want objects in great numbers in their collections, thus making them good ideas for rares.

It goes both ways.

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Originally posted by dariustad
Yes, the minis *have* a skirmish game. The product is not *just* a skirmish game. It started out as an RPG enhancement product with a skirmish game tossed on the back of the cards. Now, it's reversed and it really is starting to show.

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Originally posted by Ridureyu
And butt-glue.

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Originally posted by Kithmaker

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Originally posted by dariustad
Yes, the minis *have* a skirmish game. The product is not *just* a skirmish game. It started out as an RPG enhancement product with a skirmish game tossed on the back of the cards. Now, it's reversed and it really is starting to show.

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Really? When I went to a WotC press conference at GenCon in 2003, shortly before the release of Harbinger, I got the distinct impression that the product was a skirmish game made up of creatures that, by no coincidence, were designed also for use in RPG play since they came (pretty much) straight from the books.
Besides, the RPG stats are on the back of the cards. [)]

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Roll for initiative!

Prepare yourself for a random encounter with heroes, villains, and monsters for your Dungeons & Dragons roleplaying game. Taken straight from the D&D rulebooks, these characters are ready for battle -- right out of the box.

Each Harbinger expansion pack contains 8 randomly selected, fully assembled, prepainted collectible miniatures with double-sided statistic cards for use with the D&D roleplaying game or for fast, head-to-head miniatures combat.

Three separate Harbinger packs are pictured at left. Each one contains a random selection of miniatures.

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Originally posted by greyhaze

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Originally posted by Ridureyu
And butt-glue.

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Fiendish butt-glue...

Really, no saddle again? Dang it, Snig really bugged me because of that, but at least she's not two handing her weapon.

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Originally posted by IanB

You people are way too worried about the cute little tree guy and not spending nearly enough anger on the fact that the blackguard will FALL OFF HER HORSE as soon as a fight starts because SHE DOESN'T HAVE A DANG SADDLE.

Ahem.

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