RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
    
 | | 06/14/2006 10:40 AM |
| Hey Guys,
It's just occurred to me... with all the stat leaks we've seen, we really will have a bit of an advantage at the pre-release tournament over those that aren't Maxmini readers. While the actual contents of our bands will be subject to random distribution of the boosters, knowing what we COULD face will definitely influence warband construction, even more so for a small pre-release where you get one of the 4 Huge Rares (like if there's only 6 players). I mean, looking at the stats we've seen, it would seem like elemental cold and fire damage might be something to avoid, based on the immunities of Tiamat, Bahamut, Huge Fire Elemental (w/ Bonded Summoner), etc... I mean, I know it all comes down to who pulls what and what they can do with it, but does anyone here believe that seeing the stat list doesn't give them any advantage over those that haven't seen it?
Rob
| |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
|
orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:50 AM |
| | sure. more as being able to see the danger from the other bands then the advantages of your own band. it is very easy for one who is just seeing the cards to forget about your swift lighting bolt etc. | |
Yes I am Gelatinous.
www.gelatinousdudes.com
| |
|
Archer_Drake
Skirmisher
15 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:53 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Hey Guys,
It's just occurred to me... with all the stat leaks we've seen, we really will have a bit of an advantage at the pre-release tournament over those that aren't Maxmini readers. While the actual contents of our bands will be subject to random distribution of the boosters, knowing what we COULD face will definitely influence warband construction, even more so for a small pre-release where you get one of the 4 Huge Rares (like if there's only 6 players). I mean, looking at the stats we've seen, it would seem like elemental cold and fire damage might be something to avoid, based on the immunities of Tiamat, Bahamut, Huge Fire Elemental (w/ Bonded Summoner), etc... I mean, I know it all comes down to who pulls what and what they can do with it, but does anyone here believe that seeing the stat list doesn't give them any advantage over those that haven't seen it?
Rob
I'ts called being an insider! Enjoy your privileged place in our small society. | |
| |
|
XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:55 AM |
| | It's probably slightly unfair and is likely a reason that Wotc does not want spoilers like this coming out so early, but speaking as a judge, I greatly appreciate it. I know I've made 2 wrong calls during War Drums and 1 wrong call during Underdark because I didn't know the figures well yet. This will give me some time to study them and make our pre-release run smoother. Oh...if offical DDM judges happen I wonder if they could sign a NDA in order to see the stats ahead of time...probably not, so many people I'm sure someone will leak it but would be cool theoretically. | |
| |
|
robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
...but does anyone here believe that seeing the stat list doesn't give them any advantage over those that haven't seen it?
It does give us an advantage, especially as we start seeing articles about what pieces are best in sealed. (I think it was Jesse that did some articles for War Drums, and they were extremely valuable.) But it is an advantage that is available to anyone who comes to this site, and membership here is free, so I don't think it could be considered "unfair".
| |
To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
| |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:57 AM |
| | I am actually glad they are coming out because it will give me more time to write my aforementioned article. The third in the series! [)] | |
I am not gone. | |
|
The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:58 AM |
| | Xeno hit the nail on the head, there is an advantage to it. I generally bring a print out of all stats and pass them around at the prereleases. That and I've never been to a prerelease where we didnt know the majority of the stats. Angelfire we didnt know two when I went (stone giant, orc wolf shaman) that was the closest to not knowing that ive seen. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 10:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
It's just occurred to me... with all the stat leaks we've seen, we really will have a bit of an advantage at the pre-release tournament over those that aren't Maxmini readers.
Oh well, tough for them. The info is neither secret nor difficult to find; they are welcome to log on to MaxMinis and/or WoTC too.
For the last one I printed out the spoiler-sheets and the excellent analysis of the best and worst figures to use at the release tourney (I forget who did it but I hope to hell they do it again!) and gave them out to folks. It was a great help in warband building. | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:06 AM |
| | I just wish I had my promo Sorcerer on Black Dragon promo ahead of time, so that I could sneak it into my warband if my pulls at the prerelease are a bad as normal. [:p][}:)] | | | |
|
RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Xeno hit the nail on the head, there is an advantage to it. I generally bring a print out of all stats and pass them around at the prereleases. That and I've never been to a prerelease where we didnt know the majority of the stats. Angelfire we didnt know two when I went (stone giant, orc wolf shaman) that was the closest to not knowing that ive seen.
Oh, I didn't realize this was common. I only started playing skirmish after War Drums came out, so this is my first pre-release. I hadn't realized that it was SOP for the players to have all the stats beforehand...
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
|
Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Oh well, tough for them. The info is neither secret nor difficult to find; they are welcome to log on to MaxMinis and/or WoTC too.
That is true, I totally agree w/ you on this one. If they want to know, then look it up. | |
Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
Squire of Death Giants
Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:13 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
For the last one I printed out the spoiler-sheets and the excellent analysis of the best and worst figures to use at the release tourney (I forget who did it but I hope to hell they do it again!) and gave them out to folks. It was a great help in warband building.
That was me. I will be doing it again. [:P] | |
I am not gone. | |
|
English Ghost (OP Program Manager)
Talafenix
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:14 AM |
| You're all right and HUGE thanks for making me think of this action.
Following the released information you do have an advantage and therefore I have taken all you guys and placed you on a temporary 30 day sanctioned event exclusion starting immediately.
What that means is we'll be treating you like we do contractors or a web rep who has advanced information. This helps the none privelaged players to catch up.
Thanks for helping by reminding me of this and posting so it was easy to compile the list.
Ian
Ian Richards
Program Manager for D&D Miniatures
Wizards of the Coast
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
OK OK so I'm evil and this is all in jest but I bet more than one of you was thinking WHAT THE.... !!!???! [:p] | |
Ian Richards
RPGA Program Manager
Program Manager for D&D, Star Wars and Axis & Allies Miniatures.
Organized Play
Wizards of the Coast | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:18 AM |
| Ian's a funny man! [)]
I have never been to a prerelase without the vast majority of the stats already known. The closest we really got was at WF for War Drums, where things were VERY tightly controlled. We had next to nothing until a FULL leak popped up just 48 hours before the event.
In that case, I was a bit disappointed. It's one thing to see things so early, it's another when WotC's plan seems to come off with a hitch till that last moment...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Oh, I didn't realize this was common. I only started playing skirmish after War Drums came out, so this is my first pre-release. I hadn't realized that it was SOP for the players to have all the stats beforehand...
Rob
Then you're in for a treat. Limited tournies are great and pre-releases even moreso. They are all about fun cos everyone is so chuffed at jsut getting and seeing the new figures. They are a total blast. There's lots of moaning about crap pulls and gloating over good ones but it's all in good fun. Expect a lot of people wandering around looking at your pulls and asking to see figure X or Y.
The fact that this is an Epic one as well (my favourite format) I am doubly stoked! | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:36 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
For the last one I printed out the spoiler-sheets and the excellent analysis of the best and worst figures to use at the release tourney (I forget who did it but I hope to hell they do it again!) and gave them out to folks. It was a great help in warband building.
That was me. I will be doing it again. [:P]
Thank you! And please, take no offense that I forgot who did it. It have no memory for names. I am also not one of those people who can look at the stats and have them dance around in my head making synergies and lining up in order of usefulness and whatnot so your analysis was an absolute godsend. It made bandbuilding a whole lot easier and I finished fourth. That doesn't sound that great but considering the fact that the top 3 all qualified for GenCon it is pretty darned good! [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I am actually glad they are coming out because it will give me more time to write my aforementioned article. The third in the series! [)]
And this series is great. Seriously.
I like Sulaco's idea of printing them out and distributing them to everyone. Since we Austinites have to drive to Waco (*cough*) for the prereleases, we've gone over them in the car on the way up. And, since we're the only ones that ever show up at the Waco tournies (*cough again*), distributing them hasn't been necessary - but I think I'll print a few extras anyways just in case someone from somewhere else decides to show up.
| |
To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
| |
|
Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robby
I like Sulaco's idea of printing them out and distributing them to everyone.
Well, not everyone. I do want to win, after all. [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
|
Zoons
Underboss
1067 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:50 AM |
| Rob,
Just wear your "I learned everything I know on Maxminis" T-Shirt, and next pre-release everyone will be just as informed as you. No more advantage and you won't feel so guilty. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
|
Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 11:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
That was me. I will be doing it again. [:P]
Only this time you won't have WF to provide you with preliminaries! [)] | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
|
RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 12:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zoons
Rob,
Just wear your "I learned everything I know on Maxminis" T-Shirt, and next pre-release everyone will be just as informed as you. No more advantage and you won't feel so guilty.
Lol... I guess the back could have a slogan like "Everything you wanted to know about D&D Mini's but were afraid to ask", right? [)]
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3938 Posts
USA
| | 06/14/2006 12:11 PM |
| Ian's a very funny man. [}:)] Someone call the hospital and let them know I need my heart revived.
Go Jesse go! Write that dang article as fast as you can so that we can comb through your analysis and build what we hope to run at the pre-release. [:p]
On a serious note, you a great job with those articles. ΖD]
| |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 12:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Xeno hit the nail on the head, there is an advantage to it. I generally bring a print out of all stats and pass them around at the prereleases. That and I've never been to a prerelease where we didnt know the majority of the stats. Angelfire we didnt know two when I went (stone giant, orc wolf shaman) that was the closest to not knowing that ive seen.
Interestingly, this brings back a memory in the deep recesses of my mind. There was once a player that asked me to recuse myself (in very polite and professional terms) from tournament play at the 2005 Championship because I had advanced knowledge of some figures in the set being released so close (angelfire at the time) to the tournament. In a sense--I would have unfair prep time. I was legitimately concerned about this as well, but from a different perspective--so I cleared it with the Dev team at the time.
Given that I KNOW some of the uh... competitive players out there have had access to slightly more complete spoiler lists, and they more actively seek out and are granted access to this information than the DDM hoi poloi, are any of them concerned about the competitive advantage? Will any be recusing themselves from limited OR constructed tournament play? It is absolutely 100% true that some players have gotten "more" information than is accessible to the general public in this case. Much of it could be obtained through dedicated searching--but there is a time and ease of access advantage to be had by these players.
Obviously I'm playing Devil's Advocate here--that's my job round these parts now. Still, I was always puzzled by the term "competitive advantage" and how when you're out of the knowledge you raise concerns about it, but when you're suddenly "in" you can find lots of reasons to explain the point to the contrary. For example, I'm now "mostly" out of the loop on what's coming out--and I don't lend tons of credibility to the "advanced knowledge" is insurmountably unfair camp. The people that play the best, do the most metagame testing, and have the best luck will win no matter how much "time" they have to prepare (i.e., the difference of one month vs. 6 weeks of preparation). On the other hand, I've also lent an ear to the camp that's said: "Having additional knowledge is an unfair advantage in some ways." I think the real issue lies somewhere between the two, it's just interesting to see the differences that a few years can make. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
|
One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 06/14/2006 1:13 PM |
| | I would guess that it gives a slight unfair advantage, perhaps moreso with WotDQ than normal, were it not for the fact that the info is in the public domain on several websites, and that most players at least look at maxminis, or talk regularly to local gamers who do. The reason I think the advantage for WotDQ is slightly larger is that normally you often have to throw in most of you're rares and uncommons just to make up 200 pts, whereas here, once you factor in the spider and your other two huges, you have to have at least 426 pts (and thats if both your other huges are spiders as well), and after smaller rares and people getting expensive huges, I can see every player having between 600-800 points to choose from, so knowing what is good will help more than usual. | |
Thousands of Zulu's, behind You!
Proud member of PK's team low tier beasting; CG for ever!
Champion of the Dragon Disciple | |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 1:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kiddoc
Interestingly, this brings back a memory in the deep recesses of my mind. There was once a player that asked me to recuse myself (in very polite and professional terms) from tournament play at the 2005 Championship because I had advanced knowledge of some figures in the set being released so close (angelfire at the time) to the tournament. In a sense--I would have unfair prep time. I was legitimately concerned about this as well, but from a different perspective--so I cleared it with the Dev team at the time.
Actually, its only been a year. And I think pre-releases are slightly different then the National Championship, as you well know. I do still consider advanced knowledge to be a competitive advantage, but I am a bit less concerned about it then I once was.
My views on the competitive game have shifted in general though, and I am more tolerant of certain strategies and ideas in general than I was a year or two ago. (For example I have gotten over my completed hatred of denial and gather enoguh points and flee strategies. :P)
Though I have no more access to the spoilers than any one else, I don't think that participating in the Championships for those that have access should be a problem as long as there is say a month lead time between set release and the tournament itself.
However, part of the reason that I write these sealed guides is specifically because of said concern. While it is somewhat impolite to say, some people are better at the miniatures game than others. By putting together this guide using the input of the community as a whole, I hope to help level the playing field so that those who have greater DDM ability than others and have the time or focus to look at the stats ahead of time and then use that knowledge to build the most optimal band possible doesn't win against someone who doesn't have that time or ability.
Granted that still puts those who have know knowledge of the stats or guide in general at a disadvantage, but I believe that the guide widens the field in general. | |
I am not gone. | |
|
trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 1:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Talafenix
You're all right and HUGE thanks for making me think of this action.
Following the released information you do have an advantage and therefore I have taken all you guys and placed you on a temporary 30 day sanctioned event exclusion starting immediately.
What that means is we'll be treating you like we do contractors or a web rep who has advanced information. This helps the none privelaged players to catch up.
Thanks for helping by reminding me of this and posting so it was easy to compile the list.
Ian
Ian Richards
Program Manager for D&D Miniatures
Wizards of the Coast
HAH! Now ya'll know how I feel! [:p]
quote:
OK OK so I'm evil and this is all in jest but I bet more than one of you was thinking WHAT THE.... !!!???! [:p]
DARN! [:(]
quote:
Originally posted by Kiddoc
Interestingly, this brings back a memory in the deep recesses of my mind. There was once a player that asked me to recuse myself (in very polite and professional terms) from tournament play at the 2005 Championship because I had advanced knowledge of some figures in the set being released so close (angelfire at the time) to the tournament. In a sense--I would have unfair prep time. I was legitimately concerned about this as well, but from a different perspective--so I cleared it with the Dev team at the time.
Given that I KNOW some of the uh... competitive players out there have had access to slightly more complete spoiler lists, and they more actively seek out and are granted access to this information than the DDM hoi poloi, are any of them concerned about the competitive advantage? Will any be recusing themselves from limited OR constructed tournament play? It is absolutely 100% true that some players have gotten "more" information than is accessible to the general public in this case. Much of it could be obtained through dedicated searching--but there is a time and ease of access advantage to be had by these players.
Obviously I'm playing Devil's Advocate here--that's my job round these parts now. Still, I was always puzzled by the term "competitive advantage" and how when you're out of the knowledge you raise concerns about it, but when you're suddenly "in" you can find lots of reasons to explain the point to the contrary. For example, I'm now "mostly" out of the loop on what's coming out--and I don't lend tons of credibility to the "advanced knowledge" is insurmountably unfair camp. The people that play the best, do the most metagame testing, and have the best luck will win no matter how much "time" they have to prepare (i.e., the difference of one month vs. 6 weeks of preparation). On the other hand, I've also lent an ear to the camp that's said: "Having additional knowledge is an unfair advantage in some ways." I think the real issue lies somewhere between the two, it's just interesting to see the differences that a few years can make.
Well,
Some of us just got the advanced info yesterday, so it's not that much ahead of everyone else in this case.
On a more general level, I don't think having the info ahead of time is all that useful since it is just on-paper estimatesunless I were to go so far as to actually practice ahead of time using proxies. Then it gets a lot more questionable but in most cases it would require a violation of the NDA in order to do this. It would be even more questionable if I got advanced knowledge of the map the Championships are going to be played on. But I don't see or want that happening. | |
| |
|
RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 2:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by trollbill
Well,
Some of us just got the advanced info yesterday, so it's not that much ahead of everyone else in this case.
On a more general level, I don't think having the info ahead of time is all that useful since it is just on-paper estimatesunless I were to go so far as to actually practice ahead of time using proxies. Then it gets a lot more questionable but in most cases it would require a violation of the NDA in order to do this. It would be even more questionable if I got advanced knowledge of the map the Championships are going to be played on. But I don't see or want that happening.
Actually, I have read some posts on here about people already trying out some of the mini's on Vassal. It's easy enough to proxy once you have the stats. Is that 'questionable'? I mean, it's going to be a prett random crap shoot about what mini's you pull (I guess you can expect to get certain commons, but beyond that who knows what you'll get). I don't know what the right thing is... and apparently having advance knowledge of the mini's stats is common for every previous pre-release. I'm just asking if people think it's fair, and if not, what should be done to make it a level playing field for all?
Rob
PS: It's not like I haven't read virtually every post on the spoiler list, I'm just thinking about the guys that just walk in off the street with no internet spoilers in their back pockets expecting a fair chance. | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
|
striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 2:24 PM |
| Ian... you are one evil, sick, twisted, man... your my hero!
So it gives a slight advantage, who cares. As it is sealed and you are at the mercy of the god of bad pulls, you deal with it (or is that the god of bad sorts, I think he is a god in China...)
I think that yes you might have an advantage, but enjoy it. Others have learned the advantage of maxminis and the site is growing. How many people hit this site last year or the year before? People have realized that there are fantastic players here and repersentation from WotC as well.
Once everyone is here, we'll have to make a new secret club house. | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
|
Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 2:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
quote:
Originally posted by robby
I like Sulaco's idea of printing them out and distributing them to everyone.
Well, not everyone. I do want to win, after all. [)]
Heeeeey... I didn't get one of those sheets! [:P]
Ah well, I prefer to just see what I get and go from there, b'sides doin the stats for lemonbutter keeps me in tune with most of what's coming. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
Bluedevyl
Warrior
262 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 2:51 PM |
| | Normally, we'll print out the spoilers and bring them with us to leave out around the tables before we start playing so that people who haven't spent as much time looking at them will have a chance to take a look before the game starts, but the ability to have a REALLY good idea about synergies and strategies going in I think does lend us some advantages over the guys who havent read these boards. | |
Champion of Tanis Half-Elven | |
|
kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 3:28 PM |
| As mentioned, the advantage is usually slight. Your pulls and ability are still the most important things.
If you get cruddy pulls, I don't care how well you know the stats.
| |
| |
|
Narethkraag
Sergeant
848 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 3:29 PM |
| I think there would be an advantage if you practiced with the same minis you pulled in the tourney, but this would be random and you still have to get the good minis out of your boosters, you might have an idea of good warbands, yet you still need the right minis to build them........
Not to mention the dice bit, you have to roll at least decent numbers.....[:D]
as far as an advantage goes, guess you do have a slight advantage,yet I still think veteran players can and will come up with great bands on the spot.....ΖD] | |
my list:http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=narethkraag
completed trades: Capnfrank, Sturmkraehe, Jeff Wilder (x5), Mrfurious, Shinobi, Hockeyfan, Kyrin x2, Scepter, Archimagus, Enginer230, The Last Huzzah, War golem, RedSkullz
Definetely bad trader: Invictus | |
|
Brimulk
Sneak
162 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 3:30 PM |
| When I first played in limited events, I didn't know about Maxminis, and only went to the Wizards boards to hear people speculate about the new figures in the previews. I didn't have any stats for Deathknell or Angelfire figures prior to the events. I came in 4th in DK, 15th (out of 32) at one AF PR and 1st in the second one. So, in general, I wouldn't say advance knowledge was the biggest factor.
However, I don't think the stats were spoiled nearly as early, so it wouldn't surprised me to see people doing some play-testing, but the randomized aspect of limited makes it awefully tough to playtest what you actually pull at a PR. But then again, I like waiting until warband building time at the PR to look at what works well together with the 16 (or 17) figures I have access to, rather than trying to memorize and analyze the whole set. I find that just spins the tires a little too much and doesn't really get me anywhere. I definitly know now there are figures I'd like to get (for the PR or for playing later) but I don't bank on it.
But then again, I like the pre-releases to get my hands on some new figures and enjoy randomized games more than the analysis anyway. [:)] | |
Vindicated Champion of Green Slaad
Champion of the Feyr
Correct Unhallowed Called Shot - Bone Naga
Night Below Called Shot - Skulk | |
|
trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 4:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
quote:
Originally posted by trollbill
Well,
Some of us just got the advanced info yesterday, so it's not that much ahead of everyone else in this case.
On a more general level, I don't think having the info ahead of time is all that useful since it is just on-paper estimatesunless I were to go so far as to actually practice ahead of time using proxies. Then it gets a lot more questionable but in most cases it would require a violation of the NDA in order to do this. It would be even more questionable if I got advanced knowledge of the map the Championships are going to be played on. But I don't see or want that happening.
Actually, I have read some posts on here about people already trying out some of the mini's on Vassal. It's easy enough to proxy once you have the stats. Is that 'questionable'? I mean, it's going to be a prett random crap shoot about what mini's you pull (I guess you can expect to get certain commons, but beyond that who knows what you'll get). I don't know what the right thing is... and apparently having advance knowledge of the mini's stats is common for every previous pre-release. I'm just asking if people think it's fair, and if not, what should be done to make it a level playing field for all?
Rob
PS: It's not like I haven't read virtually every post on the spoiler list, I'm just thinking about the guys that just walk in off the street with no internet spoilers in their back pockets expecting a fair chance.
No, it's not quesitonable because everyone that is doing this is doing it with information that is currently available to the public, i.e. anyone can jump onto MaxMinis (and other places) and get this info. What Kiddoc is asking about, and what I am responding to, is people like him and me that have NDAs with Wizards and who get info even before the public. For example, while I only got all the WotDQ info yesterday, this was mostly due only to a miscommunication. I could have had this info months ago. So the question was, if I did have it months ago, would that have given me an unfair advantage for the Championships (or at least a sufficiently unfair advantage that I should be disqualified from playing in it)?
Note, I am already disqualified for playing in pre-releases. | |
| |
|
Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 4:32 PM |
| There is already a certain advantage given to skirmishers at a PR, the advantage of large numbers of RPG only players who show up for the event. With a huge set this would only seem to be magnified.
Advance knowledge is nice, but bad pulls are bad pulls. And let us not forget the unforgiving mistress that is the D20, all the strategy, foreknowledge and experience in the world will wither and die after a string of 1's.
If people are using proxies on Vassal? How do they keep it secret? Just by watching such a game you could get an edge. Also I don't really think that the game is so complicated as to require advance knowledge for a marginally experienced player to evaluate a piece on the spot.
Also as a statement on recusement. Having a player withdraw from a PR is silly. If such a player really has some uber-secret early warning strategy in place it would seem to me that I want to see it in play. That way I can start using it as soon as possible [:p]. I might even get lucky and have such strategy be available to myself as a result of my own pulls. | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
|
trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 4:34 PM |
| | Double Post | |
| |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 4:39 PM |
| | I actually think the pre-release disqualification is fairly odd in DDM. I understand it a little better in MtG, where synergies are usually less obvious and there are more cards in a set and thus more things to keep track of, but DDM sealed play is still pretty much straightforward stuff. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 4:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I actually think the pre-release disqualification is fairly odd in DDM. I understand it a little better in MtG, where synergies are usually less obvious and there are more cards in a set and thus more things to keep track of, but DDM sealed play is still pretty much straightforward stuff.
While the official policy is likely a holdover from MtG, I am not going to complain about it. I will dearly miss pre-release tourneys, but I was given a choice of being given info that would allow me to write articles with more topical relevance to the community and not be allowed to participate in pre-releases, or not getting this info and being able to participate in the pre-releases. I, and others, decided we would rather better the community. So we were given our options and we made our choice. | |
| |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 5:02 PM |
| This also gives us a qualified judge for our pre-released. [:D]
Bill, I need to have Sam get you in contact with the Unity folks about that... | |
I am not gone. | |
|
trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 5:09 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
This also gives us a qualified judge for our pre-released. [:D]
Bill, I need to have Sam get you in contact with the Unity folks about that...
Yes, there is that little additional advantage to the community.
Please do, I've been meaning to ask the two of you about that. [:)] | |
| |
|