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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
    
 | | 06/16/2006 5:02 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
Anyone who thinks that D&D needs new monsters, classes, races, etc. to keep it "fresh" is being amazingly clueless about the game.
Ummm...insults trying to reach a much wider audience?
Nope, just making a statement of philosophy. "Freshness" and "Innovation" in D&D have nothing to do with new monsters, feats, races, etc. The beauty of the game is that it is fresh and new every time somebody plays it. So I say again that anyone who thinks that D&D needs new stuff to keep it fresh is being very clueless. Now new stuff naturally helps, but it is not necessary. So my back always gets up when someone calls this new stuff "innovative." In our society, "innovative" has a connotation of "improved" or "better." "New" does not equal "better," just as "old" does not equal "better" either. There are monsters that I have hated for 25 years (there have been lame monsters used to fill space in a book for decades), and monsters that I found out about this past year and love.
quote:
IMHO, I'd argue that variety adds to the game, rather than detracts.
Of course it does. However, lack of infinite time for gaming means I can't use all that variety. And lack of infinite reading time means I can't even find out about all that variety.
quote:
IMHO, if you don't like new content, you don't have to use it. IMHO, I don't see how this could possibly be a problem to the civil, intelligent people who post on these boards [)]
I don't see why either, but apparently it puts one in danger of "turning off" one's imagination and closing one's mind.
quote:
Thanks for all the IMHO to cut and paste by the way. IMHO, I use too many IMHOs (which kind of looks like...never mind). [:P]
No problem. They're everywhere, really, even though people have varying success seeing them. Just bubble right out of the internet. Take as many as you like.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
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Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 5:07 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
Sulaco: "I like a mixture of old and new monsters. I think that it's healthy for the game."
Kyrin: "You're stupid and you don't have any imagination! Stop insulting me! I'm not insulting you! You're ruining the game!"
Wow. Guess I was reading a different thread. Well it certainly can't be said that you lack imagination.
quote:
Originally posted by Sulaco
Anyway, back on topic: I maintain that the there really is no one figure poised to be as ultra-suck as the Nightwanker but that the Bluespawn will be the dud huge of DQ.
I agree with the first part, and would have agreed with the second part until the Barney stats were released. He'll be wanted for skirmish, and wanted in multiples. | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 5:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kyrin
I don't see why either, but apparently it puts one in danger of "turning off" one's imagination and closing one's mind.quote:
Thanks for all the IMHO to cut and paste by the way. IMHO, I use too many IMHOs (which kind of looks like...never mind). [:P]
No problem. They're everywhere, really, even though people have varying success seeing them. Just bubble right out of the internet. Take as many as you like.
My choice of words seems to have really gotten under your skin. I apologize. I was not trying to imply that anyone who didn;t embrace new creatures was somehow mentally deficient. Reference to turning off the imagination and closing the mind were only in reference to the new creatures themselves. I was simply trying to say "don't close you mind to these just cos they're new, you may find that they can spark your imagination in new ways that older figures don't anymore." Sorry for not being more explicit (and I mean then genuinely).
Think back to the days when you were new to D&D, when every encounter was witha creature you'd never even heard of let alone fought and defeated a hundred times over. New creature can rekindle that sense of discovery and mystery. When I drop a Bluespawn on the table the reaction is going to be "WTF is that?!?" not "Oh, another _____. Yay."
I don't see how you figure using new creature is a time killer, cos it's quite the opposite for me. I don't have the time to sit hunched over a ream of notepaper with books scattered around in front of me, carefully handcrafting new monster with the care and craftsmanship of a 90 year old cabinetmaker. Now I can pull out a stats card, flip to the D&D side (those cards are a friggin' godsend for me) and I'm ready to go with a brand spanking new creature my players have never fought before, recapturing for a moment that original sense of wonder and discovery ina way that no amount of orcs, trolls, aboleths or beholders will ever be able to match.
And in my experience there is no such thing as a humble opinion. [)] | |
Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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kyrin
Commander
3171 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 5:40 PM |
| Apology accepted, Sulaco, and many thanks. I'm sorry if I offended -- or excessively baffled -- you.
I *can* see your point, actually. It is nice to see the shock value when I plunk down an unknown mini. But my players don't read the Monster Manuals much, so I get that with almost any monster. [:D]
I also like the look on their faces when a monster they think they know does something unexpected. Like the 10th Level Kobold Fighter. [)]
I'm glad we could get to a point where we can understand each other. Now I gotta go "handcraft" a Gnoll Druid...
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Kunimatyu
Sergeant
725 Posts
| | 06/17/2006 12:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zenthrus
quote:
Originally posted by Kunimatyu
Hey now, don't be hatin' on the Aboleths. What's not to like about giant tentacled psionic fishthings from the dawn of time?
Everything? [)]
You, sir, have elected the way of pain...
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Champion of the Aboleth, Prophet of Denizens. BW Called Shot: Babau, UH Called Shot: Aspect of Vecna | |
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delguidance
Sergeant
394 Posts
| | 06/17/2006 1:25 AM |
| Aboleths have infiltrated the thread. Run run for your pitiful lives!
Excellent discussion all around. Can I just... Excuse me... Thanks... IMHO people come to DnD with several sources of inspiration already. When many were first introduced to DnD they'd already been fans of Scifi and fantasy. Depending on age they'd seen Jason and the Argonauts and read Tolkein or they'd seen the LOTR movies and read Harry Potter. Regardless, DnD became a way to develop shared interests through shared story telling. We'd already been inspired. And we continue to get inspired by outside sources. That's why my friends and I can go with just the core books.
Take something basic like Zombies. I'd seen Michael Jackson's Thriller video and watched Night of the Living Dead before playing DnD. I knew that zombies ate brains, but it didn't say that in the MM. So we had adventures where crazy stuff resulted in zombies eating brains. Fast forward, Nowadays we could do a zombie themed adventure based on the Walking Dead or Marvel Zombies comics or a Shawn of the Dead story if we wanted to.
Then Libris Mortis and Heroes of Horror come out, two other excellent sources of inspiration. And there's many more ways to play with zombies. More choices make more possibilities for fun.
Its like legoes, I could still be playing with Duplo happily. I have the imagination to make that four pegged red block into a cow if there's two eyes on it. Or, if I were to be so inclined I could buy the new Spongebob or Bionicle sets and do something completely new and really detailed visually.
Personally I feel that an imagination is challenged when its been exposed to everything and you have that, "everything's been done" attitude.
But maybe that's just my Aboleth master tellng me to think that with its brain piercing tentacle. | |
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| Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 06/17/2006 2:11 AM |
| I can't say I'm too surprised in the direction this thread headed off toward. Invariably, there's one of these for every new set -- usually before we have direct access to it, and on-or-around the time most of the stat information "leaks."
I usually stems from the minis *most* DDM collectors/players did not want to see. However, since it's in the set and we'll be getting it anyway, it's time to vent -- often through a myriad of feelings, including, but not limited to: frustration, anger, misquotations, veiled contrivances, annoyance, sillyness, "punchiness," miniature cravings, RPGers vs. Skirmishers, Grognards vs. "Newbies," and the fact we're all being denied our addiction to new "plasticrack." Heck, there could very well be some inebrieated behavior mixed in as well -- especially around weekends!
Recipe for Disaster
So, what happens? The "punches" are thrown, the "counterattacks" planned and delivered, then toss in a few hidden insults, a dash of ego, a pinch of "OH YEAH? SAYS YOU!", and crack open a few dozen "IMHO's". Mix thoroughly. Mix it twice to be positive it is well blended! Pour into forum. Set thread to "Possible Flame War." Wait a few days to a week until thread is either golden brown or a burnt cinder.
Serving Instructions:
Golden Brown: Holocaust averted! Some miracle prevented total destruction. No thread/account locking necessary -- be amazed! Repeat recipe until you get right.
Burnt cinder: Your average forum disagreement on something new and radical. The older tried-and-true users can't (or won't)grasp it, but the "youngins" love it because it annoys the "old farts." Lock thread immediately so it can begin anew next time something radical comes along.
Serve hot. Feeds: Number of users involved in argument.
Suggestions for leftovers: Run screaming into the night, or create a new thread and watch the bonfire (bring marshmellows (or small fire elementals -- I guess some think they're a delicacy)).
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Tasmanian_tiger
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 06/17/2006 6:27 AM |
| In the end, it's all about the plasti-crack, evil aboleths and an occasional dragon.[:p]
I would be tempted to point to the blue barney as the new nightwalker. But it's all subjective. I'm leaning more towards animal-like monsters, and matter. Blue barney would not see use for the moment in my campaigns. Plus, I don't skirmish (yet! I'm going to give it a try in a few weeks.)
About the new and old. Somehow, D&D minis are inspiring to me. When I hold up a new one in my hands, I begin thinking about a story. Odd not? | |
Champion of Dragotha
"Life is full of doors that don't open when you knock, equally spaced amid those that open when you don't want them to"
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