Meds
Warrior
286 Posts
    
Alameda, CA
 | | 06/25/2006 1:45 PM |
| I am having a good weekend: 5-2 in the Norcal qualifier, England are through to the last 8 of the World Cup, plus an Archmage stat card arrives in the mail courtesy of Ian Richards.
Archmage
264 points
CG
Level 12
Speed F8
AC 23
hp 120
Melee +10/+5 (10 magic)
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Special Abilities:
Independent. Flight. Blindsight; Conceal 6; Quick Cast [][] (Can cast 1 spell as a swift action); Spell Penetration (Roll twice to overcome Spell Resistance); Spell Resisitance
Seplls:
4th - empowered Melf's acid arrow (unlimited uses)(sight; 20 acid damage, ignore Spell Resistance)
5th - hold monster [][] (sight; Paralysis; DC 17), teleport [][](self and adjacent ally; place this creature in any space it can see at least part of and place that ally adjacent to it)
7th - banishment [][] (range 6; destroy target Outsider or target summoned creature with 75 or fewer hp; DC 20), finger of death [](range 6; destroy living creature, 25 damage instead on successful save; DC 19)
Thanks to Ian for the card, and for running an engaging 'guess the epic cards' puzzle. | |
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MightyEinherjar
Sergeant
387 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 1:49 PM |
| Sweet action.
No swords though eh? I like the unlimited arrows though. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 1:50 PM |
| Interesting. Epic Mordy wins of course but it ain't bad. I'd stil rather use multiples of the regular Archmage.
R~ | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 1:53 PM |
| | Hmm, I really like the unlimited EMAA's and Teleport, but I'm pretty disappointed with the rest. No Mordy's Swords? Yuck. Hold Monster is pretty weak at DC 17, particularly in Epic, and in regards to the amount of paralysis immune figures. Banishment and FoD have DC's too low to be reliable. 264 is too many points to pay for spells that will fail more often than not. | |
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WJA
Warrior
244 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:03 PM |
| he's costed at less than epic elminster. Is this a signal that 1000 pt play could make an appearance? mmm... 1000 pts.
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:10 PM |
| DC 19 on finger of death...hmmm. Teleport is interesting...but not at that price.
Give me 2 regular Archmages and the points, thanx. | |
Rhane
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 06/25/2006 2:15 PM |
| Not too shabby but one I doubt I'll play. Some interesting spells, the teleport could come in handy in certain situations.
Still, I'm looking forward to getting my hands on one. [:)] | | | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:18 PM |
| I think Teleport is the star of the show in that spell list. You could rescue Rikka if she waylaid in at bad time, or drop kord off deep behind enemy lines with all of the squishy support. Sounds fun!
I'm kinda glad the M. Swords are gone, the slow death of a thousand cuts encourages the AM player to play fast, and the opponent to play slow. Which aggravates both players. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 06/25/2006 2:27 PM |
| Teleport is huge.
Teleport in, unleash two powerful spells on foes... and then watch the epic beater that you brought with you slam an enemy for 120 damage on top of your spells... nasty with a capital NAS.
And the loss of swords is not too bad... they were not too powerful in epic unless you had a lot of them. | |
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Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:36 PM |
| Teleport is tremendous. You could bring along Epic Kord with you and see a poor hapless commander or squishy piece get jacked hardcore. The possibilities seem very deadly.
Loss of 2 swords hurts bigtime. Can't say I like that. I'm not sure I think he is worth it at 264 points. | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 2:37 PM |
| I think he's an entirely different creature in Epic. Will take some practice with him, he won't be played exactly like the non-Epic stats.
I'm dissapointed they took away the magic missles though. An Acid Immune creature will stop him quick. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 3:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XenoZephyr
I think he's an entirely different creature in Epic. Will take some practice with him, he won't be played exactly like the non-Epic stats.
I'm dissapointed they took away the magic missles though. An Acid Immune creature will stop him quick.
Yeah, Queen T is much happier that they're acid, as are Couatl friends. However, Helmed Horrors aren't good enough blockers for spellchuckers any more, for those that actually use LE spellhurlers. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:37 PM |
| | I think he should have still had one or two swords. He just doesnt seem to have the kind of damage output that the regular one has. I'd rather have two regular Archmages. Kind of a let down =/ | |
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:45 PM |
| Looks like another epic card that could have had a lot of "bang" but limped and whimpered its way into production.
It feels like the addiciton to overpricing that plagued dragons to uselessness for years (and is still hampering them) has been moved over to epic cards. | |
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Username
Warlord
5692 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:51 PM |
| | I wonder which finger is the death finger..... | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
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Venport
Sergeant
739 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 4:55 PM |
| | Teleport will be lots of Fun... | |
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Daunte
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:30 PM |
| | I can see some interesting things coming with the teleport. But being someone who has played 2-3 archmages in every epic game i have ever played, i would rather just take two archmages then one epic. | |
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greyhaze
Warlord
7715 Posts
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IHawk
Underboss
1054 Posts
Lisle, Illinois
| | 06/25/2006 5:39 PM |
| I like teleport. It certainly allows you to more your biggest
beater, without him using a move action. Plus it allows you to put
him in a place that he'd not be able to otherwise get to...assuming
your CG beater couldn't otherwise fly. I think this could be
a useful piece, I think certainly fun to play!
Now, where do I get one...Med's [:D][:D][:D] | |
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WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 06/25/2006 5:44 PM |
| | Thanks for posting the stats. | | | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:48 PM |
| I guess I always expect the epic version of a peice to fullfill the same role as the original, only he has even more. I think maybe this is a problem. It happened with Aspect of Nerull, where they are two totally different units and do different things. The Archmage seems to be the same way.
He doesnt have as much firepower, etc as the original, but he has his own role to play and it can be pretty bad if he's able to do it. Teleport does look nice. I guess I was just under the same impression as most other ppl, that the epic archmage would come with a lot of firepower. Maybe they are trying to change this perception and you just cant expect anything.
I'm sure this version will be tested out and we'll see if it comes to anything, but for the most part I dont think it'll see a lot of use. More ppl want firepower, not tech. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:49 PM |
| | I think Teleport is really an interesting spell. Allowing that Titan into flanking bonuses also is a nice help, and those commanders are suddenly VERY vunerable. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 5:49 PM |
| | Also.. a scan would be nice if you are able at all =) | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 6:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by True_Blue
Also.. a scan would be nice if you are able at all =)
hear hear!
thanks for the stats! | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 6:11 PM |
| What the Epic Archmage really gains over the standard version:
Finger of Death and Teleport
What it loses: Certain damage from EMM and Sword.
The EMAA may do a little more damage that EMM but adding the acid type makes it useless agianst far more creatures. A benefit of EMAA that can't be overlooked is that it ignores Spell Resistance thus this battle is almost a draw.
The Finger appears to replace the Swords as both are range 6. The Finger has the advantage of ending a figures life early but a save and targeting restrictions keep swords as a better option. A failed FoD save is fast but Mordy's Sword only needs two rounds to do more damage otherwise and isn't as restricted otherwise.
Teleport is the Epic's saving grace although it may not be enough. It is great because you can bring your fat bodyguard with you and can place it in otherwise unexpected places much like the Drider Sorcerer did with Transposition. The weakness of this is that after adding the Epic Archmage there aren't many points left over for a great beater and additional support.
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 06/25/2006 7:51 PM |
| | he kinda losses some of his flavour without the Mordy's swords so meh for me. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 06/25/2006 9:36 PM |
| | Hey, Martin... we're playing epic on Monday at Endgame... it'd be a perfect time to try him out... | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12504 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/25/2006 9:42 PM |
| | At first glance, the regular version of the Archmage still looks a lot better. Two regular Archmages pumping out Mordenkainen's swords (and then following up with more damaging spells) into an enemy titan is better than anything this guy can do. | |
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Salean
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 9:53 PM |
| Playing epic archmage would be a huge waste in epic. He's garbage.
I'm glad to see they gave him blindsight though for when the melee juggernaut known as archmage wades into combat. Watch out Kord. | |
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cerberuspuppy
Warrior
288 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 10:06 PM |
| I dunno. Acid immuntity is relatively rare, Spell Resistance is actually a little more common. Teleport is really scary. I hope they're very careful with that spell in the future.
Depending on just how nasty Teleport turns out to be, it might be the case that he kinda needed one more finishing touch to really be the Epic Archmage, and that might have been some sort of area effect spell. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12504 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/25/2006 10:19 PM |
| | Unlimited uses of EMAA, and its ability to ignore SR means that the Archmage is also the best spellcaster against things like the Iron Golem. The IG used to really nerf spellcasters, but at least now the epic AM would have it for breakfast. | |
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Pegasus Knight
Sergeant
896 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 10:56 PM |
| I'm not convinced the Epic Archmage is worthless. Does he have a learning curve? Yes, absolutely. Does he require different skills/mindsets than the standard Archmage? Definitely.
Is he worthless? I'm not so sure. Teleport has some genuine potential. Add in Blindsight and unlimited Empowered Acid Arrows, and he can cut down some of the more typical counters you'd see. Mind you, I would've liked him to have some sort of non-elemental ranged damage as well, such as some Empowered Magic Missiles, but oh well. | |
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Salean
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 11:01 PM |
| Unlimited uses of EMAA is fine, there's nothing wrong with it.
But it's only 20 damage. Paying over half your warband for that is horrible.
The teleport brings nothing but a fun gimmick. What are you going to teleport that's worthwhile with the remaining 236 points? Before you consider that, you've yet to add a commander and an actual beater to teleport around.
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 11:50 PM |
| | The non-epic aspect of Kord and the frenzied berserker are quite affordable, and represent themselves pretty well even in the epic format. I could see a warband using the Epic AM like a b-52 bomber, dropping high yield Kord bombs near key targets. | |
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SYB
Warrior
328 Posts
| | 06/25/2006 11:58 PM |
| Well, if you really want to teleport something, you could teleport a non-epic archmage.
Combined with the quick cast both units have, teleport + quickcast + move, followed by cast + quickcast + move could easily be VERY devastating (practically a sure thing kill on your opponents commander).
-SYB | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 06/26/2006 12:06 AM |
| Very Meh imo.
I like teleport, but having something nasty to teleport with will be trickier.
I`ld rather two x Archmage than 1 x epic... but I only have one so....
I think in most cases I`ld still go 1x non epic instead.
If it had kept one sword... or gained an Area Efftec... Finger of death being unless against construct and undead.
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Salean
Skirmisher
8 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 12:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by taliesin
non-epic aspect of Kord/frenzied berserker
You can only bring one, and in epic you're not bringing a lot with just that. Neither piece will drop something like AoM. Assuming you want commander assassination you're way better off using the mephling pyromancer to put fly on kord.
Kord only has the one attack anyway and you have a fireball to spare.
quote:
Originally posted by SYB
Well, if you really want to teleport something, you could teleport a non-epic archmage.
That has some excellent merit behind it. But instead consider fielding two AM, using dimension door to get behind then using the swords. With the two AM you're spending less points, get more swords, have more total HP all in the same number of activations. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 1:18 AM |
| I would just much rather have the damage potential of the regular Archmages. Now if you arent going for damage, and instead going for tech, it seems like the epic archmage is way too many pts to invest with tech. I just dont see how anyone would want to dedicate the pts just for the teleport.
I think this is another subpar epic.. and here I thought we were getting better after seeing epic Guen =) | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/26/2006 3:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Salean
quote:
Originally posted by taliesin
non-epic aspect of Kord/frenzied berserker
You can only bring one, and in epic you're not bringing a lot with just that.
Uh... Epic Archmage is 264 pts. Kord is 65. FB is 52. I think I can fit 3 solid hitters, a commander, and some filler into those 236 points and still hit eight activations.
Not sayin' that a band anchored by the epic AM doesn't have bad match-ups, but so does every band these days. Be balanced. Epic AM eats SR All folks for breakfast, and can be a tactical nightmare against an unprepared foe.
Not every new release has to knock your socks off to still be a decent choice. | |
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