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Subject: An Open Letter to Shoe:

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Massawyrm
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07/09/2006 4:32 AM  
Shoe,

Well, Dragon Queen is finally out and the whining, bitching and screaming has begun. Welcome to the game, my friend. But as you peruse the threads detailing complaints about distribution, paintjobs and the minis people don't care for, I wanted to say this:

Great freaking job, man. Seriously.

I've been a big fan of DDM since months before the release of Harbinger. I was one of the first members of this site, and spent days on the WoTC boards taking in every little tidbit we could get our hands on. But over the course of the sets, various setbacks took many of us out of the game. The big paint quality drop off when Star Wars began, the banning of the Drider, and of course the fact that we watched as only one or two iconic D&D monsters found their way into each set, while the rest seemed buffered out with whatever WoTC was pushing that month. To be honest, I had all but completely lost interest in the sets - I still wanted the minis for gaming, but dropped out of the forums and never bothered to check what was coming out. Afterall, it was going to be a handful of cool minis, and lots of mediocre ones. And Giant Frogs, one cannot forget (or forgive) the Giant Frog. I simply placed my orders. Hell, I didn't bother to pick up my Underdark order for three months. War Drums became an all time low - as I looked at what they were releasing, I simply didn't order. To this day, I haven't purchased a single pack of Wardrums. I traded some of my old extras for what little I wanted from the set.

After that, I decided I would never again buy another large order of minis. I'd buy off of the singles market. That is, until the first images of WotDQ came out. I got excited. Holy Crap! Tiamat! What? Meepo? Okay, if it means never seeing that thread again, I'm fine with it. Dracolich? Purple Wyrm? Huge Fire Elemental? Really? We're getting everything we've been asking for? What the hell was going on here?

Shoe. Shoe was going on.

Dude, you have absolutely rekindled my love for DDM. I bought and opened four cases of Friday, and spent the whole day sorting the cases for my firends, compliling 6 complete sets. It took all day, but it was worth it. I just loved looking at those minis.

And everything I'm hearing about Blood War has me chomping at the bit. I feel like I did in the early days of DDM. I'm excited, I'm loving the minis. And I can't wait for more. Great choices on this project. Good job all around.

We're gonna complain. We're internet folk, it's what we do best (Hell, some of us are even professional critics.) Just remember that while many of us might be unhappy with how someone packed our cases, it's because we love the product, and we can't get enough of it.

Good job, man. Good job.

Now, get to work on a kick ass set 12 while they paint Blood War. That Gelatinous Cube isn't going to make itself.

Best,
Massawyrm

(A note to fellow board members: There are at least a dozen other threads complaining about the set, let's let this one being about a bang up job Shoe did on his first set.)

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07/09/2006 6:17 AM  
It is a very well done huge set.

Is is the perfect set for me. No. My perfect set was wardrums. A set a lot of people didn't like. Wardrums suited the types of RPG storylines I play better then any other set. Everyone is different.

WOTDQ is very well done and has had a huge positive support in the local gaming community in Halifax. It has created a lot of interest in 500 point play. It did something I have not see in a while. New faces at the pre-release and more importantly at our weekly DCI tourneys.

good job shoe.


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07/09/2006 6:28 AM  
I must say the set is excellent. I was a bit worried after war drums, but the sculpt and paint job quality are usually excellent, and the addition of clear plastic is great.
Great job Shoe and WotC !

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yack
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Gatineau Canada

07/09/2006 7:55 AM  
I too am very happy about the paintjob and scuplts this is a very beautiful set!
Great Job!

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07/09/2006 8:52 AM  
I can't fault the painting on any of the minis I have seen. And I believe I've seen every minature apart from Tordek.


Zenako
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07/09/2006 9:10 AM  
Kudos as well...

Paint jobs = expectations = happy customers (sure a few could be better, but that is always the case, but as far as I can tell, no Frost Dwarf debacle this time. THe White Hordling is pretty lame, but it is a common and never was promised to be much anyway...)

The choices made for the Huges was pretty good overall. None of the rares should have been uncommon, and only Barney should have happened less often than Uncommon. Barney is kind of like the Nightwalker in my book, one is fine, but could you ever use two at once? Huge Fire, Spider, DBeast, Troll and Worm you could see times you want more than one at a time. I know in my higher end RPG games I HAVE used more than one at a time of these guys in the past. 11 for 12 hits, good average.

The only downer so far appears to be packing distribution, and what appears to be certain pairings. I am sure that based on the various threads and feedback that someone will be looking into that, but all that has done is potentially reinvigorate the trading market with some people getting many Tiamats and no Dracoliches or Scouts, while others got the flip side. With the more uniform distribution of recent sets, many case buyers had gotten used to picking up their allotement of cases and ending up with a set at the end of the day of busting open boosters. Just didn't happen as easily this time.

and finally, unless I missed some fine print somewhere, this is the first set WITHOUT an ORC in the set list!

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West Valley City, Utah

07/09/2006 10:49 AM  
This set has been so good that my only real complaint is that I want more after having spent so much already. That isn't really a negative compared to the negatives that were piling up before the release of the set. I have five cases. I have hardly any uncommons I would want to trade, but I want at least 25 more uncommons (four specific ones that I want more of).

My only real request is that the stirge get reproduced exactly how it is (same mold and everything) for set 12.

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07/09/2006 10:55 AM  
I'll second this thought. I had an absolute blast at the pre-release, due in no small part to some well crafted/balanced figs.

I use my figs for RP mostly and I can think of several minis from this set that will make their way into my games, both home and LG.

The Army has a saying, "Soldier's aren't happy unless they're b!tching" Gamers are kinda like that too.

Great work Shoe!

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London

07/09/2006 11:14 AM  
I think the painting is better than good, it is the best yet. Especially on the uncommon huges; compare any of them to the awfulness of the cloud giant and the nightwalker. Also, the normal sized rares (especially large green, spellscale sorceror, clawfoot rider and griffon cavalry) are really amazing.

Well done Shoe, and well done to the quality control guys, this is so much better than the whole wardrums thing.

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07/09/2006 12:19 PM  
most of us haven't been saying much because we're playing with our new minis:P

So yes, the set is a hit. My local FLGS sold out in under 24 hours.

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Walnut Creek, CA

07/09/2006 12:28 PM  
I agree that the set is wonderfully done, and I contribute a lot of that to our resident WotC Superfriends. Thanks, folks.

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07/09/2006 1:45 PM  
4 cases bought, 3 figs short of a complete set. And only 3 other rares that I actually want more of than I have. All that adds up to a killer set in my book.


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07/09/2006 2:03 PM  
I agree with everyone else on this thread. WotDQ is a really good set, and I am still admiring the minis I have.

My only complaint? That my SoBD came without its head. But that's a production fault which hopefully customer service will rectify.

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sam500
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07/09/2006 2:10 PM  
The set would be perfect except for one major problem....

The Rares.


They're horrible.
Very few iconic monster rares, and most I don't really want. blah.

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07/09/2006 3:35 PM  
Let me add my gratitude for a well done set. While a have a quibble or two with a couple of paint jobs, the set is overall wonderful. The sculpts are outstanding. Great job, Shoe and all involved in creating these minis!

Regards,

V


MechaKingGhidra
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07/09/2006 3:46 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by sam500

The set would be perfect except for one major problem....

The Rares.


They're horrible.
Very few iconic monster rares, and most I don't really want. blah.

As much as I truly hate to say it, for the most part I must agree with this. I am far more interested in the uncommons(Mountain Troll, Purple Worm, Bluespawn Godslayer, Displacer Beast Pack Lord, Greenspawn Razorfiend, Poison Dusk Lizardfolk, Blackspawn Exterminator, Huge Fiendish Spider, Small Black Dragon, and Yuan-Ti Halfblood Sorcerer) and commons(Witchknife, Hunting Hyena, Cloudreaver, Cleric of Laogzed, Diseased Dire Rat, Azer Fighter, and Doom Fist Monk) over all of the few rares I want(Large Fang Dragon, Aspect of Tiamat, Sorcerer on Black Dragon, and I'm not quite sure if there are any more but you get the point as I couldn't name more than 3 minis without stopping to think if there were any more that I might have forgotten). I do commend the effort put into this set but it does not seem like the minis that are supposed to be harder to get because they are supposed to be in higher demand are living up to the Rare status. All in all, it is a great set but it would appear *almost* to the point where one could safely say that if we could choose which minis to automatically own from the set list, nearly all of them would be the uncommons and commons. Oh well, I can look past this and just be glad to have any sort of pre-painted figures for RPG use(whenever I might be my group's DM), skirmish games, and desk ornaments(I don't know anyone else with a Formorian paperweight[:D]).

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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

07/09/2006 3:50 PM  
I'll add my thanks for the awesome set here too, I thought the distribution was fine, I got a nearly complete set out of 3 cases.

Yeah I got 2 dupe cases but I wanted 2 dracoliches and 2 SoBDs but I had no problem trading for the 2 huges I was missing with the other guys opening their cases at the store and lets face it there are only 12 huges there are bound to be duplicate cases out there there are only so many ways to pack them.

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07/09/2006 4:44 PM  
WotDQ is a good set, except for the fact getting a certain uncommon is harder then getting a certain rare

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The Fortress of Solitude

07/09/2006 4:56 PM  
I'll also put in for a job well done. The choice of huge minis was about as good as one could expect, while still saving some other things for future sets. The rares for the rest of the set though are not so great. Some of my favourites are the Cadaver Collector, Large Green Dragon, Griffon Cavalry, and Tordek. The rest leave something to be desired. I was really looking forward to the Blackguard on Nightmare, but I think that this one could have been nicer.

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07/09/2006 5:07 PM  
I'll give this set three thumbs up and a blinking eye-stalk and I haven't even gotten my cases in yet, the fact that I like just about everything in this set makes me know I'll like just about whatever I get (unless every case is all duplicates of the two figures I dislike, not likely [:D]) koodos man, koodos!


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07/09/2006 5:11 PM  
I don't actually have any of the figures in my hands yet, but I like most of what I see as well. Mounted figures are my favorites, so seeing several of them in this set was a good sign and I hope we'll continue to get more (Giant Owl Cavalry and Pegasus Cavalry for 'teh' win).

Likewise, the new Small Copper Dragon has thrilled me with its Skirmish performance on Vassal and in 'theory games' against myself. I'm even pleased with the Tavern Brawler; RPGers will love it, and I think it makes a fine "Light Infantry" piece in cases where CG players don't want an Elf Warrior but need something with a little bit of damage output over pure speed.

As an LG-secondary player, I wasn't happy about the Rarity distribution but I sure can't complain about the Skirmish stats of what we got. War Weaver, Golden Protector, Tordek, and Aasimar Fighter all look solid.

I've been fairly vocal about both my complaints and the things I like in this set, but I'll re-affirm that as a pure Skirmish player for CG and LG, I've found stuff to like with this set and hope it'll get the 500/8 format going more seriously.

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07/09/2006 5:49 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by One_Wing

I think the painting is better than good, it is the best yet.



It's not. Compare the Diseased Dire Rat with the GoL Dire Rat.

Gol Dire Rats have at least one more paint step [the tail.]

The Goliath Cleric and the late run Dragonborn Fighter are on a par with the uncommon Warforged for paint jobs. Which would be fine but they are rares and have no other justification for thier rarity.

None of the Larges looks as good as the Drider Sorceror let alone the Couatl or Large Red Dragon.

The Aspect of Bahamut doesn't look as well painted as the Huge Gold Dragon.

The Large Green isn't as impressive as the Large Blue.


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07/09/2006 6:04 PM  
Great Job, Shoe... I'm really pumped about this set... the RPG value of a lot of these figs is really terrific. The Purple Worm, the Troll, the Fire Elemental (who you could strip and paint blue for a water elemental) and the others is just great.

I really dig the paint jobs and the different sculpts are really original.

Thanks Shoe!

(any negative comments about this post can be posted elsewhere... like Massawyrm said, there are a dozen other complaint threads... lets keep this one positive)

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Ridureyu
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07/09/2006 6:29 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by sam500

The set would be perfect except for one major problem....

The Rares.


They're horrible.
Very few iconic monster rares, and most I don't really want. blah.



I WANT MORE MAGMA HURLERS


And amazingly, I've got a friend who actually uses one as a character. That must be a whacked-out campaign/. (A fifth-level Magma Hurler SORCERER? Do they have the INT for it?)

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07/09/2006 10:35 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu

quote:
Originally posted by sam500

The set would be perfect except for one major problem....

The Rares.


They're horrible.
Very few iconic monster rares, and most I don't really want. blah.



I WANT MORE MAGMA HURLERS


And amazingly, I've got a friend who actually uses one as a character. That must be a whacked-out campaign/. (A fifth-level Magma Hurler SORCERER? Do they have the INT for it?)



They would use their Charisma. Ummm, 11. They barely manage it, able to cast 1st level spells. Of course, that one is an average specimen, this one must be better than that.

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07/09/2006 11:40 PM  
I have no complain over the paintjob or sculpts as they do look nice. Since this is a thread about praise, that is all I can comment on.

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Netherlands

07/10/2006 4:00 PM  
Got cases today: great set, kudos to the wizos!

Paintjobs, Sculpts, and Distribution all worked perfectly for me. I am very happy indeed!

D.

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07/10/2006 4:27 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by sam500

The set would be perfect except for one major problem....

The Rares.


They're horrible.
Very few iconic monster rares, and most I don't really want. blah.



Not a problem for me. I now have all the rares I need. I'll likely never buy another WotDQ booster again. So *I* think the choice of rares was fabulous. Not so fabulous for Wizards' bottom line maybe, but faboo for my budget...

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07/10/2006 4:38 PM  
I also want more magma hurler. Not for skirmish. Probably not for RPG (though I will use them in RPG...)

I just want them because they are cool looking little suckers.

I am not gone.

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07/10/2006 5:08 PM  
I haven't gotten mine yet, but of the people I have met in person that have, all of them are very happy with this set. I think that most of the set is great from an RP standpoint, and while some of the huges were obviously done at marketing's request (Blue Godslayer), the designers were smart enough to make up for this by making these minis the DDM desirable ones.

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07/10/2006 5:09 PM  
Actually, now that I have seen it I really, really like the Bluespawn Godslayer. I showed it to a few people in my group and they were pretty universal in their agreement about it looking pretty intimidating, especially when placed next to the minis that represented medium sized creatures. When looked at with angles besides the one they took a picture of, its a good looking figure.

I am not gone.

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07/10/2006 5:36 PM  
I have to agree. This IS a great set. You know you've done a good job when folks like me are excited to play with the new figures and already have cash burning a hole in the pocket for the next set...momentum maintained...

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07/10/2006 5:39 PM  
Shoe did indeed do an excellent job. The set itself is marvelous, which is why it is all the more heartbreaking that I have so little of it. Unless Shoe was sitting alone in a factory somewhere making sure that there were numerous duplicate cases in order to **** over DDM customers then I cannot and will not fault him for the horrors of Black Friday.

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07/10/2006 10:43 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

I also want more magma hurler. Not for skirmish. Probably not for RPG (though I will use them in RPG...)

I just want them because they are cool looking little suckers.



QFT! Hold 'em up to the light and they are pretty suckers.

They're really the only rare I want more than two of. I'm even going to work them into Hellspike Prison. Moo hahaaaa...

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07/10/2006 10:46 PM  
Magma Hurler? Really?

My H/W list is not current...
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07/10/2006 10:50 PM  
yep the magma hurler, it was one of the few minis I really didn't like from the pictures but in hand it looks great.

I have to add my kudos on this set I love almost all the minis in the set, the details on the huges,the purple worm's mouth as one example, are great.

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07/10/2006 11:06 PM  
I really would like to thank Shoe, Lidda and everyone at WotC for such an awesome set. I know some people are disappointed about the case distribution. I might be too, if I could afford cases. BUT this set pretty much had everything people wanted and have asked for at one point. Think about it. Rares people wouldn't want than 1 or 2 of, except the huge rares. A mix of AWESOME DnD icons (purple worm and dracolich) and newer creatures(dragonspawn). Now maybe there was a lot of hate on the dragonspawn, mainly because it was new. People are very hard to accept change, but some are slowly converting to at least give the dragonspawn a chance. Also, the commons and uncommons rock and can be used in multiples( poison dusk lizardfolk, kobold zombie etc,) Also, we have a wizard who isn't bald! We even got a non-combatant mini( tavern brawler) I mean, all of this shows WotC is listening, and if we can stop complaining about this and that for 5 minutes and realize how much they have listened, we can appreciate it.

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07/10/2006 11:35 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Kithmaker

Magma Hurler? Really?



I like the Magma Hurler, too! Hold one up to the light; it has a visual effect similar to the Balrog in the LOTR movie. In fact, I'd love WOTC to make an "Immolating Balor" mini if they can give it the same effect as they gave the Magma Hurler.

Regards,

V


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07/11/2006 2:07 AM  
This really is a nice looking set. Great sculpts and paint jobs all around. So much better than War Drums it's not even funny. For instance, just look at the Ogre Skirmisher. That paint job is far better than many of the WD rares.

I really like the choices for most of the figures. It's great that they're finally making minis desireable in numbers as commons and uncommons. The rares are figures you'd want 1 or 2 of. That's exactly how it should be. Great job Shoe and company.

While I disagree with a few of the choices (i.e. the stirge belongs in a non-huge set), overall I'm really impressed with what I'm seeing. Inspite of all the spoilers and problems leading up to the release and all the complaints that have followed about non-random distribution, I couldn't be more excited about DDM.


Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread

monster_slayer
Warrior
Warrior
331 Posts


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07/11/2006 8:33 AM  
I would like to add my 2 cents as well on a job well done.

You can please some of the people some of the time, but never all the people all the time.

Life is like a dogsled team, unless you are the lead dog, the view never changes.

Champion of the Warforged Juggernaut
Champion of the Purple Worm (Vindicated!)
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