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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
    
United States
 | | 10/21/2006 6:13 AM |
| I think we'll have to reserve judgment on the original post's issue until after Unhallowed comes out. But, even then, we'll have the problem of there eventually being a set that isn't liked and someone will say, in effect, "See, see, there's the proof, they increased the prices but the value of the set didn't really go up." But, that's irrelevant anyway.
Prices go up. That's what happens. Being surprised that a business raises prices is like being surprised that the evil NPC was lying.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/21/2006 7:53 AM |
| Posted By Harneloot on 10/20/2006 10:31 PM
And go back to cans of soup and pennies????
At least those are cheaper.
The tough thing about designing the sets is how varied the views are. I for one can't see how anyone rates Archfiends above Dragoneye. To me DE is clearly better. The same holds true for Angelfire vs. Underdark.  I realize I'm in the minority here, but's that's how it is.Â
Â
In regards to Bloodwars, I'll judge it when I see it, as I do with every set.Â
I've been very disappointed with some of the more recent choices for pieces. There's too much pimpin' the new books, and poor choices for mounted minis. There is no way there should more mounted dinos than horses, that's just senseless. There's no way there should be more noncore PC races than core PC races. I know that they've started to address this recently(the WF problem), but it doesn't excuse the problem in the first place.
I use my minis for RPG, there's no skirmishing in my locale. | |
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trismegistus
Sneak
80 Posts
| | 10/21/2006 2:10 PM |
| Posted By Harneloot on 10/20/2006 10:31 PM
And go back to cans of soup and pennies???? Or spend the hundreds of dollars that otherwise would go to DDM on metal minis, which are most of the time much higher quality sculpts - the nature of the beast - and scale properly. Plus I know I'll only buy figures that I can use. "Official" doesn't mean much if it looks like junk (and I am generalizing here).
No question there are some great looking minis in BW, but instead of buying cases, maybe it'll be better to buy those particular singles and forget the rest. It's nice to have pre-painted minis, but I'd rather have a nice sculpt (and I include proper scale in that valuation) than a little bit of paint on a mini.
Again, I know not everyone is going to agree with me, but I also know that WotC folks read these boards too, and I'm going to add my voice to the other opinions floating around about the product. | |
Champion of the Nalfeshnee! Future Champion of the Atropal
Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu! | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 10/22/2006 12:27 AM |
| Posted By trismegistus on 10/21/2006 2:10 PM
Or spend the hundreds of dollars that otherwise would go to DDM on metal minis, which are most of the time much higher quality sculpts - the nature of the beast -Â and scale properly.
For me painting my own mini's isn't an option. I don't have the skill to paint mini's or the time.Â
So given that I can't paint my own I am happy to buy prepainted DDM mini's - and if the scale is slightly off that's ok. If I could paint my own metal mini's maybe I would care more about the scale. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/22/2006 9:18 AM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 10/21/2006 7:53 AM
There's too much pimpin' the new books, and poor choices for mounted minis. There is no way there should more mounted dinos than horses, that's just senseless. Â
While some of this post I disagree with, I have no poblem them trying to support the newer material, I really do agree with you on the mounted issue. I like wierd mounts, but there needs to be more horsemen. For the longest time I was using a centaur to represent characters on horses (I also primarily use them for RPG), and that shouldn't be the case. And now with this set we'll only have 2 minis with horses (I'm not counting the nightmare). We don't need a lot, but a some more does make sense.
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/22/2006 9:38 AM |
| While some of this post I disagree with, I have no poblem them trying to support the newer material, I really do agree with you on the mounted issue. I like wierd mounts, but there needs to be more horsemen. For the longest time I was using a centaur to represent characters on horses (I also primarily use them for RPG), and that shouldn't be the case. And now with this set we'll only have 2 minis with horses (I'm not counting the nightmare). We don't need a lot, but a some more does make sense
I came off a bit more negative than I intended to. I also hadn't realized there was a mounted mini in this set. For the most part my argument in that regard still holds. I was also using centaurs as mounted creatures. It's gotta be tough on R&D with so many opinions varying so widely. FWIW DDM are sorta like the band Rush to me, I don't hate any of it, but there are certain things I like a lot more than others. YMMV. | |
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 10/22/2006 3:53 PM |
| For anyone thinking that Blood War is just a set to hook us for
the price increase, I think you should consider that if it is a hook it
is one intended to keep DDM players from switching over to Dreamblade.Â
Also, I would like people to remember that each set of minis that they
release has a few different markets that it needs to appeal to, the
collectors, the skirmishers, and the RPG'ers. And what makes Blood War and hopefully the next sets so great is that they have finally found a good way to combine all of those 3 things into one set.
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I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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Thailfi
Sergeant
956 Posts
| | 10/22/2006 9:13 PM |
| WOTC would have never made the first Dreamblade mini if they thought they would be hurting DDM.
Way too much of the DDM market is comprised of RPG only users. They could scrap the game, stop putting cards and maps in the boxes and still sell enough DDM to make it viable.
Fighting off competition from Dreamblade was one of the last things on the developers minds.
One of the issues I face with these minis is that I have been buying since Harbinger. I have so many minis that I just can't justify buying as many as I used to even on the best of sets (and I think Blood War is the best of sets). It will be a lot easier for me to skip out on sets entirely in the future if I don't see the value in them.
I may not represent a ton of buyers, but I have to believe that people like me are on their mind, especially with the price increase. | |
Thailfi's Have/Want List
Thailfi's References | |
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Lord Devine
Skirmisher
1 Posts
| | 10/22/2006 9:37 PM |
| paranoia! The glass is either half empty, or half full, but either way its half a glass of water - looks like blood wars could be evian!
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berus316
Sergeant
663 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 10/23/2006 8:24 AM |
| My current ranking of the set is a 7.2 out of 10, which will change when I actually have them in my hands. But it is currently .1 higher than DQ which was my highest ranked set....
The set has an amazing Top 15, of which half of them I give 10/10
Horned Devil,Pit Fiend,Succubus, Vlaakith the Lich Queen, Howler, Owlbear Rager, Githyanki Dragon Knight
The bottom of the list pulls the average down a fair bit, but there is always pure crap in every set...
Living Flaming Sphere, Dwarf Sniper, Gnome Trickster, Soulknife Infiltrator, Kolyarut, Kobold Monk, Hammerer
Overall, I'm still very pleased with the set.... but kinda bummed because the final pieces that we learned about contained a fair number of crap pieces that I really wasn't interested in....
Already looking forward to Unhallowed.....
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Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
References http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12304
H/W List http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=berus316 | |
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berus316
Sergeant
663 Posts
Markham, Ontario Canada
| | 10/23/2006 8:25 AM |
| It's amazing how people's opinions vary so much...
Angelfire is the worst set to me.... bizarre.
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Champion of the Aspect of Gruumsh
Nemesis of Gnomes and Warforged
References http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12304
H/W List http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=berus316 | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 10/23/2006 9:57 AM |
| | Having finally reviewed the entire set list for Blood War I think this set will come off as meh for me. Maybe the skirmish side will have me looking ofr more but right now I find that I want only half the rares, a quater of the uncommons and only one common. Not what I would hope for a "best set ever". While some of the figs are ones I am so happy to finally get (Succubus, Pit Fiend, Ice Devil, L. Water Elemental, Green Slaad) there are so many I see no purpose in - Kobold Monk, greenspawn thingie, ... | |
Champion of Cyclops
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 10/23/2006 1:33 PM |
| Why is there almost always someone bashing the gnomes or kobolds?
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I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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Harneloot
Sergeant
575 Posts
| | 10/23/2006 3:07 PM |
| I have to agree with you Thailfi.
I have 4000+ minis. At some point I just won't need any more. I wonder what kinds of marketing decisions WoTC makes knowing this simple fact.
Also - at some point every monster will be made, some (many?) with more than one sculpt. What then? (and will we still have no soldier on horse at that point?)
:-) | |
"What is to give light must endure burning" -Viktor Frankl
Champion of the Large Myconid
Deacon of the ANY aligned Raistlin. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/23/2006 5:23 PM |
| Posted By nyjastul69 on 10/22/2006 9:38 AM I came off a bit more negative than I intended to. I also hadn't realized there was a mounted mini in this set. For the most part my argument in that regard still holds. I was also using centaurs as mounted creatures. It's gotta be tough on R&D with so many opinions varying so widely. FWIW DDM are sorta like the band Rush to me, I don't hate any of it, but there are certain things I like a lot more than others. YMMV.
If it matters, I didn't think it came off too negative. Frustrated, yeah. Negative, not so much.
It's funny your comment on R&D.  Last week I was talking with a store owner I do demos for and one of the things he mentioned was how customers don't know what they want. What he's seen is that sometimes when you give them exactly what they want, they don't buy it, and thers times you go directly aginst their wishes and it's the best thing ever. It must be hard.
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/23/2006 5:30 PM |
| Posted By Harneloot on 10/23/2006 3:07 PM
I have to agree with you Thailfi.
I have 4000+ minis. At some point I just won't need any more. I wonder what kinds of marketing decisions WoTC makes knowing this simple fact.
Probably that as older collectors stop because they have everything, newer collectors begin and go through the stages that many of us went through with Harbinger. I think any collectable game or hobby has this, not just DDM. Their issue is probably: How can we draw more people than will leave? This is probably where one source of power creep comes from.
PS I need to count my minis now.
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Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 10/23/2006 8:45 PM |
| Posted By LCS on 10/20/2006 10:21 PM Posted By Ridureyu on 10/20/2006 9:47 PM
I seem to remember "these are the paint masters" being ythe official word on Blood War gallery pics - unless the poster is separate from the website pics. Do any poster images look dramatically different from the previews? We were told that all of the images being shown in the previews were of the actual production models. Source: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/view/topic/forumid/51/postid/657136/Default.aspxPosted By lurkinglidda on 09/12/2006 12:53 PM
They're all production figures. Posted By lurkinglidda on 09/12/2006 1:20 PM
Mind you, I did notice some slight differences here and there.
Some of it has to do with lighting. Ex: the staff on the Ice Devil appears darker in the image due to shadows but it's actually silvery in person. My Vlaakith has more details than you can see in the article.
Some of it has to do with mass production: my succubus could use some lipstick. My Elf Warmage looks cleaner in person than in the pic.
I was actively looking for differences, trying to find an image that was obviously different than the production figure. There wasn't even one image that made me doubt I was seeing the real deal.
I hope they are production minis. Here is a comparsion with the nice looking lillend from WoTC preview: 
And one that KaeYoss posted that he saw in person.
Quailty of the camera probably has a lot to do with it too though. |
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 10/23/2006 8:46 PM |
| | Yeah, that looks more like lighting and camera quality than anything else. | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 10/23/2006 10:04 PM |
| I have 4000+ minis. At some point I just won't need any more. I wonder what kinds of marketing decisions WoTC makes knowing this simple fact. - Harneloot
Indeed, Wizards are very aware that people don't buy collectible games forever. As I recall, they expect the normal lifespan of the Magic game collector is about 2 years.
2 years. That's all. Think about that. Magic is 13 years old. It's now in its 7th "generation" of players. Heh. (I eased off several years ago, though I still pick up packs from time to time).
Set quality isn't something the designers try to get wrong. Consider Aberrations, which is generally considered one of the worst sets. At the time it began being designed, DDM was still pretty new.
The biggest thing that went wrong with Aberrations was one assumption: people would still be playing 100 point bands. Almost all of its flaws flowed from that.
I think that, looking back on it, the worst sets are the starter sets. Harbinger doesn't really hold up very well when you look back on it. War Drums doesn't fill me with enthusiasm.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/24/2006 5:37 AM |
| Originally posted by gss_000
If it matters, I didn't think it came off too negative. Frustrated, yeah. Negative, not so much.
You're 100% correct. I've been very frustrated with the last several sets, BW included. I'm just not as excited about it as most are. I don't use all that many outsiders in my RPG. Combined with what I consider some poor rarity choices, it's just not compelling. Archfiends wasn't compelling for me either. I'm in the minority on both counts. Different strokes for different folks and all that.
I think there is a burnout issue as well. I've only bought 3 boosters of Dairy Queen and traded for a few of the chase rares and it hasn't bothered me like it would have in the past. Pretty soon I'll be 2 fiull sets behind, and that has never happened before. Although with slight modifications this set would be much more compelling. I judge a set not on the rares, but on the U/C's, the large uncommons in particular. The must haves for me are Celestial Giant Stag Beetle and Large Water Elemental. This set would be much more desireable to me if the Owlbear and Fire Giant were uncommons. i think they really dropped the ball there. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 10/24/2006 5:57 PM |
| | I can see your point there. I still get excited but I can see how if I wasn't getting figures I could use I'd also be disillusioned. I hope Unhallowed comes off better for you. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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SpiderMines
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 10/24/2006 6:18 PM |
| Agreed. I'm fairly new to the game (around Angelfire/Underdark), but my biggest grief would have been those three things you named. And already they seem to be on the mend.
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well, so far im pretty happy. better costing dragons, more effective spells and special abilities. everything you could want to be done lately has been, and it seems generally that most of the complaints about the game have been being listened to
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- SpiderMines | |
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SpiderMines
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 10/24/2006 6:21 PM |
| I for one am all about the Kobolds. I dunno what it is, but I love the little buggers. Kobolds, Orcs, and Gnolls... just can't get enough of them. Â but I found myself hoarding less & less variety of minis from newer sets because they weren't useful to my RPG game. I already had most of those Uncommon/Common minis from previous sets. The minis that were useful were usually made into rares. I hardly kept multiples of U/C's because I don't need more Kobolds like I would Xorn's or whatever. And less than half of the rares would be ones I could use multiples of. But Blood War has all kinds of new creatures that a person can hoard multiples of...in both U/C's and rares!
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- SpiderMines | |
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