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Tyrant
Skirmisher
15 Posts
    
 | | 03/01/2007 10:46 AM |
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That's where we differ. I don't care if my Drizzts should lose 99% of their value. My minis weren't an investment. If someone comes here and tells everyone he got a Drizzt for 5$, I'm not jealous of him.
I think you are completely missing my point (or don't care about the value of things you own). If I were someone who finally decided to buy a Drizzt figure around December or so and payed $75 or more for it, I would probably be pretty upset that the figure will now be available at a lower price in a way that most people wouldn't have easily foreseen. If I just payed a lot of money for an Umber Hulk and the next day a reprint of Harbinger were announced, something that would definately not be expected by any reasonable person, I would be very upset. It's not about what teh figure may be worth if I resell it. It's about the fact that I just payed a high price for it and out of the blue it will likely be worth far less than what I just payed in a very short time. I'm sorry if you can't see how that would upset someone.
A reasonable price. i.e. the price of a good rare of the newer sets.
Example : I'm not ready to pay 50+ $ for an elf pyromancer. But I will pay a maximum of 20$ for it.
Then I can see why you are all for reprints. You have unrealistic expectations of the value of figures produced in a limited run a few years after they were produced.
You're just forgetting an important thing : the game develops because of new players. Older players leave the scene eventually ; to survive, the game needs new blood, and WotC had better cater for the newer customers, or the game will quickly die.
The game needs new blood. It doesn't need it at the cost of large chunks of the old. You seem to have completely skipped over my comments about another companies attempts to appease new players that more or less decimated their player base. There are no masses of new players just dying to get into game and the only thing holding them back is a lack of Harbinger figures. Just as there were no masses of new players waiting to get into Mechwarrior and the only thing holding them back was the fact that they couldn't get older sets (which they could and still can). They retired older sets and nearly destroyed their own game. It did destroy Mage Knight (other mistakes paved the way, but retirement was the final nail in the coffin). So I believe to chase after new players at the cost of existing ones is quite reckless. There are other ways to get new players in.
Once again we'll disagree here :
- I'll say it again, I don't care for the 2nd-market price of my minis.
- AND I'm not only interested by the expensive rares. There are many commons and uncommons of the 5 firsts sets that I'd love to get in numbers. In fact I'm even more interested by these.
(and before you answer "trade !", sorry but I can't trade easily (stupid postage costs, etc.))
I'm aware that some have no interest in a secondary market. I think it's a mistake to seek it's destruction. I would like to be able to rid myself of unwanted figures and duplicates I don't need. If there were no secondary market value for these figures, I wouldn't buy them in the numbers I do and would probably just buy complete sets. I know I am not the only person who sells their extra figures. Again, you start destroying that and everyone should really start to wonder why they are buying randomized products (and of course paying what they pay for what are more or less plastic army men with cards). The two tend to go together. It's clear you and others just don't like the distribution system and it effects (high secondary market value for some figures).
By now, you probably got the fact that I don't care of second market values... And i'm not the only one.
And you're not the only one who probably didn't see the point in what I wrote. The point is that's why the majority wanted a reprint. That's very likely why a majority want a reprint of older DDM sets. The effect is that Clone Strike is sitting on shelves. Just sitting there because with the main reason to want the figures gone (secondary market value), not many people have any desire to buy them. That's not good. Product just sitting on shelves is never good. It makes those who put it in their stores wonder if there isn't a better use for shelf space and order less of all future sets (which will eventually cause more limited production runs if it continues, which will of course cause high secondary values for figures again). Do it with enough sets (like say, the first 4 DDM sets) and retailers will have had enough. Don't kid yourself into thinking everyone is just dying to get their hands on mountains of Harbinger commons and uncommons.
No. See comment above.
Speculators want only the expensive rares.
No, the majority who want reprints, that's what they want. Don't be naive. If all they wanted were the commons and uncommons, they can be bought at any number of websites or ebay. A few, like the drow, are higher priced than I would pay, but they are available.
It depends on the quantity produced. If WotC produce the right number of them (enough to make them reasonably available, but not too much to saturate the market), there will be no problem.
They have to produce a sufficient quantity to warrant a reprint. Also, to keep the cost at at least current booster cost. Again, look at Clone Strike (made by WotC). Huge demand for the figures in it and lots of people wanted a reprint. Now it clogs shelves. The same scenario will in all likely hood apply to any DDM reprint of the first few sets. The figures are more or less inferior in lots of ways. Many of the figures can be bought for reasonable prices. It's only a handful of figures that command rediculous prices. People only want the rares that are valuable now. Any other figures can be bought right now for a reasonable price. You are likely the one in a million who doesn't want them just for the rares.
see comment above. You seem to think that the game has many older players clinging to their sets or speculattors , and a handful of newcomers only. You'd better be wrong, or DDM is dead VERY soon.
I think the number of new players is far less than the number of existing players who have been playing for several sets. To think otherwise is absurd. Attracting new players is always good. But there are ways of doing it that don't upset a large number of existing players. Again, what it wrong with resculpting and restatting older figures in current sets? How is this not a better solution?
But we never asked for these sets to be available 24/7. The best strategy would be to make small production runs every year, with rotation of the sets. I.e. redo harbinger and dragoneye in 2007, archfiends and GoL in 2008, harbinger again in 2009, etc. (as it looks like the other sets are less in demand than the 4 first ones).
A dozen quickly-selling harbinger boosters would not take too much shelf space.
First, yes that is what you are asking in the long run. Second, the other sets aren't as in demand because they are more or less available right now. In another year of so, Deathknell will likely be added to the list. Then Underdark (for another reprint) and possibly War Drums. As time goes on, other sets will be added to the list and then people will whine that they can't find Harbinger bacuse it's Deathknell's turn to be reprinted this year. Don't you see how this just becomes an endless circle as more new players join the game? At some point the line needs to be drawn or stores will be asked to stock 12 sets at once and that won't happen.
I think you (and others) put a wrong signification on the word "collectible". I suspect that WotC meant "collect the whole set" and not "collect for speculation". On this forum, we all are hardcore fans who buy by the case, but MANY WotC customers only buy a couple of boosters from time to time (and I know some). I suspect they are the people WotC would like to see buy more and, "collect"... each set.
Collectible implies that there are a limited number of something. If you go back and continually reprint sets, that ceases to be true. And again, I didn't say collect for speculation. You don't like the fact that older figures, which had a limited run a few years ago, now have a high secondary market value. As a consequence some hate the secondary market and wish all figures were dirt cheap. I get it. I think you need to really think about the implications of flooding the market with older figures. My concerns have to do with the survival of the game primarily. The older figures have value because they are rare, and in some cases they are the only way to get some creatures. The solution isn't reprinting everything. That leads to lots of boosters sitting on shelves and crash in secondary value (I know you don't care, but it really is a bad thing). What do you think the company will start to do once these boosters just sit on shelves? What will stores do? How is that solution in any way better than simply resculpting and restatting older figures to put into new sets? Solve all of the problems and simply release an all star set of a number of figures from the first 4 sets resculpted and restatted.
That's only your opinion. (talking of the last sentence, as it appears I can't put it in bold, for some reason - probably the case for other sentences in your post, too).
The only other people who would complain about redoing older figures with new sculpts and stats are those who want the originals to drop in value because they really do care about the secondary and they want THAT specific figure. If they just wanted some version of the figure, then a new one will be fine. If they want a figure worth trying to play, the new one will likely be superior. So again, who would have reasonable complaints at that point aside from people who just hate the fact that something produced in limited numbers a couple of years ago has (sarcasm)suprisingly(/sarcasm) raised in value?
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Tyrant
Skirmisher
15 Posts
| | 03/01/2007 11:04 AM |
| As far as scenario packs, I would personally like to see Dragonlance scenario packs. Particularly Raistlin and Cyan as it would also serve to give us a green dragon. I'm all for Eberron (maybe a box of warforged as a marketing experiment to see how popular they really are) or Forgotten Realms (there have been several video games and novels set there that could yield any number of characters) or Greyhawk (Temple of Elemental Evil or any number of other adventures, just make sure it's marked as actual Greyhawk) or any others.
I'm not too into the idea of releasing hordes of figures in boxes like this. Or at least not ones that are already available. If they want to make an orc warband, give us orcs we don't have. With new stats and sculpts. Any creatures released in these sets should have new sculpts and stats.
Of course, I would like to see other monsters as well (Hydra, etc). Maybe do what others are suggesting and release huges this way. The distribution in huge sets is typically bad, so this could provide an alternate means to release them. Of course they could just try to find a better distribution scheme within huge sets.
I really like the idea of making some of these based around specific adventures like Red Hand of Doom. I don't RPG, only skirmish, but I would like to see named characters come out a little more often and this helps get around the fact that more than one is usually useless. I read up on some of the uniques to see who they are and some of them have really interesting back stories. So, when I read the RPG boards and people talk about the adventures WotC (and others before them) have published, I want to see some of those characters and creatures released and this would be a perfect way to do it. It will also help further tie the two product lines together and hopefully get more crossover. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/01/2007 11:11 AM |
| | I would only want scenario packs if they contained huge, or bigger, minis. I wouldn't be interested in one that contained only large and smaller minis. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/01/2007 6:16 PM |
| | I agree, using the scenario packs for larges would be a waste of the opportunity the packs provide. It's easy to put large pieces into existing boosters. The scenario packs should be an opportunity to make the pieces that are hard to put in boosters because of the difficulty of sculpt, it may not be the best for random distribution, etc. | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/03/2007 12:38 PM |
| Posted By Tyrant on 03/01/2007 10:46 AM
That's where we differ. I don't care if my Drizzts should lose 99% of their value. My minis weren't an investment. If someone comes here and tells everyone he got a Drizzt for 5$, I'm not jealous of him.
I think you are completely missing my point (or don't care about the value of things you own)... (bla bla bla...)
I was intending to give a lenghty answer to your post, but seeing your condescending tone (I'm naive, unrealistic, kidding myself etc.) I won't lose 1 hour to write it (at the very least, seeing the number of questionable statements you wrote). Would be pointless anyway since we obviously won't agree.
I'll just say this (sums up most of the topic) : you seem to think a very large majority of the DDM players are mostly interested by the second market price of their minis, and will leave the scene and kill DDM if reprints of the first sets are made. That's where you're wrong.
Oh, and just one thing : though I didn't check Madda's guide for a few weeks, the dragoneye black dragon is probably priced around 40$. I know you certainly won't believe me, but I just got one 2 weeks ago for 15$;
I'm a HAPPY unrealistic guy !
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Tyrant
Skirmisher
15 Posts
| | 03/03/2007 10:25 PM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 03/03/2007 12:38 PM I was intending to give a lenghty answer to your post, but seeing your condescending tone (I'm naive, unrealistic, kidding myself etc.) I won't lose 1 hour to write it (at the very least, seeing the number of questionable statements you wrote). Would be pointless anyway since we obviously won't agree.
I'll just say this (sums up most of the topic) : you seem to think a very large majority of the DDM players are mostly interested by the second market price of their minis, and will leave the scene and kill DDM if reprints of the first sets are made. That's where you're wrong.
Oh, and just one thing : though I didn't check Madda's guide for a few weeks, the dragoneye black dragon is probably priced around 40$. I know you certainly won't believe me, but I just got one 2 weeks ago for 15$;
I'm a HAPPY unrealistic guy !
If you truly believe most people who want the reprints want mountains of commons and uncommons (which they will get since they are buying boosters like any other set), then yes you are naive. There are numerous sites and ebay where they can be bought. With a handful of exceptions, they aren't overpriced. The only figures that can't easily be bought in multiples (without breaking the bank) are a few rares. Again, I ask, what is wrong with redoing them with new stats and scultps? I haven't seen any response to this suggestion. Everyone is happy with this solution. Reproducing the older sets in any real quantity simply won't work. If WotC thought it would and given how much people all but beg for it (like Clone Strike, where they obviously learned a lesson) don't you think they would have done it by now? How are stores supposed to realistically stock all of these sets all at once? How many people wil complain that the same figures that cost $10 a box now cost $15? They weren't improved in anyway, and the cost of the molds has already been considered with the original run.
By the way, if you don't care about the secondary market, why do you care that that black dragon cost you $15 and is worth $40? I don't care and it only helps prove my point about people only wanting the rares no matter what they say.
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/04/2007 10:04 AM |
| Posted By Tyrant on 03/03/2007 10:25 PM Posted By PaSquall on 03/03/2007 12:38 PM I was intending to give a lenghty answer to your post, but seeing your condescending tone (I'm naive, unrealistic, kidding myself etc.) I won't lose 1 hour to write it (at the very least, seeing the number of questionable statements you wrote). Would be pointless anyway since we obviously won't agree.
I'll just say this (sums up most of the topic) : you seem to think a very large majority of the DDM players are mostly interested by the second market price of their minis, and will leave the scene and kill DDM if reprints of the first sets are made. That's where you're wrong.
Oh, and just one thing : though I didn't check Madda's guide for a few weeks, the dragoneye black dragon is probably priced around 40$. I know you certainly won't believe me, but I just got one 2 weeks ago for 15$;
I'm a HAPPY unrealistic guy ! If you truly believe most people who want the reprints want mountains of commons and uncommons
YOU said "mountains", not me.
I said that people want rares at a reasonable prices (read my first post again).
And yes, some people would probably be interested by reprints of some commons and uncommons (though I'll concede that it may not be a majority. But these people buy cases...)
(which they will get since they are buying boosters like any other set), then yes you are naive. There are numerous sites and ebay where they can be bought. With a handful of exceptions, they aren't overpriced. The only figures that can't easily be bought in multiples (without breaking the bank) are a few rares. Again, I ask, what is wrong with redoing them with new stats and scultps? I haven't seen any response to this suggestion.
Because the answer is obvious (except for you) : WotC will never redo all of them.
Oh and BTW there are people who prefer the older sculpts to the newer (see recent D-beast comments about size creep)...
Everyone is happy with this solution.
YOU are happy. Everyone isn't.
Reproducing the older sets in any real quantity simply won't work.
It will.
If WotC thought it would and given how much people all but beg for it (like Clone Strike, where they obviously learned a lesson) don't you think they would have done it by now?
Then why did Lidda just say that they might do it in the future ?
By the way, if you don't care about the secondary market, why do you care that that black dragon cost you $15 and is worth $40?
Either you're dumb, or you're trying to get up my nose.
YOU said that my expectations were UNREALISTIC (like getting a 50$ rare for 20$).
It just did happen (whether you like it or not).
SO I JUST PROVED YOU WRONG, THAT'S ALL.
I don't care...
You don't care about the prices ? What a sudden change of mind !
Last post on this thread for me, I won't lose one more minute on it. You can post as much as you want now and have the final say (good for your ego, but that won't make you right). Bye bye. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Tyrant
Skirmisher
15 Posts
| | 03/04/2007 1:05 PM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 03/04/2007 10:04 AM
Last post on this thread for me, I won't lose one more minute on it. You can post as much as you want now and have the final say (good for your ego, but that won't make you right). Bye bye.
You storm off in a huff (while getting the last word and saying I have a need to get the last word for my ego, cute) and I'm the one with the ego?
I still haven't seen anything to say that remaking the older figures isn't the better idea. A few comments about the scale of one or two figures isn't a problem. Outside of continued calls for those figures to be made as uncommons (something that still won't happen if the early sets are reprinted, they're still rares) and the occasional complaint about the fact that the Red Dragon has a Githyanki on his back, everyone else seems to be relatively happy. People loved the Uncommon Troll. People loved a new Fire Giant. Most people seem to be okay with the Displacer Beast. Everyone seems to want a new Umber Hulk. A few want WotC to make an irrational business decision so they can get figures for dirt cheap. Assuming you or anyone else who wants this will respond, let me ask you a real important question. If they were to reprint Harbinger (and it still an if, reread what Lidda wrote and I don't think you will find her saying that they are for sure reprinting anything), how many boosters and/or cases would you buy? Would you buy any real quantity, or would you just buy singles when the prices start dropping? I am truly honest in my desire to know this. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/04/2007 2:17 PM |
| Please remember: Be polite.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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