Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
    
Adelaide
 | | 03/07/2007 8:42 PM |
| On unhallowed eve, I'm reflecting back on blood war.
Is it the best set we have seen.
The controversies that have been with the last few sets seem to be lacking in blood war. Aside from the complaints about scale, there didn't seem to be any angst about it.
The price rise was nasty, but didnt attract as much ire as I expected.
No real cries of power creep. Unlike Tordek WoDQ among others. A few peices that really changed the meta around, but nothing that seemed completely outrageous which made all before redundant.
Though the demons were better costed than ever before.
Storm enabling CG to strike back, shadow dancing being a popular pastime. Many more options opened up for all factions.
Red hand sorcerer, Fire forge priest, etc.
Having so many classic devils & demons, and with a marked change from wardrums, pretty darn decent paint jobs. Though many early & still occurring complaints about the Marilith covered torso and demon dog face.
The cultist of blood vol being perhaps the best common design and quality ever imo.
If you didnt like the devils/demons and other planar types there were some great PC types, otherwsie slim pickings.
Distribution seemed fair, no fouls with cases having excessive dupes.
If notthe best set, the least complained about? Not being around for archfiends and before, not sure how common complaints were back then. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 03/08/2007 1:22 AM |
| I think Bloodwar is the best set so far. I use the mini's mostly for RPG and was thrilled with the setlist and the quality of the mini's.
Obviously my opinion is just my opinion and completely subjective - other people will have their own favorites. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3463 Posts
Netherlands
| | 03/08/2007 2:45 AM |
| I still think that Giants of Legends would be my favorite set for RPG.
For Skirmish it probably is Bloodwar though.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/08/2007 4:45 AM |
| Still Harbinger for me. It does have two unfair advantages though. One, it was the first set, so many of the most iconic pieces had to show up. Second, it has the advantage of being an 80 figure set - so even more slots to fit in all of those iconic creatures.
For skirmish, I haven't really had a chance to do a head-to-head between Underdark and Blood War, but both seem very strong. Only time will tell, but my gut tells me that Underdark is still a little stronger. So many standouts: Death Slaad, Asp Kord, Dark Naga, Duergar Champion, Half-Ogre Barb, Gith Monk, Helmed Horror, MDP, Rikka, & Marut. Kord & Marut bands brought titans to the forefront. At one time, Helmed Horrors were considered broken. Death Slaads were a great counter to the powerful lawful bands. Duergar Champions gave LE a legit multi-hitter band without all of the gimmicks associated with a Chraal (req commander, reliance on energy). Rikka's almost always good in epic. Gith Monks won at GenCon. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/08/2007 4:59 AM |
| | For RPG there are at least 4 superior sets, Harbinger being #1 of course. | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 5:58 AM |
| Finish this sentence in 10 words or less I really like Blood Wars because...
There are some solid, solid pieces in that set. It comes a close second to Underdark for me, however, which had just some ace pieces. Other may disagree.... | |
My Trading Thread | |
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hazel monday
Warrior
338 Posts
Baltimore MD
| | 03/08/2007 6:50 AM |
| | Wardrums was a better RPG set, but Bloodwars just had those 2 bomb rares: Pit fiend and Horned Devil.
Personally, I think GOL was the best set so far, but just by a very narrow margin. | |
Champion of Phanatons. | |
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hexus
Skirmisher
24 Posts
Winchester, VA
| | 03/08/2007 6:50 AM |
| | Both sets had inevitables . . . so I'm happy (also Pit Fiend and Balor) | |
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Foo Fighter
Warrior
188 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 7:51 AM |
| Bloodwar also stands up pretty well for Skirmish. Below is a casual comparison of pieces that are regularly used in strong warbands.
BOODWARAcheron Goblin Bralani Eladrin Dragonmark Heir of Deneith Elf Dragonkith Fire Giant Forgepriest Gnome Trickster Kobold Monk Maug Marilith Mezzoloth Shadowdancer Storm Silverhand Valenar Nomad Charger Greenspawn Sneak UNDERDARKDuergar Champion Helmed Horror Iron Golem Justicator Marut Aspect of Kord Rikka Angelic Avenger Githzerai Monk Death Slaad Elminster of Shadowdale Kobold Miner Balor Wizard Tactician WARDRUMSSacred Watcher Orc Wardrummer Shuluth, Archvillain Steelheart Archer Warforged Bodyguard War Troll Arcane Ballista Aspect of Hextor ~Foo Fighter~ | |
A Repo man is ALWAYS intense. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 03/08/2007 8:59 AM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 03/08/2007 4:45 AM
Still Harbinger for me. It does have two unfair advantages though. One, it was the first set, so many of the most iconic pieces had to show up. Second, it has the advantage of being an 80 figure set - so even more slots to fit in all of those iconic creatures.
Totally agree. For RPG, doesn't get much better than Harb. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 03/08/2007 9:15 AM |
| I still like underdark the best. I think it had the best variety and really stands out. Blood war is definitely second.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 03/08/2007 9:21 AM |
| Harbinger did have a lot of the iconic monsters in it but I don't find myself using them if I have other options. If a centaur is going to show up in one of my games I use one of the new ones with the better sculpts and paint job. If I need a mind flayer I use the Mind Flayer Telepath. My players fought a group of trolls last week. I used 4 Troll Slashers and a War Troll as the leader. The Harbinger Troll? That was the leaders girlfriend because it's considerably smaller than the others. Pretty much the only Harbinger mini's that I consistently use are Displacer Beasts, Dire Boars and Umber Hulks.
Harbinger had a lot of useful monsters but they made the newer versions look better (except for the Displacer Beast - I'll still use the Harbinger one). If I'm not using the Harbinger mini's for my RPG game then other sets must be better - at least for me. Your results may vary. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 10:14 AM |
| Best set ever IMO.
Tons of iconic monsters and useful for RPG. Good commons. Correct choice of PCs and NPCs. Good paintjobs overall. Only a handful of bizarre minis I couldn't use in my games.
The only drawbacks I can find are the marilith sculpt (still pissed by it), chasme being rare (no swarm for me  ) and a few bad paintjobs on some rares (succubus face, etc.) But these are minor problems (errr, except the marilith).
I took into account the fact that hundreds of minis have been produced, and it will be more and more difficult to produce great sets with a "newness" factor (not sure everyone gets me... Harbinger has a great RPG selection of minis, but it was easy : it was the first one...)
So best set ever. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Oryan77
Sergeant
959 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 10:24 AM |
| Blood War is my favorite set so far. It's such an all around great batch of minis! I also still think that it's no coincidence that the price hike happened with Blood War. Right after a higher priced huge set, first non huge set to have clear plastic, lots of sought after minis that are useful in RPG? WotC knew Blood War would be a hit. If they did the price hike with Unhallowed after Blood War, people would have complained louder about the price hike.
The price hike isn't a big deal though because the minis are better quality. My gripe comes from being an online seller. Distributors will no longer sell to non B&M stores, and the B&M stores that also sell online now sell new minis at half of what they used to sell for. So case prices went up & singles marketprice went down...I would barely break even if I pay those prices for cases & sell them for current marketprice.
People have been asking me when I'll have Unhallowed singles for sale...I haven't even bought any cases yet, and that's why. I'm trying to find a cheaper source to get cases from so I can lower my own prices, no luck so far.
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Miniatures for sale *more added 11/26/08*: Click here
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/08/2007 10:39 AM |
| Posted By Star on 03/08/2007 9:21 AM
Harbinger did have a lot of the iconic monsters in it but I don't find myself using them if I have other options. If a centaur is going to show up in one of my games I use one of the new ones with the better sculpts and paint job. If I need a mind flayer I use the Mind Flayer Telepath. My players fought a group of trolls last week. I used 4 Troll Slashers and a War Troll as the leader. The Harbinger Troll? That was the leaders girlfriend because it's considerably smaller than the others. Pretty much the only Harbinger mini's that I consistently use are Displacer Beasts, Dire Boars and Umber Hulks.
Harbinger had a lot of useful monsters but they made the newer versions look better (except for the Displacer Beast - I'll still use the Harbinger one). If I'm not using the Harbinger mini's for my RPG game then other sets must be better - at least for me. Your results may vary.
Agreed. The newer minis often have nicer sculpts and definitely better paint jobs than their Harbinger versions. But, if you look at what you just said, you are indirectly saying that Harbinger is still the most "useful" (if not nicest looking) set. You are comparing pieces from many different sets (MFT for Aber, Centaurs from DK & BW, Troll Slasher from ANGLFR) to pieces from just one set - Harbinger. It seems that no one set can do the job of properly replacing Harbinger for RPG purposes. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2731 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 03/08/2007 11:00 AM |
| | I can't help but judge the the sets 'in context'. By that I mean what minis have already been released, in what rarity slot, and what I think should be included in the set. I doubt a set will ever be better than Har in my mind. I also have to admit that I've swung to the side of judging sets based on the uncommons and commons slots, moreso the uc's. The problem with BW is that there are too many chase rares in the set and not enough chase pieces in the other 2 slots. | |
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Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 03/08/2007 11:07 AM |
| I understand what you're saying and it's true that no one set has replaced Harbinger for RPG purposes.
But when I look at the number of mini's from Harbinger that I can consistently use versus the number of mini's that I use from more recent sets, Harbinger pales in comparision. There isn't a set with all the mini's that Harbinger had but there are several sets with overall more useful mini's to me. If they had never resculpted or released newer versions of the Harbinger mini's then that wouldn't be true. I would still use a Harbinger Centaur as a Centaur - not as the Centaur Hero's teenage son. The Troll would be a troll - not the War Trolls wife.
I love Harbinger. If it wasn't for Harbinger then there wouldn't be a Blood War or Underdark. Harbinger started it all. But as each set is released with new mini's and newer versions of Harbinger mini's that are bigger and with better paint jobs the usefulness of the Harbinger mini's decreases for me. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 03/08/2007 11:22 AM |
| Hands down for me. Blood War is the best set ever. I've never been much for Harbinger. Bought a few boosters when it came out and got an almost decent looking Troll, a Minotaur that didn't look like a Minotaur(still haven't gotten this right), an Aspect of Ben Grimm and a Medusa that despite having only about 4 paint colors, had 1/2 of them misaligned. Not to mention the general terribleness of the Medusa overall.
Harbinger may have started it all, but it's not my holy grail. I was so disappointed in the minis I got that I didn't buy another booster for over a year.....and missed out on some good sets. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 03/08/2007 11:57 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 03/08/2007 11:22 AM
Harbinger may have started it all, but it's not my holy grail. I was so disappointed in the minis I got that I didn't buy another booster for over a year.....and missed out on some good sets.
Send me those cruddy pieces of sh** then. Gimme, gimme, gimme. I'll take all those nasty awful Harbinger pieces off your hands.
Oh yeah, that LRD?? What a turd, right? Send me all you gots.  | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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bielmic
Sneak
68 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 12:26 PM |
| | i think it's the best since harbinger. my perspective is that of a player who uses them for rpgs twice as much as skirmish. this set it the one that features the most monster manual 1 creatures since harbinger (and let's face it, that book is the most popular in the MM series) and that alone makes it more useful for RPG purposes. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/08/2007 12:32 PM |
| Posted By bielmic on 03/08/2007 12:26 PM
i think it's the best since harbinger. my perspective is that of a player who uses them for rpgs twice as much as skirmish. this set it the one that features the most monster manual 1 creatures since harbinger (and let's face it, that book is the most popular in the MM series) and that alone makes it more useful for RPG purposes.
For sure. I would rather have just the creatures from the MM, than the rest of the creatures from MMII-MMIV combined. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 03/08/2007 12:46 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 03/08/2007 11:57 AM Posted By Wraithborne on 03/08/2007 11:22 AM
Harbinger may have started it all, but it's not my holy grail. I was so disappointed in the minis I got that I didn't buy another booster for over a year.....and missed out on some good sets. Send me those cruddy pieces of sh** then. Gimme, gimme, gimme. I'll take all those nasty awful Harbinger pieces off your hands. Oh yeah, that LRD?? What a turd, right? Send me all you gots.
If you really want an Aspect of Ben Grimm, Axe Sister, Evoker's Apprentice, Gnome Recruit, 2 Wood elf Skirmishers and a half-Orc fighter that bad, I'd be glad to trade somewhat in your favor to be rid of the ugly things.
And you're welcome to every LRD that I own. Not sure what an LRD has to do with Harb tho. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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Username
Warlord
5692 Posts
| | 03/08/2007 12:55 PM |
| | I think it's a tie between UD and BW as my favorites sets. | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 03/08/2007 1:19 PM |
| | I need to add a bit to my first statement. Yes, I still think BW is the best, followed by UD and AF. I do, however, see BW for what it really was. Nothing but a 1 time thing to placate people and allow them to justify the price increase. Did it work? Well, I basically got my BW for free, with only an investment of time and took home a tidy profit to boot, so not on me, but for the most part, it seems that it did. The next time we see a setlist anywhere near as good as BW, boosters will be $17.99 and 24.99 for Huge sets. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 03/08/2007 1:38 PM |
| | Other than Harbringer and the last two sets, it's hard for me to really distinguish the sets. But I will say I do know I had my best reaction overall to all the Blood War pieces. Many times, I have somewhat mixed feelings to sets. I think individual pieces look cool, but after a time my interest wanes. I'm still ga-ga over several Blood War pieces even after completed that set. There were pieces in Harb that I really disliked, but I still use a lot of pieces from that to this day. For Blood War, other than the Chasme, I think the set rocks. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
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Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/08/2007 3:34 PM |
| Having only brought bits of harbinger as singles (and increasingly over priced singles :| ) I guess I come at it from difeent viewpoint.
The set list of it is fantastic, but quailty and scale issues also strike me as downsides, and part of the reason I think blood war is a solid set is the lack of negatives attached to it. YMMMV.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Olaf the Stout
Sergeant
404 Posts
Adelaide, Australia
| | 03/08/2007 4:30 PM |
| Could someone fill me in on the controversy surrounding the Marilith mini? I have heard people talking about it a couple of times but I still don't know what it's all about. Olaf the Stout | |
My Trade Thread
12 Trades Completed - Bert the Troll, Keoki, elf_ranger, kalle, Dropbear, twilightraven, SkYlyn3, Monolthicus (x2), qillan_dvra, xuthal, MMT 2007
My Reference Thread | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 03/08/2007 4:36 PM |
| Posted By Olaf the Stout on 03/08/2007 4:30 PM Could someone fill me in on the controversy surrounding the Maralith mini? I have heard people talking about it a couple of times but I still don't know what it's all about. Olaf the Stout
In short
- it's not topless (and has full breastplate over bikini/artfull pose
- it's got an ugly face
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 03/08/2007 4:37 PM |
| Posted By Olaf the Stout on 03/08/2007 4:30 PM Could someone fill me in on the controversy surrounding the Maralith mini? I have heard people talking about it a couple of times but I still don't know what it's all about. Olaf the Stout
It has no belly scales and it's face looks ridiculous. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 03/09/2007 9:34 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 03/08/2007 4:37 PM Posted By Olaf the Stout on 03/08/2007 4:30 PM Could someone fill me in on the controversy surrounding the Maralith
mini? I have heard people talking about it a couple of times but
I still don't know what it's all about. Olaf the Stout It has no belly scales and it's face looks ridiculous.
And the presence of the very well-designed Lillend (in the same set, no
less!) makes the "hillbilly" Marilith completely unjustifiable. =)
Cheers,
Dagonet
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"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| | 03/09/2007 10:45 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 03/08/2007 1:19 PM
I need to add a bit to my first statement. Yes, I still think BW is the best, followed by UD and AF. I do, however, see BW for what it really was. Nothing but a 1 time thing to placate people and allow them to justify the price increase.
I'm really hoping this is not the case, but I am inclined to agree. Unhallowed was slightly less than stellar, it's great for limited skirmish, I'm very much looking forward to playing again tonight - and it has some really great pieces, but... it's no Bloodwar.
Shoe had mentioned that Unhallowed was not his most favourite set, however, he did say that Night Below (the set after Unhallowed) was one of his favourites. So, let's see what wotc design leader thinks is a really good set, and then we can decide if it was just the price increase that caused the Bloodwar. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
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Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6843 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 03/09/2007 12:31 PM |
| | I don't think Blood War was the best set ever. (Skirmish side is not very relevant for me.) I am not interested in all the demons/devils that infested the set. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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E Thug of the
Round Table
Wolfgang
Warlord
6637 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 03/09/2007 10:09 PM |
| | i have to say that blood war and angelfire are the best sets for me UH will be near the bottom just ahead of UD | |
Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Completed trades: (94)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
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