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Subject: Campaign Pack: The Epic Card Gripes!

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dj-chuckles
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03/13/2007 3:52 AM  
Ok, The month of the release... what do we get. Stone Giant Runecarver Epic Cards? For this set!? Make the epic card in the actual set. Give us old epics! There are still tons of Epics that should be made are arent even out yet.

Aspect of Demogorgon
Aspect of Orcus
Aspect of Bane
(Aspects are god-avatars... they should have epics)
There are a ton more epics that could be made and I'm sure this community could create a big list of epics wanted!

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03/13/2007 4:03 AM  
WOTC's reasoning probably is that releasing an epic card from Unhallowed helps to generate interest in it. If someone gets a Stone Giant Runecarver epic card at their FLGS but doesn't actually own the mini for it perhaps they will buy boosters until they do get one. That may seem slightly far fetched but an outside chance of helping their Unhallowed sales is better than no chance of helping their sales - and they know that releasing an epic Aspect of Orcus card doesn't help them at all.

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03/13/2007 6:51 AM  
I'm with the OP on this one. Getting epic cards for sets as they come out sucks. Throw the old dogs some bones, finish what was started please. Thanks kindly.


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Plane of Shadow

03/13/2007 9:01 AM  
I agree. We need more older EPICs not brand new minis getting them.

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/13/2007 9:06 AM  
I'll throw my voice in the hat as well. Please, WotC, let's get some epic cards for those older minis. We have been your longest serving DDM customers.

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jacksonm
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River City

03/13/2007 9:08 AM  
While I want some of those older figures to get cards too I can see their point. Cards for minis that everyone can potentialy get do more to grow the brand so to speak.

Still, they could be doing a better job of balancing both sides.

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Calgary, Alberta Canada

03/13/2007 10:05 AM  
WoTc already said they will/can reprint any set they want

so release some older mini epic cards then they will for sure sell the boosters.

all the aspects need "good" epic cards

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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

03/13/2007 10:21 AM  
I'm with the OP on this one as well.   When I got the rune carver card at the tournament on saturday the day after the set released I was like wtf.Â

We need some epic cards for older figures like the aspects. 

Sure there might be a slight intrest created by the card but there is also people like me that feel slighted that the run carver card wasn't in the boosters to begin with. 

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MackeyJ
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03/13/2007 10:55 AM  
EPIC Aspect of Demogorgon
EPIC Aspect of Orcus
EPIC Aspect of Bane

Bring em on! These 3 are long overdue. Git er done WoTC!

John

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03/13/2007 1:01 PM  
Dude, how about an Epic Red Wizard (with circle magic)? Of course, it'll probably suck worse than the original Red Wizard card.

I'd love to see Epic Ialdabode, too, especially now that the Large Astral Construct is out. You could do some sweet new stuff with high level psionics, like create astral constructs.

As long as there's an Epic Vlaakith, it wouldn't hurt to make an Epic Lich Necromancer (whose commander effect could maybe generate more powerful undead )

Epic Eye of Gruumsh and/or Orc Champion? That would be cool.

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03/13/2007 1:37 PM  
I don't keep track of epic cards, but what were the last few months' epic cards? Were they from other sets or blood war? If from other sets, is it unreasonable to have one card in the month of release of a set be from that set before returning to the old pattern? I can definitely see why people are annoyed, as newer sets shouldn't need epic cards as the older sets do, though.

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River City

03/13/2007 1:47 PM  
3 of the last 5 (Kolayrut, Lord of Blades, and GDK) were from Blood War, 1 from Angelfire (Archmage), and one from Achfriends (Drizzt) which was put out for 2 months.

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03/13/2007 1:49 PM  
How about both in a retailer pack? I've heard both sides of this arguement and I agree with both. How much can these things cost to produce? I can hand out one of each to each player at the tournaments I run. People with complete older sets get something unique, while not denying newcomers prizes that count for them as well. And heck, since wishes are free today, how about a re-costed Drider Sorceror card, and a puppy.

Epic cards old,
Epic cards new,
Repainted minis
in cloaks of blue.

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ScruffyRanger
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Central Coast AUSTRALIA

03/13/2007 2:04 PM  
I agree also with dj-chuckles. We need retro epics. Starting with the top cards from each set. Stat!

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froffenhoffer
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03/13/2007 2:19 PM  
1: whats an OP?
2: Bring on the epic FB with GREAT CLEAVE! gotta love that 5 foot step ad infinitum..
And, i dont think that only producing older epics is good, as there will then be some players that cant use them.. I mean what do i do with ma epic drizzt?

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jacksonm
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River City

03/13/2007 2:25 PM  
Posted By froffenhoffer on 03/13/2007 2:19 PM
1: whats an OP?
2: Bring on the epic FB with GREAT CLEAVE! gotta love that 5 foot step ad infinitum..
And, i dont think that only producing older epics is good, as there will then be some players that cant use them.. I mean what do i do with ma epic drizzt?

OP is short hand for Original Poster.
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03/13/2007 2:53 PM  
DJ please contact me as you have no emailed me back about our trade thats almost 5 MONTHS late please respond ASAP

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03/13/2007 2:55 PM  
I've been playing since Harbringer and I couldn't disagree more. Currently, my FLGS has nearly as many players who started within the last year as started before that. Those players have barely any older pieces. Epic cards for the older pieces is just wasted cardboard for them. I see no reason to turn off a significant portion of the player base with worthless cards.

Even more significant was what I noticed at XP. I'd say that nearly half the people in the Limited Championship and the Constructed Qualifier were "new faces". There were a lot of new or newer players, which seems to indicate that the player base is changing. Once again, rewarding the newer players (or more importantly, not turning them off to the hobby) by providing cards that are likely to be useful is a good thing. I am generally disappointed by the rather selfish attitude that many (not all) older players seem to have that WotC should be catering to them (and thus ignoring a large percentage of the player base).

-SYB


Bert the Troll
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Adelaide

03/13/2007 3:03 PM  
I would dearly love to see the old cards get epic treatment. The longer it is, the less likley it will be ):

I do see the point of having new minis get epic cards, but I would rather a higher ratio of older ones until they get done.

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New Britain, CT

03/13/2007 4:37 PM  
Posted By Star on 03/13/2007 4:03 AM
WOTC's reasoning probably is that releasing an epic card from Unhallowed helps to generate interest in it. If someone gets a Stone Giant Runecarver epic card at their FLGS but doesn't actually own the mini for it perhaps they will buy boosters until they do get one. That may seem slightly far fetched but an outside chance of helping their Unhallowed sales is better than no chance of helping their sales - and they know that releasing an epic Aspect of Orcus card doesn't help them at all.
Just to be clear - I'm explaining what I believe to be WOTC's rationale for releasing epic cards for current sets. I certainly agree with the OP and would much rather have epic cards for current mini's released with the boosters and release promo epic cards for the older mini's that did not originally get them but should have.




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Broken Hill

03/13/2007 4:46 PM  
Posted By Faragdar the Wise on 03/13/2007 1:01 PM
Dude, how about an Epic Red Wizard (with circle magic)? Of course, it'll probably suck worse than the original Red Wizard card.

I'd love to see Epic Ialdabode, too, especially now that the Large Astral Construct is out. You could do some sweet new stuff with high level psionics, like create astral constructs.

As long as there's an Epic Vlaakith, it wouldn't hurt to make an Epic Lich Necromancer (whose commander effect could maybe generate more powerful undead )

Epic Eye of Gruumsh and/or Orc Champion? That would be cool.
Faragdar For President

An epic Red wizard would be awesome and finally my brother may be able to use him in a competetive band ! An epic Orc champ would be awesome but quite frankly terrifies me!



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gss_000
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03/13/2007 7:06 PM  
Maybe instead of epic cards they should update the normal skirmish stats for those older figs to make them playable for 200 pt games.

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Ryoga
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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/13/2007 8:29 PM  
Im waiting a long time for Ao Bane and Mina, The Dark Cleric.......... Is very sad that WoTC use Epic-MonthKits to promo the releasing sets..... WoTC, PLZ Give the great Price to the old and fiel players..... Thats would be

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03/13/2007 9:44 PM  
Posted By jacksonm on 03/13/2007 9:08 AM
While I want some of those older figures to get cards too I can see their point. Cards for minis that everyone can potentialy get do more to grow the brand so to speak.

this is what I was going to say and think WOTC is following.

Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!

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Monsoon28
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03/13/2007 9:52 PM  
Add my voice/vote for older epics, especially Bane and Demogorgon....ok one for Orcus as well.

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Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada

03/14/2007 7:32 AM  
Posted By The Beer Baron on 03/13/2007 1:49 PM
How about both in a retailer pack? I've heard both sides of this arguement and I agree with both. How much can these things cost to produce? I can hand out one of each to each player at the tournaments I run. People with complete older sets get something unique, while not denying newcomers prizes that count for them as well. And heck, since wishes are free today, how about a re-costed Drider Sorceror card, and a puppy.

Epic cards old,
Epic cards new,
Repainted minis
in cloaks of blue.


You know that is a very good idea, and 2 cards still takes up less cardboard and ink than a tile (which is what the epic cards replaced) and that should satisfy both newer and older players.

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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/14/2007 8:48 AM  
YEAH!

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Netherlands

03/14/2007 8:51 AM  
Posted By Ryoga on 03/14/2007 8:48 AM
YEAH!

What a Wake-esque statement: respect!

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03/14/2007 11:28 AM  
We need Epic cards of these minis as well:


King Obuld
All Aspects
Ryld
Alusar

and any other named mini that is more than 30pts in cost...

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/14/2007 11:50 AM  
Posted By SYB on 03/13/2007 2:55 PM
I've been playing since Harbringer and I couldn't disagree more. Currently, my FLGS has nearly as many players who started within the last year as started before that. Those players have barely any older pieces. Epic cards for the older pieces is just wasted cardboard for them. I see no reason to turn off a significant portion of the player base with worthless cards.

Even more significant was what I noticed at XP. I'd say that nearly half the people in the Limited Championship and the Constructed Qualifier were "new faces". There were a lot of new or newer players, which seems to indicate that the player base is changing. Once again, rewarding the newer players (or more importantly, not turning them off to the hobby) by providing cards that are likely to be useful is a good thing. I am generally disappointed by the rather selfish attitude that many (not all) older players seem to have that WotC should be catering to them (and thus ignoring a large percentage of the player base).

-SYB


I think calling some of the long time players/collectors selfish (for wanting epic cards for older figs) is a little bit harsh.  I really enjoy the game, and have a sentimental soft spot for some of the minis from the earlier sets.  I would love to dust off my Arcane Archer and have a competitive epic version on the game table.  Yes, epic cards for older minis may not be useful to some newer players, but in a CMG, not everyone will have every mini/card.

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Baltimore, MD

03/14/2007 2:57 PM  
There has t be a balance between the two: enticing new players to continue collecting with recent epics and rewarding old time collectors for their support with epics for older figs. It shouldn't be a battle between the needs of one group and the other.

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The Fortress of Solitude

03/15/2007 8:23 AM  
Posted By gss_000 on 03/14/2007 2:57 PM
There has t be a balance between the two: enticing new players to continue collecting with recent epics and rewarding old time collectors for their support with epics for older figs. It shouldn't be a battle between the needs of one group and the other.


Yes, exactly.

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The Red Light District

03/15/2007 8:47 AM  
If they aren't going to release cards for older figs with any regularity, I wish they would just release them online for download. It couldn't take them more than 5 minutes to churn out the stats, as it's clear that the ones they do release in kits are never playtested.

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Calgary, Alberta Canada

03/15/2007 8:56 AM  
the only solution is for them to pick a viable mini from Harbinger ( Arcane Archer, Medusa, Human Blackguard, etc.) and produce an Epic card. then the month after that produce an Epic card from Dragoneye (Gold Champion, Silver Sorcerer, Large Red Dragon, etc). then repeat , until they are producing one from the current set.

i personally think they should loosen the purse strings and support this game a bit more. could 2 Epic card releases per month really be that much more than 1?

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03/15/2007 9:02 AM  
Another comprimise solution is to provide epics from slightly older sets- say about Wardrums age. That way, a newly released figure isn't getting the epic treatment, which I agree doesn't make a lot of sense, but its still a figure that newer players can get their hands on if they want to.

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Baltimore, MD

03/15/2007 10:25 AM  
I really like the web enhancement idea. They could still do one a month or so to avoid oversaturation and making less than stellar choices from remaining figures that don't have epic cards("Why is the human commoner epic?"), while existing sets can have the current system of epic card production. That way you encourage people to buy the current sets from FLGS to get the figure and support their business.

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03/19/2007 1:20 PM  
I posted similar sentiments on another recent ASPECTS thread, so I'll give another shout out here - EPIC STATS for white cards!!! How cool would an EPIC (and playable!) Drow Cleric of Lolth be?!? As said above, "c'mon WotC - get'r done"!!!

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03/20/2007 10:24 AM  
even to go ahead and work witht epic death knights and beholders from deathknell

Posted By WakeXX on 09/25/2006 4:49 AM
OMG DJ!This has to be the spammiest spam thread ever!

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Coquimbo - Chile / Italia

03/20/2007 1:17 PM  
2 EPIC stats Cards per month!!! PLZ older one and new one!!! PLZ WIZARDS!!!...

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03/20/2007 2:34 PM  
It makes logical business sense to produce epic cards for the new stuff...not the old.  Many newer players excited to get into the game would be remiss to have epic cards for old figures they can no longer afford.  In addition, producing epic cards for new figures stimulates purchases for the new sets of figures.  I'd rather WotC stay fiscally viable, than have some 'vanity' old Epic cards being produced that would likely be unplayable anyway...due to the obvious ease of overcosting.
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