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Subject: How many folks do you know who've stopped collecting?

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Faragdar the Wise
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Albuquerque, NM, USA

05/06/2007 10:26 PM  

We hear a lot from newer players on this and other miniatures sites, but we in the internet community naturally stop hearing from collectors who no longer collect (and probably don't frequent these sites any more).  So in your local community, how many collectors do you know who've stopped, and when and why did they stop collecting?

My brother hasn't bought any miniatures since War Drums.  Basically, for him it's a money thing.  About this time last year, he had to take a hard look at his finances, and DDM just didn't fit any more--he had just moved into his own apartment.  He wasn't really playing the minis game, anyway, and he had moved away from his D&D group.

Locally, I work with a guy who stopped collecting at around Aberrations time.  He says he decided he had plenty of minis by then for D&D, and he has no interest in DDM.  He prefers Games Workshop games (and he also collects Warhammer, Warhammer 40K and Mordheim minis).  I tried to get him interested again, but I don't think it worked.  Funny thing was, just a couple of months ago, I found out that one of his objections to the minis line was that all large creatures were on square bases, even the ones that weren't supposed to have symmetric bases.  He hadn't noticed that 3.5 edition changed things so that all creatures now have symmetric spaces.

Anybody else?  I imagine we've lost some to Star Wars, Axis & Allies or Dreamblade miniatures.  We've probably lost some to price hikes, too.  Maybe others have just lost interest.  Anyone gone because of size creep?  Did the switch from terrain tiles to maps sour the game for anyone?

I guess the reason I bring this up is curiosity.  I'd like to get a feel for how fast our community is growing (since players lost can slow or reverse the growth trend) and what might be holding back the growth.  A growing community is a healthy one, so maybe knowing why some folks are getting out can help those of us who are staying in to encourage other players to stick around.


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Caracas Venezuela

05/06/2007 10:43 PM  
What may make people leave the hobby (as player or collector) could be the Random system for finding pieces the game has, in a way is to balance the game because not everybody has everything to play, but in other it gives some strengh on people who pays more; a little unfair in that way.

In my country, few collect for RPG intentions but the most collect for gamming so their collections are not so big and moves toward the game meta-gaming. In that fashion many people could leave the game easily if the rules dissapoint them or if the games comes with broken minis 1 per 5 cases.

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West Valley City, Utah

05/06/2007 10:44 PM  
My brother-in-law was collecting and skirmishing for a few months, and purchased 1/2 case or 1 case of Deathknell. That was the last he bought. He quit collecting because his fiancee (now wife) did not want him spending any money on it. He sold me his collection. He also sold his Magic the Gathering collection since she didn't like it. He didn't really get into RPG, and didn't get very proficient at skirmishing before getting out of the hobby.

I know a few people who have stopped coming out for DDM. I don't know if they role play, or just quit the hobby.

I quit DDM a while back. There were several factors that contributed to it. I was better at tiles than with maps. I wasn't very good at assimilating the new sets and new rules and figuring out what would work well together. I had a few bad experiences in the local scene, mixed with many good ones. One experience affected me quite a bit, and led me to quit in the middle of a prerelease tournament. I never regained my previous enthusiasm and an occasional poor experience after coming back (none of which were as bad as the initial one) just made it so that I wasn't having much fun anymore. I am heavily into RPG and collecting, though. I still have lots of friends who skirmish.

Size creep bothers me more than any other issue lately, but it hasn't driven me from collecting yet.

I have a DM who would collect more if his wife let him spend more on it. He mostly uses my collection when we RPG. The only problem with that is my collection is getting rather large (about 3000 minis), and transportation is getting less and less practical as my collection grows. He doesn't let me know what minis will be used, and so I can't just bring a portion of my collection. With the next set, my stuff that I bring to his house will no longer all fit in my trunk.

I don't know anyone who has left for Dreamblade. I don't really know any Dreamblade players. I am surprised the local hobby shops still sell Dreamblade.

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Adelaide

05/06/2007 10:47 PM  
One friend stopped collecting just because he can just use mine. :| IE I spend more money and have complete sets, though he has a largish collection, he found that he was borrowing enough of my minis to finnish a warband anyway, so...
He does still buy boosters for our sealed games.

Another person I know from dfferent interest forum said he stopped collecting after being informed about the nightmare artwork. He still buys singles for gaming, but mostly commons plus a few PC types.


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Caracas Venezuela

05/06/2007 10:54 PM  
I remember a guy from my playing group that stopped playing because he bought about 400$ Bucks in Boosters and Singles at Popullar collection and they never arrived... he was so dissapointed that simply left the game/hobbie.

It´s a sad Story.

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Baltimore, MD

05/06/2007 11:52 PM  
No one I know has stopped collecting. In fact it's the opposite, with more people collecting more and more with recent sets. The closest I've seen is someone who only collected some individual ones and didn't get more when he got the ones he needed.

A while ago I was talking to a store owner about CCGs and other collectible games and he said that from his experience a CCG had a 3 year generation, meaning your typical collector will focus on it for 3 years and get saturated and stop collecting. In my limited experience I haven't seen this yet for DDM, but there is going to be some natural drop offs over time. The hope is that more come in than go.

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The Fortress of Solitude

05/07/2007 12:31 AM  
I've seen quite a few come and go. One guy left due to a combination of financial concerns and a preference for SWM, though he still collects select DDM. Another guy didn't like the balance issues in skirmish (although he was a very good player); back then it was always Ogre Ravagers and Orc Champions, and he prefers finesse builds. A third guy is a hard-core hobbyist, and found that he still liked assembling & painting more than buying prepainted minis. More recently, another guy left to concentrate his money in other interests like golf and buying a house. The saddest is the guys who used to come to tournaments regularly. One moved to Japan. Another went back to Magic. And a few more just stopped having fun.

After all who have come and gone, there are a core few here in Vancouver who remain loyal to the game. Add in some enthusiastic newcomers, and I think our overall game state in the Vancouver area is stronger than ever.

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Rock Hill, SC

05/07/2007 12:57 AM  
Posted By Luisjoey on 05/06/2007 10:54 PM
I remember a guy from my playing group that stopped playing because he bought about 400$ Bucks in Boosters and Singles at Popullar collection and they never arrived... he was so dissapointed that simply left the game/hobbie.

It´s a sad Story.

Ouch, that's gotta suck! I am still waiting on a Xen'drik Champion from Popular Collections.

My two buddies who collect DDM are buying more now than ever. The FLGS has a lot of interest in Warmachine and Hordes, and I was worried for a while that my two buds would drop DDM in favor of those games, as they both collected those with a lot of enthusiasm for a while.

They both still collect those games, but they seem to be quite hooked on DDM as well. They are both part of my RPG group as well as skirmishers, so I think the higher amount of utility and affordability of DDM makes it more appealing. Also, D&D has always been the core of our gaming, so I think there will always be some loyalty to it.

As for myself, I think its safe to say that I am going to collect DDM as long as it's available.

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05/07/2007 3:08 AM  
I originally started collecting for RPG purposes.  Then once I started skirmishing, I started collecting to complete sets.  RPG and Skirmishing became too much financially and time wise.  So a choice - RPG or Skirmishing.  I choose skirmishing and collecting and plan to collect and skirmish until.Â

As for other gamers, there were two local players who skirmished reugularly.  One, still collects and skirmishes and the other I have not heard from or seen in about 6 months.Â

On the bright side, I did discover at the Unhallowed pre-release that there are about 5-6 others in the area (within 30 minute drive) who skirmish.  And that's good news.Â



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Czech Republic

05/07/2007 5:25 AM  
I know some people who left games (not just DDM but Magic, SWM and others) because of money issues. It's too expensive. Plus, Dreamblade is very popular here, it sure has taken some players from DDM.

I thought DB was more popular, now it sounds like it isn't? What is its popularity?

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¯\(°_o)/¯

05/07/2007 8:16 AM  
KAGE over on the Wizards boards quit because not every single piece was competitive or something.

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05/07/2007 8:17 AM  
Posted By Thenameless on 05/07/2007 12:31 AM
I've seen quite a few come and go.
Ditto.

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05/07/2007 8:50 AM  

Hi everybody, I stopped collecting after Underdark.  I sold it all on ebay and made some money.  I figured that it was close to its peak in popularity and the resculpts that were coming out were dropping the value of old desireable pieces.  I stopped for several reasons.

1. The meta game for RPGA.  The only people that played for fun moved away.  I liked to play theme warbands and for fun, orcs, drow, etc...  In other words I couldn't win.  It was the same, very competitive people winning over and over again with crazy warbands.  I'm not complaining, I know that is how the game is played.

2. The money.  The boosters were getting more and more expensive and you need hundreds of dollars at one time to buy cases in order to even hope to get a full set or spend lots of time and money getting singles. 

3. I first started for RPG purposes than the crazy person in me had to get them all!  It was getting a little weird for me.

4. The quality wasn't there.  I also paint metal minis.  I like the quality of what I paint.  When I looked at DDM they just looked rediculous to me.

5. The scaling was stupid.  You had halflings smaller than tiny creatures and large creatures almost as big as huges.  Also the huges were sculpted weird to fit in the box like red and gold dragons eww.

6. So many mins would never get used.  Boxes and boxes, mostly good, would just sit there taking up space.

There are probably other reasons I'm not thinking of now.  All this said I wish I hadn't sold them all off.  I miss my monsters for RPG purposes even though I can't seem to get a RPG game going for the life of me, that sucks.  I liked certain monsters that I can't seem to find in metal, hezrou, barbed devil, umberhulk come to mind.  Then again I probably would have lost money on my investment.  I still might go back and and buy some singles on ebay.

I still look for the previews every week and come here very often for news.  I still like the game but am trying to focus on RPG right now.

Thanks for the rant


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05/07/2007 9:23 AM  
Posted By Luisjoey on 05/06/2007 10:43 PM
What may make people leave the hobby (as player or collector) could be the Random system for finding pieces the game has.

Minis should be sold individually, in a non-random icon-like way.

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Quinte West, Ontario, Canada

05/07/2007 9:36 AM  
I don't know anyone who has stopped collecting, but the Random Factor kept me from buying any until this year. I just couldn't get myself to buy miniatures that were randomly put together. Frankly, the CCG-influence on the game (R, UC, C) still bugs me. I just want to get good minis for RPG's...

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05/07/2007 9:41 AM  
The problem with people in my area is not that they stop collecting, but that they won't start collecting. Those who do, don't stop easily.

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West Valley City, Utah

05/07/2007 9:57 AM  
I believe Lab Monkey stopped collecting. I never heard why. I know of several maxminis members who have stopped.

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05/07/2007 10:35 AM  
Sadly, I don't even know anyone in my area that collects minis

I'm not actually in any RPG circles around town and I don't skirmish (I just use them for my own RPG game), so my opinion doesn't mean much. I've met quite a few gamers around here though, and not a single one collected minis.

My current players like my minis and one of them has said he wanted to buy a few, but I don't know if he ever will.



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Sector 2814

05/07/2007 10:44 AM  
I have a few guys i know who didn't keep collecting, but they were "A booster here, a booster there" buyers. Still are, so no loss. I have 3 local players, and 1 doesn't seem to collect much anymore, but he's been real busy lately.

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Baltimore, MD

05/07/2007 10:46 AM  
As I said before, it's natural for his to happen.  But, completely non-random would be a mistake, especially to store's point of view.  Think about how much space you need to display DDM right now.  Not a lot.  However, if everything was non-random, then you need space to show all the product.  Over the last year or so that I have been looking at this, I've seen DDM, SWM, etc space stay stable or increase while in my area stores have started to shrink space allocated to non-random fantasy games because the $/square foot (or meter ) isn't as good.  Think about this as well: Have you ever seen Warhammer or LOTR in a Barns and Nobles or Borders?

The same store owner I mentioned above also mentioned in the same conversation that there are a lot of really good games that had non-rnodom pakaging that died.  He even ended with the quote, "Sometimes the customer doesn't know what he wants."
Posted By Mjollnir on 05/07/2007 9:23 AM
Posted By Luisjoey on 05/06/2007 10:43 PM
What may make people leave the hobby (as player or collector) could be the Random system for finding pieces the game has.

Minis should be sold individually, in a non-random icon-like way.



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Rochester, NY

05/07/2007 12:55 PM  
I know of 1 in my area that has stopped. He did when the price went up the last time. Since then there has been about 5 new people that have emerged.

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Sector 2814

05/07/2007 3:34 PM  

Posted By gss_000 on 05/07/2007 10:46 AM
As I said before, it's natural for his to happen.  But, completely non-random would be a mistake, especially to store's point of view.  Think about how much space you need to display DDM right now.  Not a lot.  However, if everything was non-random, then you need space to show all the product.  Over the last year or so that I have been looking at this, I've seen DDM, SWM, etc space stay stable or increase while in my area stores have started to shrink space allocated to non-random fantasy games because the $/square foot (or meter ) isn't as good.  Think about this as well: Have you ever seen Warhammer or LOTR in a Barns and Nobles or Borders?

The same store owner I mentioned above also mentioned in the same conversation that there are a lot of really good games that had non-rnodom pakaging that died.  He even ended with the quote, "Sometimes the customer doesn't know what he wants."
Posted By Mjollnir on 05/07/2007 9:23 AM
Posted By Luisjoey on 05/06/2007 10:43 PM
What may make people leave the hobby (as player or collector) could be the Random system for finding pieces the game has.

Minis should be sold individually, in a non-random icon-like way.




Or the customer knows exactly what they want, and it's only 10 pieces, not 60+. You would have a lot of dead product. Seriously, who would buy a Marid in single? or yet another Human with armor and sword?

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05/07/2007 4:48 PM  
I've known a few people who have gotten out after being fairly active on some of the boards. I recall exchanging barbs and ideas with Rav950 here and elsewhere and a person going by Warchief back on Merric's site.

I may soon become one of those who stop purchasing more of the game. I've decided my MtG will be curtailed after this block and am considering cutbacks to my modest mini purchasing. Minis just take up so much room and after a point you get more than you'll ever use in RPG which just leaves the few skirmish level minis from each set; when you don't get to skirmish much those aren't even that useful.


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05/07/2007 5:03 PM  
one quit do to a 50% price increase in less than 3 years...  another quit because he moved away from our group (both rpg and skirmish)...  4 people stopped collecting/playing because they moved onto dreamblade...  as for myself, i'm slowing down due to the price increases and the fact that i have enough minis already.  i started collected for rpg purposes and started playing skirmish just to do something with the minis on the off week for rpgs.  i actually carry my entire collection with me to the FLGS (complete sets from harbinger to blood war) for games and it's breaking my back.  being 6'4" and 280lbs, i can carry alot in the huge duffle bag i have but i've reached my limit.  in addition, one of the owners of the FLGS in my area is also stopping collecting complete set with unhallowed because he's got enough variety for his rpg games.


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05/07/2007 5:51 PM  
I seen alot of MM people come and go. Somday I will quit once I get the 168 monsters that I need made.

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Adelaide

05/07/2007 5:58 PM  
There is no way I could cart my collection to games.
One game I do play is away from my house, and it typically takes me about two hours to sort through the minis I expect to use for the game.

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05/07/2007 6:04 PM  
Posted By Bert the Troll on 05/07/2007 5:58 PM
There is no way I could cart my collection to games.
One game I do play is away from my house, and it typically takes me about two hours to sort through the minis I expect to use for the game.

Two hours? You need a better organization system Either that, or you have one heck of an RPG session!

It takes me maybe 10 minutes to pull out what I need for our game. I just stick what I'm taking to the session in a tackle box. I keep some "default" minis in it at all time just in case I need some thug NPC's or something




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Adelaide

05/07/2007 6:23 PM  
Posted By Oryan77 on 05/07/2007 6:04 PM
Posted By Bert the Troll on 05/07/2007 5:58 PM
There is no way I could cart my collection to games.
One game I do play is away from my house, and it typically takes me about two hours to sort through the minis I expect to use for the game.

Two hours? You need a better organization system Either that, or you have one heck of an RPG session!

It takes me maybe 10 minutes to pull out what I need for our game. I just stick what I'm taking to the session in a tackle box. I keep some "default" minis in it at all time just in case I need some thug NPC's or something





-
Well, that game normally goes for about eight+ hours, so can cover a range of encounters. Some games its a lot easier. Like when they were gnoll dungeons, I only needed to take the PC box, and a couple of monster boxes. That was nice.

Sometimes I need they (pcs) could be doing a few variations, and need to take encounters to account for choices. Hate subbing minis, and far worse, telling players, cant do that this week as I haven't brought the right ones. 

My mins tend to be stored in little plastic boxes by race (eg bugbears in box#1, gnolls in #2) and that part is easy enough. Rares need to be taken out of a different sorter type container into a travel container. That takes longer, but most of my rares are sorted fo skimish not RPG.

So as I use them for skirmish and other rpg games, and can be slack I normally spend about 30 minutes just collecting the ones I havent put back properly into their box. :| I could be better organised there, but my excuse is dont have enough minis to leave packed. (never have enough minis).

Huges, and big larges go into another tub for carrying there.

The sorting often includes deciding what semi-random encounters there will be.

I only tend to use about 60-80 of the minis in the night, but take a couple of hundard. The player and thier squad of npcs/beasts/etc often numbers about 20.

Ironically enough, the RPG game i play at my place uses far less minis.

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The Red Light District

05/07/2007 7:48 PM  
I don't know anyone who's stopped, but I only know 2 people besides myself that do at all, and neither of them on the scale that I do. That said, I've noticed myself slowing down. BW was an exception, as it just had so many pieces I wanted, but I didn't buy a whole lot of WotDQ, 1 case and about 5 boosters, and have bought only 4 boosters of UH, trading for the rest of the less than 1/2 of the set I found desireable. As long as there are good monsters made, I doubt I'll truly ever quit, but unless a set truly blows me away ala BW, I doubt I'll buy much more than the odd booster from the FLGS, using trading and Auggies for what I need. The combo of a poor set list and the big price hike did UH in for me. NB better be good, as it's the last chance WotC has for me to buy big before the baby comes

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New Britain, CT

05/07/2007 7:49 PM  
To be perfectly honest I haven't been playing DDM for a while now. It's a time management thing for me. I work WAY too many hours and have to divide what little free time I have between various interests. Thursday nights is one of my only free nights. They have DDM tournaments every Thursday - but Thursday is also when my friends get together to play board games at another hobby shop. Given the choice I hang out with my friends and play board games because I don't have much time to spend with them. I've had to give up my D+D game because of my work schedule as well. I'm really not using my mini's anymore.

I've still been collecting all the minis and will probably continue to do so even though I don't use them anymore. I'm sure that there will come a time (hopefully soon) where I have more free time and would regret having stopped buying mini's. It's funny - there were a couple of times in the past few years I stopped buying mini's because I was out of work and had to cut costs. Now I have no problems affording the mini's but have no time to play with them.

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05/07/2007 10:37 PM  
There's one guy in our local group of RPGers that started collecting during the Harbringer days (before I was on the scene) & who quit about Aberrations. He says that he spent too much time on Ebay. At the time he was skirmishing & collecting for RPG. He has a great collection of Harbringer-Archfiends. He keeps them around for use during RPG sessions.

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05/08/2007 10:04 AM  
Posted By Corim Danex on 05/07/2007 9:57 AM
I believe Lab Monkey stopped collecting. I never heard why. I know of several maxminis members who have stopped.

I did indeed stop collecting after War of the Dragon Queen.  It was a number of factors (many of which I have in common with raymo13's answer):


1. The money: I was spending hundreds of dollars per set.  The minis were already at the maximum price point for me when they increased the price again...  I looked at what I was getting for what I was spending and I just wasn't happy with the result.

2. The quality wasn't there: The poor quality of War Drums really, really cheesed me off.  There were just too many low quality minis, especially in terms of paint jobs.

3. The scaling: Especially with the size creep in the new large based minis.  When you put some of the old minis next to the new minis they just looked dumb.  If I don't like how they look on my game table, why am I blowing all my discrecionary income on this product?

4. Lack of a quality gaming group in my area.

With all of this my interest just waned.  The I started asking myself why I was holding on to all these minis?  I thought about it for 3 months and I didn't change my mind.  So I sold them all in one lump sum for a sizeable chunk of cash.Â

Do I miss the hobby?  Definitely.  I loved these little lumps of plastic and I loved hanging out here to talk with you guys.  I check out the previews regularly and some of them look really cool.  I'd love to have the new frost giant on a map with my six old frost giants and the tundra scout.  That would make for an awesome encounter.  I think about stuff like that every now and again...

However, do I miss DDM enough to try to get back in?  No way.  I've moved on and there's no chance that I'll try to get back in.





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05/08/2007 10:39 AM  
Unfortunately, the guy who first exposed me to DDM has more or less stopped collecting. He mostly plays RPG and sometimes played DDM but due to work, family, etc. he just didn't find the time to play. He still plays games for fun every now and then but no longer goes to DCI tournaments. My other friend who helped me get into serious tournament and qualifier play moved out of state (I live in Maryland) due to his job and he has gotten too busy to keep playing. He may or may not still collect for RPG but is no longer in the DDM tournament scene. So from my perspective, it seems that people I know are impacted more by life--work, family, etc. rather than by DDM--cost, paint jobs, etc.

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West Valley City, Utah

05/08/2007 11:03 AM  
Lab Monkey, thank you for filling me in. I think that others heard why, but it just kind of slipped by me, and then later I heard you were out, and I wanted to hear about it from you. I appreciate that you took the time to explain. I understand several of the factors that influenced your decision.

I have been out of skirmish and won't be getting back into it.
The thing that's keeping me is the RPG, since I am playing in three groups (about four hour sessions every two weeks).
I actually collect with different priorities now. I have traded away things in the past because they weren't good skirmish pieces, only to trade back for them because of RPG utility.
I must say that size creep and quality are my two biggest concerns.
I can't stand how the large bases don't fit in my previous container system. Well, if they had something really flat, it could fit, like the hellcat. But they are usually not that compact on the new large bases.

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Sector 2814

05/08/2007 11:27 AM  
Well, personally, I skrimish 3/month, but not really competitively. Just casual play.

I still go to qualifiers, about 3/ year (I either double up on limited or constructed)

I play RPG, one group, but we don't use a whole lot of minis (I bring the PC's, but the DM won't tell me what monsters to bring, so I'm left guessing.)

When my DM rotation comes around, and we're gaming at my house again, I'll be using them for RPG as well.

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The Fortress of Solitude

05/08/2007 2:46 PM  
I, too, wonder when I will reach my end. For me, storage space will become the issue before anything else.

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SLC, UT

05/08/2007 4:03 PM  
My days of collecting sets is over (ended with Blood War). I collect exclusively for RPG and there are just a lot of pieces that don't offer any incentive for me (ymmv) to pick up. There are too many duplicate humanoids (Human fighter in plate wielding X, Elf with Bow and Cape, Dwarf in Plate with Axe) for me to want to buy cases. Even rares aren't exciting me much these days (Frost Giant Jarl isn't terribly inspiring).

I'll continue picking up things I want/need for RPG as singles until I decide that enough is enough. Granted, even at saturation point I'll probably pick up one or two here and there that have interesting sculpts and would be fun to repaint.

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North Dakota, USA

05/08/2007 9:11 PM  
Think about quiting because they are becoming too expensive, but then again I'm an addict (so I will believe it when I see it!).  I have thought about only buying the minis I really like individually so I don't get all the new crap they keep adding in MM X-XVI, but I don't know if I would save a lot in the long run.  Plus once again that addiction thing may get in the way!

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Gatineau Canada

05/09/2007 4:47 AM  
tirwin,
I was thinking the exact same thing I have enough human with sword,elf with bow and dwarf with axe minis. I was thinking maybe finally quiting the case buying and just doing the ebay thing. Alot of the new monsters are just to wierd or pretty much repeative crap. But will I save in the long run is the question..?

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Calgary, Alberta Canada

05/09/2007 2:48 PM  
i am seriously considering selling my whole collection and leaving the game entirely.

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