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Olaf the Stout
Sergeant
404 Posts
    
Adelaide, Australia
 | | 08/16/2007 4:59 PM |
| Now that we know that there is going to be a 4th edition of D&D released next year, what do you think the chances of a Harbinger style set being released to accompany it are?
I could see them releasing a set with all the classic and iconic D&D minis that would see play in a "normal" D&D game, much like many of the minis that were released in the Harbinger set.
This would mean a new Large Red Dragon, Troll, Orcs, Drow, Ogres, Goblins, Bugbears, quite a few PC minis (covering all or most of the core classes), Skeletons, Zombies, Ghouls, etc,.
It may be a standard 60 mini set, or it could be a larger release.
So what do you think? Will they go down this path or not?
Olaf the Stout | |
My Trade Thread
12 Trades Completed - Bert the Troll, Keoki, elf_ranger, kalle, Dropbear, twilightraven, SkYlyn3, Monolthicus (x2), qillan_dvra, xuthal, MMT 2007
My Reference Thread | |
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Username
Warlord
5692 Posts
| | 08/16/2007 5:18 PM |
| | Well, the new starter set will have: Large Green Dragon, Human Sellsword, Elf Warlock, Dwarf Battlemaster, and Exiled Drow Fighter | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Olaf the Stout
Sergeant
404 Posts
Adelaide, Australia
| | 08/16/2007 6:37 PM |
| Exiled Drow Fighter almost sounds like a description of Drizzt! Olaf the Stout | |
My Trade Thread
12 Trades Completed - Bert the Troll, Keoki, elf_ranger, kalle, Dropbear, twilightraven, SkYlyn3, Monolthicus (x2), qillan_dvra, xuthal, MMT 2007
My Reference Thread | |
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DisplacerBunny
Skirmisher
40 Posts
| | 08/16/2007 6:53 PM |
| The third edition had its iconics, and most of those iconics were made into minis. (Ember, Tordek, Jozan, Devis, Krusk, Lidda, Nebin, Vadania, Regdar, Ialabode, Ragnara, Aramil, Eberk, and Rask) From the information I have gleaned thus far, 4th edition has its new iconics, including a halfling cleric, dwarf fighter, what is most likely a Tiefling Sorcerer/warmage, ect...
They haven't made a iconic since abberations with Rask, and since GoL with the "blah, adventurer" guys. You can bet you're multimillion bottom dollar that the 4th edition iconics will be stars of the 2.0 set. | | | |
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Michael
Warrior
256 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 08/16/2007 7:20 PM |
| The third edition had its iconics, and most of those iconics were made into minis. (Ember, Tordek, Jozan, Devis, Krusk, Lidda, Nebin, Vadania, Regdar, Ialabode, Ragnara, Aramil, Eberk, and Rask) From the information I have gleaned thus far, 4th edition has its new iconics, including a halfling cleric, dwarf fighter, what is most likely a Tiefling Sorcerer/warmage, ect...
They haven't made a iconic since abberations with Rask, and since GoL with the "blah, adventurer" guys. You can bet you're multimillion bottom dollar that the 4th edition iconics will be stars of the 2.0 set.
That's great! More unique minis to profit from Drizzt's CFX. ...wait, who knows if Drizzt will have a new 2.0 stats card? Leave alone a totally different commander rating? | |
Champion of Regis | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
713 Posts
UK
| | 08/17/2007 2:37 AM |
| Posted By Olaf the Stout on 08/16/2007 4:59 PM
Now that we know that there is going to be a 4th edition of D&D released next year, what do you think the chances of a Harbinger style set being released to accompany it are?
I could see them releasing a set with all the classic and iconic D&D minis that would see play in a "normal" D&D game, much like many of the minis that were released in the Harbinger set.
This would mean a new Large Red Dragon, Troll, Orcs, Drow, Ogres, Goblins, Bugbears, quite a few PC minis (covering all or most of the core classes), Skeletons, Zombies, Ghouls, etc,.
Olaf the Stout
I think this is very likely. The name "Dungeons of Dread" even sounds like a "Year Zero" back-to-basics sort of set.
Unfortunately, it will be a Harbinger-style set based on the drawings in the 4e MM I. There is a thread on Hordelings that shows the new 4e Troll, which looks nothing like the old trolls.
This will be great if you want to start over, but fairly useless if you wanted to add more minis to your 3e campaigns. | |
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Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
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PaSquall
Underboss
1399 Posts
| | 08/17/2007 3:15 AM |
| | Yes, Dungeons of dread is the first DDM 2.0 set, so it will probably be harbinger style. No problem with this (variety is always nice), but I certainly hope that the design of the minis is similar to the previous sets' and there is no size creep. If it should not be the case, I would stop collecting and I'd just buy the singles I like... We need compatibility (at least me). | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
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Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/17/2007 9:01 PM |
| meh to iconics. We already have iconic personalities. Drizzt, Elminster, Raisltin...
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 08/18/2007 4:27 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/17/2007 3:15 AM
Yes, Dungeons of dread is the first DDM 2.0 set, so it will probably be harbinger style. No problem with this (variety is always nice), but I certainly hope that the design of the minis is similar to the previous sets' and there is no size creep. If it should not be the case, I would stop collecting and I'd just buy the singles I like... We need compatibility (at least me). I'm guessing (and hoping) that the 4.0 stuff will retain the 5' square baseline and the sizes (tiny, small, medium, etc.) of the 3.5 rules. I've rather not liked the idea that a 9' creature and a 15' creature are the same size, but, whatever.
As far as minis go, I think that they'll probably stick within this format. I don't see us going back to Large-Tall and Large-Long, for example. I would be shocked to find 1x2 bases and the like. So, my guess is that the new and old minis will sit comfortably at the table together.
Just as the two different sizes of Large bases are okay together, I don't anticipate any big problems here. Small problems, yes. After all, we are still getting enormous dwarves.Â
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 08/18/2007 10:52 AM |
| | I heard something about hex bases and hex maps like in Mechwarrior. That would be bad. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
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Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 08/18/2007 11:06 AM |
| Posted By Pedro on 08/18/2007 10:52 AM
I heard something about hex bases and hex maps like in Mechwarrior. That would be bad.
They would be but there is no reason to make that dramatic a change. And considering all the pictures we've seen of the new stuff having round bases I don't see it happening.
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 08/18/2007 11:38 AM |
| Posted By jacksonm on 08/18/2007 11:06 AM Posted By Pedro on 08/18/2007 10:52 AM
I heard something about hex bases and hex maps like in Mechwarrior. That would be bad. They would be but there is no reason to make that dramatic a change. And considering all the pictures we've seen of the new stuff having round bases I don't see it happening.
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2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Frank5471UK
Sneak
126 Posts
| | 08/19/2007 6:40 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/17/2007 3:15 AM
Yes, Dungeons of dread is the first DDM 2.0 set, so it will probably be harbinger style. No problem with this (variety is always nice), but I certainly hope that the design of the minis is similar to the previous sets' and there is no size creep. If it should not be the case, I would stop collecting and I'd just buy the singles I like... We need compatibility (at least me).
This is my big fear as well.
I am first and foremost an rpg'er (with a HUGE financial investment in both minis and 3.5ed books). My group and I are very, very unlikely to be tempted by 4e as an rpg ruleset (we love 3.5 and feel it has plenty more to offer).
I really feel for the dedicated skirmishers out there who have just been told that approx 3/4s of their figs are now obsolete (and to make the remaining 1/4 playable, they have to arse around with downloading, printing, cutting and gluing new cards together) - what a crazy decision, but I am only a social, intermittent skirnisher, so this affects me less.
My huge worry is that from the next set that the style, size and mix of figures just won't match what has gone before.
We have already seen changes to Trolls and Beholders that whilst not earthshattering, will mean that the new models will look jarringly out of place when used in an encounter with the older style minis. I accept that I am a bit fussy and that not everyone that rpg's will feel the same way, but it's a BIG deal to me.
I only hope we don't see any of the following
1) Different shaped bases
2) Classic monsters (e.g. kobolds or orcs) refashioned to have different coloured skin, facial features etc
3) More size creep
4) Reclassification of monster sizes (a la Orcus)
5) A flood of monsters we have seen already and have plenty of (e.g. trolls and beholders) whilst some of the classic monsters we have yet to see (e.g. blink dog, annis, nalfeshnee, hydra, phase spider, rust monster, gray slaad) are ignored - especially if these repeat monsters look wildly different from their 3.5ed counterparts.
I have to say that I am underwhelmed at the moment. I only hope that some of my fears are proven wrong, or I will stop buying any new minis and make do with the couple of thousand that I have amassed so far :-)
TTFN
Frank | |
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| Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5309 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 08/19/2007 7:59 AM |
| Posted By Frank5471UK on 08/19/2007 6:40 AM
2) Classic monsters (e.g. kobolds or orcs) refashioned to have different coloured skin, facial features etc
4) Reclassification of monster sizes (a la Orcus)
For #2, you already mentioned the Troll and Beholder and we know at least the dragons are changing as well.
As for #4 there's already one example of that too, with the formerly medium Young Green Dragon now being large. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6843 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/19/2007 8:08 AM |
| | If there is size creep in the new stuff, this will be a big turnoff. I already see that WotC does not respond to complaints about size creep. So, I figure what's the point of telling them I don't like it? They don't seem to listen much at all. I guess it's either back of collecting or just get a few here and there as singles. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/19/2007 8:31 AM |
| They do listen Corim. They just don't do anything about it if they are not inclined to do so. I'll use Dragon & Dungeon magazines as an example. When us print magazine fans voiced loudly our displeasure did they listen? Sure they did. Did our complaints do one damn bit of good? No, because they had already committed to a move away from paper.
It sucks but there it is. I don't like it any more than you do. I became quite demoralized when I came to that painful realization that I am not in their customer demographic anymore. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12507 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 08/21/2007 9:49 PM |
| | It'll be hard to match or beat Harbinger as far as offering a comprehensive set of iconic MM1 creatures unless the set size is increased from 60 figures. Too many useful basic commons such as Human Commoner, Man at Arms, Elf Archer, Dwarf Axefighter, and Orc Archer/Spearfighter/Warrior. Not to mention the juicy rares. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13099 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 08/22/2007 11:30 AM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 08/21/2007 9:49 PM
It'll be hard to match or beat Harbinger as far as offering a comprehensive set of iconic MM1 creatures unless the set size is increased from 60 figures. Too many useful basic commons such as Human Commoner, Man at Arms, Elf Archer, Dwarf Axefighter, and Orc Archer/Spearfighter/Warrior. Not to mention the juicy rares.
All of that is what made Harbinger great. I wish newer sets were more like that and less like psychic this and eberron that.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Nyarlathotep333
Warrior
287 Posts
Alaska
| | 08/22/2007 11:46 AM |
| Well, as far as classic monsters goes, it seems like the next few sets will have a number of them. We know we're getting a Gelatinous Cube, Mummy, Umber Hulk, Troll, Large Green Dragon, and a Drow Sorceress. I've also read about a new Beholder, 4 armed skeleton (Bone Golem?), and a huge giant themed set soon as well. I'm thinking that WoTC will be re-releasing a lot of older classic monsters in the next few sets to help roll out the changes coming to DDM and the RPG. From what I've read though it doesn't look like there will be more than the ususal number per set though.
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- N333
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
- Conan the Barbarian, on what is best in life
My Website - Be sure to check out my painted minis gallery!
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| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/22/2007 7:11 PM |
| | I'm hoping it goes back to basics for at least one set. A nice, MM! inspired First set would go a long way towards getting it even more widely accepted. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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kyrin
Commander
3172 Posts
| | 08/22/2007 7:27 PM |
| At the Minis seminar, we were told that the Dungeons of Dread set woulld have 59 of its 60 members from the 4.0 Monster Manual I. (My radical thought is that the 60th will be Michael Derry's championship design) This could mean that those monsters will be quite core. It could also mean that MMI 4.0 is full of Wrackspawns and Tiamatspawns and Dromitespawns, but I don't want to believe that.
So yes, I think it will be very Harbinger-esque.
For the record, I don't mind different looking Trolls and Beholders. Trolls should have variety in their look, and aberrations should... well, aberrate, y'know?
JIM
aka kyrin
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My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
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Nyarlathotep333
Warrior
287 Posts
Alaska
| | 08/23/2007 10:33 AM |
| Posted By kyrin on 08/22/2007 7:27 PM
At the Minis seminar, we were told that the Dungeons of Dread set woulld have 59 of its 60 members from the 4.0 Monster Manual I.
So the question becomes: how much will the Monster Manual 1 change from 3rd ed. to 4th ed.? | |
Demonweb Called Shot: Myconid
Feywild Called Shot: Wolf
Champion of the Zombie Black Dragon
- N333
The major difference between a thing that might go wrong and a thing that cannot possibly go wrong is that when a thing that cannot possibly go wrong goes wrong it usually turns out to be impossible to get at or repair.
- Douglas Adams, Mostly Harmless
To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!
- Conan the Barbarian, on what is best in life
My Website - Be sure to check out my painted minis gallery!
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 08/23/2007 10:48 AM |
| Posted By Nyarlathotep333 on 08/23/2007 10:33 AM Posted By kyrin on 08/22/2007 7:27 PM
At the Minis seminar, we were told that the Dungeons of Dread set woulld have 59 of its 60 members from the 4.0 Monster Manual I.
So the question becomes: how much will the Monster Manual 1 change from 3rd ed. to 4th ed.?
I don't expect any radical changes, several minis will go and several will come, but no big charade. | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 08/23/2007 3:42 PM |
| I'm betting they need the 2.0 minis set to be strong and tie-in with the RPG to attract sales.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1201 Posts
| | 08/23/2007 8:44 PM |
| If you want to get really down too it, a 4.0 Beholder and a 3.5 Beholder would work together and the reason is this. Every Beholder has a unique appearance, either minor or major, and each one views itsself as the perfect incarnation, and every other beholder is a abomination that must be destroyed. | |
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