JodyJ
Warrior
258 Posts
    
 | | 08/24/2007 9:52 AM |
| What if we haven't seen a Cockatrice yet because they are not in the 4e MM? Seems like they go against a lot of the 4e monster design (basically petrification torpedoes).
I can really see the Tojanida and maybe the Arrowhawk not making the cut. No traction.
Belker, yeth hound, blink dog? Will they be cut or getting a serious re-imaging in 4e?
Seems like the Mephits got a re-imaging for 4e given the variance from the 3e art. | |
Called Shot: Against the Giants -- Aboleth
Called Shot: Demonweb - Large Whip Spider
Another Champion of the Aboleth | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10283 Posts
United States
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PaSquall
Underboss
1395 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 12:08 PM |
| Posted By JodyJ on 08/24/2007 9:52 AM
What if we haven't seen a Cockatrice yet because they are not in the 4e MM? Seems like they go against a lot of the 4e monster design (basically petrification torpedoes).
I'd really love to have a cockatrice one day. I hope you're wrong. Sadly, you could well be right. Since we recently got a gorgon, there's still hope.
(cockatrice : good thing to champion, if someone else hasn't already taken it. I'll check...)
Seems like the mephits got a re-imaging for 4e given the variance from the 3e art.
Most of them look exactly like their counterparts in the 2E planescape monstrous appendix. I love them (I get 4 or 8 of each... Ice mephits are especially well done)
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Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1061 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 12:42 PM |
| Hush about the Blink Dog. D&D without the Blink Dog is like a Sundae without the cherry. Sure you'll eat it, but it won't be as good. Not by a long shot.
Bad speculation. Bad. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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Arandae
Sergeant
699 Posts
UK
| | 08/24/2007 1:01 PM |
| Posted By JodyJ on 08/24/2007 9:52 AM
I can really see the Tojanida and maybe the Arrowhawk not making the cut. No traction.
Actually, that would really bother me. Those are creatures that I use.
Your point is a very good one, and it's been bothering me since the 4e bombshell.
The cockatrice and blink dog are long-established creatures, so I suspect they'll make the cut - but what will they look like in 4e? Perhaps the cockatrice will be redesigned to look like a dog, and the blink dog will turn out a chicken.
I wonder if WotC could have done better in all of those sets in bringing out more of 3e Monster Manual I. Then again, with all of those extra constraints on set lists (such as the 'need' to advertise and support MM II to V), perhaps the design team did a great job in bringing us the creatures they did. I guess we'll never know.
(But I'll always be left wondering if we really needed all of those dragonspawn...) | |
Champion of the Bodak.Knight of the Aboleth.Squire of Gnomes. Friend of (Non-Ugly) Fey.
Called Shots- Blood War: Green Slaad (53/60), Night Below: Kuo-Toa Whip (55/60),
Demonweb: Aboleth, Feywild: Fire Beetle,
Next Icon: Gargantuan Jotunheim Frost Giant | |
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Shottglazz
Sergeant
955 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 08/24/2007 1:20 PM |
| Posted By Arandae on 08/24/2007 1:01 PM
I wonder if WotC could have done better in all of those sets in bringing out more of 3e Monster Manual I. Then again, with all of those extra constraints on set lists (such as the 'need' to advertise and support MM II to V), perhaps the design team did a great job in bringing us the creatures they did. I guess we'll never know.
(But I'll always be left wondering if we really needed all of those dragonspawn...)
Or any of those Inevitables... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 47 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x3, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x3, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten
Pending trades ( 1 ): Kilsek
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6614 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 08/24/2007 2:33 PM |
| | I hope the phasm doesn't make the cut | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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SYB
Warrior
328 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 2:37 PM |
| Don't be too sure. While insta-kills are definitely against 4e philosophy (or from all appearances are), there are ways to reproduce the effect without making it an insta-kill while keeping the flavor.
Quick examples that come to mind:
Basilisk gaze deals Dexterity damage/drain (representing partial stoning). When Dexterity hits 0, creature is completely turned to stone.
Basilisk gaze paralyzes target and deals X damage (representing partial stoning). When damage hits certain threshold, creatures is completely turned to stone.
Basilisk gaze causes tiered stoning effect (like fear effects or fatigue effects now). Dazed -> Stunned -> Paralyzed -> Stoned
-MS | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2626 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 08/24/2007 3:53 PM |
| Posted By Shottglazz on 08/24/2007 1:20 PM Posted By Arandae on 08/24/2007 1:01 PM
I wonder if WotC could have done better in all of those sets in bringing out more of 3e Monster Manual I. Then again, with all of those extra constraints on set lists (such as the 'need' to advertise and support MM II to V), perhaps the design team did a great job in bringing us the creatures they did. I guess we'll never know.
(But I'll always be left wondering if we really needed all of those dragonspawn...) Or any of those Inevitables...
Dude, don't bash the Inevitables. They are up there with the Cadaver Collector.
I don't understand all the construct hate around here. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
"This world is made for love and peace" - Trigun
"anyway..shadow..you've figured women out. KUDOS." - raye_kino16 | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/24/2007 3:55 PM |
| We're going to see them all eventually. We have 5 MM's and a Fiend folio, not counting the "Monsters" Chapter in almost every other book. Everything will eventually make it over.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Alamanther's comeback
Sneak
168 Posts
Denmark
| | 08/24/2007 3:57 PM |
| I can really see the Tojanida and maybe the Arrowhawk not making the cut.Â
I wouldn't miss either of those two one bit... Those are two of the most ridiculous and uninspiring concepts in the entire MM - together with the rast, the ravid, the digester, and the thoqqua, these are two that I hope get lost in transition. They cheapen the MM by their very presence. | |
Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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Shottglazz
Sergeant
955 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 08/24/2007 5:13 PM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 08/24/2007 3:53 PM Posted By Shottglazz on 08/24/2007 1:20 PM Posted By Arandae on 08/24/2007 1:01 PM
I wonder if WotC could have done better in all of those sets in bringing out more of 3e Monster Manual I. Then again, with all of those extra constraints on set lists (such as the 'need' to advertise and support MM II to V), perhaps the design team did a great job in bringing us the creatures they did. I guess we'll never know.
(But I'll always be left wondering if we really needed all of those dragonspawn...) Or any of those Inevitables... Dude, don't bash the Inevitables. They are up there with the Cadaver Collector. I don't understand all the construct hate around here.
No construct hate here...just not a fan of the inevitables...enjoy golems (not half-golems) as much as the next person...
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Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 47 ): Pikel, Darrell, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x3, Wraithborne x5, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x3, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten
Pending trades ( 1 ): Kilsek
WotC trades ( 1 ): Red_Deceiver
Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1186 Posts
| | 08/24/2007 8:38 PM |
| | Now try applying the Basalisk too 2.0 DDM, in this case the Greater Basilisk as it will be converted too 2.0, yet match 4 E rules. | |
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 08/25/2007 5:06 AM |
| The Cockatrice is too much of a classic D&D monster not to be included in the new edition, even if they haven't done a mini of it yet. I want that mini though.  | | | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/25/2007 4:44 PM |
| | I definitely want a Cockatrice. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1061 Posts
| | 08/26/2007 7:50 AM |
| | Tell that to the fans of the Cyclopse. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
8988 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 08/26/2007 11:19 AM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/24/2007 12:08 PM Posted By JodyJ on 08/24/2007 9:52 AM
What if we haven't seen a Cockatrice yet because they are not in the 4e MM? Seems like they go against a lot of the 4e monster design (basically petrification torpedoes).
I'd really love to have a cockatrice one day. I hope you're wrong. Sadly, you could well be right. Since we recently got a gorgon, there's still hope. (cockatrice : good thing to champion, if someone else hasn't already taken it. I'll check...)
Seems like the mephits got a re-imaging for 4e given the variance from the 3e art. Most of them look exactly like their counterparts in the 2E planescape monstrous appendix. I love them (I get 4 or 8 of each... Ice mephits are especially well done)
Good point about the Gorgon. Perhaps 4th edition will just change the effect of its breath weapon. Maybe drop the challenge rating, and turn it into a slow effect. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/26/2007 6:59 PM |
| | or perhaps they do an escalating effect. First failed save: stun. Second failed save: paralysis. Third failed save, stone. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
929 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 08/26/2007 10:05 PM |
| Posted By PaSquall on 08/24/2007 12:08 PM Posted By JodyJ on 08/24/2007 9:52 AM
What if we haven't seen a Cockatrice yet because they are not in the 4e MM? Seems like they go against a lot of the 4e monster design (basically petrification torpedoes).
I'd really love to have a cockatrice one day. I hope you're wrong. Sadly, you could well be right. Since we recently got a gorgon, there's still hope. (cockatrice : good thing to champion, if someone else hasn't already taken it. I'll check...)
Is my called shot for DoDr. 
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Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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Count Dooku
Commander
4636 Posts
New York
| | 08/27/2007 3:56 AM |
| Actually Tojanidas and Arrowhawks exist to be other elemental versions of Salamanders and Xorn.  Alot of people never noticed..But please pull out your MM. You will see that are 4 monsters come in three different sizes (small, medium and large) and all 4 monsters are around the same challange rating by size.  So we have all 3 sizes of slamander but it's elemental cousins are neglacted in mini-world. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11197 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 08/27/2007 4:12 AM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 08/24/2007 3:53 PM
Dude, don't bash the Inevitables. They are up there with the Cadaver Collector.
I don't understand all the construct hate around here.
The Collector is kinda cool and I absolutely love golems but Inevitables? Don't need em. Useless. | |
Ghendar - Bringin' the snark!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Alamanther's comeback
Sneak
168 Posts
Denmark
| | 08/27/2007 4:28 AM |
| Posted By Count Dooku on 08/27/2007 3:56 AM Actually Tojanidas and Arrowhawks exist to be other elemental versions of Salamanders and Xorn.  Alot of people never noticed..But please pull out your MM. You will see that are 4 monsters come in three different sizes (small, medium and large) and all 4 monsters are around the same challange rating by size.
To me, this only emphasises how poorly conceived the tojanida and the arrowhawk are. Okay, so they had a classic outsider with the fire subtype, and in their desperation, they came up with these two duds to have outsiders with the air and water subtypes?
The swiss army turtle and the feathered x-wing fighter were made to fill in the holes, and they show it. | |
Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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yack
Commander
3162 Posts
Ottawa, Canada
| | 08/27/2007 4:38 AM |
| | I like them...hope they make them. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
ATG: Fog Giant
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2083 Posts
| | 08/27/2007 5:47 AM |
| | other than the green dragons nose why does everyone think they will reinvent the entire wheel and goblins will be 8 feet tall and humans wont speak common? the beholder looks slightly different and we have a new design on the troll.im sure the cockatrice will eventually be made and it will liik look the ugly rooster it is. same with a blink dog | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/27/2007 7:56 AM |
| | I like a few of the inevitables. Specifically the Kolyarut. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/27/2007 7:56 AM |
| | I like a few of the inevitables. Specifically the Kolyarut. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11197 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 08/28/2007 8:40 AM |
| Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/27/2007 7:56 AM
I like a few of the inevitables. Specifically the Kolyarut.
We heard ya the first time.  | |
Ghendar - Bringin' the snark!
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
883 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 08/28/2007 12:21 PM |
| I'm with Teflon Jeff. Assuming 4e does well, sooner or later we'll see practically everything WOTC/TSR did in previous editions. Regurgitating old material in a new edition is traditionally one of their main methods of turning a buck.
I suspect that classic monsters like the cockatrice will definitely be in 4e; not all may make it in the MM, but they'll no doubt appear in one of the first additional monster supplements if not. Its abiities may have suffered a change, but I'd think that, for the rules themselves anyway, they'd try to keep creatures drawn from classic myths and legends reasonably close to their prototypes; they might even make them closer in appearance to folklore, as they seem to have done with the troll. | | | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7146 Posts
Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
| | 08/28/2007 2:59 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 08/28/2007 8:40 AM Posted By Teflon Jeff on 08/27/2007 7:56 AM
I like a few of the inevitables. Specifically the Kolyarut. We heard ya the first time. 
I like a few of the inevitables. Specifically the Kolyarut.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Snu
Skirmisher
30 Posts
| | 08/28/2007 8:06 PM |
| I'd really like to see the cockatrice, as well. It's not just classic D&D, it's a famous (and cool looking) mythological monster -- Wikipedia says it's been referenced as far back as the 12th century.
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PaSquall
Underboss
1395 Posts
| | 08/29/2007 1:53 PM |
| | That wouldn't be surprising. In fact Gary Gygax used books referencing legendary medieval monsters to create many critters of the early D&D. | |
Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON
(Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD
Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female
Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Fun Guy from Yuggoth
Cthulhufnord
Warlord
10787 Posts
Umass Amherst Baby!
| | 08/30/2007 9:53 PM |
| Posted By SYB on 08/24/2007 2:37 PM
Don't be too sure. While insta-kills are definitely against 4e philosophy (or from all appearances are), there are ways to reproduce the effect without making it an insta-kill while keeping the flavor.
Quick examples that come to mind:
Basilisk gaze deals Dexterity damage/drain (representing partial stoning). When Dexterity hits 0, creature is completely turned to stone.
Basilisk gaze paralyzes target and deals X damage (representing partial stoning). When damage hits certain threshold, creatures is completely turned to stone.
Basilisk gaze causes tiered stoning effect (like fear effects or fatigue effects now). Dazed -> Stunned -> Paralyzed -> Stoned
-MS
I like that. I may have to steal that idea for a RQ game or two.
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Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Thailfi
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 08/31/2007 6:31 AM |
| I'll boycott 4th edition just like I did 3rd edition until I see a carbunkle, flumph, minimal, and al'miraj.
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Thailfi's Have/Want List
Thailfi's References | |
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Wraithborne
Commander
3531 Posts
West Virginia
| | 08/31/2007 7:00 AM |
| Posted By Thailfi on 08/31/2007 6:31 AM
I'll boycott 4th edition just like I did 3rd edition until I see a carbunkle, flumph, minimal, and al'miraj.
Hope you're not holding your breath. | |
The year: 1994. From out of space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction! Man's civilization is cast in ruin!
Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn...
A strange new world rises from the old: a world of savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword against the forces of evil.
He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!
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Thailfi
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 08/31/2007 7:15 AM |
| Posted By Wraithborne on 08/31/2007 7:00 AM Posted By Thailfi on 08/31/2007 6:31 AM
I'll boycott 4th edition just like I did 3rd edition until I see a carbunkle, flumph, minimal, and al'miraj.
Hope you're not holding your breath.
This was an attempt at humor on my part. Hell was going to freeze over before my group switched to 3e. 4e will probably only take a cold front moving through Hell to get us to switch. We'll see. Eventually we will run out of stuff to do in 1e/2e.
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Thailfi's Have/Want List
Thailfi's References | |
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JodyJ
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 08/31/2007 9:58 AM |
| Well one thing is for sure is that the Setlist of DoD will be a preview of what will make the cut (except for 1 creature - a gnome PC?)
The only new creature shown is the Fire Archon which might be the first of the elemental archon types (the other was in the Gen Con art). | |
Called Shot: Against the Giants -- Aboleth
Called Shot: Demonweb - Large Whip Spider
Another Champion of the Aboleth | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 08/31/2007 10:57 AM |
| | Remember, some of what isn't made is because they can't make it look good. It may be that they want to make it, but feel that it's not good enough to go out (some do slip through). Case and point: the G-cube. They've been wanting to make it for years, yet never felt it came out right or at a good cost. Now they can do it. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
929 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 08/31/2007 11:52 AM |
| Is only time to wait, and see what they make.
But I wanna see my Mounted Paladin Roper ;)
(a Roper Paladin, Mounted on a Horse or something else!!!!), No way!!
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Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1497 Posts
Spain
| | 08/31/2007 12:27 PM |
| | And what about the hydra? I have been waiting for it since giants legend was released.It is a typical monster very cool looking and not impossible to beat for the Main player characters in a RPG campaing.I hope new 4 ed will crete it (and make a decent skirmish piece if possible) | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1186 Posts
| | 08/31/2007 2:43 PM |
| | A scaling petrification gaze may work, except i wouldnt feel confident of having the target to fail 3 saves in order to kill it unless the DC is very high, or if saves are very low, or if the Basilisk gets a dramatic point reduction. | |
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