Salsero
Sneak
92 Posts
    
México City
 | | 12/17/2007 5:55 PM |
| Well, that's a bit disheartening indeed.
But probably it's for better to know that it was planned to be that way instead of being changed due to my reports of brokeness  . | |
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Khellrendros
Skirmisher
45 Posts
| | 12/18/2007 3:13 PM |
| | I love the cards. Though think Orcus should have Hard to Kill 5, like Bruneor. I mean he did come back from losing his divinity. Still overall I love these things. So that being said any word on when we might be able to snag a pdf? Keep up the good work. | | | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/18/2007 11:29 PM |
| I'm working on making the actual cards for quite a few still. These are the ones that we have stats for and I'm just needing to make the cards now. We are still play testing a few too. Takes quite a while.
Bone Devil
Barbed Devil
Pentifex Monolith
Aramil, Adventurer
Dwarven Defender
Red Wizard
Human Wanderer
Valenar Nomad Charger
Beholder
Valiant Cavalry
Eberk, Adventurer
Ragnara, Psychic Warrior
Ialdabode, Human Psion
Regdar, Adventurer
Mialee, Elf Wizard
Jozan, Cleric of Pelor
Gold Champion
Eye of Gruumsh
Orc Champion
Ember, Human Monk
Roper
Aspect of Loviatar
Angel of Vengeance
Meepo
Champion of Eilistraee
Mercenary General
Most of those are epic cards, but some of them are just beefed up versions kind of like the Urthok.
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/20/2007 4:02 AM |
| These two were tough to make stats for:
(EDIT: fixed Beholder to have higher DCs and a little more life)
(EDIT: Ialdabode: fixed DCs, they seemed too low. Also added Quick Cast) |
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TheChuck
Warrior
333 Posts
Mississippi, USA
| | 12/20/2007 8:14 AM |
| Great job on these cards angelfiend! Ialdabolde looks awesome! I love his selection of psionic powers. The beholder doesn't seem worth his points though. Higher AC, Hit Points, and Save, with a few more options on the Eye Ray, and Immune Flanking just don't seem like they're worth that huge point increase you gave it. Maybe if everytime you roll the d20 you can add 5 to it and pick the effect from the total, or an increase in the DCs of the eye rays, or maybe both, then I could see his huge cost, but as is I think he looks underpowered.
That being said, I love what you're doing here and keep up the great work!
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Vindicated Champion of a Shadow Mastiff!! DoD 36/60
Vindicated Against the Giants called shot: Huge White Dragon: Elder White Dragon AtG 59/60
Demonweb Called shot: Aspect of Baphomet | |
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 12/20/2007 10:35 AM |
| | I think the Beholder needs something more. For it's cost it isn't that much of an improvement over the original. Maybe give it an initiative boosting ability or a one shot use ability to escape attacks of opportunity or both. Perhaps allow it a way to increase the DCs of it's eye rays or just make them higher. It just needs more than what it is. | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/20/2007 1:53 PM |
| Sorry everyone but that Beholder has been play tested more than any other card we have and it absolutely dominates. We play tested him with his DCs at 19 and it was ridiculous. He was killing 2-3 enemies on average every game with either flesh to stone or finger of death, many of them being killed at full or close to full life. Every time you roll with him, you have a 1 in 4 chance of rolling flesh to stone, disintegrate, or finger of death. So getting to roll twice in a round makes that pretty incredible and you get many shots at those three very powerful things over the course of say 8 or so rounds. His sleep was very handy as was his charm monster. The average level among epic cards is a 12 (or an 11 if you consider all the save = 10 Giants of Legend pieces), as far as we can figure, so the Beholder's opponents on average are having to roll a 6 or else they are being affected by his eye rays. I knew that many of you would say he isn't tough enough. Throw a Dark Naga in your warband then and make his DCs go up to 20. I can assure you that you will absolutely destroy almost any living warbands that you face. Obviously players that use a Beholder in their warband keep him behind their lines of defense so he can roll away and use his eye rays. By the time an enemy actually gets to him they have to now deal with 145 hp and they are almost always hurting themselves by that point.
I'm not sure that we can justify changing him because of the more than 20 games we used him in play testing him. He really was very powerful, particularly because of his eye rays between 16 and 20. We are certainly open to feedback and ideas from everyone though, and have really appreciated the ideas that everyone has given on previous cards. | |
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 12/20/2007 8:38 PM |
| | Well without knowing what all you were testing the Beholder against or with in the rest of it's warband I can't judge it's power level in comparison really. Though I can choose the usual top pieces used in most Epic tournaments and know that most of them have to roll a 4 or less to fail the DCs. DC 18 just isn't that powerful against the likes of the epic Solar, epic Tordek, Aspect of Bahamut, or Aspect of Tiamat. Screen with any undead or constructs that only can be hurt by an 18 or higher and I just can't see it surviving. Epic Vlaakith, epic Soth, epic Strahd, Dracolich or the Nightwalker even could potentially laugh off pretty much everything your epic Beholder can throw at it. Add to that anything that can be invisible until it can pulverize the Beholder and I just don't see it surviving long. Again though you'd have to give me the run down of what was played on both sides for me to truly judge your playtesting. | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/20/2007 9:13 PM |
| | We play tested it against random epic warbands and not just tier 1 type bands. Of course epic Solar, Tordek, Bahamut and the other Tier 1 types will do pretty well against the Beholder, but we didn't only test against those (although those were used in our testing). We also tested against epic warbands with their levels ranging anywhere from 10 to 15. If we were to make it competitive against only Tier 1 pieces its DCs would probably have to be more like 20 or 21 maybe. It really did do quite well though not in every game. Some games it would really dominate and others it was a flop and just didn't do much. It really came down to the rolling to be honest. Tough to say what is fair and well balanced on the Beholder. It has been the toughest card for us so far. I will say that we will probably increase the DCs up to 19 though. It would be kind of stupid if you used the 83 point Beholder and a Dark Naga and then had DCs of 19 when our epic Beholder only has 18! | |
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 12/21/2007 10:16 AM |
| | Yeah, the variance of a D20 and random effects will do that. As you said and my thoughts coincide because for 20 points less than your epic Beholder you can get a Dark Naga and two normal Beholders. You lose the Finger of Death and some other effects that aren't as nasty but up the DCs to 19. The payoff is better there with 4 eye rays a round at higher DCs. | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/28/2007 3:34 AM |
| | Three more: |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/28/2007 3:35 AM |
| | I just had to make a beefed up version of one of my favorite sculpts: |
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Salsero
Sneak
92 Posts
México City
| | 12/28/2007 4:45 PM |
| Very nice additions. I liked the Valiant Cavalry the most. Hitting and running for 40 damage a hit sounds very annoying.
Last time we played King Obould, Aspect of Bane, Centaur Hero and Aspect of Demogorgon. We were most pleased with the last two. They proved to be very effective. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9931 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/28/2007 5:15 PM |
| Some very interesting epics have come up since I last saw this thread.
I agree that the Beholder DC's can be brought up to 19. People usually don't just play the epics with average saves, they play the ones with uber saves, and boost them on top of that. Epic Raistlin has a lot to do with this dynamic.
Beautiful selection of psionic powers for Ialdabode. He could probably come down in cost a little - how much I don't know.
You should probably increase the speed of the Dwarven Defender to 6. Usually, an epic character would have a magic item by then, that would fix one of his most blatant weaknesses.
Red Wizard and Valiant Cavalry look fine.
I, too, am a big fan of the Human Wanderer's sculpt. One thing you can do for him is give him magic damage output on everything. For a fighter/rogue type, his damage output is already low for epic, and you don't want him getting hosed against creatures with DR. Remember, more and more undead and constructs out there too, so sneak attack isn't as great. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 12/28/2007 6:16 PM |
| | I have to agree with you Salsero that the Aspect of Demogorgon is effective. We used him in a game a couple of days ago. His rot ended up doing a total of 125 damage to three different enemies. Add that to his 80 damage a round in melee and he works quite well. The best thing he has going is the dual activation. Having to roll twice in a round against rot means you will likely be missing the DC after no more than a round or two. A couple Gaze Attacks don't hurt either. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3843 Posts
USA
| | 12/29/2007 6:13 AM |
| Wow, I have not checked this thread out in a while. Excellant job on all of the different cards (Epic and otherwise). I wonder if WotC is watching (or are you secretly a WotC staffer trying to get us to play test these ideas as the WotC folks do not have time to do so as they are busy on D&D 4.0 and DDM 2.0  ).Â
IMO many of the ones you have crearted could easily be used asap.Â
Again, great job.Â
 Â Â | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Wolfgang
Commander
3867 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 01/01/2008 2:39 PM |
| Wow, I have not checked this thread out in a while. Excellant job on all of the different cards (Epic and otherwise). I wonder if WotC is watching (or are you secretly a WotC staffer trying to get us to play test these ideas
no thats to good of an idea for WOTC to come up with
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Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Joke champion of the epic sage!
Demonweb called shot - Sivak Draconian
Feywild called shot - Sivak Draconian
Number of sets with Sivak Draconian as my called shot - 9
Completed trades: (79)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
Trade References
Email Me | |
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FriendlyAlienist
Sneak
100 Posts
Finland
| | 01/22/2008 1:13 AM |
| You might add Perfect Targeting to Beholder. Until that I think I would prefer 2 non-Epic Beholders to one Epic. With Perfect targetin, one could get some points from fodder with less efficient Eye rays and save the bertter rays for bigger targets.
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Champion of Gibbering Abomination, Knight of All Things Aberrant | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/22/2008 1:58 AM |
| | Finally had a chance to get more done and posted. Also edited Ulmo's card. I used him in a game and he was a tad too heavy a hitter on his ranged attacks. Go back up the thread and check him out again: |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/22/2008 2:04 AM |
| | I know you guys will have a field day with the Half-Elf Bow Initiate, but try not to compare him to an obviously too powerful piece like the Storm Archer. |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/22/2008 2:07 AM |
| | Two more: |
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Wolfgang
Commander
3867 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 01/22/2008 7:09 AM |
| | keep them coming i love em! | |
Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Joke champion of the epic sage!
Demonweb called shot - Sivak Draconian
Feywild called shot - Sivak Draconian
Number of sets with Sivak Draconian as my called shot - 9
Completed trades: (79)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
Trade References
Email Me | |
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Salsero
Sneak
92 Posts
México City
| | 01/29/2008 7:59 PM |
| Very very nice. I like specially the Barbed and Bone Devils. Gotta try'em.
Last time the Lich Necromancer proved that he's up to the task. That teleport was just nasty (for me and my poor unsuspecting beholder ). | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2505 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 01/29/2008 9:17 PM |
| | sweet, keep em coming! | | | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/30/2008 2:09 AM |
| I'm glad you are liking them and using them. It is a lot of work, so it's cool that people other than me are benefitting from it. I guess it's my little contribution to the world of DDM.
As a side note, I went over to the official D&D minis forum, and it was inundated with posts about how the new game has many problems already with quality control and inconsistency. It reiterated to me how happy I am to have these 40+ more options, whatever happens to the game in the future. It's definitely worth the effort.
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/30/2008 2:11 AM |
| I'm getting faster at laying them out now:
(EDIT: Mercenary General's Improved Entourage is now attack +2 instead of attack +4) |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 01/30/2008 2:16 AM |
| Everyone's favorite, the Orc Champion: Â |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
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Human_Fighter
Skirmisher
22 Posts
| | 01/31/2008 4:20 AM |
| Firstly Angelfiend I love the work youve done even if I don't ever play epic I'm glad to see that someone in the community has continued to carry the torch of 1.0 to this extent I love the cards and i've had fewer complaints about them than I have about wizards' cards.
Secondly about 2.0 the game is going through some minor re design because of some competing design philosophies. They are reluctant to give us a 1000 term glossarary because of trying to avoid term lookups and stalls in game... but they seem content to print pages of eratta. Many of the cards seemed hacked together and it's my opinion that wizards is practicing some fan based play testing especially when you read the following statement "The first set of updated D&D Miniatures cards are ready to be unveiled, inspected, and playtested. " I would dare to say that almost no playtesting went into these cards because if they had they would have seen the errors as we did... infact this looks like a product should before you put on the final coat of veneer which is a step i think they skipped inorder to rush out the material on the schedule they gave us. | | | |
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ScruffyRanger
Sergeant
358 Posts
Central Coast AUSTRALIA
| | 02/01/2008 3:45 AM |
| | angelfiend: Nice work :) | |
ScruffyRanger's Promo Page!
Check it out here!
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Wolfgang
Commander
3867 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 02/01/2008 4:42 AM |
| yes very nice work
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Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Joke champion of the epic sage!
Demonweb called shot - Sivak Draconian
Feywild called shot - Sivak Draconian
Number of sets with Sivak Draconian as my called shot - 9
Completed trades: (79)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
Trade References
Email Me | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 02/06/2008 1:49 PM |
| | And now for something a little different: |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 02/19/2008 9:17 PM |
| Awesome stuff
*giving much overdue sticky* | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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vanrulzz
Commander
2505 Posts
¯\(°_o)/¯
| | 02/19/2008 9:20 PM |
| | \nn/ these just keep getting better and better. WotC needs to help support vintage by making your cards official. | | | |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 02/20/2008 3:26 AM |
| Wow. I got the sticky treatment. Thanks.
I plan on attempting to fix all the older higher-costed creatures that were severely hindered by their save=10s, low attack bonuses, etc.
Plus I like to see their pictures when I look at the card, so I think the cards look better in the color format.
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 02/20/2008 3:28 AM |
| | I will update the PDF files again after I make several. |
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angelfiend
Sneak
85 Posts
| | 02/20/2008 3:29 AM |
| | And a couple more: |
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Pedro
Commander
3922 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 02/21/2008 9:22 AM |
| Where did you get the small pictures of the minis? Donwload or cut from rpg side of the card?
Otherwise, very nice work :) | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Pedro
Commander
3922 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 02/21/2008 2:59 PM |
| | And how big are your cards? Which image hosting do you use? | |
2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
2.0 Champion of Necromancers! (preferably not Evil:-))
Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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