iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
    
Spain
 | | 11/06/2007 4:22 AM |
| I do not know all the stats cards at 100% and the new rules look simple but I will ensure the minis in the new set have been powered down in a comparative speaking of course.Probably it is too recent but I do not see powerhouses like the LBD or LShD.Only two or three creatures have interesting me (fire archon,yuanti champ...).I think only afew creatures will see competitive play.Sicerelly,I doubt this newcomers can overcome critters like werewolf lord,FGFP or ultroloth.Powered down but....why?In the other hand I have to admit it is one of the most interesting sets with a huge variety of creatures and very,very interesting for RPG play.But I,m a skirmish player mainly.We will see and I hope i will be wrong
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 11/06/2007 5:11 AM |
| I agree that in raw stats, the new set has no tier-1 units.
The DoD creatures that are in tier-1 do so by virtue of some special abilities, which are extreem compared to previous sets.
e.g. Astral Stalker has ranged sneak attack, Hide & LoS ranged attack. A combo which hasn't existed in any previous set.
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Talaeden_Denthiir
Sneak
64 Posts
| | 11/06/2007 8:14 AM |
|   I agree, it does seem powered down, especially with all of the low cost figures. Not too many Tier 1 Figs in this set but, there are many great figs for RPG. I'm guessing it's because this is the last set before DDM '08 (aka DDM 2.0) and the want to 'reset' the power creep, and maybe even make all of the dragons the powerhouses they need to be?   Speaking of Forth Edition, I haven't lived in Spain since 1999, and since we just had our first baby girl (she's 9 months ;) and their are almost no spanish speakers in my part of upsate NY, I'd really like to get my hands on a 4th Edition Players Handbook en Castellano so I can brush up porque se traba la lengua... So, ILuvXtina, can u give me the names of any stores in España that I can order from? I would very much appreciate it.
                             Gracias,
                                             Teo
P.S. Me gusta tu Avatar de Xtina. ?Ella parece mucha mas mejor como una morena, no? | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 11/06/2007 8:20 AM |
| | Agree with iluvxtina - there has been a slight power down for this set, instead of power creep. I still like it though, as there are pieces viable for skirmish. It also seems to have a better costing balance overall. We'll see later if anything can survive to the tier 1 meta. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Temperance
Sergeant
525 Posts
| | 11/06/2007 10:20 AM |
| and since we just had our first baby girl (she's 9 months ;) Congrats, Teo! | |
Champion of the common Flying Monkey (Fez optional)
Peter Lee on the WotC board
BAD WOLF
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 11/06/2007 10:28 AM |
| | I think a lot of it is a sneak peak at the way things will be costed in 2e DDM. | | | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3939 Posts
USA
| | 11/06/2007 2:54 PM |
| I agree that this set seems powered down.Â
I also think it is a fairly well balanced set and should make for an interesting Limited Championship.Â
No tier 1 pieces, but a lot of tier 2 pieces that might just make tier 1 warbands, IMO.Â
And this Mounted rules thing on the surface appears to be a red herring. I'm not impressed with them so far.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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ShadowLord XT
Commander
2646 Posts
Plane of Shadow
| | 11/06/2007 3:22 PM |
| | It almost looks like a 100 point set to me based on how the stats and points are given. | |
Disipline is the only way to overcome chaos.
Champion of Half-Golems
Knight of Golems
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 11/06/2007 6:42 PM |
| Posted By Sirohk on 11/06/2007 2:54 PM And this Mounted rules thing on the surface appears to be a red herring. I'm not impressed with them so far. 
Shhhhh! Let them figure it out after a few beatings. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 11/07/2007 2:16 AM |
| Dear Teo: Congrats for your baby and I wish you always be happy together.About your question Try this website (www.devir.es) or this (www.dracotienda.com).If not,you always have e-bay.And Xtina is amazing no matter the hair colour.
About the topic: I,m absolutely agree with shadowlord.This is clearly a 100 points set.This is horribly for current tier 1 metagame (200 or 500 points) because new minis will not see competitive play,making older sets much more atractive for skirmishers.No one can replace LBD and LShD?
And I asked myself if dragons will be the tier 1 minis in 2.0.no more useless dragons? | |
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 11/07/2007 2:48 AM |
| I do see one creature which might give a LShD warband a hard time.
But I'm not saying which until I have won bids for enough of them on ebay. 
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alepulp
Underboss
1540 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 11/07/2007 4:15 AM |
| | I suspect there are 3-4 genuine tier 1 - Capricious Dragon, Harpy, Astral Stalker and Eternal Blade. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 11/07/2007 6:45 AM |
| Posted By alepulp on 11/07/2007 4:15 AM
I suspect there are 3-4 genuine tier 1 - Capricious Dragon, Harpy, Astral Stalker and Eternal Blade.
I think that elf conjurer is on the list, it just takes a skilled and experianced player to use him right.
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I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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Talaeden_Denthiir
Sneak
64 Posts
| | 11/07/2007 8:57 AM |
| @ Pete,  Thanks for the kind words. The little ones grow up so fast. She says mama, dada, baba, no-no nie-nie, ñum-ñum, and she tries to say estoy volando (which means I'm flying;) She also crawls around alot and can walk around if you hold her hands and no matter what bad things happens, she just smiles and brightens up our day :) Her name is Amariel (Angel of love), since she was born 3 days b4 Valentines day ;) It's nice to hear from you again! I wrote you and Chris an email about 6 months ago (I have hotmail, and was just then able to access my old AOL account 'cuz it's free now;) about Marie and our Daughter going out to Wisconsin from Sept. 31st to Nov. 3rd (I had to work), but I didn't get a reply. So you probably have a new address?Â
  Congrats on the trophies! I've always been a fan of your work. So much so that when I paint minis I think, 'hmm... how would Peter Lee do this...' And you ran some major DDM tournaments at Gen Con right? Congrats on that. And Speaking of Congrats, if you see Chris (Tulach) congradulate him on his WotC Job :)
@ ILuvXtina,  Mil Gracias! Nuestra hija es un regalo del DÃos :) My wife and I are so blessed to have her in our lives :) I will try those websites. Where do you live in Spain, exactly? ?Naciste ud. en España? Es que mi madre es de los Estados Unidos aunque mi padre era de España (desafortunamente se murÃo cuando tenÃa dos años) y yo soy de NY. I miss Spain so much. The people, the food, the weather. I think my father's family was from Valencia, although I studied in Oviedo, Asturias. Nice to meet you :)
@ Minis,  Yeah, it does seem like Shadowlord is right. 100pt. set. That would also explain why the designers tout it (DDM '08) as being a much faster game even though there are no more morale saves (i.e. everyone just beats ppl down to 0 HP). At first I was skeptical about the new set and the new DDM game. Set wise the scuplts pictured online seemed lackluster and the marketing of the set leaved a lot to be desired. But, once I had some minis in hand I have to say I was impressed. Especially with the commons and uncommons. Since I can't afford to complete whole sets anymore, this really helps me in getting needed figs for RPG and even Skirmish.
  I do sincerely hope they make dragons more viable overall. I mean it is Dungeons and Dragons after all :) It's just weird that they resculpted the large copper dragon...
  On the powered down note, barring the epic cards, my players (who prefer Epic Play) are gonna be hard pressed to supplement their current warbands with decent figs from DoD because of the overall lower pt. cost and power level of the figs. :(
  But I guess we'll all have to wait and see next year how this will all pan out in the meta-game.
                     Hopefully optimistic,
                                        Teo
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 11/07/2007 11:14 AM |
| | I,m from Málaga in Andalucia.Good luck and nice to meet you too. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
524 Posts
| | 11/07/2007 1:02 PM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 11/06/2007 3:22 PM
It almost looks like a 100 point set to me based on how the stats and points are given.
Not exactly a 100 point set... more like a 10 activation set... | |
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www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 11/07/2007 1:18 PM |
| Ale, I would add the Fire Archon to that list...
But what do I know? | |
I am not gone. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 11/07/2007 1:40 PM |
| | I agree.For me,the fire archon is the star in this set | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 11/07/2007 1:49 PM |
| No one thinks that the Merchant Guard will become LG's new favorite filler? I mean, 20 free HP - sign me up!
Of course, this being a low cost mini, I have to agree with the "no powerhouses" assessment. Maybe the Rage Drake, Capricious Copper Dragon and the Angel... but otherwise I agree that this is more like a 100 point set. | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
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Talaeden_Denthiir
Sneak
64 Posts
| | 11/08/2007 11:46 AM |
|   I think the Mercenary General will see more use once more and more people tackle the mount rules. He's got a lot of potential. 20 damage/hit while mounted isn't bad. Not to mention his suite of commandersh abilities.  About the power level of the set, their are:
                               45 figs with cost 37 or lessÂ
                               12 figs cost between 38-50
                                 3 figs cost in the 50+ range (not counting their Epic Versions)
                               Â45 figs with cost 37 or less !!!!! That's 3/4 of the set!!!!!
                                Talk about a low powered set!!!!!
And Iluvxtina, I've been to Málaga. There is a castle that overlooks the entire city. It is beautiful. You are living in a wondrous place. I envy you right now :) Also, Antonio Banderas was from your city, so your city has a claim to fame ;) My ship sailed from Málaga when I went to Melilla. The whole trip was one of the most memorable of my life. Hay DÃos que echo España de menos!!!!!
                                     Eres tu muy bendigo, -a?
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 11/08/2007 2:31 PM |
| But then theres the elf conjurer...
Anyone remeber how loud the cries of 'BROKEN' where for the wizard tactian having a 15 damage magic missle with perfect targeting.
Yet the (non epic)Â elf conjurer barely makes a stir ...
But I do agree on a whole, a lot less minis that will enter the final spasm of DDM I tournaments. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 11/08/2007 2:35 PM |
| | Thank you very much for your kindness,Teo.I hope you can come back someday.Hasta luego,amigo. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 11/09/2007 10:53 AM |
| Posted By ShadowLord XT on 11/06/2007 3:22 PM
It almost looks like a 100 point set to me based on how the stats and points are given.
I´m totally agree with you. Is like we have a step back set, in matter of point cost, and not a powerfull miniature who are better than others in this set.
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Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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Dordledum
Commander
3463 Posts
Netherlands
| | 11/12/2007 5:03 AM |
| Don't underestimate Bruenor, definately a 200 pt piece.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 11/12/2007 1:35 PM |
| | The problem is clear and real: if pieces in DoD are very powered down,people will not play them in tournaments and main skirmish events.Price of tier 1 minis in older sets will surely grow up (LBD,LShD,werewolf lord,FGFP,etc,etc...) and the new set only will see not competitive play.It is something like: "WotC cannot control the power creep so,they will finish tha game with 2.0 and begin again".They want to change the metagame radically.What will I do with my 4 orc champs if they become useless in 2.0?This remembers me Magic:TG a lot | |
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Xerxes Naemyn
Skirmisher
47 Posts
| | 12/13/2007 3:26 PM |
| Attention Teo Delgado (Talaeden_Denthiir)
your old pupil from madison needs your e-mail address.
i've been trying to get a hold of you for awhile now but i'll keep things short on here. send me an e-mail at pyrozora@gmail.com.
-Tim Van Groll | | | |
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LordOfBlades
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 12/13/2007 3:50 PM |
| I fully agree that there aren't that many really powerful pieces. Some of them are interesting (Astral Stalker, Mercenary General, Fire Archon, Capricous Copper, Elf Conjurer Eternal Blade) but I really don't see anything that would impact the meta to the degree that Fire Giant Forgepriest or the Large Dragons did.
I think that the develpment of the DDM 1.0 stat cards for Desert of Desolation was done without too much enthusiasm as the DMM 2.0 was already on the horizon, and maybe they wanted to focus more on that rather than some stats that were going to be changed in a couple of months anyway.
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alepulp
Underboss
1540 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 12/13/2007 5:05 PM |
| Yes, it's weaker - here's the proof - average value of a mini in each set:
So I queried Bifur... and this is why:
Set AvgOfCost
Harbinger 16.9125
Dragoneye 21.76666667
Aberrations 23.88333333
Desert of Desolation 29.16666667
Archfiends 32.56666667
Deathknell 34.06666667
Underdark 35.16666667
Wardrums 36.73333333
Unhallowed 36.96666667
Night Below 37.31666667
Blood War 38.41666667
Angelfire 40.21666667
Gts of Lgd 57.55555556
WotDQ 65.61666667
The first three sets we 100 pt sets... so I can understand the sub 30 pt average. DoD is way down. GoL and WoDQ are, for obvious reasons, at the top. | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 12/13/2007 5:40 PM |
| Posted By Dordledum on 11/12/2007 5:03 AM
Don't underestimate Bruenor, definately a 200 pt piece.
D.
I agree I used a Bruenor CoDD band and totally obliterated a Werewolf Lord band resently, Champs with speed 6 are deceptive.
I think we are seeing a sneak preview of DDM 2.0 and ten activations, a lot of DoD1 is priced in the 30's and 40's and a good chunk in the 20's,just right for 10 activation era. | | | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/13/2007 9:15 PM |
| | The nice thing with the powering down of Desert is limited events. Everyone in our play group feels that it's easily the best set for limited balance. No unbeatable titans. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 12/13/2007 9:50 PM |
| | Desert of Desolation was developed for 10 figure limit, it's too cheap to always be effective enough for 8 figure limit. Anyone who thinks the set is balanced is on crack. | |
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Pedro
Commander
3926 Posts
Czech Republic
| | 12/14/2007 5:50 AM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 12/13/2007 9:15 PM
The nice thing with the powering down of Desert is limited events. Everyone in our play group feels that it's easily the best set for limited balance. No unbeatable titans.
Really?
There is this CG commander with initiative bonus two times higher than the rest of the figs...but otherwise, that's the only con for the set from Limited perspective. A lot of good figs with no real suckers.
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2007 & 2008 Czech Republic Champion
2008 Czech Republic's Player of the Year
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Next Icon Called Shot: Baldur's Gate pack - Khalid, Jaheira, Minsc (and BOO!), Imoen, Xan, Sarevok...
Against the Giants Called Shot: Phoenix (/no luck)
Demonweb Called Shot: Yagnoloth (I like demons!)
Feywild Called Shot:
Starter 2009 Called Shot: | |
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Talaeden_Denthiir
Sneak
64 Posts
| | 12/16/2007 1:49 AM |
| Xerxes,   Wow!! Long time no anything!! Nice to see you are still playing minis! I wrote you an email about 5 minutes ago.    :)  And thanks, our bundle of joy is a handful, but well worth it. It's hard not to smile around her :D |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/16/2007 7:03 PM |
| Posted By Pedro on 12/14/2007 5:50 AM Posted By Thenameless on 12/13/2007 9:15 PM
The nice thing with the powering down of Desert is limited events. Everyone in our play group feels that it's easily the best set for limited balance. No unbeatable titans. Really? There is this CG commander with initiative bonus two times higher than the rest of the figs...but otherwise, that's the only con for the set from Limited perspective. A lot of good figs with no real suckers.
While it is very good for limited play, the Eternal Blade has nowhere near the dominance that Bahamut/Tiamat had during the WotDQ prereleases. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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