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Kat_Dawg33
Warrior
291 Posts
    
USA
 | | 01/04/2008 12:51 PM |
| OK, maybe this isn't new.  Forgive me if this is something old and it has been discussed before...
It may not even be real, maybe I'm crazy. You folks tell me...
Anyway, three times in the last month I've been outbid only to be offered a "second chance". Most recently I was outbid, and there was time left, so I did the math on the pieces (a highly sought after uncommon x3) and decided based on the popularity, recent selling price, and of course my own want of the minis, that it would be reasonable to up my bid. I'm winning again. DANG, outbid again, I wanted those... How badly? Well, I went against my standard practices (and there weren't any others up for sale) and up'd my bid again. Again, I'm winning. But, before the auction ends (somewhere after my bedtime), I'm outbid again. And that's when it hit me... And I started thinking, "I bet I get another second chance offer"! And I did!
And of course, the second chance offer is for my max bid. Is it possible that the seller has a second Email address (or accomplice) where they outbid folks and then offer the piece back to the person at their highest bid? Thus, getting the max for the mini/from the buyer! Smells a little funny to me.
This may be a common practice that folks know about, and maybe I'm slow. But until a month ago, it had only happened to me once. But with the recent frequency of these events, the light came on.
Any thoughts? | |
Champion of "Ember, Monk Champion"
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| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 01/04/2008 1:17 PM |
| It could happen.
It's also possible that the seller has more than one set of the figures, seeing the demand is there with multiple bids it would make sense to make the second chance offer.
Kind of hard to say, it's only ever happened to me a couple times. Both times I'd already purchased another from a different buyer so I didn't take them up on the second chance. | | | |
| Man of Renown
Wraithborne
Warlord
5334 Posts
The Red Light District
| | 01/04/2008 2:02 PM |
| | I know it happens, as I had a friend of my brother's get banned for doing it, and it's something I've thought was happening to me a few times. From a seller's point of view though, ebay gives you the option to second chance stuff and I've done it before when bidding has been good and I had another of whatever mini it was. | |
Eye dun no why youse guys think im not relly a person im jimgang from canada but im moving to cali as soon as i get a master card
-Jimgang
So, you stand at your grave, Has your soul yet been taken away?
So you can't read what's engraved, Is this Heaven or merely Decay?
Was there a light, enchantingly bright, A Question, just how did it end?
Just let me sift through your calm remains, And tear you away from your skin.
-Sumerias Fain. | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6844 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 01/04/2008 2:48 PM |
| | I would report it to ebay and ask them to find out. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
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ScruffyRanger
Sergeant
363 Posts
Central Coast AUSTRALIA
| | 01/04/2008 4:07 PM |
| Apparently if the shill-bidders don't get you the postage pirates will...
Can I have the item number(s) in question? | |
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desiderata
Sneak
84 Posts
Arizona, U.S.
| | 01/04/2008 4:24 PM |
| I have a fishy story as well, but from the point of the seller (me). In this case, after selling many minis auctions on ebay, I received a message from one winner of an auction stating that he/she received a Second Chance Offer on another of my auctions and was wondering if, indeed, I had sent that.Â
I had not sent any Second Chance Offers and told them so. But I couldn't find out how to report it to Ebay. I also don't know how it happened.Â
I've also had someone try to hack into my Paypal account shortly after I sold stuff on Ebay. But, luckily, Paypal's security stopped it, and I forwarded them the scam email.Â
Anyway, there's some scandalous people out there, so if there are red flags, I think it's good to be skeptical.
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Trade History:
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 01/04/2008 4:33 PM |
| It happens for sure.
And wouldnt be hard to do: set up different user name, bid crazy, and if you do win, send off the second chance. And the seller doesnt really stand to lose much.
Did all these cases happen from same seller? Then I would be really suss about it. I'd check the feedback ratings and bid histories of the bumping username too if possible.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Kat_Dawg33
Warrior
291 Posts
USA
| | 01/04/2008 6:07 PM |
| posted by ScruffyRanger 01/04/08 4:24PM
Can I have the item number(s) in question?
I would send you the item number in question, but I would prefer not to post it. The seller has over 1000 feedback rating and 99.3% rating. I have no proof they did this, but a light came on when I noted the frequency of these second chance offers. Maybe some have done this and maybe some are legit, how can I know..?
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Champion of "Ember, Monk Champion"
Vindicated Champion of the "Mounted Dragon Knight" | |
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Kat_Dawg33
Warrior
291 Posts
USA
| | 01/04/2008 6:27 PM |
| posted by Bert the Troll 01/04/08 4:33PM
It happens for sure.
And wouldnt be hard to do: set up different user name, bid crazy, and if you do win, send off the second chance. And the seller doesnt really stand to lose much.
Did all these cases happen from same seller? Then I would be really suss about it. I'd check the feedback ratings and bid histories of the bumping username too if possible.
The first two times happened Dec 16th and they were by the same seller. I can't see who it was that outbid me. The most recent happened this week and the person that outbid me has an 18 feedback with 100% rating. | |
Champion of "Ember, Monk Champion"
Vindicated Champion of the "Mounted Dragon Knight" | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/04/2008 8:22 PM |
| | I don't have much experience with ebay, but I've always wondered myself if people would do this when they know they are selling popular items. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 01/05/2008 1:36 AM |
| Posted By Thenameless on 01/04/2008 8:22 PM
I don't have much experience with ebay, but I've always wondered myself if people would do this when they know they are selling popular items.
Perhaps though I'm not sure if a 3X uncommon auction would be worth it. Granted I'm sure it happens when the seller doesn't want something to sell too low but also doesn't want to put a reserve on the item, because reserves turn buyers off. It's one of the many problems with hiding behind a bidder name. The same privacy policy that protects individuals makes it easy to cheat buyers. | |
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yack
Commander
3321 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 01/05/2008 5:08 AM |
| | I'm pretty sure this happens...like when they try to get you to buy the mini you just bid on till the very end for the very last price you picked. On the last second it jumps and you stop bidding and then the seller tries to sell you mini stating that he has more then one or the winner didn't come through. | |
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ScruffyRanger
Sergeant
363 Posts
Central Coast AUSTRALIA
| | 01/05/2008 5:09 AM |
| | Keep in mind also, second chance offers attract no listing fee for the seller AND, Kat_Dawg, at 99.*% 1000+ the chances of them shilling are pretty slim. That said... first time for everything. If you would like to provide me with the item number at a later stage, I can pass it off to Liz for analysis... shes pretty badass :) | |
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Kat_Dawg33
Warrior
291 Posts
USA
| | 01/05/2008 6:13 AM |
| Hey ScruffyRanger,
I sent you the item number in an Email thru Maxminis. Hope that was OK. I wasn't orriginally looking to accuse anyone, but I'm now currious.
I don't necessarily suspect that this seller did it. It's just that with my getting a few second chance offers in a short time, it made me realize how easy it would be to do.
I've noticed a lot of minis have had a price fall. One of the minis I had a second chance offer on was the Drow Cleric of Lolth. If I had been paying attention, I would have taken that at $24. But I was away from my computer for a time and missed the window. I had also seen one or two of these sell for cheaper. Some of these high end peices have fallen and it's costing the sellers pocket book.
It doesn't seem likely for 3x uncommon to me either, but when you figure that these three would have fetched $12 plus a few months ago and I think you have a shot at less than $7 now... maybe trying to get that $5 extra is worth it. I don't know. It's all hypothetical, and I'm not accusing anyone. Just wanted thoughts. | |
Champion of "Ember, Monk Champion"
Vindicated Champion of the "Mounted Dragon Knight" | |
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XAos
Underboss
2413 Posts
London
| | 01/05/2008 10:13 AM |
| Personally I have never taken a "second chance" offer; I'd guess some are genuine. If the seller wants to try to force my bid, beyond my limit. I'm entirely happy form them to end up paying commision to e-bay while selling the item to themselves. :D
The ones that really surprise me are where I'm offered a 2nd chance, not at the highest bid I made. But at the bid by the final winner, by definition, that's more than I was willing to pay. | | | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 01/05/2008 11:02 AM |
| I've never received a second chance offering so don't know what to expect although I'd be careful, especially if I was getting my bid upped by the same person each time. Depending on the offer and the likelyhood of it being legit I would consider a second chance offer but then I don't bid more than I'd like to pay so the offer had better not be more than my bid.
As for feedback, my opinion is you take it all with a grain of salt. The only time eBay has fallen through for me to date was when dealing with a seller who had over a 1000+ rating with the vast majority of it being favorable. The item was a BIN Presell and I wasn't the only one screwed in the deal although I got my money back after bringing in the CC company. | |
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1928 Posts
| | 01/05/2008 11:36 AM |
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For every eBay seller who is shady enough to do that sort of thing, there are several hundred (thousand?) eBay bidders with a total lack of impulse control (and/or patience). It's most likely that there is a real buyer bidding against you, and in many cases sellers have duplicates of mass-produced items that they are happy to sell with a second chance offer to be sure that another copy will have been sold at a decent price (as opposed to the risk of having very few bids in the next auction).
Fortunately, a reasonably effective answer to impulsive bidders and the occasional shill bidding seller is the same: sniping auctions as close to the end as possible. Unfortunately, it often means spending more time at your keyboard, and a chance of missing an auction at a good price because you miss the end of the auction for some reason.
If you place bids in the last few seconds of the auction, it gives other bidders less chance to decide "well, maybe I could pay a little more" or "as long as someone else is willing to pay that much, it must still be a good price", and it gives the small percentage of sellers who are evil no time to try to feel out your high bid.
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Turboman
Warrior
212 Posts
| | 01/05/2008 12:53 PM |
| Posted By LCS on 01/05/2008 11:36 AM
For every eBay seller who is shady enough to do that sort of thing, there are several hundred (thousand?) eBay bidders with a total lack of impulse control (and/or patience).
I gotta agree with you on this, I've see some absurd bids in my day. I actually find it funny when people get into a huge bidding war and pay stupid amounts of money for something they could have BIN for half of what they end up paying. | |
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| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
12541 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/05/2008 1:11 PM |
| | It's when the irrational competitive sense kicks in, "must win at all cost". | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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ScruffyRanger
Sergeant
363 Posts
Central Coast AUSTRALIA
| | 01/06/2008 6:37 AM |
| | Hey Kat_Dawg33... I have nothing to report at this point, your message doesn't seem to have arrived :( | |
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dblizzard
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 01/06/2008 9:05 PM |
| Posted By Kat_Dawg33 on 01/04/2008 12:51 PM
And of course, the second chance offer is for my max bid. Is it possible that the seller has a second Email address (or accomplice) where they outbid folks and then offer the piece back to the person at their highest bid? Thus, getting the max for the mini/from the buyer! Smells a little funny to me.
I've only been offered a second chance offer once. I told them I would be willing to pay what the bidder who was below me in the list offered plus the minimum bid over that. After all, if the winning bidder hadn't bid what he wouldn't pay that's what I would have likely paid. In this case he said that was reasonable and it went through.
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Zoons
Underboss
1067 Posts
| | 01/07/2008 5:40 AM |
| The "schill bidder" thing has been around since the beginning of auctions. However, I always looked at it as useless (or ineffective anyway) for e-bay. If I bid my max I'm willing to pay and a schill overbids me, the seller should likely have to pay e-bay listing and selling fees just to re-list the item later. I don't know if that's in his best interrest or not. Setting a minimum sell price makes more sense, since if the item doesn't sell the first time, he can often get his re-listing for free if he decides that he's willing to sell it for less after all. Or, he has to eat his listing fee if it doesn't sell, which seems better than eating both a listing and selling fee.
Also, he has to keep track of multiple schill accounts/people so that he can ensure that the deal is reasonably hard to trace (which would get him banned at the very least).
More likely (in my mind), the seller has multiple items that he is trying to sell via direct contact, thus skirting some of the e-bay costs. If the bidder bites at the deal, he's likely to net a higher percentage of profit than he would have gotten by selling it as a separate listing.
I'd maintain my ground on what I was willing to pay when I originally bid, I'd never consent to what the final price was on an auction that I didn't win.Â
I'm not sure of the ethical implications of soliciting, directly, the ebay losing bidders to your wares, but I'd suppose the original selling item is percieved as a means of advertising for the seller. Which is kind of a nice way to advertise as it gives potential customers an instant look at not only your merchandise, but your reputation as well.Â
Note: Keep in mind that I am not an impulse buyer. If I am overbid on an item, I VERY RARELY will increase my bid again. Sellers, and schills generally prefer impulse buyers, as they are more easily taken advantage of. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
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tundrin
Sergeant
425 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 01/08/2008 10:05 AM |
| Anyone that does a lot of ebaying should watch the Weird Al Yankovic video "I bought on Ebay" on youtube.
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Champs 2007 Top 16, Team Amish Class of 2007
Seeking Northern NJ DDM'ers - "There can be only one" (I hope not)
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Shottglazz
Underboss
1184 Posts
Quinte West, Ontario, Canada
| | 01/08/2008 10:18 AM |
| | Also, keep in mind that offers made outside of eBay's auction system are not protected by eBay...so if someone offers you an unofficial "second chance" and they don't deliver, there is no recourse through eBay... | |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, take my land, take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me."
Completed trades ( 53 ): Pikel, Darrell x2, JeffDHarvey, BiggPappa001, Ghendar, Valinrook X2, Wolfgang x4, Wraithborne x6, Mr Ruffles, Anothermullen, CKissee x3, Browns_Scoundrel, Kyrin, GuJiaXian x2, Tyngfumv, Basic_Aim, Mickey Mouse, Berus316, Crisisman, Zoons, Rockfrd, Sterling40 x2, Brucemc, 2007 Magical Mystery Trade, Redskullz x2, Stephengroy, Lyus_Sleyden, Foolforthought, 2008 Magical Mystery Trade, Kilsek x4, Generic Fighter, Auric, Relientkitten x3
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Bad trades ( 2 ): LeftEyeofGruumsh, Yotebeth | |
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Thailfi
Sergeant
956 Posts
| | 01/08/2008 10:58 AM |
| I don't think it is anything as elaborate as a seller watching his auctions and bidding with a dummy account to up his sales price. That would require too much effort on the part of the seller to make it worthwhile and would quickly become suspicious.
What I think really happended is that the seller has a ton of inventory and is listing on Ebay over time instead of flooding the market all at once so supply doesn't outstrip demand and lower prices. The seller went to monitor his closed auctions and noticed the closing price of your auction. He thinks to himself "Wow, that's pretty high compared to the usual selling price. I have several of those figures. Let's see if I can get above market prices for them by offering second chances to all these guys that bid on this one and didn't win."
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Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7908 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 01/09/2008 12:31 PM |
| Could be extras. I've done that before, if the 2nd highest bid is a good enough price to sell at.
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