Posted By Wraithborne on 01/24/2008 10:45 AM
Starting on April 15th, 2008, the DCI adds a new format to Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Game tournament play.

Q. When do blocks rotate out of the Standard format?

A. When the first set of a new year’s block is released, the block from two years earlier rotates out of the Standard format. For example, when Set 18 is published in March 2009, the 2007 block (Unhallowed, Night Below, and Desert of Desolation) will rotate out of the Standard format. This rotation keeps the play environment from becoming stagnant and makes it easier for new players to get involved in tournaments.

Posted By doubtofbuddha on 01/24/2008 11:01 AM
I don't get the pessimism. They are supporting Vintage with a Championship from the get go. If you don't like standard, and want to do all Vintage then you just play Vintage. What is the big deal? Personally, I will play both, because of my interest in the larger tournaments. Though I do wonder what will happen to the limited Championship.

Posted By Wraithborne on 01/24/2008 1:33 PM

My pessimism comes from two things. First, I think Vintage will end up like Dreamblade, supported at first, but soon ignored.

Second, things coming out of the woodwork like this (we're not redoing any but all-stars, OK we'll do 'em all, Yeah, we're doing 'em all, but they'll only be good for vintage, Insert next whimsical change here) tend to hint that they really don't know what they're doing and are just making it up as they go along. Seeing as how they have been working on 4e since shortly after 3.5 came out and should have known then that they would change the mini game to correspond, you would think that there would've been some sort of plan in place.

Posted By Wraithborne on 01/24/2008 1:33 PM
My pessimism comes from two things. First, I think Vintage will end up like Dreamblade, supported at first, but soon ignored.

Second, things coming out of the woodwork like this (we're not redoing any but all-stars, OK we'll do 'em all, Yeah, we're doing 'em all, but they'll only be good for vintage, Insert next whimsical change here) tend to hint that they really don't know what they're doing and are just making it up as they go along. Seeing as how they have been working on 4e since shortly after 3.5 came out and should have known then that they would change the mini game to correspond, you would think that there would've been some sort of plan in place.

Posted By doubtofbuddha on 01/24/2008 11:01 AM
I don't get the pessimism. They are supporting Vintage with a Championship from the get go. If you don't like standard, and want to do all Vintage then you just play Vintage. What is the big deal? Personally, I will play both, because of my interest in the larger tournaments. Though I do wonder what will happen to the limited Championship.

Posted By Turboman on 01/25/2008 12:48 AM
Many players just don't like the idea that they will have miniatures that will become unusable for any specific format. If standard becomes the commonly played format and no one wants to play vintage, the guy that owns vintage miniatures won't be happy. Just the fact that such a thing even could happen is upsetting. If they can support vintage as a format for DDM that'd be great but I doubt that will happen in the long run. The concept failed with Magic, how are they going to make sure it doesn't fail with DDM?

Posted By Corim Danex on 01/25/2008 8:10 AM
The problem is, there are already enough formats. When you keep adding formats, it gets more difficult to get support (from WotC, stores, and players interested in participating) each one. It hurts the game.

Posted By kritter on 01/25/2008 2:52 PM
My prediction:

they will updated there scheduled sets and 2 more and then announce "there isn't enough fan base to bother supporting DDM Vintage"
followed by,
" please buy some new boosters and play Standard, thanks"


this will be the standard answer and it won't matter how many people are playing it

Posted By doubtofbuddha on 01/24/2008 11:01 AM
I don't get the pessimism. They are supporting Vintage with a Championship from the get go. If you don't like standard, and want to do all Vintage then you just play Vintage. What is the big deal? Personally, I will play both, because of my interest in the larger tournaments. Though I do wonder what will happen to the limited Championship.

Posted By Zyla on 01/25/2008 10:07 PM
But what about my question on designing figures to work with both formats? Will figures be designed with Vintage in mind or is the Vintage format doomed to have 80 pages of errata and a ban list a mile long like Legacy MTG has?

Posted By Thenameless on 01/25/2008 10:39 PM

Here's our roller-coaster ride.  Long, long ago, I read on the WotC boards that Ian Richards himself didn't want to go to set rotation for DDM.  Then 2.0 comes out, with only 60 All-Stars to be carried forward.  Huge uproar from fans of older minis.  Wizards decides that all older minis will be updated to 2.0.  Yay!  Now, they introduce two formats, and the one called Standard does not include older minis.  Why?

Posted By Wraithborne on 01/24/2008 10:45 AM Starting on April 15th, 2008, the DCI adds a new format to Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures Game tournament play. Standard Rotation Schedule for 2008 April 15: Standard format debuts with Unhallowed, Desert of Desolation, and Dungeons of Dread. June 1: Night Below rotates into Standard (using updated stats published online in May). July 4: Against the Giants rotates into Standard. August 1: All-Star set rotates into Standard (using updated stats published online in July). November 7: Demonweb rotates into Standard. Some Frequently Asked Questions: Q. When do blocks rotate out of the Standard format? A. When the first set of a new year’s block is released, the block from two years earlier rotates out of the Standard format. For example, when Set 18 is published in March 2009, the 2007 block (Unhallowed, Night Below, and Desert of Desolation) will rotate out of the Standard format. This rotation keeps the play environment from becoming stagnant and makes it easier for new players to get involved in tournaments. Q. Will the All-Star set be updated after later sets rotate out of Standard? A. Yes. We want the All-Star set to reflect an exciting cross-section of older miniatures, and we’ll work with the D&D Miniatures players each year to determine what changes are appropriate for the set.

Posted By Krush on 01/26/2008 1:07 AM

This whole Standard vs Vintage is giving me a big headache.  I can't understand why they are doing it. My income is limited as I have three kids, 2 of which are teenagers. Now you know where the money goes. To play Standard, if I am reading into this right, it'll only include the newer 3 plus future sets. I don't have the spare $$ to spend on 2-3 cases like others. That being said, they are more than capable to field a capable 2.0 warband at any time. I myself, cannot and therefore will consider, when going to league play and when not to, depending on the format.
As for the set rotation..."the nameless" noted, fans were excited that all older minis would be upgraded to 2.0.  Not to be, thanks to set rotation and I think that Wizards has pulled a dangle dangle yank on us and I, myself don't F******G like it.

My spew,

K 2.1

Posted By Shottglazz on 01/26/2008 2:46 PM
Ian, I would also like to thank you for posting your comments. With all the negativity in this thread (mine included), it takes a lot to state calmly and clearly why your division made the choices it did. I'd like to think that regardless of what we think of those choices, we can all respect you for doing so.