Posted By mazra on 03/24/2008 1:32 PM
Hi CD,

You made many good points. I agree with them all. I really don't blame WotC for putting Drzzt in the Icingdeath set. It made that Icon set more desirable to those that did not have an Archfiends Drzzt. And WotC did at least make it a different sculpt. Wulfgar however was just STUPID.

I too look forward to good resculpts of many of the minis. Having two different Umber Hulks is not bad. I will not even mind getting a another Young Large Red Dragon. But when WotC loses opportunities as they did with Zaknafein and Tanis, all I see is just STUPIDITY!

Later,

Mazra

Posted By Corim Danex on 03/24/2008 1:44 PM

I would have preferred a real Tanis (improve the sculpt paint to get it more spot on).

I don't know who Zaknafein is, though I did like the common drow that looked really good, as I was able to snag up a bunch.

Posted By greyhaze on 03/24/2008 1:34 PM
I don't think they're losing any money or sleep over having 2 wulfgar's and multiple Drizzts. SWM puts a Boba Fett, Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker in almost every set, they seem to be doing fine.

Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/24/2008 1:58 PM
Concerns and criticisms are fine, and no attacks against individuals appear to have been leveled. However, in order to maintain civility, I must ask that the attacks against WotC stop.

It's one thing to disagree, it's another to call them stupid.


Dave

Posted By Bert the Troll on 03/24/2008 3:17 PM
Star wars pays for dupe characters with diferent skirmish stats.
In lots of ways, imo, star wars mini buyers are a bigger % of skirmishers to RPGers than D&DM.

My impression is that WoTC tend to try and play middle ground with colectablity, so keep some minis ultra rare by not releasing newer scuplts, but are very keen to bring in new players which seems to equal 'popular' minis re-released over n over.

Posted By Pedro on 03/24/2008 3:29 PM
There is laso the second aspect of collectability...some people do not suffice with the new Silver, they need to have the old one as well.

The SW indeed has a smaller character base and they come with various skirmish stats.

Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/24/2008 3:54 PM


This is why they are not too concerned right now. They rebooted the game to notch down the importance of having the older sets. That's also the idea behind "standard" tournaments. Collectability is nice, but too much makes a large hurdle for new players to overcome.

Posted By Bert the Troll on 03/24/2008 4:08 PM

Posted By Teflon Jeff on 03/24/2008 4:15 PM

Posted By mazra on 03/24/2008 4:44 PM

Jeff, I am business man.  I always want new customers.  But equally I do not want to lose my old ones either.  Those that built my business.ÂFrom what I am hearing and reading WotC is doing things that may cost them their older customers.  This is not good for the continuation of the DDM line.

Later,

Mazra

Posted By mazra on 03/24/2008 4:44 PM

Hi Teflon Jeff,

It is not a matter of preception, it is a purposeful reality that WotC created from the start.  First WotC made some minis Rare and thus made fewer of these minis.  Second they randomized the boosters, so you had no idea what you were getting.  This made them collectible.  In turn this drove sells.  If WotC loses this vehicle that drives sells, Jeff, what do you think is going to happen?  Sells will fall and the line will end.

There are many ways WotC can work on new people entering the hobby without disrupting the one element truly driving sells.  Almost every set has a human, a dwarf, an elf, a fighter, a cleric, a magic user, an Orc, a goblin, a Drow, some type of Dragon, and some kind of other rare monster.  It is those other types of rare monsters that must be unique and exciting.  They must be desired for the new ones entering the hobby and for us old farts that have been collecting for a while.

Jeff, I am business man.  I always want new customers.  But equally I do not want to lose my old ones either.  Those that built my business.  From what I am hearing and reading WotC is doing things that may cost them their older customers.  This is not good for the continuation of the DDM line.

Later,

Mazra

My own guess is that WotC is going to crank out minis to support 4th edition D&D and that this is their primary purpose. The skirmish game is important, but it's secondary, and the collectible nature of things is probably tertiary. The RPG industry has driven sales all along, and I don't see why this will change.

It is not a matter of preception, it is a purposeful reality that WotC created from the start. First WotC made some minis Rare and thus made fewer of these minis. Second they randomized the boosters, so you had no idea what you were getting. This made them collectible. In turn this drove sells. If WotC loses this vehicle that drives sells, Jeff, what do you think is going to happen? Sells will fall and the line will end.

Posted By yack on 03/25/2008 5:02 AM
I have been around since Harb and have every mini and some. Prob around 4000 minis in total or a little over. Am I a collector for money? The answer is NO. I have them because I play D&D and thats the purpose not because of price.

Posted By Trokair on 03/25/2008 1:48 PM
Mazra,

My advice : Calm down! WotC, like many large corporations, does a lot of studying before they make million dollar decisions.

Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/25/2008 7:11 AM
The RPG industry has driven sales all along, and I don't see why this will change.

Dave

Posted By Ghendar on 03/25/2008 4:18 AM
WotC is not concerned about secondary minis values. It has no effect on their decision making.

Posted By mazra on 03/25/2008 2:50 PM
...
RPG drive sales, but if the minis are not desired for RPG, then there goes the sales.  Desirability is the key.

I trust you are a DM as I am.  Would you like a Huge Green Dragon?  I know that it is one of the key minis that has not been released.  It could make an entire set more desirable.  As a by-product it will make that mini very collectible too.  Any mini that is sought after or desired by the RPGers will also become collectible.  Deathknell Beholders are not going for $30 plus in the after market because of its skirmish value or because it is a good looking figurine.  It is because it is desirable to RPG players.  My whole point is that it is incredibly important that WotC keep making desirable figurines.  Minis that all of us, old customers and new will want in our collection.  I am just not convinced that WotC is interested in their old customer right now.

Posted By Vrecknidj on 03/25/2008 3:11 PM
But, they also don't want to release too many desireable minis in any given set.  They want people to continue to have a need to buy new sets.  You'll probably get your Huge Green Dragon eventually, but it's rather hard to guess when...

Dave

Posted By TheChuck on 03/24/2008 1:48 PM

Zaknafein is Drizzt' father.Â

Posted By mazra on 03/25/2008 2:05 PM
Hi Trokair,

Welcome to the maxminis board.  You have far more faith in the corporations that I do.  I personally have seen too many failures to hold much regard to many corporate decision making processes.  You only have to look as far back as Dreamblade to see what could happen to DDMs if poor corporate decisions are made.  Do you not beleive that WotC did a lot of studying before launching Dreamblade?  But where is Dreamblade now?  Look back at Wizkids and what happened with the collectible minis game Mage Knight.  Where is it now?

I have an alterior motive Trokair.  I want to see the DDM line last for years and years to come, but I see way too many cracks in the foundation right now.  My motivation is for someone at WotC to think carefully at the sets, who their customers are now, past and future, and make the very best decisions going forward.  The collectible aspect is very important to the continuation of the line.  It is not like baseball cards.  The cost to manufacture minis is far greater.  There is greater risk and likely much smaller margins.  The first DDM set that does not make a profit, with a company like Hasbro, may be the last set you see.

Later,

Mazra

Posted By Corim Danex on 03/25/2008 5:36 PM
Actually, the main designer of DDM left DDM to do Dreamblade, and there may have been other designers who went with him. It was a lot of the same people. I don't think it was a good idea, especially to give the minis a different base so that people who might want Dreamblade minis for D&D (I admit that the amount of possible D&D minis was much smaller than I would have liked anyway) may have been turned off. Dreamblade, I believe, shows what happens when you try to do a skirmish game without an RPG counterpart. Well, and what happens when 90+% of the miniatures are bizarre twisted funk.

Posted By Trokair on 03/25/2008 5:17 PM


Awesome to hear from you Mazra.  I live in