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Subject: irresponsible WOTC's

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Turboman
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05/28/2008 9:28 AM  
Considering the fact that they are nowhere close to where they need to be for 4th edition and the DDI online stuff I think we're looking at a huge pit of promises that will never get filled at this point. Facts are facts, they are currently poised to fall flat on their faces.


stephengroy
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Tempe AZ Beeyotch

05/28/2008 10:33 AM  
I think the primary point is that Hasbro really doesn't know WotC's customers. They can make all the toys they want, but when it comes to strategic games, that's another matter.

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oldben
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05/28/2008 10:35 AM  
Although I'm not a big tournament player, I don't like the implications of their neglecting the conversions from 1.0 to 2.0. Makes one lose confidence in their ability to adequately support the game.
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Sector 2814

05/28/2008 11:10 AM  
Posted By oldben on 05/28/2008 10:35 AM
Although I'm not a big tournament player, I don't like the implications of their neglecting the conversions from 1.0 to 2.0. Makes one lose confidence in their ability to adequately support the game.


Very true, it erodes the customer support.

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Tempe AZ Beeyotch

05/28/2008 11:45 AM  
*laughs*
WHAT customer support?

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iluvxtina
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Spain

05/28/2008 1:47 PM  
I do not know anything about WotC policy.But I,m playing D&D since harbinger and right now,my insterest for the new sets are dropping seriously (I have ordered only one DofDr case).We used to be 16 or more players in my D&D game zone but since 2.0 released we are only 8 or 9 or 10 the max.People is leaving the game and no newcomers (at least here).Have not WotC seen this?They only know how to make clones in last and new sets!Clones and clones

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05/28/2008 1:50 PM  
Posted By stephengroy on 05/28/2008 11:45 AM
*laughs*
WHAT customer support?


It was a joke:)

--

I'd really want to know what are they thinking. At school, they keep telling us to communicate with customers, because you need to sell the thing. You can't sell it if you ignore the customer. Why are they ignoring us?

Would an apology really screw their image so much? Or would it better it?

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05/28/2008 3:19 PM  
Individually I have 0 problem with what Wotc is doing. I just don't. The only thing I don't like is that even if I would do the same thing in their shoes, it's gotten to the point where the resentment could cause a moderate part of the player base to disappear from DDM. I could care less about 99 percent of peoples issues of the game, they dont bother me, having the game disappear due to lack of interest bothers me.

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Lord_rock
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05/28/2008 4:52 PM  
A company that continues to disapoint and then fails to communicate with fans is one that is going to go down if they are not careful. Peoples concerns are very valid due to this reason if not the other million.

So time and resources are concerns... Let us playtest BETA stats for problems and errors... We have no art department to bog us down and couldn't care less about official cards for BETA stats...

There is so much that can be done that is not. I know they are busy... Make it happen... We make cards for crying out loud... Print em and sell em so hasbros profits rise and they can give the game adequate resources to survive.

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SLC, UT

05/28/2008 5:08 PM  
Seems like DDM is going through the "Homelands" stage. A problematic reset (Chronicles) followed by lackluster output (Fallen Empires/Homelands) leads to massive player unrest. Hopefully DDM (and D&D) will follow the MtG pattern and continue through to a superior product (MtG now is far better than it once was despite having a lame meta--faeries, faeries, everywhere...).

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05/28/2008 5:42 PM  
I know its tough to be positive right now, but we as a community need to keep these forums positive. i'm guilty of it too. For WotC, its just going to come across as annoying static, but for the community its going to be deadly. If you really need to vent, here's the WotC Customer service line. Remember you can ask for supervisors if you really want to make a splash. From the WotC page:


Call us at 1-800-324-6496 if in the US or Canada. Call us at 425-204-8069 if you are outside of North America. Our Customer Service contact center is available to handle your phone call or email

Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST


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West Valley City, Utah

05/28/2008 5:43 PM  
bshugg, I am a bit past the point that I think they are listening anymore.

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Mud Lick, Kentucky

05/28/2008 6:39 PM  
Not to mention that message boards are for *gasp* talking about stuff and not just about being positive about everything.

WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!

Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM

Turboman
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05/28/2008 6:42 PM  
Yes, instead of complaining somewhere the actual D&D Miniatures creative team might see contact the WotC Customer Service line and complain to a person who has nothing to do with D&D Miniatures whatsoever.  And of course when you make that call, use as many swear words as possible because they can't do anything to fix the problem.


Bert the Troll
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Adelaide

05/28/2008 7:05 PM  
Complaining to customer support is imo an important part of the process if you're unhappy with something.

Its then logged in the offcial red tape, becomes a statistioc rather than a group of people upset on message board.

( its still fine to discuss etc on the boards, but you should do the cust support thing too)

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05/28/2008 7:59 PM  
I'm almost 100% certain that calling customer service will get us better results than b~ing on a message board thats seen by maybe 3-4 people at WotC who are not very likely to share with their coworkers. At best we just drive them away from this board completely. company execs care very much for feed back from their customer service groups. Who's more likely to get results in a company, the upper management who gets reports on customer service and who's job depends on keeping the customers happy with all their products or the new guy working on DDM that reads a fan message board?


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West Valley City, Utah

05/28/2008 8:18 PM  
Posted By bshugg on 05/28/2008 7:59 PM
I'm almost 100% certain that calling customer service will get us better results than b~ing on a message board thats seen by maybe 3-4 people at WotC who are not very likely to share with their coworkers. At best we just drive them away from this board completely. company execs care very much for feed back from their customer service groups. Who's more likely to get results in a company, the upper management who gets reports on customer service and who's job depends on keeping the customers happy with all their products or the new guy working on DDM that reads a fan message board?
Ok.  I will call them tomorrow.


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Lord_rock
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Portland OR

05/28/2008 9:05 PM  
No need to stay possitive as long as your negativity is well founded and logical. This has been a civil discussion so far about the lack of communication from the WOTC's as well as a lot of people chiming in about general distrust, serious thoughts of leaving the game, and voicing problems. Stay civil and don't degrade into "wotc's suck I'm outa here" or "I'm voting with my wallet" or cussing and swearing and we might actually get some attention as a mass rather than as a single person.

Do call customer service if you have the time... It is another step but will likely reach people who don't have any game control only staffing and product control. I would much rather have the design team see this and do somthing about it than have a hasbro uppity up see general disarisfaction statistics and fire somone or cut this product line.

Keep it civil... Keep talking... Keep the buzz going... Keep hoping for the best.

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Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

angelfiend
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05/29/2008 12:02 AM  

I agree with a lot of the posts in this thread suggesting that WotC has in fact become irresponsible.

I started playing in 2005, and to me those first few months of checking out minis' sculpts and stats will always be a great memory. It was pure excitement. But honestly if I try to take a step back and look at things without emotion, I really don't think I could have felt that same excitement had I gotten into D&D minis a few months ago.

I look at the sheer quality of the minis themselves as the starting point. They really have taken a nosedive. I repaint a lot of them, and thus have studied them in all their minute detail for hours. Strictly intellectually speaking, they are not very good now. I won't even tell you emotionally how I feel about that.

Then you've got what appears to be the lack of manpower, the whole alpha testing fiascos, products released with errors, the broken promises of what they are going to do, the flaws in the new rules the community immediately exploited, and the list doesn't end there.

I hope there is a next year for D&D minis, but at the same time, if that next year finds us looking at the same lack of quality in the product or the product support, I won't care.

Also, I loved Merric's website when I first started. I went there almost every day to check things out and read about this mini or that one. I agree that if he has decome disillusioned, then things have changed. All that drew me to D&D minis in the first place is fading. I was passionate, probably even fanatical, about the minis game. I couldn't even tell you now what day they typically post new previews. I browse the forums now out of dread--what bad news today?

I'm expecting the worst, not because I am negative, but because the red flags have started to fly everywhere I look.


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Mud Lick, Kentucky

05/29/2008 4:41 AM  
Better yet, write them an actual letter. Not a email, an actual letter.

WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!

Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM

Vrecknidj
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05/29/2008 7:11 AM  
Posted By Ghendar on 05/29/2008 4:41 AM
Better yet, write them an actual letter. Not a email, an actual letter.
A letter. Like "B" or "X"?



People still write letters?

Dave


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05/29/2008 7:12 AM  
From their Contact Us page:

Questions, Comments, and Feedback

We value your input, and we want to hear it. Whether you have a comment about the website, the magazine format, or, heck, your favorite character, you can reach us at dndinsider@wizards.com. Also, check out our message boards. We read them on a regular basis, and that’s often a good way to get our feedback, as well as that of your gaming peers.


Dave

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My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right!

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05/29/2008 7:15 AM  
And to reach their Customer Service webpage, click here.

That should take you to a page with this:

There are several ways to get help from the Customer Service team. Please choose the method that is easiest for you:

Find an Answer

Get immediate help by searching our database of Frequently Asked Questions 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. You can do this by selecting your topic and/or typing in your search term in the fields above. For a more detailed description of how to search for answers, check out this answer on our website.

Email or Call Us

Email a question, concern, or feedback to us by using the Email Us tab above. Once you click on that tab, you should see a log in screen. If you haven't used the Email Us tab before, just click on the button at the very bottom that reads Create a New Login and follow the instructions. After filling in some information, you will be able to enter your question or comment. Once you have completed that, click on the continue button below your entry. The knowledge base will attempt to answer your question by offering you a few possible solutions, but if none of these solve your problem or help you, make sure you click the Send Email button at the bottom.

or

Call us at 1-800-324-6496 if in the US or Canada. Call us at 425-204-8069 if you are outside of North America. Our Customer Service contact center is available to handle your phone call or email

Monday-Friday 9am-6pm PST / 12pm-9pm EST

Send Us a Letter

To send us a letter, please use the following address:

Wizards of the Coast
Attn Customer Service
PO Box 707
Renton, WA 98057-0707


Dave

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Mud Lick, Kentucky

05/29/2008 7:27 AM  
Posted By Vrecknidj on 05/29/2008 7:11 AM

A letter. Like "B" or "X"?
Hey, some of the best D&D modules started with the letters B and X, so don't you go mocking them.



WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!

Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM

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zenthrus
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SLC, UT

05/29/2008 8:07 AM  
This Customer Service complaint brought to you by the letters "B" and "X" and the number "6."

Written (meaning hard copy letters) consumer feedback tends to have greater impact these days than e-mailed feedback. WotC CS probably receives thousands of e-mails daily which have to be filtered/sifted/sorted and which ultimately probably only yield a handful of legitimate problems. I imagine they probably receive far fewer letters (which means less time spent filtering/sifting/sorting).


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05/29/2008 8:26 AM  
ohh look... no preview today... fun...let the letter writing comence...

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05/29/2008 8:58 AM  
So... what's new?


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Tempe AZ Beeyotch

05/29/2008 9:17 AM  
Posted By greyhaze on 05/29/2008 8:58 AM
So... what's new?


Not a %^*&(ing thing!
No Previews, no Unhallowed cards, and (laughing until falling out of chair) No Chainmail cards!

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Sector 2814

05/29/2008 10:12 AM  
ven better, you can make those letters attn: Shoe, or peter, or whoever you're trying to reach.

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05/29/2008 2:21 PM  
Posted By Teflon Jeff on 05/29/2008 10:12 AM
ven better, you can make those letters attn: Shoe, or peter, or whoever you're trying to reach.

That's not better.  Those are the ones that are ignoring me.

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Portland OR

05/29/2008 2:36 PM  
Here's the word:

Well, the news ain't good for Unhallowed in May. The last we heard, the cards are in proofing. That means they're nearly done, but much depends on how much other work is on the proofer's desk and how many errors need to be fixed when the job returns to typesetting. All we can say for certain at this time is that people are working on it and it is moving ahead, but given all the other projects that are currently doing the same thing, the finish date is an open question.

It should surprise no one that when a resource conflict occurs between this project and a new title that's been promised to distributors and retailers on a specific date, the job that's going to bring in the most money wins and the job whose delay will cause the least disruption to budgets loses. We're doing what we can with what we have. All we can do beyond that is ask folk like you to exercise some patience.

Steve

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm very glad someone finally said somthing. This could have come about a month ago... or at least 2 weeks ago and they would have been much better off. I hope they continue to talk to us rather than leaving us in the dark about underdark.

I'm still writing a letter.

I enourage you to do so as well.

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Adelaide

05/29/2008 3:14 PM  
Posted By iluvxtina on 05/27/2008 3:05 PM
I prefer they take more time to convert the unhallowed set than do not so.I explain myself:the large black dragon.This piece dominated all the past metagame during months and this is not healthy for a wargame like D&D.WotC ,take your time, test the minis well, make a very good playtesting and do not create powerhouses wich make this game boring.

Altough I agree with your reasoniong, I'd just point out that the delay is being blamed on graphics department, so the statistics were done on normal time, the wait is for pretty cards.

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05/29/2008 3:37 PM  
I could do alright doing graphic design like that. I don't think they're hiring, though if they are that concerned with bottom line for budget. I wouldn't mind a change of scenery. However, I would be scared to take a job that might only last a few months or years instead of a career job.

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Umass Amherst Baby!

05/29/2008 5:26 PM  
The photsobping doesn't sound all that hard, all you need are some stats and brapigics of the oldb carbsds.  Then you jiust cut anbt paste.

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The Red Light District

05/29/2008 9:41 PM  
Posted By Cthulhufnord on 05/29/2008 5:26 PM
The photsobping doesn't sound all that hard, all you need are some stats and brapigics of the oldb carbsds.  Then you jiust cut anbt paste.


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Umass Amherst Baby!

05/29/2008 11:06 PM  
Yes.
Posted By Wraithborne on 05/29/2008 9:41 PM
Posted By Cthulhufnord on 05/29/2008 5:26 PM
The photsobping doesn't sound all that hard, all you need are some stats and brapigics of the oldb carbsds.  Then you jiust cut anbt paste.


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05/29/2008 11:25 PM  
while you're up, get me one too?

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05/30/2008 1:30 AM  
Posted By Corim Danex on 05/29/2008 3:37 PM
I could do alright doing graphic design like that. I don't think they're hiring, though if they are that concerned with bottom line for budget. I wouldn't mind a change of scenery. However, I would be scared to take a job that might only last a few months or years instead of a career job.

We may never know the answer, as it seems (WoTC_Huscar on wotc boards) that basically conversions are done on someone's spare time. That's very professional...

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05/30/2008 1:35 AM  
I'm done with the Rum and Tonics, moved onto Cognac my fine fellow.
Posted By Temperance on 05/29/2008 11:25 PM
while you're up, get me one too?



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05/30/2008 9:57 AM  
Posted By Cthulhufnord on 05/29/2008 5:26 PM
The photsobping doesn't sound all that hard, all you need are some stats and brapigics of the oldb carbsds.  Then you jiust cut anbt paste.
Of course, that's quite simple. Someone bring me my brapigics!

Posted By warchanter on 05/30/2008 1:30 AM
Posted By Corim Danex on 05/29/2008 3:37 PM
I could do alright doing graphic design like that. I don't think they're hiring, though if they are that concerned with bottom line for budget. I wouldn't mind a change of scenery. However, I would be scared to take a job that might only last a few months or years instead of a career job.

We may never know the answer, as it seems (WoTC_Huscar on wotc boards) that basically conversions are done on someone's spare time. That's very professional...


Spare time meaning down time between other projects. It's on the schedule like anything else, and is something that is worked on in spurts.

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