It's on the schedule like anything else, and is something that is worked on in spurts.

Posted By Kevizoid on 05/30/2008 11:19 PM
and everyone saying they were horrible at their jobs and needed to be fired or something was courteous?

Posted By Wraithborne on 05/31/2008 11:17 AM
 If they didn't want the pressure and complaints that come with a deadline, they shouldn't have imposed one on themselves.

Posted By Ghendar on 05/31/2008 5:29 PM

And that's where the problems come in. Once you commit to a dealine, you have to follow through, not let the deadline pass with nothing and no explanation.

And the apologists continue to give them a free pass.

Posted By Kevizoid on 05/30/2008 11:19 PM
and everyone saying they were horrible at their jobs and needed to be fired or something was courteous?

Posted By Kevizoid on 05/30/2008 11:19 PM
yes their were several posts saying people should be fire, as well as "head rolling" .... (snip) ... and everyone saying they were horrible at their jobs and needed to be fired or something was courteous?

But then Jeff, people wouldn't feel entitled to personal apologies....

There has been outroar over it being a week late. I mean c'mon people, srsly?

Posted By Bert the Troll on 06/01/2008 4:39 PM
Its worth noting that a Wizo edited the 'In your face' comment citing 'baiting'.
( http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15981121&postcount=167 )

Posted By Kevizoid on 06/01/2008 5:26 PM
I actually found the "In your face" comment hilarious, as did some other guys in my group. People get upset over little things that "should" have very little effect over your lives. It was a defensive overraction on the player bases part. People will tend to do that, I've done it myself many times.


The initial deadline was "May". They got the stats done in april, passed it off down the line. They figured 20 was a good date. Then they get backlogged or swamped, and have to push pass their updated precise deadline. But they still made their initial estimate.

I was being facetious with the personal apology thing. I believe it was the old Sulaco who said that if Wotc came out with a box of money people would go on the boards and complain about how it was folded.

Another thing to think about, is if Wotc guys did indeed get swamped. Maybe they got another product out just fine, instead of lower priory UH cards. (which isn't that big of a deal, I mean come on take a step back and look at it). Do you think they are going to get glowing praise for that? People will complain no matter what you do. It's lose lose for them.


UH was out on the 28th I believe. 8 days is roughly a week, in the same way that 6 days is roughly a week.

Posted By Kevizoid on 06/01/2008 8:12 PM
Hmm not the 30th for sure. I could be wrong on the 28th, 29th then?

I'm just some teenage high school kid. I don't have a cool college degree, or fancy life experiences of having worked at some company who made 700 products in 4 hours in the snow for 15 miles and liked it... I don't have sophisticated wiki links to logical argument philosophy. I'm not gonna try and twist words back and forth. All I know is, I'm not upset over this, I'd make more noise of how UH stats weren't out like 2 weeks after the deadline. Other people can go off and be angry if they want. I'll just be less inclined to give any input whatsoever. You guys can have fun yelling back and forth about how wotc sucks. I don't think any of these "conversations" will go anywhere but spread negative feelings around with no effect to the actual product, only the community. (which as a whole has been less and less fun).


With that said, I'll bow out of this conversation. You all can go back to preaching to the choir.

Posted By Kevizoid on 06/01/2008 6:53 PM
dude John, the nazi stuff was like....last year...lol

Posted By Bert the Troll on 06/01/2008 7:50 PM
I only saw posts and the beta stats announced on the 30th. Looking at timestamps of forum posts announcing the unhallowed is how I get that date. That's ten days to me.  Not counting that its a bit weaselly to include beta release as the official release imo, or to ignore the floor rules as linked as evidence that its more than 8 days.
Please do point out (link) if I am wrong about the 30th date. 

I'm not overly surprised that vocal supporters found the remark funny. It's also clear that a lot of people, (including at least one Wizo) found the remark trolling. Ad hominem attacks that it was a defensive overreaction does not negate that it is very poor customer relations to tell your consumers to stick it, even if a few find it hilarious.
Neither is expressing a desire to punch customers who disagree with you acceptable or professional behaviour ever for a company but your mileage must vary on that too, or you find it humorous.

There is a world of difference between people that complain on everything, to those who have valid complaints. No doubt some people would complain about how money was folded. That some people complain over anything doesnt not logically lead to all people who complain are doing so over nothing.
I don't see the connection towards the folded money and your 'facetious' strawman.

Your scenario does miss one quite important option, which makes it yet another fallacy. You seem to be attempting to state that its acceptable that Wizards were unable to manage their product line well enough to do both cards restats and 'another product'.

It seems very few people defending wizards can do so with belittling those who disagree. Attacking the actual argument seems to hard or indefensible so they attack the poster (Over reactors, complainers about everything).

I also don't really care who in the company is voted to take the blame. From perspective of most people, WoTC is the company, R&D and Art and Web and play testing and management etc.

No comment on how long a delay (if any) you feel would be suitable to make an uproar over?  

Also, the posters relying on Reductio ad Hitlerum should be ignored imo. Godwin's law and all that.

I'm personally not bothered by the delayed unhallowed. The pseudo communication, the lack of the official web page being updated, (not just over unhallowed but with a whole range of things), a staff member who is rude when they do deliver on the late service, all show to me a lack of respect to the customer. That's what annoys me, and seems to be show casing the negative.

Posted By Username on 05/30/2008 11:40 AM


Like babies.

Posted By xuthal on 06/02/2008 2:02 PM
Is there an echo in here?

SGB

Posted By stephengroy on 06/02/2008 2:59 PM
Dude, they nerfed my bats!

Posted By Teflon Jeff on 06/02/2008 9:49 AM

What we have is multiple standards, and the impossibility of living up to them all. Some people (yourself included) want a professional, business-like rapport with the company. You want Customer Service to be professional and proper. Understandable, certainly.

Others want a more personal involvement with the company. This isn't maytag, I actually care about the product design process, the people making it, etc. These people (myself included) want a more friendship level of communication. We want Shoe to play at the community draft, and Linae to tell us about her pregnancy, just as we would want our other friends to do so. In this manner, we are willing to accept the personal foibles, just as we would with our closer friends. So, we wouldn't view "in your face" as an unprofessional remark (although it is, from that perspective) but as a remark from a friend, similar to how one might say it after a win in DDM, or a basketball game, especially if one had been hounded about it as well.

Posted By Bert the Troll on 06/02/2008 4:19 PM

(ps whats maytag?)

Posted By stephengroy on 06/02/2008 4:44 PM
What's Maytag?  The Washing Machine and home appliance company?

Wow, Bert, you must be a troll living out inna woods, or under a bridge subsisting on smallish goats!

LOL!