Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 05/31/2008 1:47 PM |
| I was counting my collection today on a one-by-one basis (with over 3,600, that took a while). I noticed something surprising. The bases from the minis from the most recent sets start to get a fuzzy white look when stored for several weeks. The older minis have solid black bases, and I rubbed the white off the recent ones to make it look blacker. This tells me that they changed the plastic to a lower grade recently, which is quite disappointing.
| | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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iluvxtina Underboss
 1497 Posts



 Spain
 | | 05/31/2008 2:07 PM |
| | Humm...I noticed it too.It looks like they are made of a lower quality plastic.It is dissapointing,yes but more dissapointing is the paintjob in and ridiculous sizes in the last set and WotC do not mind about that. | | LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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 zenthrus Commander
 4836 Posts



 SLC, UT
 | | 05/31/2008 2:22 PM |
| I thought the serious increase in warped bases was the dead giveaway in quality decline. My Harbinger bases are in perfect shape. Unhallowed/Night Below bases are almost all severely warped.
With the rising oil prices the only way to avoid rising costs for miniatures (made from some form of petroleum) is to change the formula to use less oil (thus decreasing the quality of the plastic). | | Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie? Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers Knight of the Large Dire Chicken Have/Want List Trade References | |
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Turboman Warrior
 212 Posts




 | | 05/31/2008 4:43 PM |
| | The paint jobs are not always bad just some but I'd also include the sculpts in there as well. We get flaming turds like the Runecarved Eidolon and Magma Brute which are probably the worst sculpts and paint jobs since uh... ever, then we have beauties like the Howling Hag and Emerald Orb Wizard which are simply impressive. You'd think that larger minis would be easier to paint nicely, apparently not. | | | |
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wicked cool Underboss
 2083 Posts




 | | 05/31/2008 5:13 PM |
| | then dont buy them. Not every paint job/miniature in the old sets were works of art. Lets not rewrite history. People used to complain about older miniatues all the time . One miniature was called WTF as a nickname. I cant disagree that some of the the mins in the recent sets are crap but not all of them. Stop complaining and do something about it. Stop buying,go to another mins company or create your own. I'm not a completist and i dont buy cases so the changes are minimal to me | | The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Turboman Warrior
 212 Posts




 | | 05/31/2008 6:37 PM |
| | "Don't buy them" fails to be a good argument when the company that makes the product puts it in a randomized sealed box. | | | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 05/31/2008 10:00 PM |
| | I was not talking about paint quality nor sculpt quality at all, wicked cool. I was talking strictly about the plastic. I noticed something today that I had not noticed before, as it had surprised me. I don't know what causes the black plastic bases in the more recent sets to start developing a funky powdery white on the surface. To me, this is inferior plastic. I don't get your comments about older minis art quality when I made no comment whatsoever about this in this thread. If you don't care about the quality of the plastic used, so be it. I was not advocating any course of action by simply pointing out that the quality of plastic is decreasing. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Ridureyu Underboss
 1622 Posts




 | | 05/31/2008 10:39 PM |
| Powdery white? You know, I thought that my Night Below was just gathering tons of dust. Interesting - can we get word on waht is causing this? Also, I found that the worst-quality plastic was in Blood War. Stuff from that set breaks if you look at it funny. | | Owner of The Original Rust Monsters! DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60 Dreamblade: All | |
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 Fun Guy from Yuggoth Cthulhufnord Warlord
 10802 Posts



 Umass Amherst Baby!
 | | 05/31/2008 11:15 PM |
| I was wondering about the powdery white stuff myself. I thought it had to do where I was storing the minis rather than the quality of plastic.
| | Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Ridureyu Underboss
 1622 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 12:50 AM |
| | We need a chemist. What's going on? How bad is the degeneration? | | Owner of The Original Rust Monsters! DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60 Dreamblade: All | |
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PaSquall Underboss
 1395 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 5:19 AM |
| No sign of degenerescence for me. I'll look after this though. From what you're saying, it could be that the new formula they're using hasn't been tested on a long-term basis and one or some of the additives do not mix well and segregate after a while. | | Vindicated Champion of the PSEUDODRAGON (Unhappy) vindicated champion of the DRYAD Against the giants called shot : huge cloud giant female Demonweb called shot : ghost | |
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Heavenstorm Skirmisher
 14 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 7:45 AM |
| | On what specific set did this lower quality plastic substitution start, by the way? Does it apply to the bigger Icons dragons as well? | | | |
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freedeath Sneak
 89 Posts



 Great White North
 | | 06/01/2008 8:51 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 05/31/2008 1:47 PM I was counting my collection today on a one-by-one basis (with over 3,600, that took a while). I noticed something surprising. The bases from the minis from the most recent sets start to get a fuzzy white look when stored for several weeks. The older minis have solid black bases, and I rubbed the white off the recent ones to make it look blacker. This tells me that they changed the plastic to a lower grade recently, which is quite disappointing.
My Night Below minis are covered in 'powder', but not any of the other sets; it's not evey mini from the set, either. The newer sets may not be 'old' enough to show this condition yet.
I really hope it's not some form of corrosion; I don't want my NB rares disintegrating. WotC will get an angry letter with a demand for compensation if they do. | | Life's a bowl of cultists.... _______________________________ Champion of the Scale-Creep Resistance ________________________ Champion of the Black Pudding | |
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Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7146 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 06/01/2008 10:20 AM |
| I wonder if it has to do with the clear plastic?
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 06/01/2008 11:58 AM |
| | This was not specifically clear plastic. I am sure Night Below had participants in the powdery problem. It may be that Desert of Desolation also did, but I am not sure about that set, nor am I sure about Dungeons of Dread. I think that nothing before Night Below was affected, but once again, I am not sure. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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MarioCleanstuff Warrior
 324 Posts



 San Diego, CA
 | | 06/01/2008 12:21 PM |
| None of my minis from any set seem to have this problem. Perhaps it's your storage solutions?
I doubt mine's the best in the world (keep them in the cardboard boxes from the cases), but my minis are all powder-free. | | Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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 Fun Guy from Yuggoth Cthulhufnord Warlord
 10802 Posts



 Umass Amherst Baby!
 | | 06/01/2008 12:49 PM |
| Mine were in a tacklebox in the basement, some humidiity; but not much more than the upstairs.
| | Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Turboman Warrior
 212 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 1:03 PM |
| | Most of mine have been in a tacklebox in a dry area, still collects some stuff on it but how do you tell the difference between the powder and dust? | | | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 06/01/2008 2:54 PM |
| | I don't know if there is really powder--I don't think there is powder. It is not a substance on the base, but more like the base starts to look like someone put a mist of powdery white stuff on it. When I wipe the base with my finger, nothing comes off. But the coloring reverts closer to black. There is very little humidity here. I usually have the minis in plastic containers. But the older minis have been in the same containers for much longer and have not been affected. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Ridureyu Underboss
 1622 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 3:08 PM |
| | I always thought it was dust - but the thing is that Night Below is the ONLY set that gets this. | | Owner of The Original Rust Monsters! DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60 Dreamblade: All | |
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paladin72 Sneak
 87 Posts




 | | 06/01/2008 10:58 PM |
| Well I hadn't looked at mine in a while, but some of my BW, UH, and NB have this problem.
My Wulfgar is bad, and one of my LBD's is ate up with it. Not just on the base, but it has moved up it's side.
Has anyone asked WotC about this yet? | | “There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.” | |
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Master of the Awesome Sauce Teflon Jeff Warlord
 7146 Posts



 Idaho. Yes, we have Gamers in Idaho.
 | | 06/02/2008 9:54 AM |
| I haven't noticed it on mine... But then again, I haven't been looking for it, either. perhaps I'll take a second gander.
| | Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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wicked cool Underboss
 2083 Posts




 | | 06/02/2008 10:16 AM |
| | Hopefully its just paint dust or regular dust. You are correct Corim when you say you were only talking about the dust and not sculpt quality,warped based or size creep. Other posters tried to take this thread there. I'm sorry if it came of as though i was jumping on you. | | The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 5841 Posts




 | | 06/02/2008 11:20 AM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 06/01/2008 2:54 PM I don't know if there is really powder--I don't think there is powder. It is not a substance on the base, but more like the base starts to look like someone put a mist of powdery white stuff on it. When I wipe the base with my finger, nothing comes off. But the coloring reverts closer to black.
This sounds like the plastic is separating, is it in hot temperatures? | | Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60, Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger. Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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stephengroy Underboss
 1362 Posts



 Tempe AZ Beeyotch
 | | 06/02/2008 11:33 AM |
| | Great WotC found a way to make minis ouf of plastic that decomposes faster than regular PVC | | Waiting for Chainmail Equivalencies since 2005
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 06/02/2008 12:20 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 06/02/2008 11:20 AM Posted By Corim Danex on 06/01/2008 2:54 PM I don't know if there is really powder--I don't think there is powder. It is not a substance on the base, but more like the base starts to look like someone put a mist of powdery white stuff on it. When I wipe the base with my finger, nothing comes off. But the coloring reverts closer to black. This sounds like the plastic is separating, is it in hot temperatures?
Well, it's indoor. Usually the temperature doesn't get much above 80 over the course of the year. What do you mean by hot temperatures? | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 5841 Posts




 | | 06/02/2008 1:03 PM |
| | Well, some plastic begins to separate (like decompose) under constant temperatures. Like it's settling. Just curious if you lived in a warm climate. | | Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60, Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger. Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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Ridureyu Underboss
 1622 Posts




 | | 06/02/2008 2:31 PM |
| | Indoor temperatures that never get above 80, and vary from 60-70 normally. | | Owner of The Original Rust Monsters! DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60 Dreamblade: All | |
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Knight of Argenis Corim Danex Warlord
 6621 Posts



 West Valley City, Utah
 | | 06/02/2008 5:49 PM |
| | I like in a climate which is fairly dry, and which goes from about 90-100 F outdoors in summer to about 10 F in the winter. My minis are kept indoors, where the temperatures range more from 65 to 80. Sorry these are all in fahrenheit and not celsius. | | "Look to God and live." Alma 37:47 Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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 Fun Guy from Yuggoth Cthulhufnord Warlord
 10802 Posts



 Umass Amherst Baby!
 | | 06/02/2008 11:16 PM |
| This has not been happening with the Star Wars minis.
| | Pathetic Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void - without the slightest inkling of who or what is out here. If you had known anything about the true nature of the universe - anything at all - you would have hidden from it in terror. | |
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Knight of the Round Table Thenameless Warlord
 9043 Posts



 The Fortress of Solitude
 | | 06/03/2008 1:07 AM |
| | I haven't yet noticed any white powder forming on my newer minis, but I'd like more people to chime in on this topic. | | Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Llarbal Skirmisher
 37 Posts



 | | 06/03/2008 2:38 AM |
| I've noticed this for the first time several months ago, and I was reminded of it when I got a night Below mini that had this while it was still in it's bag. Most minis in Night Below have this problem, although the black dragon has it as well. I don't think it has a lot to do with storage, since there are several sets in one cupboard and almost all Night Below minis have it but almost none of other sets. One thing that might have an effect is ventilation (or lack of). One thought that just occurred to me is that maybe it isn't related directly to the plastic either, since it als accumulates on the paint albeit to a lesser extent. So what is it?
creatures in bags have it so it must be production process related. It gets worse over time so that suggests some sort of (chemical?) process is going on.
By the way, it DOES rub off. Not entirely, the plastic stays a bit greyish.
My best guess is that it is some kind of Primer related dust that in a closed environment settles on the minis, where due to color it is most obvious on the black bases. Note that this wouldn't be a very good thing... Second best guess: substance used to clean the bases goes white after some time.
Completely wild guess related to the second guess: the kind of cleaner used is biodegradable and that is exactly what is happening, it's degrading.
edit: the reason I suspect the cleaner is that on some minis it seems to form patterns that resemble wipemarks | | Proud member of the Bearded Devils | |
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 5841 Posts




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Heavenstorm Skirmisher
 14 Posts




 | | 06/03/2008 6:13 AM |
| From the posts, it seems that NB is the prime suspect. Does anyone here have sealed NB minis? Being sealed gives them their own little ecosystem so if the powdery thing is apparent even in a sealed mini, then either poor plastic or a flaky flimsy undercoat would be the culprit ... If it isn't, then I would attribute the problem to external factors such as humidity/mold or a by-product of plastic friction/attrition.
I personally don't have that problem ........ yet. The worst I got was plastic warp due to sadistic glove compartment storage. | | | |
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Duke of Spoils greyhaze Warlord
 5841 Posts




 | | 06/03/2008 6:19 AM |
| | I just checked my night below trade stock, no white powder, but they are also not in baggies. | | Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60, Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger. Called Shots: Frost Giant in Demon Web, Darkenbeast in Feywild. | |
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paladin72 Sneak
 87 Posts




 | | 06/03/2008 6:52 AM |
| Posted By Heavenstorm on 06/03/2008 6:13 AM
I personally don't have that problem ........ yet. The worst I got was plastic warp due to sadistic glove compartment storage. You have to put yours in the glove compartment to get that?;)
| | “There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.” | |
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MarioCleanstuff Warrior
 324 Posts



 San Diego, CA
 | | 06/03/2008 10:20 AM |
| | I've got a few bagged NB minis, and none of mine display this problem. | | Completed trades: Brenigin, desiderata, HockeyFan, MikeyChraal, Raland, GuJiaXian | |
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Ridureyu Underboss
 1622 Posts




 | | 06/03/2008 11:24 AM |
| | Also, it does wash off. When I first noticed it and assumed it was dust, I did just that to a few minis, and the problem has not resurfaced with them. | | Owner of The Original Rust Monsters! DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60 Dreamblade: All | |
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paladin72 Sneak
 87 Posts




 | | 06/03/2008 11:49 AM |
| Posted By Ridureyu on 06/03/2008 11:24 AM Also, it does wash off. When I first noticed it and assumed it was dust, I did just that to a few minis, and the problem has not resurfaced with them. I washed my LBD yesterday and it did come off.
However when comparing him to my other LBD's he's not quite as black now. I hope it doesn't come back.
| | “There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.” | |
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Kaya Kenobi Underboss
 1304 Posts



 San Jose, California
 | | 06/03/2008 12:21 PM |
| heh... Well, I stopped buying them after Angelfire. Recently, I've been trying to decide whether or not to sell the rest of my mini sets.
Posted By Turboman on 05/31/2008 6:37 PM "Don't buy them" fails to be a good argument when the company that makes the product puts it in a randomized sealed box.
| | Just a simple traveler from the swamps of Dagobah otherwise known as Florida. Also known as Hurricane Alley! I always try to send through delivery confirmation, and I expect the same. It's only 55 cents extra, so it's just a little more than a pay phone call, so just do it for the Kai. I prefer to trade with people in the US and Canada, sorry everyone else. http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/53/postid/655406/view/topic/Default.aspx - references | |
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