| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
    
 | | 04/30/2006 11:36 AM |
| I have received requests from several members to maintain a permanent list of problem traders. That is once a member has several complaints against them, their username goes on a 'bad trader' list and stays there permanently. This request is in response to problems with folks like Ironfist Boulderbender, Wraith and Cha0tic G0od who all had several complaints against them in several different instances. They resolved a few of these trades and then went on to create more problems.
I am extremely hesitant to do this. A large part of my philosophy with the disputed trades list was to give people an incentive to clean up problem trades and get their name removed from the list. Creating a permanent list removes that incentive. Furthermore, if one wants to check the history of a particular trader, their individual reference thread and/or the posts on the current disputed trades list should provide this information. So personally I do not like this idea.
However, I've received enough requests that I would like to hear from others about this. Do we want such a list? If we do, what are the standards for who goes on it and who doesn't? Obviously we don't want to blacklist a trader with 1 problem trade that quickly gets it resolved. I'm interested to hear your thoughts on this.
Thanks,
LM
| |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
Red Ranger
Sergeant
704 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 11:50 AM |
| In light of the new problems with Ironfist Boulderbender and the continuing problems with traders from Syracuse, NY I think some sort of permanent 'bad trader tracking' on a consolodated list would be appropriate.
Perhaps a number of disputed trades and a timeframe could apply? Say if someone had 3 or more bad trades within a one or two month period, AND those trades took more than 30 days (or sixty for international) to resolve they go on the permanent list.
To still reinforce the reward for making good on the trades the list could prominently display the date the trade was resolved or whether it was still outstanding.
My $.02 | |
Champion of the Yeti
(large uncommon please!)
Assistant to the Regional Manager | |
|
DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 2:43 PM |
| I'm with you, Lab Monkey. A permanent "failed trades" list is simply unnecessary given that each user has a references list, and dated records are kept in the trade system. A permanent list could easily be abused in weird message board vendettas. Laugh, but it happens. There's a lot of subjectivity in what gets called a "problem". Permanent black marks won't work unless somebody steps up to be Minis Judge, but I'm SURE that's a hassle nobody wants.
There are currently THREE ways to protect yourself from a bad trade, none perfect. (There's actually no perfect way to protect oneself from a scam in the very rare instance that an established trader goes off the rails.)
First, before agreeing to a trade (or proposing one) go read the trader's reference list. All of it. Not just the first ten posts. Nobody starts out with problems.
As an aside: I think it's the responsibility of traders to accurately report their trades in these references lists. When I see posts like "It took a little while to get here, but it arrived," maybe that's a little too coded. How long did it take? How many emails did it take before things were sent? Is this trader likely to be a problem in the future? We currently seem to have an ebay style feedback thing happening: everybody is super-duper A++++++ great!
Another good way is to use the trading system. Once a trade is proposed, you can click on the other trader's name and see how many active trades he has. If somebody has a weeks-long uncompleted trade(s), avoid like the plague. The trade system was a great addition to Maxminis.
The third way is to read and keep up with the diputed trades thread. However, by the time problems are posted here it can be too late. And complaint posts here often go away when problems go away.
Given these three avenues, and the fact that reference lists and trade system data already exist as permanent records, yet another list is just not needed.
| |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
| |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 3:20 PM |
| Lab Monkey, I totally agree with your thoughts on "redemption" of a trader. I am going to tell you the things that I think and if you want to share them with the other mods please do. This can become a very touchy situation and I don't want boundaries to be drawn between traders. The loss of DF comes to mind from all the bad blood between him and CG. The CG thing caused many a schism and fractures amongst the community. Schisms and fractures do no good and as I see it the community is a better place with out them.
The examples Lab Monkey gives and state are the same ones that I was thinking of for writting this post. This sucks, and I hate to suggest it. Yet, I think that with the amounts of new folk coming to the scene that there needs to be a tracking system in place of the traders with a troubled past history. I think this would alleviate some of the traffic on the disputed trade and get the disputed trade to the dispute then the list of troubled past would be something a trader could look to see if there have been any past problems and what they were.
DrX, I have hesitation in suggesting something along the lines below. As of right now there is no mandatory trade thread psoting. I know taht mine has lapsed from the great purge. You can click on it but the thread's author is not me. I am suggesting something larger and more public. As something more stern and public is an option that is available.
My hesitation is that once a trader has been "labeled" as a problem trader I fear that people will be reluctant to trade with him. But I am sure that folks would trade if the problem trader sent first. I think this is what a couple of people have done with Ironfist and that system seemed to work. Further, fear comes from someone laying false clam such as the ckisse incident with the two/one guy(s) from the Dakotas.
I think that the "Send First List" could be made to work in so much as people who make it on to the list are required to send first, for all the trades. Plain and simple a locked thread of the traders who might have problems in trading and sending things out on time. This thread would need to be maintained by the mods. People on the list can initiate trades and others can initiate trades back with them the only thing is that with a public warning of the trouble trader send first.
I think the list should contain the real name of the person and address so everyone knows the trouble. This will save people from posting the real names of folk in the signature; although this will probably still happen. But perhaps a "Send First List" can stop trouble before it gets to crazy.
This is something that I know could easily come to a boiling point if someone was wrongly accused. But the way that I see it is that this could be explained in the disputed thread and cleared up with substantial evidence (i.e. scan of a DC or postal receipt for the international trade). This should protect the honest trader and give a forum to clear their name incase of a trade getting lost in the mail. I feel that there should be something like a two strike type mentality, before your name goes public. In the examples Lab Monkey lists all of the people in question had numerous trades open and it was the second offense before more people came to the forefront of the disputed trade thread.
So, the first offense you wind up on the disputed trade. Clearing your name before being sold down river. If things get resolved then all is good and you can go back to trading and life is good. Second, (separate offense(s)), problem trader winds up getting placed on the send first list. I think this public admonishment would keep people from getting in over their heads with more trades than they really can handle. The ramification of this public "labeling" would also serve as an example to the larger community that "something will be done" if you are poor trade partner; publicly.
This is just my thoughts and feeling....looking out for the comunity at large..... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 4:06 PM |
| IF CG made good on every trade, would you trade with him and do a simultaneous send?
I think that any trader who has multiple-long standing issues, should be permanently flagged. They have every right to negotate trades, but they should be flagged as a trader who should be treated differently, and expected to be shipped first.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 4:38 PM |
| griffrat, I see what you're after, and it would be nice.
The problem, again, is you need an arbitrator -- someone in authority who can judge and decide on a case-by-case basis who is a problem and who isn't. The moderators have said in the past that they don't want this responsibility, and I don't blame them.
Let's face it -- trading with strangers is always going to be a risky proposition. The website is providing technology to enable it, but it can't be responsible for it. The moderators do an awful lot of work here to begin with. I don't think they have a responsibility to police personal transactions. The minute a trade goes south with someone who wasn't flagged fast enough, the moderators would get blamed. Beneficial to Maxminis or not, I don't think it's fair to ask this of them.
| |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
| |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 5:16 PM |
| I agree. In so much as the faster a trader is brought to the "disputed trade thread" the faster things tend to get resolved.
I am still a firm follower of if you have not had at least X number of trades then you will send first. This serves as the rite of passage and fosters a sense of belonging. Knowing that a problem trader is sending first fosters that feeling of trust in that nothing ventured nothing gained.
It is true that while there is a lag time between trades going south and bad trades getting posted. I think that a suggestion for something might spur an idea from someone who is more creative than I am. This idea can then be built upon and perhaps something like the send first list might come into being.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
Wraithborne
Commander
3546 Posts
West Virginia
| | 04/30/2006 8:37 PM |
| I don't necessarily think a permanent bad trader list is a good idea. I think it could actually discourage people from coming clean and getting situations resolved if there was no hope of getting off of the list. However, some way of ensuring that people can easily find out that someone has had a lot of recurring problems and should be required to ship first would be a good idea. Perhaps just adding a note like this on the existing list would be possible?
quote:
Originally posted by griffrat
I am still a firm follower of if you have not had at least X number of trades then you will send first. This serves as the rite of passage and fosters a sense of belonging.
I agree with this and had no problems shipping first, but it's what got me in trouble in the first place. Not like with no completed trades I could demand that someone else ship first. | |
The year: 1994. From out of space comes a runaway planet, hurtling between the Earth and the Moon, unleashing cosmic destruction! Man's civilization is cast in ruin!
Two thousand years later, Earth is reborn...
A strange new world rises from the old: a world of savagery, super science, and sorcery. But one man bursts his bonds to fight for justice! With his companions Ookla the Mok and Princess Ariel, he pits his strength, his courage, and his fabulous Sunsword against the forces of evil.
He is Thundarr, the Barbarian!
| |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 04/30/2006 9:29 PM |
| Good points, honestly. But the idea of resolving trades and repeat offenses are the crux of the problem. I understand that we can all fall victum to life, and mess up on some trades. it is the very fact taht a person can redeem themselves that makes the idea of a static unchanging list abhorrent to me. But the reason it is suggested is the fact that some people are not forthcoming with past mistakes and people are getting burned. I would think that given a choice if a new person/trader had the option of knowing the past history of problems. Not just the life got in the way of I had to work late or I got sick and couldn't ship. But those traders who have been given a second chance to make good with all trades. I understand it is all about options and information to establish a fair trade. And the past history of a persons trade is all important. Hence, the reason we have trade refernce threads and the automatic trade function.
But it is the seasoned trader that can determine the tales of a problem trader; i.e. too many trades open at the same time, really large trades at the same time or hanging out on the boards to remember the names of folk who have been in difficult times in the past.
But all of this information should be consolidated in one place. Not spread out through the vast reaches of the site. Okay, so maybe not that vast. But a person would have to know where to look and further be able to compile the information on their own in a relative short amount of time to determine a traders reliability.
I don't know what the "right answer" is or if there is even one. But I am sure that if nothing is done then the same errors are going to be made. The more people that come to the site the more chances there are for problems. I for one would rather be proactive for avoiding the futer mistakes than reactive to them. Which is why I ma encouraged by the dialogue happening here now....[:D] Together we can make he changes.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
Rauthik
Sneak
136 Posts
| | 05/01/2006 12:10 AM |
| | I know what you mean about a trader being redeemed, but this is same reason why I'm in the mess I'm in with Ironfist Boulderbender. I saw that he had bad trades, but then made good on them. On top of all that, the people who had the problems with his trades left positive feedback, so I thought everything was alright. But now, it seems that he is screwing me and about a dozen other traders over for hundreds of dollars worth of good. A trader like this diminishes the quality of these boards and the maxminis community. I think that if there was a way to see how many complaints a trader has had, not just the current ones, it would have prevented me and others from losing so much to this guy. As it was, all I saw was that he had a couple of complaints and that those were taken care of. Now I'm finding out that this is a habitual problem of his. There is no way I would have traded with him, knowing what I know now. I'm sure others feel this way too and more than one or two people have expressed that the current problems with ironfist are causing them to distrust trading in general. Do I have a solution? Not really, but I figured I'd chime in with my two cents as well. Some of the people who have responded already have good ideas though. | | | |
|
sam500
Sergeant
416 Posts
Berkeley, CA
| | 05/01/2006 3:06 AM |
| Lab Monkey,
I'm currently involved in one of these problem trades with Ironfist Boulderbender. If he makes good on all his trades I think he should be given a clean record. Everyone has problems crop up.
As long as a trader makes good by all and both parties are happy then that's what is important.
If both parties are not happy I can see that such a warning system might help others in future.
I'd like to add that I appreciate you looking out for us.
cheers,
Sam | |
CHAMPION OF ALL TOWNSFOLK
47 COMPLETED TRADES ON MAXMINIS
14 COMPLETED TRADES ON WOTC BOARDS
I USE THE SAME HANDLE ON HORDELINGS, WOTC DDM BOARDS, AND DWARVEN FORGE FORUMS. | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 05/01/2006 7:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by sam500
Lab Monkey,
I'm currently involved in one of these problem trades with Ironfist Boulderbender. If he makes good on all his trades I think he should be given a clean record. Everyone has problems crop up.
But the thing that makes it sticky with Ironfist is that this is his second set of "problems."
I fully agree that anyone can have a bad stretch but at some point you gotta say, what the **** is going on with this guy?
I would be extremely wary of Ironfist in the future and would require him to send first on any trade.
And this is coming from someone who traded with him three times, but his current track record is not good. | |
Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
|
robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 05/01/2006 9:58 AM |
|
I'm in favor of a permanent problem trader list, with the understanding that it isn't a list of current problem traders, it is a list of folks who have had repeated problems. If you get a disputed trade or two, you shouldn't go on the list, but if you have a quantity of quantity of disputed trades (resolved or not) within a set time span, you should go on the permanent list.
Five disputed trades in a six month period seems adequate.
I don't think a list like this should be used for a blacklist, either. I wouldn't use it that way - but I would request that traders on the list send first, certainly, and I would examine their offers more closly.
| |
To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
| |
|
ckissee
Underboss
1431 Posts
KD :)
| | 05/01/2006 2:19 PM |
| | Personally, I would be in favor of adding the ability to post a comment to each trade that is publicly visible, so that each party could put in their two cents worth in addition to the +/- aspect. Granted, it's a system like Ebay has, but that seems to work fairly well... | |
KD Minister of Economy, Organizer of The Maxminis Red Paper Clip Project
Champion of: Aspect of Blibdoolpoolp
Miniatures Lists
"I *am* a third-party company."
Tangent Games - Designer of Bankruptcy: The Card Game | |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 05/01/2006 2:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ckissee
Personally, I would be in favor of adding the ability to post a comment to each trade that is publicly visible, so that each party could put in their two cents worth in addition to the +/- aspect. Granted, it's a system like Ebay has, but that seems to work fairly well...
I would suggest taking this up with jai when he returns. I believe this is why we continue to maintain reference threads.
I'd also like to see some system where it is easy to view whether a trader received neutral, positive or negative feedback, similar to what Ebay does with their feedback.
| |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6621 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/02/2006 7:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
IF CG made good on every trade, would you trade with him and do a simultaneous send?
I think that any trader who has multiple-long standing issues, should be permanently flagged. They have every right to negotate trades, but they should be flagged as a trader who should be treated differently, and expected to be shipped first.
Pat E
This sums up my opinion. The person can still do trading. They just need to send first. "Send First List" is a better name than "Permanent Bad Trader List."
I do think that maxminis could be adapted to help people recognize who is on the list. I gave some suggestions somewhere, where each person has their trade status show up on each of their posts. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10299 Posts
United States
| | 05/02/2006 7:05 PM |
| The positive/negative thing is a bit too simple, unfortunately. I think that if we all used each other's Reference Threads there would be a lot of useful information. I mean, we can all edit our own posts, and we can post again on threads, so, if I trade with someone and say that the trade was excellent, and then later something happens with that trader, I can always go back to that post and put an edit in there.
If we all did this, then, if I was thinking about a trade with someone, I could go look at all the posts in his reference thread and judge for myself if I felt it was worth the risk.
I don't think anyone would want to go to a tiered system: Gold traders, Silver traders, etc., where anyone "trading up" with a person in a higher tier would have to ship first. I think that we work this out on a case-by-case basis all by ourselves. And I think this "all by ourselves" system works well.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Idzy
Commander
3081 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 05/09/2006 10:32 AM |
| While I thint the system we have is doing a pretty good job, there is some room for improvement and there have been some good suggestions.
Send First List - I like this idea, the requirements to get on it would have to be pretty high, and would require the agreement of at least 5 people who were not involved in the dispute.
I'm thinking a process like this using the Ironfist situation as an example.
Multiple disputed trades with Ironfist are reported on the disputed trades list, Ironfist is added to the list, and the problems eventually resolved, he is taken off the list. several months later, more trades become disputed with him, again he is added to the disputed list. A person involved in the dispute nominates Ironfist for inclusion in the send first list and explains the situation, others (if there are any) explain their disputes with him. Several community members that are not involved with the current dispute read the issue and discuss it in the nomination thread, if 5 or more of these members agree that he should be included then he is added to the list.
This would take the burden off of the mods as it would not be their job to police the list just to possibly sticky it or maintain it. It would be no one persons job to choose who is on the list and would require a group to decide if someone should be on it. The mechanics of the nomination and decision process probably need a little work. | |
Champion of Champions (for all races! even Gnomes  )
Reference Thread
Winnipeg Gryphon Cavalry Forums
| |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 05/09/2006 10:43 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Idzy
....Multiple disputed trades with Ironfist are reported on the disputed trades list, Ironfist is added to the list, and the problems eventually resolved, he is taken off the list. several months later, more trades become disputed with him, again he is added to the disputed list. A person involved in the dispute nominates Ironfist for inclusion in the send first list and explains the situation, others (if there are any) explain their disputes with him.Several community members that are not involved with the current dispute read the issue and discuss it in the nomination thread, if 5 or more of these members agree that he should be included then he is added to the list.
This would take the burden off of the mods as it would not be their job to police the list just to possibly sticky it or maintain it. It would be no one persons job to choose who is on the list and would require a group to decide if someone should be on it.The mechanics of the nomination and decision process probably need a little work.
Interesting idea of implementation......
I am sure that with the great minds of this community something can be thought up and hammered out.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
gausse
Sergeant
951 Posts
Wisconsin
| | 05/09/2006 2:36 PM |
| | Maybe make it a probation list. You can earn your way off it my completing X goods trades without having a problem. | |
270+ Trades Completed (194 maxminis | 50 wizards | 29 hordelings)
References: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/view/topic/forumid/53/postid/435268/Default.aspx
H/W List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=gausse
Bad Trades: Chaotic Good (Strongbow Lone Eagle), dndonuts, Allard, ScottWallace
Email: gausse2@yahoo.com
| |
|
llyrsln
Sneak
100 Posts
| | 05/14/2006 1:03 AM |
| I'm not sure if this idea has been brought up before, but I thought it might be a good way to organise the dispute thread:
01. Disputed Trader X of [address]
Claim by Trader Y on 05/05/06
[insert link to dispute thread here]
Status: Unresolved
In this way, there would only be a master list of disputed trades (like the consolidated questions for WOTC thread), the address of the trader in dispute would be made known, and the length of the dispute would also be made known.
I think putting the address of the disputed trader would be helpful where, for example, that trader goes by different names on the maxmini site. Putting a link to the dispute thread allows a trader to see both parties' point of view on the dispute, and make up his own mind about whether to trade with the disputed trader.
When the dispute has been resolved, perhaps the information can be moved to a separate resolved disputes list, organised as follows:
01. Claim by Trader Y on 05/05/06
Resolved by Trader X on 06/05/06
Status: Resolved
In this way, you have a permanent record of disputed trades that have been resolved (for those that need that kind of information), but there still is an incentive for a disputed trader to get himself off the 'disputed trades list' (with negative connotations) and into the 'resolved disputes list' (with positive connotations).
| |
Completed Trades (26): dropbear(5), cormulan, vash9284(2), caliban(2), minatoman38(2), doone, bugsy, sjpadbury, hockeyfan, thor, smithmeg, sttmxn, ckissee, oni, avrivah, thenameless, griffrat, thailfi, lcs | |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 05/15/2006 2:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by llyrsln
I'm not sure if this idea has been brought up before, but I thought it might be a good way to organise the dispute thread:
01. Disputed Trader X of [address]
Claim by Trader Y on 05/05/06
[insert link to dispute thread here]
Status: Unresolved
In this way, there would only be a master list of disputed trades (like the consolidated questions for WOTC thread), the address of the trader in dispute would be made known, and the length of the dispute would also be made known.
I think putting the address of the disputed trader would be helpful where, for example, that trader goes by different names on the maxmini site. Putting a link to the dispute thread allows a trader to see both parties' point of view on the dispute, and make up his own mind about whether to trade with the disputed trader.
When the dispute has been resolved, perhaps the information can be moved to a separate resolved disputes list, organised as follows:
01. Claim by Trader Y on 05/05/06
Resolved by Trader X on 06/05/06
Status: Resolved
In this way, you have a permanent record of disputed trades that have been resolved (for those that need that kind of information), but there still is an incentive for a disputed trader to get himself off the 'disputed trades list' (with negative connotations) and into the 'resolved disputes list' (with positive connotations).
I like this idea and it is totally feasable. It would presumably take up a great deal of space, but that's the only problem I see with it. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 05/15/2006 6:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
I like this idea and it is totally feasable. It would presumably take up a great deal of space, but that's the only problem I see with it.
I agree this is a pretty slick idea.... | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
Zenako
Commander
3468 Posts
| | 05/16/2006 2:15 PM |
| Chiming in with some perspective from my Trade Datalist days.
I used to add in an editorial comment after the traders USID if they "had issues". It was a non-specific warning that gave a heads up to be extra careful with the trader in question. However that was also the result of reading literally thousands of posts on the trade threads and reference forums during the Datalist updates. Lots of human factor eyeball time to analyize the comments and posts. Since I did have a life and the time it was taking to maintain that list was growing almost exponentially as the number of site members trading was growing, we had to come up with some form of automated system and that was what Jai cobbled together back then. Automated systems have trouble handling nuanced posts or feedback. However it is much more current and probably accurate than the ones that were hand maintained.
As for putting in real addresses, that might be a touchy issue. We have always discouraged the posting of that information in the forums, since it can lead to liability issues. Partly why we just refer to Syracuse and not a street address (or multiple street addresses in his case...). However, I did used to include the posters name in the trade database listing that I posted, BUT this was based only on the info from their profile that they entered, so nothing was disclosed that was not already available. The real address of posters is not in the profile, and posting that info could be a problem. I also got occasional requests/demands to remove posters real names from the Datalist, which I always complied with.
As for how much hand holding to give from the site to new traders. Let them know the landscape, let them know about resources available to them for figuring out trades, let them know about how to check up on someone's trade history, and then let them try. We cannot prevent them from dealing with a questionable trader, just make them aware that it is prudent to check out about each trader as much as possible before sending anything in the mail.
PS: Many thanks to LM for assuming a significant role on the trade and reference forums, it was hard to keep up with everything. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
|
Ironfist Boulderbender
Sergeant
498 Posts
Twin Falls, Idaho, USA
| | 05/18/2006 11:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Idzy
While I thint the system we have is doing a pretty good job, there is some room for improvement and there have been some good suggestions.
Send First List - I like this idea, the requirements to get on it would have to be pretty high, and would require the agreement of at least 5 people who were not involved in the dispute.
I'm thinking a process like this using the Ironfist situation as an example.
Multiple disputed trades with Ironfist are reported on the disputed trades list, Ironfist is added to the list, and the problems eventually resolved, he is taken off the list. several months later, more trades become disputed with him, again he is added to the disputed list. A person involved in the dispute nominates Ironfist for inclusion in the send first list and explains the situation, others (if there are any) explain their disputes with him. Several community members that are not involved with the current dispute read the issue and discuss it in the nomination thread, if 5 or more of these members agree that he should be included then he is added to the list.
This would take the burden off of the mods as it would not be their job to police the list just to possibly sticky it or maintain it. It would be no one persons job to choose who is on the list and would require a group to decide if someone should be on it. The mechanics of the nomination and decision process probably need a little work.
Well, since I seem to be the "example" in several of these notes, I thought maybe I should chime in. I agree with the "send first" list (if anyone has happened to read my sig since the first of May, they would see that I self-imposed a "send first" policy on myself). I feel that I still have the right to make trades, and the right to send first...that way if it takes a little longer than expected (over a week to get a trade out), my trade partner is not out anything AND if my trade partner feels "Oh, it took him a week to send, I'll hold his minis for a week before I send", hey, that's cool with me. I feel they have every right to treat me the same way I have treated them (although it has not been intentional on my part).
1) Am I upset about being used as an example, not really...I deserve it.
2) Am I upset about potentially loosing trade opprotunities due to my history, no...I deserve it
3) Am I upset that people look at my posts suspiciously? A little...some of the bad publicity I have recieved has been unwarranted (Klobersaurus' comment comes to mind)
4) Did I screw people over on trades, yes...I admit that I had outstanding trades that were over a year old
5) Did I come forward like a man and accept responsability for my mistakes? Yes. With no provocation other than my own concience, I did what I could to make sure everyone whom I had screwed over was compensated for to thier satisfaction. I still have one (Kretobergas) that I am working on getting resolved, but when people don't want to trade with me for fear of being a "victim", it makes it a little dificult to get replacement figures for a trade gone bad.
6) Will it ever happen again? I can't tell you that....my crystal ball that sees the futuer seems to be on the fritz....I don't think ANYONE can honestly say that in the future, thier life will not step in the way of thier trading (here's an extreme example that I hope never happens to anyone but it is possible....[please insert yourself into Joe's shoes] Joe Schmuccatelli has 10 trades he has agreed on in the last couple days. He is a long-standing trader with an excellent reputation. On his way to the post office, he has a motorcycle accident and breaks his leg and a couple ribs. The trades going | |
Trade reference thread
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=425
*everything listed below is 2006 and beyond*
Fixed Problems:
Kretobregas-sent
| |
|
Idzy
Commander
3081 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | 05/19/2006 12:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ironfist Boulderbender
Well, since I seem to be the "example" in several of these notes, I thought maybe I should chime in.
Just my 2 cent's worth....flame away
The only reason I used your situation as an example was because it was fresh in mind, not to pick on you specifically, there are a few others I believe belong on a similar list, and I do appreciate that you are making an effort to fix things.
I can't really blame anyone for looking on you with suspicion in light of what has been going on, and again I don't want to compare you to the Chaotic Good but in the end the pattern is very similar intentional or not, and trust must be earned which is very hard once it has been broken.
Again I don't want to discourage you from trying to make good and becoming a valued member of the community once again. | |
Champion of Champions (for all races! even Gnomes )
Reference Thread
Winnipeg Gryphon Cavalry Forums
| |
|
Ironfist Boulderbender
Sergeant
498 Posts
Twin Falls, Idaho, USA
| | 05/19/2006 10:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Idzy
quote:
Originally posted by Ironfist Boulderbender
Well, since I seem to be the "example" in several of these notes, I thought maybe I should chime in.
Just my 2 cent's worth....flame away
The only reason I used your situation as an example was because it was fresh in mind, not to pick on you specifically, there are a few others I believe belong on a similar list, and I do appreciate that you are making an effort to fix things.
I can't really blame anyone for looking on you with suspicion in light of what has been going on, and again I don't want to compare you to the Chaotic Good but in the end the pattern is very similar intentional or not, and trust must be earned which is very hard once it has been broken.
Again I don't want to discourage you from trying to make good and becoming a valued member of the community once again.
I take no offense to being used as an example. I honestly think I deserve it and (not to sound nasty) at least I am getting things done about my problems and not just sitting back and "screwing unto others"...I think that's just totally wrong. I have made a few trades recently (BTW, guys, it might be an idea for us to put them through the interface) and have let all my trade partners know up front that I have been having problems. I have also requested from all of them that they let me send first (one refused, saying we shoulf simul-send, and I am OK with that).
So, please, feel free to continue using me as an example...I have no problem with it. | |
Trade reference thread
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=425
*everything listed below is 2006 and beyond*
Fixed Problems:
Kretobregas-sent
| |
|
Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 3:32 PM |
| Ironfist's posts are a good summation as to why I'm so hesitant to do this. He's clearly had some problems, but he's in the process of making good on all of these trades.
When I have some extra time, I'll sit down and create a thread like the one that llyrsln suggested. It will take some time, and it will be missing some information. Unfortunatley we've lost quite a bit of this information in the various forum upgrades. Still I'll be able to create and archive of the most recent disputed trades with a record of how quickly they were resolved.
Thanks to all that have contributed to this thread. I'm going to un-sticky it now, but feel free to continue to add suggestions for how we can improve trading here at Maxminis.
LM | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |