Forum Admin
Host
Sergeant
601 Posts
    
 | | 07/06/2006 3:26 PM |
| Hello folks,
normally I like to be a *user* on this site and not the *webmaster* but recent events call for some answers for the community.
Less than a month ago, Jai, Chris, and Kevin wrote me some email proposing the merger of maxminis with hordelings. Obviously I had a lot of questions about this, because I wanted to make sure the new site would in fact be superior to both sites. We started corresponding back and forth, with the them sending the design document they had created, and me marking it up, and them starting to respond. Then in the middle of this process, Jai announced to the community what maxminis 2.0 would be (from his viewpoint). I have always believed in having a community of free speech and I despise censorship. However, I think this announcement is creating a lot of confusion, so let me clarify things.
Entirely separate from the 2.0 discussion, I was in the middle of getting maxminis on a faster server. We're on a faster server right now from what we were on before, but I want maxminis to go faster still, so there will be a further server upgrade occurring soon. The hiccups the site experienced is due to that change.
During the server upgrade process, I took a look at maxminis' database and noted that it has not been maintained for some time. For example, threads have not been archived since October of last year. I have created some scripts to handle this and they appear to work (some of you may have noticed that the General Discussion page count dropped from 68 to 59 in the past week as the topics were moved to the archive). I will continue to refine the maxminis database to improve performance. While I am in the database admin role, Jai won't have access to the database, but he still his other admin privileges. I temporarily disabled search during this process.
The future of maxminis has not been agreed upon yet. There are 13 admins, 11 of which weren't involved in the proposal, and I want input from the rest of you, too. Please email me at maxminis_webmaster@yahoo.com . It would be great if all of us can combine wits and produce something truly superior from it.
For the record at this time, maxminis.com will remain maxminis.com and will undergo upgrades. I received an interesting proposal the other day of moving maxminis to a format that will allow anyone to add features to it, and I am investigating that. Please, keep the proposals coming! | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 3:53 PM |
| Well, first of all, I propose that you inform the community before you make any more radical changes. I know that we are all guests here, but what happened today caused a lot of frustration for a lot of people. From what I've heard none of the admins knew about the server change, either.
I have plenty of suggestions, but I think you should first let us know what your plans and ambitions for this site are. That way, it would be easier to suggest things that fit into your vision (and budget constraints). | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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ktatroe
Sergeant
564 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:00 PM |
| We really wanted Webmaster's sign-off on the document before passing it onto any of the Moderators -- and I thought we were pretty close to that step before -- but just so people can see where we were at with the proposal, here's what we were looking at: http://www.hordeminis.com/future.php[/url]. (Forgive the temporary domain, the new one hasn't transferred to the server we've set up).
At this point, I imagine this proposal is just a data point, but it's worth seeing by the whole community now, I think, if only for further discussion of what the community would and would not like to see in the future direction of the site.
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H/W: http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user=ktatroe | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:01 PM |
| Good to hear from you.
It appears you and jai have had a break. You obviously feel he was unsuited to the db admin role, and that is your right; I can even respect it.
I agree with Sammael, that it is absolutely imperative that you inform the community, or at the very least, your moderators, of major events, such as the beginning of archiving, and moving servers. Otherwise this is simply viewed as instability and you will lose users.
Other than that, I would actually take a very conservative approach to changes to the look and feel of the site. | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:13 PM |
| | Honestly, I think you should go ahead with the merger. From what I have seen it looks like Kevin, Chris, and Jai have a good plan, and I think it would resolve many of the common complaints and issues with maxminis, including expanding functionality. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:20 PM |
| | I'm all about the merger. With the dual programming power of jai and Kevin, and Chris Groves on the mic, it's a slam dunk. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Sammael
Underboss
1881 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:24 PM |
| Well, yeah, obviously I am in favor of the merger. Multiple slaves programmers could make the site run smoothly and relatively trouble-free. Jai was overworked as is. | |
Hypethetical Blood War Set List | Champion of the Gelugon | Vindicated Prophet of Blood War
Ha 69/80 | De 60/60 | Ar 57/60 | GoL 72/72 | Ab 60/60 | DK 60/60 | AF 60/60 | UD 59/60 | WD 57/60 | WDQ 3/60| BW
Total DDM Count: 1037 | No chance of finishing the set | Will finish the set | Set | |
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2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:26 PM |
| Webmaster: you say you'd prefer to be a user of the site, instead of a webmaster. That's understandable, but I haven't seen you participate much as a user either -- ok, really I haven't seen you participate at all, at least not in the past year or so.
Can you tell us a little about your current level of involvement in any minis games? I mean, do you actively collect DDM, do you play skirmish competitively, do you use minis for RPG, do you attend conventions or tournaments, etc. Same questions for SWM, AAM, et al?
If you have no real active involvement with any minis line anymore, why are you running this site? If you do have active involvement, why don't you participate much on your own board? Do you also post under another name?
I think it strikes many people as odd that you own the site, yet seem rather disinterested in the subject of the site. Care to comment? | |
Read my championship tournament report.
Successful trades:
xBrendanx | Cha0tic G0od | ThatOneGuy | BrazenWood | Finley | Arris | Drift x2 | Neonmage | Cthulu's Librarian | Kalvos | PatEllis15 | Paradox1995 | Rhane | Gildogg | Darthrau | Vrecknidj x2 | erian_7 | Octavius Drowslayer x2 | stheis | Garate | thenameless | Lucky_ksu | ckissee | Corim Danex | Schooly_D | Username | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:29 PM |
| I'm behind the merger as well. There's already been quite a bit of thought and work put into the effort, and many have voiced things they would like to see on the new site, some of which have been incorperated, and even more will be as the transition is made.
Full steam ahead! | |
Completed trades: arbados
Completed 23 trades on Hordelings www.hordelings.com - http://www.hordelings.com/directory/profile.php?user_id=429 | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:33 PM |
| My opinion on this matter is rather in the open here. The merger is needed. Webmaster, though the site is running smooth today, the majority of the newer posters do not of your existence until this, that says alot.
I will be leaving is my guess whether its a true merger or a new system all together. The way this has been handled has settled very poorly with me.
Again I say your post and input here is 30 min late and 3.fiddy short. It seems post-hoc reasoning for some poorly executed idea. Owner or not, this site is the community and you did a poor job at keeping them informed. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 4:48 PM |
| Hmmm... quite honestly I have little input other than to hope all changes are good ones that I'll like. I know that a lot of people would like a lot of options that maxminis.com doesn't currently offer so there are obviously changes that should be made. My biggest gripe is the lack of communication as many have already stated. Maxminis is a nice little community that communicates a lot with one another. Making changes is fine but people like to know what is going on beforehand. It's obvious that this day has caused a great deal of ruckus among many long time and very active members of maxminis and that is a bad thing. Keep us in the know and people will be happy and not want to leave.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 5:20 PM |
| I'm conflicted. I love the forums and community here, but I vastly prefer the tools on Hordelings. I also have grown frustrated with some of the things I've heard about how the mods/admins have had to keep this thing afloat by their sweat and by threads and a virtually unresponsive site owner. Now you re-appear and cut Jai off at the legs...
If you want feeback on the site, I am quite happy with the forums. I would like a better tool for trades and for searching for trading partners. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 5:30 PM |
| My main concern with a possible merger with Hordelings is one of server performance. As erratic as the performance on Maxminis can be, I find the speed of the Hordelings server to be unacceptably slow.
Would a new site be hosted on the newer, faster Maxminis server?
Also, again, I'm not a huge fan of the board software used here, but I like it better (also the layout) than what Hordelings has at the moment. I see there are some things in the plan sienar linked to about layout, format, etc., but what I don't see is a proposal on what board software is going to be used. I think that's an extremely important piece of any migration plan. I would argue strongly in favor of a 3rd option for the forums, personally. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1344 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 5:36 PM |
| I think that creating solid layout and functionality is pretty easy. What isn't easy is finding a group of people who are passionate, skilled, and dedicated. The mods on this board have created a community of respect and intelligence that even Wizards itself, with all of the resources at its disposal, has been unable to create. These folks are the heart and soul of Maxminis, and without them, faster servers or new features won't mean much.
On a side note, why did you request that we email you? Why not have this discussion in the open, right here? That's what this place is for, no? | | | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 5:37 PM |
| Although I was skeptical at first, I'm fully in favor of the merger. My top priorities are:
1) Keeping the dynamic community of maxminis together.
and
2) Keeping the trading aspect of this site as active, open and honest as possible.
There are a great many people frustrated with the current state of Maxminis: the db problems, the lack of features, etc. Without a significant upgrade in features, it's inevitable that some will leave this site for other, better options. The merger helps to answer this concern.
We've gone through a number of db crashes since I first became a member here with the loss of trading information, reference threads, etc. That hurts trading here and it makes it more difficult to check up on people's references. It also makes people lose faith in the integrity of the site which then drives people away.
The proposed merger was primarily an attempt to answer these concerns and to create a situation where those ultimately in control of the site are active and engaged with the community. For these reasons, I'm in favor of it.
Finally, I also want to add that if we've lost Jai, that is a huge loss for this site. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
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E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 6:11 PM |
| I have to admit, I am scared for all our Eternal Campaign data...eek!
I am especially worried if Jai isn't involved anymore, cus whether he announced something or not, he was the man who was asking for, and as far as I know implementing the changes requested, and fixing things when they came up, and putting up with our whining etc etc...aka, a webmaster =)
My preference is a merger, and an end product being a community run AND community OWNED site. I don't think there would be any problem whatsoever gathering the donations required.
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Join the Eternal Skirmish Campaign.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr Seuss | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 6:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galneweinhaw
I have to admit, I am scared for all our Eternal Campaign data...eek!
I am especially worried if Jai isn't involved anymore, cus whether he announced something or not, he was the man who was asking for, and as far as I know implementing the changes requested, and fixing things when they came up, and putting up with our whining etc etc...aka, a webmaster =)
My preference is a merger, and an end product being a community run AND community OWNED site. I don't think there would be any problem whatsoever gathering the donations required.
Galn check the EC admin board please. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3490 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 07/06/2006 6:36 PM |
| First of all, I don't understand the ruckus over the problems we experienced in the last couple of days. Yesterday, it looked like some information was lost, but it looks like it's pretty much all back today, including sticky threads and reference threads. I understand a bit of frustration if the mods were taken by surprise, and especially if they had to do some extra work to get things back on track, but I don't understand a backlash against the webmaster who is kind enough to provide us this free service. Especially since the end result is a board which should perform better.
Second, has jai really been "cut off at the knees" as some sort of punishment for "going over the webmaster's head", so-to-speak? Or is this just a matter of the webmaster trying to avoid "too many cooks" spoiling the database while he works on it? Besides, I thought jai had publicly backed off from the responsibilities he had taken on for himself at maxminis.
Third, in looking over the locked forum discussion thread that jai started, I want to echo the sentiments of those who prefer the simpler, "no frills" maxminis interface to that of hordelings. I appreciate the tools that have been added to maxminis. I love the gallery, I like the changes to the have/want list, and I've even gotten used to the trade interface. But I'd prefer energies were spent on making a fast and reliable board as opposed to making a fancy, tool-laden board.
That said, I don't think a merger is a bad idea. We're all the same community, after all. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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zephyrstorm
Sergeant
528 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 6:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
Webmaster, though the site is running smooth today, the majority of the newer posters do not of your existence until this, that says alot.
I really want to re-echo this sentiment. Personally, I thought Jai was the webmaster, and was quite shocked to find out today that he wasn't. He's always been the one to post updates that I've seen in the Forums Discussion and doing the maintenance. He's been the one I've been talking with in terms of developing some additional tools for the EC as well. Your presence isn't even non-existant in terms of posting, but there isn't even a "mail the webmaster" link on the template of the site.
Personally, I'm all in favor of the merger. We don't need a solution that allows users to add components to the site; we need a solution that involves an active webmaster that will work with users (particularly those of us who know a great deal about web programming) to develop those tools. Jai and ktatroe have been doing that and they have my support. | |
Champion of the Hellwasp Swarm
New subscriber to rule #0: bshugg is always right. | |
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kyrin
Commander
3157 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 6:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Faragdar the Wise
But I'd prefer energies were spent on making a fast and reliable board as opposed to making a fancy, tool-laden board.
Faragdar speaketh sooth! I hate these fancy-schmancy, animation and purty-pitcher laden boards that take forever to work through. If I want to look at art, I'll go to an art museum. If I want to see animation, I'll turn my TV to Boomerang. I'm here to trade and get information and goof around. Keep It Simple!
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 6:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Finally, I also want to add that if we've lost Jai, that is a huge loss for this site.
I agree, jai was a constant and I am hoping that the stress of the move and other RL issues associated with a move or whatever, brings. I have made a few moves and rare are the smooth transitions. At least this is what I am telling myself....[:I]
I am sure that some sort of compromise can be reached and the things that make both sites great can be spearheaded into a mega great site. | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
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ktatroe
Sergeant
564 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 7:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Faragdar the Wise
But I'd prefer energies were spent on making a fast and reliable board as opposed to making a fancy, tool-laden board.
In a well-run project, these are one and the same. [:)]
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H/W: http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user=ktatroe | |
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Meds
Warrior
286 Posts
Alameda, CA
| | 07/06/2006 7:02 PM |
| I hope we stay a single community. The worst thing that could come from this would be fracturing of the community that's been built here.
To be honest, 95% of my maxminis/hordelings expectations would be met by a responsive, available forum. Sure, I've had a lot of use out of the trade and h/w features here (and on hordelings) but from my perspective they're icing on the cake. Layout and appearance matter even less to me. It appears that currently both maxminis and hordelings would struggle to support the huge volumes that this community likes to generate (post/read/search activity and/or data volume).
I'm not trying to pretend that this is a simple issue -- scalability is hard to test (other than letting 100s of potentially disappointed users onto your new system). I do want to thank everyone that has invested their time and/or money into making this site the wonderful community it is. | |
Have/Want List || Trade References | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 07/06/2006 9:08 PM |
| I fully support the merger. Since the early days of trading it's usually been a maxminis vs. hordelings thing. We had more people, but they had more features. In the end, there was a lot of cross-traffic for one reason or another.
Merging the two simply makes sense to me. I just hope that hordelings (if it stays hordelings) or the new 2.0 site will continue to operate under the radar of most filters. Ultimately, I feel that will determine how many of us go from one site to another.
As far as webmaster goes, I'd always operated under the assumption that he(?) had another "normal" login to go about incognito. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 07/07/2006 7:11 AM |
| All I really care about is that I don't lose contact with all my maxminis friends and acquaintances. I'd rather stay on a simple system, without too many bells or whistles, but I'll go where the community goes because I want to continue to be a part of that.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 10:03 AM |
| Anyone know what is up with the additional width on threads? I now have to scroll from side to side to read just a single line of text. It's pretty annoying.
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Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
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Username
Warlord
5663 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 10:45 AM |
| | Merge already! | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 11:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lab Monkey
Anyone know what is up with the additional width on threads? I now have to scroll from side to side to read just a single line of text. It's pretty annoying.
I only have this problem is a thread a single line with no spaces. | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4135 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 11:39 AM |
| | It seems to have gone away for me now. Weird. Thanks to whoever fixed it. | |
Have: Cat; Want: Storm Giant
Champion of Anything Dragonlance
Before trading, please check the Disputed Trades Thread | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 12:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
On a side note, why did you request that we email you? Why not have this discussion in the open, right here? That's what this place is for, no?
I echo this and wonder where the communication is still. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 1:19 PM |
| My predictions:
(1) We will continue to hear very little from the webmaster. He will maintain this site, and we will have fewer issues with it; but little/no progress will be made on an official merger, or transfer of any data from maxminis to hordelings.
(2) Some users will move to hordelings, but only enough to split the community. Also the hordelings interface will not change much, and will remain unappealing for much of the community.
(3) Another site will eventually become home to the community.
Not pretty, but that is how I see it.
Personally, I'm for the merger, as long as it a merger, build from the base up from both maxminis and hordelings code. I'm *NOT* in favor of using hordelings as a base to build form. | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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Knight of Wuzz
Wuzzard
-827 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 1:58 PM |
| | I talked with webmaster yesterday. I can't speak for him on the issue of a merger, however he is very interested in moving maxminis forward to a more advance site & forums platform that will enable more community services, etc. Everyone that's currently helping out (including kevin of hordelings) is welcome to participate. | | | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 2:02 PM |
| So the merger is not happening but if Kevin wants to help webmaster build a new site he is welcome to?
Gotcha. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 2:35 PM |
| | Seems awfully heavy-handed to stop what was in the works and say a new method is going to happen, though without anyone actually working on it. | |
My H/W list is not current...
Trade Reference List
OLD Trade references (191) | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2984 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 07/07/2006 2:37 PM |
| | Merge or no merge, what ever. I'll end up on the site with the better insite into the minis game (which is not the WotC forums). Now if I could just remember my Hordlings handle and pass word form 2 yrs ago I'd be set to use both again. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 2:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wuzzard
...however he is very interested in moving maxminis forward to a more advance site & forums platform that will enable more community services, etc. Everyone that's currently helping out (including kevin of hordelings) is welcome to participate....
Riiiight... isn't that what those guys have been working on for the past few months? so basically scrap all the work they've already done, start again but with him in charge, and welcome them to help?
EDIT: I should read before I post... looks like there are 2 or 3 posts with almost the exact same response. Well, add mine!
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Join the Eternal Skirmish Campaign.
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr Seuss | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 07/07/2006 4:01 PM |
| due to possible offence this has been removed, course if you still quote it there isn't much point
I'm glad something is being done. I'm not exactly certain as to the webmasters interest in this site. As far as I'm aware he has little interest in the games involved, and doesn't make any income off of it.
I'd be much more comfortable if someone interested and involved in at least one of the games on the site where at the helm. And if there was better communication between all concerned. | |
My online store http://store.hoardsters.com
Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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