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E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
    
 | | 09/13/2006 7:50 PM |
| I'll give it one more try (#4) cus you said today you would answer my quesion
Well, I have lots of stuff to say, but not much of it is helpful =(
So, I dug deep and tried to find something constructive. I'm not sure how successful I was, but here goes.
Preamble: I think it has become clear that mis-communication is at the crux of this issue, even within this thread, it has become difficult to see posts objectivly and to post objectively. We have also determined that Quickclot isn't going to work here, because the issue is a lot more serious and the repercussion have gone alot deeper than maybe anyone of us originally thought they would.
So I would like to ask a question, and perhaps being a conversation with you, webmaster, in order to...do whatever we are trying to do here.
I would like to start with a simple question. I will try not to lead or imply anything, and I would appreciate if you did the same with your answer.
Are you willing to consider the possibility that Jai's main goal was not to takeover the ownership of maxmins, and that perhaps this interpretation was a result of a misunderstanding in communication?
Thanks for having this chat with me =)
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 09/13/2006 10:28 PM |
| "Are you willing to
consider the possibility that Jai's main goal was not to takeover the
ownership of maxmins, and that perhaps this interpretation was a result
of a misunderstanding in communication?"
After slogging through the threads in question (back to July... I've
not been around lately), both here and on Hordelings it sure looks to
me like Maxminis dodged a bullet.
As someone who has negotiated a number of contracts it's my opinion
that the Maxminis principal would have been a complete fool to have
accepted the proposed merge as written. He/she (I have no idea who the
folks are in this), would have literally given away everything and
recieved nothing. Even if the "goal was not to takeover the
ownership of maxmins" the document sure read like it was.
Anyway, just my opinion coming into this after it's apparently all
over. Not sure where the demonization of Maxminis is coming from.
Having been away I may have missed something, but it sure seems over
the top. Not liking Maxmins is one thing; calling the guy the vile
things he's been called seems to me uncalled for. Even with all it's
quirks (I remember the first iterations of the h/w lists... lol!) it's
always been a pretty cool site, with good mods and good content.
What'd I miss?
-- Edit --- Not really away... just Dreamblading and not paying
attention to any other forums, or hanging on MM or Hordelings that
much. So kind of away... in a way...  -- Off Edit --
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 09/14/2006 2:20 PM |
| Dodged a bullet by jumping in front of a stampede maybe. Maxminis
may still exist but its user base has suffered a huge beating.
I agree with your accessment of the proposed merger from a negotiator
standpoint. And add my technical opinion that one site or another
would have to be chosen as a base to build from, and the flowery best
of the best would not be possible. Every feature that would be
added to the base site would have to be developed from scratch.
Maxminis princical is being demonized to an extreme that I would call
unfair, however some of the things he has said makes it somewhat
understandable. Then again some of the things said to/about him makes some of his snarkiness understandable.
Regardless of what the intent of Jai et all, and personally I
believe it was a consolidationg of the community into a site that would
allow dynamic development from the community, the end result would be
the removal of maxminis and it's webmaster with little or no
compensation.
I also believe that the development of hordelings would not be
significantly different from what it is now, it simply would also have
maxminis data. Thus we would have little added to the community,
and the removal of this site; basically creating a monopoly. Personally I would preffer to have
both.
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 09/14/2006 9:51 PM |
| Posted By Gnolaum on 09/14/2006 2:20 PM
Dodged a bullet by jumping in front of a stampede maybe. Maxminis
may still exist but its user base has suffered a huge beating.
I agree with your accessment of the proposed merger from a negotiator
standpoint. And add my technical opinion that one site or another
would have to be chosen as a base to build from, and the flowery best
of the best would not be possible. Every feature that would be
added to the base site would have to be developed from scratch.
Maxminis princical is being demonized to an extreme that I would call
unfair, however some of the things he has said makes it somewhat
understandable. Then again some of the things said to/about him makes some of his snarkiness understandable.
Regardless of what the intent of Jai et all, and personally I
believe it was a consolidationg of the community into a site that would
allow dynamic development from the community, the end result would be
the removal of maxminis and it's webmaster with little or no
compensation.
I also believe that the development of hordelings would not be
significantly different from what it is now, it simply would also have
maxminis data. Thus we would have little added to the community,
and the removal of this site; basically creating a monopoly. Personally I would preffer to have
both.
Yeah. I don't get the stampede bit though. Never saw the DDM
crowd as such sheep, really. What's to stampede about? The guy who runs
a fan site is a geek, not a politician? ZOMFG whowouldathougt!!!! lol
Maybe that's why he stays in the background, eh? Anyway, reading some
of the posts it looked like he was out creeping in windows and eating
babies. Overall though its... bleh... Nothing.
I just don't get the heat.
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11221 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 09/15/2006 5:21 AM |
| Posted By Balduran I on 09/13/2006 10:28 PM
Anyway, just my opinion coming into this after it's apparently all over. Not sure where the demonization of Maxminis is coming from. Having been away I may have missed something, but it sure seems over the top. Not liking Maxmins is one thing; calling the guy the vile things he's been called seems to me uncalled for. Even with all it's quirks (I remember the first iterations of the h/w lists... lol!) it's always been a pretty cool site, with good mods and good content.
What'd I miss?
A considerable amount of stuff. Far too much to get into now and really what would be the point, at this point? It's been hashed and rehashed ad nauseum and it's time to move on.Posted By Balduran I on 09/14/2006 9:51 PM
Yeah. I don't get the stampede bit though. Never saw the DDM crowd as such sheep, really. What's to stampede about? The guy who runs a fan site is a geek, not a politician? ZOMFG whowouldathougt!!!! lol Maybe that's why he stays in the background, eh? Anyway, reading some of the posts it looked like he was out creeping in windows and eating babies. Overall though its... bleh... Nothing.
I just don't get the heat.
One possible reason you don't get the heat, and I'm not picking on you here, is because of the reason you stated, you were away. I heard others say precisely what you are saying and saying it on both Maxminis and Hordelings. Basically they were saying, what's the big deal? And in almost all those cases it was from users who were infrequent posters to either site.
In order to truly understand what happened, you would have to have been following it from the beginning. It's quite difficult to pick up all the pieces at this point. It's like trying to put together a puzzle but opening the box to find some of the pieces missing.
I have to take issue with one thing you said above.
Posted By Balduran I on 09/14/2006 9:51 PM
Overall though its... bleh... Nothing.
I know it's your opinion that it's nothing and that's cool. Your opinion is your opinion. I'm not going to argue that.
However, a lot of people with a much greater stake in Maxminis than either you or I really thought this was quite a big deal and voiced their opinions. There was a lot of heat, a lot of arguing but at it's most basic, everyone and I mean EVERYONE only wanted the best possible community for Maxminis. That's really the heart of it. It's a shame that the end result had to be the fracture we are dealing with now.
However, some might see that as a natural and needed evolution of the community.
I don't see it that way, at least not right now. The community didn't need to move beyond one website at this time, imo. It would happen of course at some point in the future. The community would outgrow the need for only one minis website and more would spring up. I don't see that as being needed right now. A lot of talk was made that Maxminis has 5000 registered users and that does sound pretty impressive but how many of those users are active? how many actually contibrute? Far, far less than 5000, I can tell you that. You can't just make blanket statements like that without looking at how many of those users are actually active, contributing members of your website. Some people signed up back in 2003 but have never posted. How do they count in any way, shape, or form??
Right now all I see is two diminished minis communities instead of one healthy one and it didn't need to be that way.
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PatEllis15
Commander
4462 Posts
| | 09/15/2006 7:51 AM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 09/15/2006 5:21 AM
Right now all I see is two diminished minis communities instead of one healthy one and it didn't need to be that way.
Exactly.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2710 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 09/15/2006 9:25 AM |
| Maxminis princical is being demonized to an extreme that I would call unfair, however some of the things he has said makes it somewhat understandable. Then again some of the things said to/about him makes some of his snarkiness understandable.
I agree. Well said.
Right now all I see is two diminished minis communities instead of one healthy one and it didn't need to be that way.
Sorry for another me too post. Again, well said.
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Knight of Wuzz
Wuzzard
-827 Posts
| | 09/15/2006 12:13 PM |
| | I think it is unfortunate that so many have jumped to conclusions so readily. But doesn't it always seem that way with online communities? Flame wars errupt all the time over poor phrasings or imagined slights. Not as much here as elsewhere, but it does happen if not daily, at least weekly. I'm sure all involved believe they have justly weighed the facts and acted (or not acted) appropriately. I suppose it just shows you how strong the community really is, how strongly people feel the ties to each other. | | | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3809 Posts
USA
| | 09/15/2006 4:35 PM |
| Posted By Ghendar on 09/15/2006 5:21 AM
Right now all I see is two diminished minis communities instead of one healthy one and it didn't need to be that way.
IÂ second the "Well Said"!Â
Let the healing begin, and hopefully, the growth / rebirth of the community commence.Â
DDM is a great game and our community is one graeat group of folks that won't be kept down. Like a Phoenix it will rise from the ashes.Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 09/15/2006 5:02 PM |
| | Hopefully. I,as many hope we just let all these things go so webmaster can devote all his time on this website. So far,in case you are wondering, he is an excellent boss and a good communicator. Please give him a chance guys... | |
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realmaster
Underboss
1969 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 09/19/2006 10:26 PM |
| Posted By Sir Bozak The Damned on 09/15/2006 5:02 PM
Hopefully. I, as many hope we just let all these things go so webmaster can devote all his time on this website. Please give him a chance guys...
I agree with this. I Really like this site. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
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