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| | Author | Messages | |
SYB
Warrior
328 Posts
    
 | | 02/12/2007 7:11 AM |
| Everyone who is a thief and a liar feel free to spread leaked information. For my part, I do not wish to be either. You may not be the person who stole from WotC directly, when you spread leaked information, but you are furthering someone else's theft. I believe it reveals the moral character of people when they either choose to spread or not spread leaked information. I certainly would never trade with or buy from someone who spread leaked information, because they have just proven that they have no respect for a contract or other people's property. If this were actual property (instead of intellectual property), the people who took the stolen property (the leak) and gave it to other people would be guilty of a crime.
Stand up and show some character. Do not spread leaks. When someone informs you about a leak and you have any reason to believe they are the source of the leak (or know the source of the leak), report them to WotC so that WotC may sue them for breach of contract.
-SYB | |
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| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 7:19 AM |
| Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
Everyone who is a thief and a liar feel free to spread leaked information.
Sorry to disappoint your high moral standards SYB, I guess I'm a liar, a thief and have no character. I should be ashamed. Tsk tsk on me. I'm a very bad man.
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Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Tgt
Sergeant
574 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 7:27 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 02/12/2007 7:19 AM Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
Everyone who is a thief and a liar feel free to spread leaked information. Sorry to disappoint your high moral standards SYB, I guess I'm a liar, a thief and have no character. I should be ashamed. Tsk tsk on me. I'm a very bad man. | |
VINDICATED Champion of the Mounted Blackguard
DoD called shot: Phrenic Manticore
They´re taking the Hobbits to Isengard!
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1752017962119496176 | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3389 Posts
Netherlands
| | 02/12/2007 7:28 AM |
| Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
Everyone who is a thief and a liar feel free to spread leaked information. For my part, I do not wish to be either. You may not be the person who stole from WotC directly, when you spread leaked information, but you are furthering someone else's theft.
SYB
Ok, thief you explained, but liar? Come on, let's keep name-calling to a minimum.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
|
Star
Sergeant
978 Posts
New Britain, CT
| | 02/12/2007 7:29 AM |
| In order for someone to be sued for breach of contract they have to you know... sign a contract. I'm sure that many WOTC employee's do sign nondisclosure agreements but those aren't the people spreading leaks. The people that spread the leaks are interns or guys that work in the mailroom or perhaps factory workers producing the mini's.
Take Cyrusprisoner for example. He seemed to know very little about the mini's he leaked. He didn't know what anything was called and his descriptions were vague at best. Everyone pretty much ignored him until he said something about a centipede like creature with big claws and then the Quori was put into a preview. Then his claims changed from wild speculation to actual leaks - because there's no way that he could have just made that up. Do you really think that Cyrusprisoner signed a nondisclosure agreement? Based on his writing style I think that he's either very young or English is not his native language. He's either the child of someone that works at WOTC or works at a factory in China. Good luck suing him. | |
Champion of Gromph Baenre | |
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Oryan77
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 10:25 AM |
| Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
You may not be the person who stole from WotC directly, when you spread leaked information, but you are furthering someone else's theft. I understand gamers more than anyone else I've met like to pretend that they have a higher standard of morals than the rest of the world. But I would be careful trying to be vocal about your supposed morals...you usually come off as contradicting and hypocritical when it comes down to it. I'm not targeting you specifically, and I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just speaking about people in general.
I will put my life savings on a bet that if a wotc warehouse employee came to your home and showed you a picture of a few new minis coming out that you weren't supposed to see yet, you would immediately call your group of friends and start telling them about it. There's no way you're going to kick that WotC guy out of your house for corrupting your eyes to some leaked images. I also don't believe you could make that your little secret and not tell your closest friends.
I would also put money on it that you own some bootleg pdf files of D&D material, tv show movie files, or mp3 songs. I haven't met a gamer yet that doesn't own a few of these things that they have gotten illegally somewhere in the past. Yet everyone on gamer forums blabbers about how great their moral code is. Whatever 
It's just not cool coming on here and trying to tell people they are criminals for enjoying a spoiler here and there. It's a friggen picture of a plastic toy! I think god can forgive me for being giddy like a school girl when I see these sneak peaks.
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Miniatures for sale *more added 07/17/08*: Click here
I will buy your unwanted D&D WotC minis collection (DDM only). Email me your asking price! | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 10:28 AM |
| Posted By Harneloot on 02/09/2007 9:06 PM
This is the only fan base that this quirk exists
in. Video Games, Sports, Comics, Technology, Finance - its all about
the latest rumor and inside info. I still don't get how/why Hasbro/WoTC
gets a special deflection modifier on this.
---
The main difference is that the people who make the game are also part of the community.
If this is the only fanbase that shows concern and respect for those
who work to make a product and game we enjoy and who are part of our
community as a whole then I, for one, am glad to be part of it.
I'd personally much rather help foster an environment wherein the
designers et al are comfortable and involved then get a grainy pic of a
figure a week early, I like spoilers but I can live happily without
them. I would, however, be much less happy if this spoiler info came at
the expense of those community members who create the pdocut we love so
much.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 10:31 AM |
| Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
Everyone
who is a thief and a liar feel free to spread leaked
information.
Oh come now, that is just rubbish. This kind of hyperbolic nonsense is as
ridiculous as those histrionic moralists who equated cherrypicking for
theft, murder and babykilling.
Disproportionately over-the-top statements and insults like this hurt your position, not help it.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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SYB
Warrior
328 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 10:59 AM |
| Posted By Oryan77 on 02/12/2007 10:25 AM Posted By SYB on 02/12/2007 7:11 AM
You may not be the person who stole from WotC directly, when you spread leaked information, but you are furthering someone else's theft. I understand gamers more than anyone else I've met like to pretend that they have a higher standard of morals than the rest of the world. But I would be careful trying to be vocal about your supposed morals...you usually come off as contradicting and hypocritical when it comes down to it. I'm not targeting you specifically, and I'm not trying to be insulting. I'm just speaking about people in general. I will put my life savings on a bet that if a wotc warehouse employee came to your home and showed you a picture of a few new minis coming out that you weren't supposed to see yet, you would immediately call your group of friends and start telling them about it. There's no way you're going to kick that WotC guy out of your house for corrupting your eyes to some leaked images. I also don't believe you could make that your little secret and not tell your closest friends. I would also put money on it that you own some bootleg pdf files of D&D material, tv show movie files, or mp3 songs. I haven't met a gamer yet that doesn't own a few of these things that they have gotten illegally somewhere in the past. Yet everyone on gamer forums blabbers about how great their moral code is. Whatever It's just not cool coming on here and trying to tell people they are criminals for enjoying a spoiler here and there. It's a friggen picture of a plastic toy! I think god can forgive me for being giddy like a school girl when I see these sneak peaks.
Well, when Shoe showed me (and a number of others) some previews of minis from Blood War (and one from Unhallowed) at GenCon, despite the fact that he didn't say I had to, I kept my mouth shut about all of them until actual previews had been shown.
-SYB | |
| |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 11:25 AM |
| If you think I'm dispicable for posting the list on my site, let me tell you something straight up...
I have had in my hot little hands the entire set list for Unhallowed for over 3 weeks. I have not posted them, because I was asked not to and I won't. It's that simple. Someone tells me something and gives me a green light, I post it, if they say keep it hush hush, I no post. I may have my own sense of ethics, but I do indeed have them. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 11:42 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 02/12/2007 11:25 AM
I
have had in my hot little hands the entire set list for
Unhallowed for over 3 weeks. I have not posted them, because I was
asked not to and I won't. It's that simple. Someone tells me something
and gives me a green light, I post it, if they say keep it hush hush, I
no post. I may have my own sense of ethics, but I do indeed have them.
Babykiller.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3389 Posts
Netherlands
| | 02/12/2007 11:47 AM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 02/12/2007 11:25 AM
I have had in my hot little hands the entire set list for Unhallowed for over 3 weeks.
Wow, you probably will be happy when the D&D XP pre-release event hits this weekend. That's the green light to get posting straight away (and I hope you will  ).
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 12:19 PM |
| | I'll definately be keeping my eye out. Â Â (or maybe one of these spare baby eyes I have lying around here...) | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
gausse
Sergeant
961 Posts
Wisconsin
| | 02/12/2007 12:23 PM |
| Stand up and show some character. Do not spread leaks. When someone informs you about a leak and you have any reason to believe they are the source of the leak (or know the source of the leak), report them to WotC so that WotC may sue them for breach of contract.
Ummm. Yea and don't J-walk, or swear, or have sex before marriage, or speed, or talk on the cellphone while driving, or run with scissors.
Oh yeah, and Greyhaze how about sending me that list. | |
270+ Trades Completed (194 maxminis | 50 wizards | 29 hordelings)
References: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/view/topic/forumid/53/postid/435268/Default.aspx
H/W List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=gausse
Bad Trades: Chaotic Good (Strongbow Lone Eagle), dndonuts, Allard, ScottWallace
Email: gausse2@yahoo.com
| |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 12:46 PM |
| | I'd love to pass the list on, but I was told to hold on to it. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
wicked cool
Underboss
2122 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 12:57 PM |
| | knowing what you know can you in your humble opinion rate the set compated to recent sets. were u suprised in any way. Is the set infomration going to be released this week by wotc anyway? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 1:06 PM |
| Rating: Not as good as underdark.
Surprised: Okay. I only have the set list, not the stats. There are (judging by the names) some minis I am really looking forward to, but others may not be so excited.
Wotc?: I can't answer anything on their behalf.
| |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
|
yack
Commander
3254 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 02/12/2007 1:12 PM |
| Wow whats with the name calling,thats all uncalled for....? Greyhaze great to see you have the list and didn't say anything till now, thats shows honesty and great backbone.
AS for the leaks from Cyrusprisoner I think they were on the borderline harmless as there was no pics and very brief descriptions. Does it make it right no...? But leaks are leaks and yes they will always exist as long as we crave for the info. And I love leaks.... but lets back off from the name calling.
the whole set should be leaked by the end of the weekend as it should be on display. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Oryan77
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 1:22 PM |
| Posted By greyhaze on 02/12/2007 12:46 PM
I'd love to pass the list on, but I was told to hold on to it.
Would you say that Cyrusprisoner actually knew what he was talking about? Or were his comments lucky guesses and wrong about the rest? | |
Miniatures for sale *more added 07/17/08*: Click here
I will buy your unwanted D&D WotC minis collection (DDM only). Email me your asking price! | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
6648 Posts
| | 02/12/2007 1:24 PM |
| | His list is bang on, but even with his vague discriptions it's hard to tell exactly what he was referring to. When he named the Tsucora before it came out, I knew he wasn't just guessing. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
| 
jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 02/12/2007 1:31 PM |
| ... edited by LCS:
...
Please do not repost the information here, do not post asking for the leaked information, or post regarding how that information might be obtained outside of maxminis.
I think that LCS was pretty clear, here. We should not indicate (in a Maxminis posting) that these leaks are available in specific locations. Accordingly, it might be advisable to edit some of the preceeding posts to prevent this thread from being nixed to never-never land.
There is a time and a place for everything. It has been decided that Maxminis (and Hordelings) are not the place for NDA breeching leaks.  There are good arguments on both sides of the line - there are good arguments to allow such leaks, and there are good arguments that this is not the place for such information.  Maxminis, as an entity, had to reach a decision on how to handle the situation, and it decided to follow one of many reasonable courses.Â
Some disagree with the decision that was made. Disagreements happen. However, that does not mean that people - on either side of the argument - should be calling names or be disrespectful. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
| |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6802 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/12/2007 1:32 PM |
| Maxminis policy before this set was that small, periodic leaks were ok. It was the big leaks that were a no-no. It was actually within previously posted guidelines that it was ok for an occasional small leak.
This policy was decided after the War of the Dragon Queen leak explosion.
Is the policy changing again?
Where, in maxminis policy, is it considered ok to call people thiefs and liars to do what appeared to be within maxminis leak guidelines by sharing small leaks? When a single picture of the guy with the big sword popped up, maxminis responded as strongly as they did when there was the huge WotDQ leak. Delete every single picture and comment regarding any leak seems to be the current standard. That's a big step from the policy established at WotDQ time.
I think that my enthusiasm takes a hit every time there is a big argument about leaks and someone like SYB calls out names like thief and liar.
I still don't understand the connection between the word liar and spreading a small leak where we have made no commitment or agreement.
The leaks do more damage when every single tiny leak is hammered upon as hard as a big leak. While hammering on leaks may cut down on leaks, it won't wipe them away completely. But it does create hard feelings.
EDIT:Â Note that I wrote this post before noticing jgsugden's post, which took place while I was writing.
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"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12318 Posts
The G Spot
| | 02/12/2007 1:34 PM |
| Posted by sage raistlin
Stupid stupid stupid. The whole point of sites like this it to get
information about upcoming releases/rumors. If you guess are going to
act like the Gestapo about it, then then it changes the entire idea of
the site.
This should be a site to freely publish infomation about figure. If
somoene breaks a NDA, as Mods it's not up to you to enforce it. The
figures for the next two sets are most likely being made right now. If
somone in the factory sees/reads them and posts about them, so be it.
We are talking about figures, not national security issues that need to
be keep secret. If the factory were stateside, we'd now about the
figures almost the instant they were made. The list the was released
was so vague and had no picutes that it is stupid to jump on it and
delete. Mods are over reacting to the whole leaks situation period.
All this does is hurt the community as a whole, people are going to be
afraid to post info/rumors for fear of the Mods banning them, just
because they don't want to offend WOTC. Leaks and rumors can have a
positive effect on preorders and excitement in reguards to prereleases.
If I have seen the whole set or close to it a few weeks before release,
it will tempt me to preorder more before the release.
Mods, you need to lay off the gestapo tactics and allow this community
to do what it is ment to do. Have open and honest disscussions about
what we love best. WOTC need to understand this community is not
employed by them and in this current time everything will get out and
leak. If they are going to be aggressive about it towards message
boards on the internet, then it's it going to end up hurting the
company as a whole and give them negative PR. Just look at Games
Workshop and how their aggressive greed has had a major impact on the
company overall sales.
I'm sure my post will last all of five mins before this gets taken down
and I get banned, but you know what. I'm tired of the whole walking on
eggshells and this needed to be said.
Please educate yourself about what the Gestapo were. Comparing Maxminis moderators to Nazi Gestapo is insulting and infuriating.
If I truly were the Gestapo you would be banned by now.
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6802 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 02/12/2007 1:38 PM |
| NOTE:
In making any comments I have made, I am not trying to change maxminis policy. If, as jgsugden wrote, the policy changes (as it looks like it was), then I am not debating the policies. I accept the policies the moderators decide on.
Basically, there is no longer going to be any information about future DDM at maxminis that is not available at WotC. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 02/12/2007 1:48 PM |
| Posted By Corim Danex on 02/12/2007 1:38 PM
NOTE:
In making any comments I have made, I am not trying to change maxminis policy. If, as jgsugden wrote, the policy changes (as it looks like it was), then I am not debating the policies. I accept the policies the moderators decide on.
Basically, there is no longer going to be any information about future DDM at maxminis that is not available at WotC.
I am not discussing a change in policy (I think). At least, that is not my intent. It is my understanding that the policy (at least since the start of the LCS era) has been that leaks created by a violation of an NDA were not allowed, regardless of whether they were one photo or many photos. Recent handling of certain situations seems to mesh with this understanding.Â
If I am in error, I'd appreciate someone pointing me to the correct rule.
As for there "no longer going to be any information about future DDM at maxminis that is not available at WotC...":
Sorces of leaks that can be discussed (AFAIK) include, but are not limited to:
WotC posted information.
Magazine information.
Observations by people that were not subject to an NDA about situations that were not covered (directly or indirectly) by an NDA - such as observations at conventions, or observations of demos. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 02/12/2007 1:59 PM |
| As the ‘Be Polite’ isn’t working, this thread will stay locked.
Some of you shouldn't be suprised to get a warning via PM.
 It will still get moved into forums discussion.  Future threads on topic should be started there too.
Though I think everything that can be said has been, and probably more than should be. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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