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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
    
 | | 10/26/2005 8:01 PM |
| | recovered topic 10437 | |
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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 10/26/2005 8:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by SilentG
Ok, so Valkerata the Justice Archon has a sword of frost. She hits my orc champ and decides to use justice strike. Does the justice strike ignore her normal damage of (10 magic +5 cold) and instead do (25 magic) or is the frost damage just piled on top for (25 magic +5 cold)?
Just wondering about this since I havn't seen a ruling and I can kinda see either way, but I'd lean towards justice strike ignores all original bonuses. That makes more sense conceptually for me (he's being hit with his own attack).
The frost damage is added on afterwards. I'll see if I can find the ruling and post a link. | |
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SilentG
Sergeant
616 Posts
| | 10/26/2005 8:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Veliq
quote:
Originally posted by SilentG
Ok, so Valkerata the Justice Archon has a sword of frost. She hits my orc champ and decides to use justice strike. Does the justice strike ignore her normal damage of (10 magic +5 cold) and instead do (25 magic) or is the frost damage just piled on top for (25 magic +5 cold)?
Just wondering about this since I havn't seen a ruling and I can kinda see either way, but I'd lean towards justice strike ignores all original bonuses. That makes more sense conceptually for me (he's being hit with his own attack).
The frost damage is added on afterwards. I'll see if I can find the ruling and post a link.
Thanks, cool.
btw - if you wanna jump on vassal I'm down for a game :).
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Completed trades: Zarnof, Ehren37, Eric is God, griffrat, cavedweller, Kyrinn, Blade, Humble Minion, Noghri, Ilarue
Reference thread http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9114
Champion of the fiendish, dire milk-cow | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1992 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 10/26/2005 11:10 PM |
| I'm not so sure I agree with Veliq on this one. Doesn't the weapon item modify a creature's base stats for purposes of the campaign game? Thus as I see it:
The +1 weapon item adds +1 to the attack roll, of course.
The Justice Archon may keep its own OR inherit the target's printed damage. "Printed" damage for "Justice Archon wielding frost blade" is (10 magic + 5 cold). When attacking an Orc Champ, it can choose to do native damage (10 magic + 5 cold) or may choose to inherit (25 magic) damage from the target's printed value.
Other thoughts on this? | |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
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| The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 10/26/2005 11:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
I'm not so sure I agree with Veliq on this one. Doesn't the weapon item modify a creature's base stats for purposes of the campaign game? Thus as I see it:
The +1 weapon item adds +1 to the attack roll, of course.
The Justice Archon may keep its own OR inherit the target's printed damage. "Printed" damage for "Justice Archon wielding frost blade" is (10 magic + 5 cold). When attacking an Orc Champ, it can choose to do native damage (10 magic + 5 cold) or may choose to inherit (25 magic) damage from the target's printed value.
Other thoughts on this?
I think it adds to the end. If it is under command by a St. Cuthbert and gets the effect it gets Justice strike +5, so yeh it gets the 5 on the cold as well I think.
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Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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TKort
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 1:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
I'm not so sure I agree with Veliq on this one. Doesn't the weapon item modify a creature's base stats for purposes of the campaign game? Thus as I see it:
The +1 weapon item adds +1 to the attack roll, of course.
The Justice Archon may keep its own OR inherit the target's printed damage. "Printed" damage for "Justice Archon wielding frost blade" is (10 magic + 5 cold). When attacking an Orc Champ, it can choose to do native damage (10 magic + 5 cold) or may choose to inherit (25 magic) damage from the target's printed value.
Other thoughts on this?
I'm afraid I disagree with Zippy and agree with Veliq.
Okay.. now that everyone's gotten back up off the floor and gotten back into their chairs...
the rules clarification in question is on Guy's fantastic pages:
http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DDM/Clarifications.html
The entire clarification on "justice strike" is very helpful, but I think the most telling part is where he talks about a JA with Magic weapon cast on it ignoring DR.. this implies to me that the damage the JA does is using it's own weapon, but instead stealing the DAMAGE of the target.. I believe the magic powers of a JA's weapon should add to the justice strike damage. This is still a slightly grey area but I think it is clear enough in Guy's clarification to deduce the above conclusion. We might still wanna ask him about our specific situation?
Tkort.
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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 1:31 AM |
| From Guy's Webpage:(http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DDM/Clarifications.html for those who don't know it's address)
Effects which increase, reduce, or otherwise modify the Justice Archon's damage apply normally when using Justice Strike. If the Justice Archon suffers from a ray of enfeeblement spell (damage -5 [minimum 5] and other effects), the Justice Archon applies a -5 penalty to the printed damage of the target's first melee attack. If the Justice Archon were the recipient of an allied Sword Archon's commander effect ("Followers with Fearless get melee damage +5."), the Justice Archon applies a +5 bonus to the printed damage of the target's first melee attack.
I do believe that a magic weapon would be considered an effect in this case. Well, not the weapon itself, but the EFFECT that the weapon gives to the Justice Archon. | |
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| E.C. Organizer
galneweinhaw
Commander
2646 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 2:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by TKort
I'm afraid I disagree with Zippy and agree with Veliq.
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Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. ~Dr Seuss | |
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SilentG
Sergeant
616 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 1:50 PM |
| Ok, so it seems that going by Guy's ruling:
The attacking JA gets to keep his magic item damage when using justice strike.
He does NOT get to inherit the damage of creature who's employing a magic weapon when justice striking. | |
Completed trades: Zarnof, Ehren37, Eric is God, griffrat, cavedweller, Kyrinn, Blade, Humble Minion, Noghri, Ilarue
Reference thread http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9114
Champion of the fiendish, dire milk-cow | |
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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 1:53 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by SilentG
Ok, so it seems that going by Guy's ruling:
The attacking JA gets to keep his magic item damage when using justice strike.
He does NOT get to inherit the damage of creature who's employing a magic weapon when justice striking.
Agreed | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1992 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 10/27/2005 1:57 PM |
| I agree with Guy, of course, and with your assessment thus far except:
Does a magic item change BASE creature values or modify those values as would a spell cast during a skirmish?
Answering that question (which I could not find in any rules) will settle this discussion.
So are you b4ring a Justice Archon who happens to have a modifying frost sword, or a new EC version of this creature, the "frost Sword Toting Justice Archon". | |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reference Thread, H/W List, Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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Veliq
Warrior
300 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 2:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zippy
I agree with Guy, of course, and with your assessment thus far except:
Does a magic item change BASE creature values or modify those values as would a spell cast during a skirmish?
Answering that question (which I could not find in any rules) will settle this discussion.
So are you b4ring a Justice Archon who happens to have a modifying frost sword, or a new EC version of this creature, the "frost Sword Toting Justice Archon".
Nothing changes the base damage. Base damage is determined only by what is printed on the card, nothing more. A frost wielding orc warrior who gets enfeebled still does 10 dmg (5mgc+5cold), whether on a crit or not. [(5x2-5)+5 cold]. | |
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