| Author | Messages | |
Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
    
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
| | 03/22/2005 9:33 PM |
| I've faced one of these once so far, and I'm not impressed. In that match, he never used the spell; just swung away. I guess it depends on what you're facing, but to me, the attacks seem more likely to deal the damage you want.
I think he's best when paired with undead he can heal with the spell, and not so great without that option.
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My H/W list is not current...
Trade Reference List
OLD Trade references (191) | |
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lalato
Underboss
1546 Posts
Urbana, IL
| | 03/22/2005 9:45 PM |
| I also pulled the AoN at the pre-release. By my second match I pretty much did the same thing. 15 guaranteed was just too much to pass up. However, when faced with a Skullcrusher and Mountain Orc that was ready to flank me, I used my attacks. I landed my first swing on the Skullcrusher Ogre and used my second to wack the Mountain Orc. So there are definitely times when you will use the attacks instead. [)]
--sam | |
I'm in Urbana, IL | |
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whatchamacallit
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 03/22/2005 10:14 PM |
| | To me it is a good piece: good stats overall, melee reach (so you can attack/heal from behind screeners and ability to heal undead is extremely useful i think. definitely a piece to look out for/ have by your side at all times | |
It's not because you're paranoid that they're not really after you!! | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2924 Posts
| | 03/22/2005 10:27 PM |
| | Yep, he gave me fits in the prerelease. DR5 and speed 8 were bad enough, but he hit with every friggin' attack! Against mega ACs teh spell works best, but against lower ACs the attacks do. He's fast, durable AND flexible. Of course, the Renegade Warlock pegging away for 10 a turn helped him out. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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| DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 03/22/2005 10:34 PM |
| | Unless you've got a full attack or a charge, why would you use the attack? Chance for 30dmg AND a move. Also, guarenteed damage is SO useful. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2924 Posts
| | 03/22/2005 10:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by psistef
Unless you've got a full attack or a charge, why would you use the attack? Chance for 30dmg AND a move. Also, guarenteed damage is SO useful.
Odds for 30. Does what you are hitting have better AC or saves? That's the question you have to ask yourself. Look at a Frenzied Berserker: Level 8/10 AC. The Inflict has a DC 0f 15. The berserker only needs to roll a 7 to "beat" it. The Aspect only has to not roll a 1 to hit it. Easy choice to swing away.
Now look at the Gold Champion. Basically a 50/50 chance you hit with teh first attack, have to roll a 15 with the second. The champ saves on a 9 or better. Easy choice to cast.
Add in buffs to either side and it may change. In sealed or draft, the Aspect got Greater Magic Weapon (+17/+12) and the Gold Champion gets greater resistance (save +3). Now, the Gold Champion saves on a 6 and the Aspect hits on an 8 and a 13. Much tougher choice. Aramil, Dwarf Srtificer, Half-Elf Hexblade, Cleric of Moradin, Cleric of Order, etc. all can shape the choice you would make. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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MGM
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 10:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by psistef
Unless you've got a full attack or a charge, why would you use the attack? Chance for 30dmg AND a move. Also, guarenteed damage is SO useful.
Odds for 30. Does what you are hitting have better AC or saves? That's the question you have to ask yourself. Look at a Frenzied Berserker: Level 8/10 AC. The Inflict has a DC 0f 15. The berserker only needs to roll a 7 to "beat" it. The Aspect only has to not roll a 1 to hit it. Easy choice to swing away.
I think inflict critical wounds has a DC 18...
Spells: 4th - Inflict critical wounds (unlimited uses, touch, 30 negative dmg, DC 18) | |
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chattan
Sergeant
393 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 11:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MGM
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by psistef
Unless you've got a full attack or a charge, why would you use the attack? Chance for 30dmg AND a move. Also, guarenteed damage is SO useful.
Odds for 30. Does what you are hitting have better AC or saves? That's the question you have to ask yourself. Look at a Frenzied Berserker: Level 8/10 AC. The Inflict has a DC 0f 15. The berserker only needs to roll a 7 to "beat" it. The Aspect only has to not roll a 1 to hit it. Easy choice to swing away.
I think inflict critical wounds has a DC 18...
Spells: 4th - Inflict critical wounds (unlimited uses, touch, 30 negative dmg, DC 18)
Yup...it definitely has DC 18. I think Gunthar may have been thinking about the Catfolk Wilder's Mind Thrust at 15. I played with both at the prerelease, so I'm intimately familiar with them. [:D]
chattan | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2924 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 1:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by chattan
quote:
Originally posted by MGM
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by psistef
Unless you've got a full attack or a charge, why would you use the attack? Chance for 30dmg AND a move. Also, guarenteed damage is SO useful.
Odds for 30. Does what you are hitting have better AC or saves? That's the question you have to ask yourself. Look at a Frenzied Berserker: Level 8/10 AC. The Inflict has a DC 0f 15. The berserker only needs to roll a 7 to "beat" it. The Aspect only has to not roll a 1 to hit it. Easy choice to swing away.
I think inflict critical wounds has a DC 18...
Spells: 4th - Inflict critical wounds (unlimited uses, touch, 30 negative dmg, DC 18)
Yup...it definitely has DC 18. I think Gunthar may have been thinking about the Catfolk Wilder's Mind Thrust at 15. I played with both at the prerelease, so I'm intimately familiar with them. [:D]
chattan
Woops, yeah, 18. That makes it even easier to choose, in some cases. Again, with a full attack on a Frenzied Berserker/Eye of Gruumsh, etc., I'm swinging away and taking the two probable hits for a more probable 30. Against the Gold Champion, I'm casting. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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slayer1
Sergeant
597 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 2:37 PM |
| | I think the best time to use his attack is when faced with creatures that have spell resistance. Fortunatly, most of the minis with speel resistance don't have uber armor classes too. | |
Har 25/80 De 35/60 Ar 43/60 GoL 61/72 Ab 42/60 Dk 43/60 Af 51/60 Ud 49/60 WD 50/60 | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3453 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 03/23/2005 2:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
Again, with a full attack on a Frenzied Berserker/Eye of Gruumsh, etc., I'm swinging away and taking the two probable hits for a more probable 30. Against the Gold Champion, I'm casting.
I agree it's an easy decision against a living creature with very high AC, where they're more likely to fail the save than you are to land both blows. I disagree that it's such a simple choice against a low AC target, even one with a relatively high save. If you start your turn within reach and you have to put 30 damage on your target, then sure, swing away. Consider the flexibility you have when you cast, though. You might do 30 damage, and you still have the opportunity to move afterward. Moving before or after your attack (or spell) can be tactically very important, so don't dismiss it. I've been in battles before where I knew, if my opponent just took an AoO, they could move and attack one of my more vulnerable pieces to put me at a disadvantage. Or, they could take one attack, re-assess, and then maybe move into a better tactical position. Most often, inexperienced players just use their full attack on whatever piece or pieces are available. Sometimes that's the right choice, but sometimes it's exactly what I want them to do. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2924 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 3:18 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Faragdar the Wise
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
Again, with a full attack on a Frenzied Berserker/Eye of Gruumsh, etc., I'm swinging away and taking the two probable hits for a more probable 30. Against the Gold Champion, I'm casting.
I agree it's an easy decision against a living creature with very high AC, where they're more likely to fail the save than you are to land both blows. I disagree that it's such a simple choice against a low AC target, even one with a relatively high save. If you start your turn within reach and you have to put 30 damage on your target, then sure, swing away. Consider the flexibility you have when you cast, though. You might do 30 damage, and you still have the opportunity to move afterward. Moving before or after your attack (or spell) can be tactically very important, so don't dismiss it. I've been in battles before where I knew, if my opponent just took an AoO, they could move and attack one of my more vulnerable pieces to put me at a disadvantage. Or, they could take one attack, re-assess, and then maybe move into a better tactical position. Most often, inexperienced players just use their full attack on whatever piece or pieces are available. Sometimes that's the right choice, but sometimes it's exactly what I want them to do.
Very true. I was just trying to keep the examples as simple as possible, which does not come easy for me. I like minutia. [)] | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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| DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 03/23/2005 6:28 PM |
| If my AoN has to move before attacking, then it will be casting every time. If I was only getting one attack for 15 anyway, why not cast and guarantee it?
I'll be thinking of this spell as a definate 15 damage that I can plan on, same way as a I consider a fireball a definite 10 damage.
I find that counting on that amount of damaged makes it easier to strategise, and I'm not disappointed or in trouble if everyone saves.
If it pops them for 30 damage, then that's just a happy bonus.
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Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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