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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
    
 | | 09/30/2005 10:19 AM |
| | recovered topic 9322 | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 09/30/2005 10:19 AM |
| Anything with Auto damage that isn't a spell could do fairly well.
Gauth would be one example, since it isn't affected by the Antimagic Eye or the Spell Resistance.
Another is Quad Beaters. 2 Orc Champ, 2 Ravager/Red Samurai. As long as you can protect your commander from assassination, the Red Sam/Orc Champ version is too fast for the Mage to run from forever. | |
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Pauper
Sergeant
508 Posts
| | 09/30/2005 12:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galerians
give me builds u would play in a 200 pt tournament that not only would beat archmage but would also beat beholder without using either of the two. have fun
That's actually a tough call, given that bands that are good against archmage tend not to be as good against beholder and vice versa.
If my primary goal was to beat beholder and archmage without playing either, I might go with something like this:
Clay Golem (56)
HEBI (43)
Valenar Commander (38)
Inspiring Marshall (29)
Greycloak Ranger + Wolf minion (15)
Xeph Warrior x6 (18)
Archmages hate the Golem because the only thing they can hurt him with are the empowered Melf's acid arrows, and that alone isn't enough to deal with a Fearless construct. Beholders hate the Golem because it's not a living creature (and thus the negative energy ray and flesh to stone ray don't affect it), which means unless he gets lucky enough to repeatedly roll a disintegrate ray, you're golden.
Meanwhile, as long as your Valenar is within six of your HEBI and Greycloak, you're firing two to five arrows per turn at the archmage/beholder no matter how many screeners he thinks he has - he's not a commander, so he's perfectly valid as a Valenar target.
The Xephs are there as tile grabbers and screeners - if your opponent wastes a beholder or archmage activation killing one, you're already moving ahead in the game. The only bad news is that the Xephs by themselves probably won't win the fodder war, even with the Greycloak minion to help. But if your HEBI and Greycloak can kill your opponent's big piece before he wipes out your screeners, you're probably OK.
Good luck!
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Pauper | |
Champion of the War Wizard of Cormyr | |
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rilos
Skirmisher
34 Posts
| | 09/30/2005 12:25 PM |
| plain old quad is still very effective with no poor matchup.
also, IMO a band built around hezrou and the clay golem works well against both. maybe
Hezrou
Clay Golem
Gravehound
Cursed Spirit x3
Gnoll Skeleton
Warrior Skeleton x4
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 09/30/2005 4:54 PM |
| | Holy crap! Someone actually used an ELF RANGER?! And did WELL!?! [:0] | |
Successful Trades (31) | Trades Pending (0)
12th Place in the 2005 Nationals, and I owe it all to the Minis Training Montage.
Champion of Celestial Giant Stag Beetles | |
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CorneilleLoiseau
Sergeant
402 Posts
Qc, Canada
| | 09/30/2005 5:43 PM |
| Pauper made a good response to your question.
In my opinion, to win against the beholder, you need an undead or construct (not living construct) or really High save shield, example are LG= Ulmo, LSD CG= MAC, Clay Golem LE= any undead or dread guard (really good) and CE= Clay golem, undead, cursed spirit, burning skeleton is really a good guy cause he has immunity to fire and cold which are two popular methods for screening the beholder ray (Gauth, Efreeti and Chraal).
For the archmage, forget spell resistance on your guy because he has spell penetration. Spell resistance all on the other side could be okay but the problem here is the lack of mobility which is probematic. If you go that way the best is the clay Golem. clay golem with good commanders (I like the Lich Necro in this regard) could be okay.
I think you most need mobility and/or high HP and/or high damage output(not by spell for obvious reason) to double move the archmage and base it. For this reason the Quad screened with burning skeleton (beholder) is a good option.
Good initiative control could be critical to double move the archmage and double attack it before he flee, so for the quad go with Ryld, red sam and orc champion as first choice.
Overmore, don't put all your eggs in the same box, one big hitter with two swords is your worst nightmare. With his mobility, he will easily win.
As fodder Orc Savage could be okay as well as barb. Merc.
Good luck Galerians
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andytum
Sergeant
400 Posts
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| 10/03/2005 12:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by galerians
give me builds u would play in a 200 pt tournament that not only would beat archmage but would also beat beholder without using either of the two. have fun
Well I was able to do pretty well vs. these bands with CG High Speed Animal band which included Greenfang, 2 Dire Bears, Wand Expert and a bunch of Timber Wolves and Hyenas... | |
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Chris Orlando
Warrior
187 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 1:17 PM |
| Hey, this is my first post and im replying to the use of the archmage in the 200 point warband. I found that a wonderful combo is the following:
Archmage
Dark Travler
Frenzy beserker
(7 point unit of your choice)
The rason i feel that this is such an effective war band is because the archmage is best used when he has a screen infront of him. There isn't a better screne then the dark traveler and the beserker because the traveler gives a melee reach of 2, and you do not want to move into the beserkers attack of op range, because if you do she can nail you for 30 magice from the attack of op, plus 60 more from her attacks in the following ativation period. The dark traveler is pritty nifty to because he gets a psionic ability to deal about 20 range damage (with a save). Over all these seems like a pritty effective CG warband and if you guys find any gapeing wholes let me know. | |
Zardnaar, One dork to rule them all. | |
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wolfmanisu
Sneak
101 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 2:28 PM |
| | There isn't a problem when a creature moves into a threatened area, only out of one. Melee reach 2 doesn't give an increased threatened area, it is still only adjacent squares. Melee reach 2 really only helps the FB on the offensive to keep her from getting a full attack in retaliation. | |
Successful Trades With: PIGSNOT | DNDJUNKIE | elf_ranger | ckissee | Troll4Death | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 10/10/2005 2:59 PM |
| I've also used the dark traveller with the half-giant P warrior in order to keep him alive longer and to make him a more potent cleave source. It was tricky to set up and required a beautiful piece of tactical maneuvering involving moving the Dark Traveller close to the MFT, then casting hustle and moving the HGPW within his new melee reach of the MFT, then rolling a 1.
Actually the HPGW might not be a bad choice for killing an archmage due to his insane speed and high damage attack, since using the HGPW you can base anything, anywhere, anytime and since the archmage wants to avoid being based by hitters I could see this working pretty well, since most of the time you could move, attack, then get an attack of opportunity as the archmage flees (don't you love it when a hugely powerfull piece flees from a shoddy second tier piece...)
By my calculations according to the above senario the archmage has a 41% chance of taking 40 damage from the first attack (assuming dissolving weapon) and a similar chance of taking 25 from the AoO, nearly killing him, then another chance of taking 25 from the HGPW's move to catch up.
During all of that the archmage can to at most 20 damage (empowered Melf's acid arrow) back. Even if the archmage expends one of his swords, it won't save him.
Not that I'm saying it would ever go this smoothly, but it would certainly mess with the archmage's face. What a band like this really needs is another hitter or two, or perhaps a bladesinger as a commander to get the HGPW's to hit chance up. | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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