Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
    
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 9:43 AM |
| On the Gith Monk / YM consider a Couatl variant (using the couatl as a secondary commander, lose one Gith)
I personally don't think dual-slayer bands are proven. Single slayer yes, not dual.
LG quad - not really competitive without a decent commander rating. The couatl works w/ the JA and Marut as they are fearless and the YM works with the Giths as they have somewhat decent saves. Any multi-hitter non-fearless LG build needs to include a Cleric of Order, Dol Arrah, PDK or other 5+ commander rating. This is really a Couatl + commander multi-hitter band and not a quad (as one of the hitters could easily be Kord). You could fit in 4x32 hitters I think ... very similar to your Snake Kord.
I think the bands will have some more proven variations than simply a quad or 5 hitter. I think some pieces will simply work better with others. This is an area that still needs to settle out. Urthok, Rakshasa, Blackguard, Dark Naga and even the Orog are all solid commander choices ... heck even the Trog could be useful (but his commander effect is less so). I think there are definite sub-types here that need to be called out. Dark Naga, for intance, works exceptionally well with Gauths, Helmed Horrors. LE has alot of options, but the most competitive permutations still need to be ferreted out. The Urthok 5-hitter is a good example of one of these permutations...
I also know alot of folks are playing w/ the Xendrik Champ and Mounted Drow Patrol trying to get it to work out. I've got my doubts on the Xendrik but the MDP could be sweet. | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 11/16/2005 11:25 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
Gith monk-young master aka monk band.
YM
Gith monk x4
Filler
Options: replace a gith monk with ember, another commander, or the slayer of domiel. Replace 2 gith monks with ulmo. Or use a standard bearer in the filler slot.
[:D]
AKA G.A.S. (Gith Assassin Squad) and it works real well. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 11:33 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain
quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
Gith monk-young master aka monk band.
YM
Gith monk x4
Filler
Options: replace a gith monk with ember, another commander, or the slayer of domiel. Replace 2 gith monks with ulmo. Or use a standard bearer in the filler slot.
[:D]
AKA G.A.S. (Gith Assassin Squad) and it works real well.
The couatl/YM/Gith x3 is freaking mean. It won map init and made my Naga/Champs/Gauth/Horror band fight on the mithril mines and Jesse tore me apart, the only figure I took out was the YM and that was during clean up time. Those dang monks are just mean.
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Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 11/16/2005 12:27 PM |
| | I think the PDK could have a slight resergence paired with JAs and Marut, since the fear cone goes straight through them with no probs. | |
Thousands of Zulu's, behind You!
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Champion of the Dragon Disciple | |
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Hobbun
Skirmisher
32 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 1:51 PM |
| quote:
Snake Kord Couatl + AoK bands
Couatl
AoK
JA x2
CoY
Filler
Options: replace a JA with another hitter (gith monk, rikka etc)
I am counting up over 200 points and that doesn't even include the filler.
Couatl 42
AoK 65
JA x2 64
CoY (Cleric of Yondalla?) 54
Total: 226
Is there something I am missing or misinterpreting here? | |
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General_Boy
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 1:55 PM |
| | The cleric of yondalla is only 14 points. The Champion of Yondalla is 54 points. | |
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Hobbun
Skirmisher
32 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 1:59 PM |
| | Doh, that is what I was mistaking it for. I even put Cleric in my post. My bad. Thanks for correction. | |
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shemnon
Warrior
279 Posts
| | 11/16/2005 3:53 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
LE 5 hitter band the first band I though of after seeing the duergar champ spoiler. Inspired by the EoG + orc champ x4 band. Don't suppose it's really competitive, but I like it, and I think its fun!
Urthok
Duergar champ x5
Options: replace urthok with mind flayer or a cheaper commander to hit 8 activations. But IMO urthok is still the best value-for-money commander 35pts and below...
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the LE Quint band. With conceal and their higher ACs the duergars are more durable than any of the CE quad/quints and under command their secondary attack is better than the orc champions primary attack!
What keeps it currently from being competitive is the 12 figure limit. At 8 figures you are only one phase over-activated, and with a proper dog-pile you can even that quick. | |
The Miniatures War College -- Advenio paratus. Egressus melior paratus. | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 1:10 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
On the Gith Monk / YM consider a Couatl variant (using the couatl as a secondary commander, lose one Gith)
Added to the list.
quote:
I personally don't think dual-slayer bands are proven. Single slayer yes, not dual.
What then would the optimal single slayer build? Should bands be built to capitalise on the slayer's marked target ability, or should we consider the slayer as just another hitter option available to LG (and view the marked target as just gravy rather than the main course?)
quote:
LG quad - not really competitive without a decent commander rating. The couatl works w/ the JA and Marut as they are fearless and the YM works with the Giths as they have somewhat decent saves. Any multi-hitter non-fearless LG build needs to include a Cleric of Order, Dol Arrah, PDK or other 5+ commander rating. This is really a Couatl + commander multi-hitter band and not a quad (as one of the hitters could easily be Kord). You could fit in 4x32 hitters I think ... very similar to your Snake Kord.
Perhaps not with rikka, but the JA and giths both wouldn't have much problems with MCs if we squeeze in a CoY (would have to drop the slayer though, its too ex). Although an MC at +12 for the gith monk isn't exactly stellar...
The reason I spilt LG quad from snake kord is because by including a kord, the most you can get is a 3-hitter band (and thus it's not quad). And secondly in snake lord, the snake is mandatory (no snake, no kord), while LG quad does not have such a restriction (although it is always wise to include the couatl in any LG band).
quote:
I think the bands will have some more proven variations than simply a quad or 5 hitter. I think some pieces will simply work better with others. This is an area that still needs to settle out. Urthok, Rakshasa, Blackguard, Dark Naga and even the Orog are all solid commander choices ... heck even the Trog could be useful (but his commander effect is less so). I think there are definite sub-types here that need to be called out. Dark Naga, for intance, works exceptionally well with Gauths, Helmed Horrors. LE has alot of options, but the most competitive permutations still need to be ferreted out. The Urthok 5-hitter is a good example of one of these permutations...
I've realised too. LG, LE are like CE now, with many possible pieces to choose from in their quad bands. The possible permutations are endless, but I'm trying my best to divide them into rough types for ease of differentiation.
quote:
I also know alot of folks are playing w/ the Xendrik Champ and Mounted Drow Patrol trying to get it to work out. I've got my doubts on the Xendrik but the MDP could be sweet.
I like the MDP too. It could have a place in trifecta bands, although I've always preferred the sheer power a quad has over a trifecta. | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 1:12 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain
quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
Gith monk-young master aka monk band.
YM
Gith monk x4
Filler
Options: replace a gith monk with ember, another commander, or the slayer of domiel. Replace 2 gith monks with ulmo. Or use a standard bearer in the filler slot.
[:D]
AKA G.A.S. (Gith Assassin Squad) and it works real well.
The couatl/YM/Gith x3 is freaking mean. It won map init and made my Naga/Champs/Gauth/Horror band fight on the mithril mines and Jesse tore me apart, the only figure I took out was the YM and that was during clean up time. Those dang monks are just mean.
Unfortunately the monks have quite a few bad match-ups, namely undead, elementals and constructs. And with the ever-increasing presence of such pieces, especially competitve ones, the monks may not be viable enough to be truly tier 1.
But it's really nasty against susceptible opponents though! | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 1:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by One_Wing
I think the PDK could have a slight resergence paired with JAs and Marut, since the fear cone goes straight through them with no probs.
Speed 4 on the PDK has always been the most crippling factor. I've not yet seen a band with PDK that is considered optimised and tier 1.
What do others think? Is the PDK a viable choice? If the general consensus is yes, I'll be happy to place it in the above list. | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 1:16 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Hobbun
Doh, that is what I was mistaking it for. I even put Cleric in my post. My bad. Thanks for correction.
Hee, you'll never see the champion of yondalla mentioned in any competitive band anyway... [)] | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 1:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by shemnon
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the LE Quint band. With conceal and their higher ACs the duergars are more durable than any of the CE quad/quints and under command their secondary attack is better than the orc champions primary attack!
What keeps it currently from being competitive is the 12 figure limit. At 8 figures you are only one phase over-activated, and with a proper dog-pile you can even that quick.
I personally love the band, after all I came up with it without stealing or copying any ideas from others, although of course others have probably thought of it way before me... [)]
I personally think it is a rather powerful band, but I'm not sure if having 5 hitters is better than having 4 hitters but full 8 activations. I've considered using a cheaper commander in place of urthok to hit 8 activations, but that's a very risky proposition with the appearance of the wizard tech and rikka. Besides, urthok gives the duergar champs a very respectable +15 to MCs.
So which is better, 5 duergar champs, or LE quad? What do you guys think?
P.S.: with urthok, the duergar champ's 2nd attack is at +12, which is worse than the orc champ's primary attack, not better... [)] | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 11/17/2005 8:17 AM |
| @Evil_boy
quote:
Unfortunately the monks have quite a few bad match-ups, namely undead, elementals and constructs. And with the ever-increasing presence of such pieces, especially competitve ones, the monks may not be viable enough to be truly tier 1.
I disagree. Here's why:
Undead-
There are currently no tier one undead warbands. Lord Soth/Beholder is the closest but the monks do not have a bad match up at all. They could swoop in and put three 30 damage autohits on the beholder or three 20 damage autohits on Soth. They have good saves and the YM has evade damage. Not to mention the fact that Soth will be whiffing quite a lot against AC 25. If I was the monk pilot I would shoot right for the Beholder. I'd like to see the Beholder pass 11 stun saves of DC 18.
Elementals-
I assume the elemental tier one warband you refer to is the triple Chraals. The monks do not have a bad match up here either if you think about it. One small opening and the monks can shoot through and put a potential 30 damage on the commander. The Chraals have just +10 to hit against AC 25 and if you use the Couatl it will significantly reduce the cold damage. Again, the monks can ignore the Chraal and target the commander.
Constructs-
The problem with construct bands is their speed, usually only 4 or a speed 6 with a large base (not much better really). The monks with speed 10 can dictate the playing field much better and, even though immune to stun, the auto natural 20 and bonus damage from the YM can still drop 20 damage on them in an instant. The constructs also suffer from poor hp to cost ratio so if one of them (like a Marut) takes 60 damage from three GMs then they are just one or two hits away from being eliminated.
Unless something changes in War Drums you will be seeing a lot of Githzerai Monks. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 8:41 AM |
| You nailed it Chad ... those creatures that hare immune to stuns, etc. either have a poor HP/cost ratio, poor to-hit, etc. Even things that are immune to crits are looking at 75 HP auto-damage (20 from each monk plus an empowered sonic orb). That drops Soth right there. Heck if you wanted to that's nearly a dead Chraal. From there you could play keep-away and win on points.
evil_boy - my point about the LG / LE power bands (quad/quint) is that many of them are VERY specific and only work in a specific configuration. A CE quad is pretty interchangable, but an LE 4 hitter band (even though it has plenty of options) isn't often something that will remain truly competitive if you swap things out into more random configurations. It's a big deal if you drop a duergar and put in a Chraal ... you've got to take the requires-commander into account. An Efreeti is not an aberration and if you use one instead of a Gauth you should consider what your synergies look like, etc. Some configurations are, I think, going to settle out as the better options. | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 8:47 AM |
| | Ha, apparently I was pretty convincing with "my" monk build last night. [)] | |
I am not gone. | |
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shemnon
Warrior
279 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 8:53 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
quote:
Originally posted by shemnon
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the LE Quint band. With conceal and their higher ACs the duergars are more durable than any of the CE quad/quints and under command their secondary attack is better than the orc champions primary attack!
What keeps it currently from being competitive is the 12 figure limit. At 8 figures you are only one phase over-activated, and with a proper dog-pile you can even that quick.
I personally love the band, after all I came up with it without stealing or copying any ideas from others, although of course others have probably thought of it way before me... [)]
I personally think it is a rather powerful band, but I'm not sure if having 5 hitters is better than having 4 hitters but full 8 activations. I've considered using a cheaper commander in place of urthok to hit 8 activations, but that's a very risky proposition with the appearance of the wizard tech and rikka. Besides, urthok gives the duergar champs a very respectable +15 to MCs.
So which is better, 5 duergar champs, or LE quad? What do you guys think?
P.S.: with urthok, the duergar champ's 2nd attack is at +12, which is worse than the orc champ's primary attack, not better... [)]
For some reason I got it in my head that OCs were 12/7, not 13/8. Still, it's one off.
OC does (considering AC and conceal) an average of 21.5625 HP a round to the DC and 3.02 rounds to kill. The DC does (w/o command) 26.25 to the OC, and 3.04 rounds to kill the OC. Very comperable and cheaper!
For 8 activation variant of quint, I would replace a Duergar champion with a Xorn and 10pts of filler (depends on my mood, 2 kobold miners, 2 blues, etc.). This Xorn would count as the fifth hitter against low AC bands because under command and w/ flanking (easy w/ burrow) it gets a respectable +12 attack for 20. It's still High AC and good HP with nice immunities. | |
The Miniatures War College -- Advenio paratus. Egressus melior paratus. | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 9:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
Ha, apparently I was pretty convincing with "my" monk build last night. [)]
I watched the whole sordid affair. I knew these guys were nasty but GOOD LORD! Jesse took a somewhat big gamble right at the beginning that served him really well.
I really think YM + 3 GM are going to dominate into the near future. How you fill the rest of the band will be a matter of taste, and a reaction to your local match-ups. I like adding a 4th Monk to counter a mirror-match, but a Justice Archon gives you a nice flying threat. I think I've decided that buffers (Artificer, Eberk, etc) are not the way to go, but Aramil might be a nice addition. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 10:15 AM |
| | Have others tried or considered variants of the YM/Gith band? In particular YM/2xGith/Ulmo and YM/2xGith/Slayer/CoO leap to my mind. Any thoughts that these builds could also be competitive, or not? The speed, versatility and potential damage output of these types of bands appear interesting. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 10:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
FYI, I've been cogitating on Ulmo as an addition to a BPM/Dwarf band. He's survivable and gives the dwarves a ranged threat they need. The bonus damage from a BPM is gravy ... and he provides you a can opener for the high ACs.
Mind sharing what BPM/Dwarf combinations you've been considering with Ulmo? Unless it's secret tech, you've been cogitating![:p] That's an interesting combo...I guess you use Ulmo for the first 1-2 rounds as ranged threat just prior to GDMA, then move him in for the kill? | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 10:51 AM |
| Or Ulmo as a tile grabber round 1, archer round 2. Depends on what you face.
Right now I'm looking at a BPM, some amount of the new Gold Dwarves (level 8 + 7 from the commander is a +15 morale check). I want to have at least one more pseudo-hitter in the band ... gut reaction is a Dwarf Sam but in reality a Gith Monk is a better option. Two Azers to block. With the Gith and Ulmo you've got some serious speed, good morale, can openers, etc. Both can benefit from the +5 damage from the BPM.
The GDMA is an after-effect at best.
The thing about the band is that it's structure is different. With the DPS LG had an option to build bands out of different sized blocks. the GDS is similar ... it's basically a half hitter (that is near-fearless and has good AC). Compare it to a Minotaur Skelly only with a small base, better AC, better to-hit ... but lacking speed, fearless and undead immunities.
The real question is whether or not the bonus damage is worth it ... I could use a Cleric of Dol Arrah and get actual fearlessness, some healing and some ranged threat capabilities.
Now I don't think this is tier 1 or anything. It's just that someone challenged me to build a good mostly-dwarf band and I'm trying. Should be fun at least. | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 11/17/2005 11:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Now I don't think this is tier 1 or anything. It's just that someone challenged me to build a good mostly-dwarf band and I'm trying. Should be fun at least.
Thanks for sharing. I think your idea for a good dwarf band is structurally intersting and the GDMA might be more than just an afterthought when paired with a piece like Ulmo, which can force your opponnent to come to you. Would be interesting to hear back from you, or others, in the future who actually test the BPM with dwarves and Gith's or Ulmo... | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 4:31 AM |
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Ok, maybe gith monk bands have less of a bad matchup than I thought... [:D]
Am I correct in saying that the YM, gith monk x3, couatl band is the most versatile version? | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 4:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
evil_boy - my point about the LG / LE power bands (quad/quint) is that many of them are VERY specific and only work in a specific configuration. A CE quad is pretty interchangable, but an LE 4 hitter band (even though it has plenty of options) isn't often something that will remain truly competitive if you swap things out into more random configurations. It's a big deal if you drop a duergar and put in a Chraal ... you've got to take the requires-commander into account. An Efreeti is not an aberration and if you use one instead of a Gauth you should consider what your synergies look like, etc. Some configurations are, I think, going to settle out as the better options.
So care to share which options you think are the better ones? Or would that depend on the metagame?
Currently I'm really liking dark naga, 2x duergar champ, helmed horror, gauth, 3x gobbo skirmishers, but not using a chraal seems tantamount to heresy... [:D] | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 8:26 AM |
| I don't think I know what they all are actually.
Dark Naga, Gauth (or x2) is a good start. Those two are an easy pairing. I don't think I'd use Efreeti with multiple Gauths.
For multiple pure-hitters I think the fighting commander options are the Blackguard, Urthok, Rakshasa (basically). Things like 4 Duergar Champs, etc. I probably wouldn't use a Dark Naga with those.
With 3+ Chraals I wouldn't use any commander with less than 65 HP. Just isn't worth the risk in my opinion.
That's all I'm saying. It's easy to say "multiple hitters" but the specific mix I think is important.
I'm curious myself as to how the final mixes fall out.
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ManoVega
Sneak
108 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 12:46 PM |
| Gith Monks are cool, and the auto damage is definitely frightening but their achilles heel is +9 to hit once you burn unavoidable strike. They have effectively put a nail into CE dominance, but the low to hit will balance out against high AC enemies. Helm Horrors and Chraals should go after the Young Master to get the points and erase the potential bonus to hit. I think Helmed Horrors with a Gauth would devastate Gith bands. HH has 95 fearless HPs, immune to stun and crits. and 15 auto damage from the Gauth (maybe paralysis). Here's one I was thinking about that could ruin a monks day (assumes 8 max warband and Speed=2 removed).
4x Helmed Horror
GraveHound
3x Kobold Miners
I like the idea of Urthok with Duergar Champ x5, but aside from lower activations the other problem is that you are hard pressed to get assault points. I'd definitely go with 4x DCs and add in some tile grabbers and 8 activations. | |
Mano Vega | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 8:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ManoVega
Gith Monks are cool, and the auto damage is definitely frightening but their achilles heel is +9 to hit once you burn unavoidable strike. They have effectively put a nail into CE dominance, but the low to hit will balance out against high AC enemies. Helm Horrors and Chraals should go after the Young Master to get the points and erase the potential bonus to hit. I think Helmed Horrors with a Gauth would devastate Gith bands. HH has 95 fearless HPs, immune to stun and crits. and 15 auto damage from the Gauth (maybe paralysis). Here's one I was thinking about that could ruin a monks day (assumes 8 max warband and Speed=2 removed).
4x Helmed Horror
GraveHound
3x Kobold Miners
I like the idea of Urthok with Duergar Champ x5, but aside from lower activations the other problem is that you are hard pressed to get assault points. I'd definitely go with 4x DCs and add in some tile grabbers and 8 activations.
Hmm... maybe I', being influenced gradually by the gith monk lovers who responded to this thread, but I'm beginning to think that they have less of a disadvantage than it seems. I think they work best by using their unavoidable strike to quickly bring down an opponent piece then run away once they are up on points. Also, with YM's CE, their attacks become a pretty decent +13/+13.
Sure, they may not do that much to constructs like the helmed horror, but they can always kill the rest of the warband. Even with a warband that you posted, the monk band may still have a chance to win so long as they kill off the gravehound and miners while you fail to even up the points. Of course that's one of the most extremes of match-ups, an almost fully construct band. But against most regular bands the gith monk will do much better I think.
Ok, now that the gith monk's position in competitive warbands is unchallenged, what about the other pieces/ warbands in the list? Anyone has any comments or feedback?
I think the LE beaters band is good simply because their pieces are so efficient, but what about the death salad, snake kord and marut bands? Do these bands perform well against all comers, or do they have too many bad matchups to warrant a tier 1 status?
Also, does anyone have any other really good bands that deserve to be included into the list? So far I'm seeing that most people think marut, gith monk, LE aberration/hitter and death salad are THE underdark bands to watch out for. Any others? | |
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 11/18/2005 9:28 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by evil_boy
Hmm... maybe I', being influenced gradually by the gith monk lovers who responded to this thread, but I'm beginning to think that they have less of a disadvantage than it seems. I think they work best by using their unavoidable strike to quickly bring down an opponent piece then run away once they are up on points. Also, with YM's CE, their attacks become a pretty decent +13/+13.
The Gith Monks can only use stunning attack once per turn, so they can only make it +13/+9. Still, even having a weak Orc Champion is thrilling for CE, and they do have a much better AC. I agree that the band is a threat. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 11/19/2005 12:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ManoVega
Here's one I was thinking about that could ruin a monks day (assumes 8 max warband and Speed=2 removed).
4x Helmed Horror
GraveHound
3x Kobold Miners
I belived even when speed 2 is removed, you still need a commander for this band.Urthok would be nice.
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"Once I start, I will not flater."
"BLOOD make the grass grow!" | |
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evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 6:03 AM |
| Anyone thinks that the gith monk is worth using without the YM? I like the monk, but without YM around, I keep passing it up for other pieces like JA, slayer, even rikka.
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
I still think the Slayer as part of a mixed LG force is going to win games. It won't be a bloodbath, but the ability to get double points out of something is going to be darn useful.
But 46pts is rather hefty. Most couatl+JA builds can't really afford to upgrade a JA to a slayer without severely changing the core of the band.
For example, from a snake eyes band
2x couatl
3x JA
CoY
2x M@A
or a justice4all band
couatl
4x JA
CoY/CoO
Filler
You cannot sub in a slayer without either dropping the secondary commander, a second JA, or compromising on activations. All of these are non-negligible options. What will be the optimal slayer band then?
quote:
CG wise I think the prospects of Rikka + Wizard Tac are going to show up as common spoilers.
I've heard people say that kord functions better without bringing it over to LG, how true is that? What about for rikka? Does she belong in CG or LG more? I'm thinking that with the higher CR in LG her measely lvl5 is less of a problem, and it'll be easier to pull off waylay (barring ryld or ghaele that is...)
quote:
I personally want to also try out a Hezrou and a messload of Drow Mounted Patrols.
That sounds very fun. About the MDP in general, is it worth using 2 or more in a single band? The CE toolkit lists the quantity to get as 2. I can see a single MDP being used as a popular tech piece, but 2 or more just seems weak. That's 54pts tied to 2 pieces that doesn't hit all that often and, against some opponents, for not much damage. Any thoughts?
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 11/21/2005 4:13 PM |
| | A thing to remember about the whole "no commander" thing, is when the rule changes hit, you'll most likely lose init every time. Losing init sucks big time. And that means your opponent will get his choice of maps frequently as well. It certainly makes Urthok's commander 5 seem a little more valuable, doesn't it? | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 4:20 PM |
| Hows bout:
Orog 71
Duergar Champ 33
Chraal 35
Helmed Horror 45
Orc minion 0
Orc minion 0
Duergar Warrior 4
Fodder 3 x 4 = 12
200 pts, 11 activations, 4 beaters, one cone.
I pulled an HH in Out-of-Box recently and was pretty impressed. Having 95 Fearless hp doesn't suck. | | | |
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Longbow
Warrior
236 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 4:58 PM |
| My 8 activation version of your warband:
Orog Warlord 71
Mountain Orc 0
Orc Warrior 0
Helmed Horror 45
Chraal 35
Duergar Champ 33
2 x Azer Raider 10 (or instead of one Azer = Blue)
2 x Kobold Miner 6
Really solid, IMHO.
I was toying around with a LSD/MSD band, but while that´s very fun I fear it has too many bad matchups (like the above...).
Large Silver Dragon 122
Medium Silver Dragon 52
Cleric of Yondalla 14
Mialee 6 (or 2 x MaA)
2 x Man At Arms 6
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German championship 12.05.07 in Berlin
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Want to play DDM in Berlin, Germany? http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/dndminisberlin/ | |
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wicked cool
Underboss
2122 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 5:41 PM |
| | not too many death slaad bands? whats the best slaads for his commander effect. do u need at least 2 for them to be effective and is it tier 1? | |
The ROCK layeth the smacketh down. Long live Farscape
Vindicated-CHAMPION of the INTELLECT DEVOURER
i will change my avatar when martin completes dances with dragons | |
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 11/21/2005 7:15 PM |
| quote:
not too many death slaad bands? whats the best slaads for his commander effect. do u need at least 2 for them to be effective and is it tier 1?
People NEVER use the slaads cmnder effect lol | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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