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Originally posted by Dagni
Anyway, Gnolaum, I submit Gith Monk + Druid of Obad-Hai + Eberk to the list of Modules.
- Dagni

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

I guess the question is: "Are 4 Helmed Horrors a viable warband choice in the broader tournament scene?"

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Dwarf Artificier - 31 pts (+2 AC, +2 attack)

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Originally posted by Dagni

Yeah, Justice Archons just can't kill even one Helmed Horror. So really the Helmed Horrors with Flight can choose their own targets, which means Couatl(s) first. So they'll be doing 10 dmg per attack all game - good enough to beat, say, Snake Eyes easily enough I would think. Running approximate numbers on a Marut versus 2 Helmed Horrors, with the Helmed Horrors doing 10 damage each, seemed like Helmed Horrors do well enough there. They would have to go for Couatl first, though, so any kind of Marut/Couatl band could be a good game, not sure which side would have an edge. Probably not a significantly bad matchup for Helmed Horrors there, but there might be.

Like I said, not sure if there is an otherwise balanced band that would be great against Helmed Horrors. Ghaele Eladrin would single-handedly beat them, though. Balor would probably manage by himself, as well. And maybe 2 Steel Predators would even be decent against the rest of the field, as well as killing the 4HH band.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by lynchpt

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Originally posted by Dagni

Yeah, Justice Archons just can't kill even one Helmed Horror. So really the Helmed Horrors with Flight can choose their own targets, which means Couatl(s) first. So they'll be doing 10 dmg per attack all game - good enough to beat, say, Snake Eyes easily enough I would think. Running approximate numbers on a Marut versus 2 Helmed Horrors, with the Helmed Horrors doing 10 damage each, seemed like Helmed Horrors do well enough there. They would have to go for Couatl first, though, so any kind of Marut/Couatl band could be a good game, not sure which side would have an edge. Probably not a significantly bad matchup for Helmed Horrors there, but there might be.

Like I said, not sure if there is an otherwise balanced band that would be great against Helmed Horrors. Ghaele Eladrin would single-handedly beat them, though. Balor would probably manage by himself, as well. And maybe 2 Steel Predators would even be decent against the rest of the field, as well as killing the 4HH band.

- Dagni

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Dagni, am I correct to assume you are talking about 4HH when the OOC Speed=2 rule is removed? Your reference to them choosing their own targets makes me think so, because before the removal of that rule, the only way to get a 4HH band that chooses its own targets is to use Snig. I'm pessimistic about Snig's lifespan, though, if he is all that stands between 4HH getting speed =2[:)].

Pat Lynch

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

As I mentioned, we get together every Monday night for DCI tournaments, but I doubt that is what you mean. ;)

I am working with Sam/lalato to hopefully put together the (Central) Florida DDM Open. Thanks to our travelling we are in contact with some strong communities and individual players in Ocala, Tampa, Gainesville, Daytona, Melbourne, and Orlando, and I hope that we can use this big tournament as a way to get a many of the central Florida players together in one place to have a big tournament before the Qualifier season starts. Right now I am shooting for mid-January, but it really depends on what we can get out of the local store who is willing to host such an event.

How does that sound to you?

:)

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Originally posted by lynchpt

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Originally posted by Dagni

Yeah, Justice Archons just can't kill even one Helmed Horror. So really the Helmed Horrors with Flight can choose their own targets, which means Couatl(s) first. So they'll be doing 10 dmg per attack all game - good enough to beat, say, Snake Eyes easily enough I would think. Running approximate numbers on a Marut versus 2 Helmed Horrors, with the Helmed Horrors doing 10 damage each, seemed like Helmed Horrors do well enough there. They would have to go for Couatl first, though, so any kind of Marut/Couatl band could be a good game, not sure which side would have an edge. Probably not a significantly bad matchup for Helmed Horrors there, but there might be.

Like I said, not sure if there is an otherwise balanced band that would be great against Helmed Horrors. Ghaele Eladrin would single-handedly beat them, though. Balor would probably manage by himself, as well. And maybe 2 Steel Predators would even be decent against the rest of the field, as well as killing the 4HH band.

- Dagni

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Dagni, am I correct to assume you are talking about 4HH when the OOC Speed=2 rule is removed? Your reference to them choosing their own targets makes me think so, because before the removal of that rule, the only way to get a 4HH band that chooses its own targets is to use Snig. I'm pessimistic about Snig's lifespan, though, if he is all that stands between 4HH getting speed =2[:)].

Pat Lynch

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Originally posted by Dagni

I think 2 LRD, among other bands, may have a good chance against Monks, not sure. Obviously the Couatl, if played, significantly lowers the damage output of the breath weapons.

Doubt: I don't think killing the Blues and running away is really a viable strategy by itself at all. (Also, rather than 4 Blues, there should be at least one Timber Wolf). The Helmed Horrors merely have to put one Helmed Horror on a victory scoring area, and they've got *3* left to defend all of their own victory areas. At worst, that means sitting one in each spot, but in practice they ought to be able to be within 6 or 12 of several spots, and then swoop in wherever the tile grabber is. To keep their point edge, the Monks would have to get tile points all but one round for the entire game. That's just not gonna happen without the Helmed Horrors getting plenty of attacks.

Finally, my own version of monks tried out what I like to call NNST. Not Necessarily Smart Tech. Yes, I used a Druid of Obad-Hai in place of the fourth Gith or the Couatl. Activation control with Monks seems extremely big to me, and doubly so versus another Monk band. For what it's worth, it also allows you to fit in Eberk (or Aramil, if preferred).

As for reporting how that band's done for me, I have lost with it, 202 to 201, against an dual Aspect of Kord band. The Druid of Obad-Hai helped a lot against a double Marut band I faced, even though that band was already out-activated by a ton. Having 4 more fodder than normal, especially fast fodder, allowed me to constantly throw a Wolf or two in the way of his second Marut, after killing the first one.

Anyway, Gnolaum, I submit Gith Monk + Druid of Obad-Hai + Eberk to the list of Modules.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Gnolaum

2 LRD = lots of elemental damage + Squishy Commander = Squashed Commander = SLOW dragons.

Monks are fast enough to spread out and not allow more than 1 to be caught in any breath, Couatl (the optimal build in my mind) minimizes Elemental damage (5 damage on a save, 15 when failed)

Also 3 Monks and a Couatl can do 105pts of auto damage in a turn.

There are counters to Githzerai, but I don't think the LRD is it.

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

That band would fall down and die vs. other gith monks bands, as well as pretty much every other band in the competitive metagame. If you are running a predominantly gith monk warband you need a Young Master. Thats all there is to it.

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Originally posted by Vrecknidj

Just had a thought.

Young Master
Githzerai Monk x2
Battle Plate Marshal
Gold Dwarf Soldier x2
Tordek
Hill Dwarf (gotta stick with the theme--a T-Wolf is probably better)

What you give up in the third Gith and Couatl is probably too much, I'll admit. But, the BPM means your monks probably will not rout. And, with the DGMA, the GDSs won't be that far behind the monks.

(Admittedly, this doesn't have the oomph or glamour of the triple monk + Couatl bands, but it's something different.)

Dave

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Originally posted by Vrecknidj

Just had a thought.

Young Master
Githzerai Monk x2
Battle Plate Marshal
Gold Dwarf Soldier x2
Tordek
Hill Dwarf (gotta stick with the theme--a T-Wolf is probably better)

What you give up in the third Gith and Couatl is probably too much, I'll admit. But, the BPM means your monks probably will not rout. And, with the DGMA, the GDSs won't be that far behind the monks.

(Admittedly, this doesn't have the oomph or glamour of the triple monk + Couatl bands, but it's something different.)

Dave

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