argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
    
 | | 12/02/2005 6:18 PM |
| Repost:
Map Explorer is a small Java 5 application to show
Line-of-Sight on Maps.
Download here:
http://www.bokeh.de/ddm/mapexplorer/
Currently, the following maps are included:
Fane of the Drow: Fane of Lolth, Mithral Mines, Tomb of Queen Peregrine
Hellspike Prison: Mushroom Cavern, Magma Keep
Drow Outpost (Dragon 337)
I'll add the missing map from Fane next week.
The smoke map from Hellspike Prison will require an extension of the user-interface (blindsight on/off or something like that). Don't know when I'll have time to add that.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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eMpTy Kay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 7:37 PM |
| Thanks for all the work you are doing on this. I am finding it a great help.
I know the smoke map will take a while, but I was wondering when the other map from the Fane would be added.
Thanks again. | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 7:55 PM |
| | This is great. Thanks. I don't know if you're looking for suggestions, but as long as you're expanding on the interface, it would be great if there was a way to pick large and huge creatures and place them. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 6:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
This is great. Thanks. I don't know if you're looking for suggestions, but as long as you're expanding on the interface, it would be great if there was a way to pick large and huge creatures and place them.
Just that I get it right: You want an easy way to see LOS from all 4 (L) or 9 (H) squares simultaneously?
I'll add it to the TO DO list.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 10:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by eMpTy Kay
I know the smoke map will take a while, but I was wondering when the other map from the Fane would be added.
Done: Version 20051205 includes Drow Enclave. Also included: The Lost Temple (Thanks, Jay!).
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/06/2005 6:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
What is the format for the map files? Do you have a spec written?
Not exactly a specification, but I hope it will do:
http://www.bokeh.de/ddm/mapexplorer/mapformat.html
Let me know if you need more info.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/06/2005 10:12 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by argwinkle
Just that I get it right: You want an easy way to see LOS from all 4 (L) or 9 (H) squares simultaneously?
I'll add it to the TO DO list.
- Chris
Yep, that's exactly what I meant. Sorry if I was unclear. It would be a very useful feature for Beholder bands, especially. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 11:54 AM |
| I just uploaded version 20051209.
New features:
- Creature sizes (suggested by DrX)
- Preliminary Smoke support
- Hellspike map added
It still is terribly slow and the graphics haven't improved either.
Source code will likely be released in 15 days [:)]
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 1:26 PM |
| Thanks! I like this program a lot. Now if there was a way to port it to a handheld. It should be possible to run Java on WinCE, right? I would definitely use this at a tournament, if possible.
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HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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ReBell
Skirmisher
17 Posts
| | 12/10/2005 11:38 AM |
| | we've been using it on a laptop and it is a great tool. Thanks for all the hard work. | |
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eMpTy Kay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 12/10/2005 7:57 PM |
| Ilove this and use it as much as I can. In fact I have used it so much I have found a missing wall. On the Magma Keep map, there is a wall between the squares G8-H8 that you don't have on the map explorer map. When you release the next version, can you get that put in?
Thanks for all the updates, this is great work that you are doing! | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 5:41 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by eMpTy Kay
Ilove this and use it as much as I can. In fact I have used it so much I have found a missing wall. On the Magma Keep map, there is a wall between the squares G8-H8 that you don't have on the map explorer map. When you release the next version, can you get that put in?
Thanks for reporting that. I've been notified of some other errors as well, and hope to release an update today, or tomorrow at the latest.
Since the programm seems to get a lot of use, let me note once more that the LOS compuation is currently not exact and may miss an occasional LOS. I don't think that this happens on any of the official maps, but can't prove it doesn't, either. If you think that Map Explorer has missed a LOS on one of the official maps, please drop me an email.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 5:54 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
Thanks! I like this program a lot. Now if there was a way to port it to a handheld. It should be possible to run Java on WinCE, right? I would definitely use this at a tournament, if possible.
That's a tall (or rather tiny) order. Good thing I didn't use tiles, but made the graphics resizable from the start. In principle, Java runs on palmtops, but there are a lot of limitations apart from the screen size (stack space, sometimes no floating-point, for example). I'll soon release the source code - maybe someone will start a porting effort.
Also, we need a faster LOS algorithm before running this on handhelds. Waiting a minute for the LOS computation seems hardly practical.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 11:21 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by argwinkle
quote:
Originally posted by DrX
Thanks! I like this program a lot. Now if there was a way to port it to a handheld. It should be possible to run Java on WinCE, right? I would definitely use this at a tournament, if possible.
That's a tall (or rather tiny) order. Good thing I didn't use tiles, but made the graphics resizable from the start. In principle, Java runs on palmtops, but there are a lot of limitations apart from the screen size (stack space, sometimes no floating-point, for example). I'll soon release the source code - maybe someone will start a porting effort.
Also, we need a faster LOS algorithm before running this on handhelds. Waiting a minute for the LOS computation seems hardly practical.
- Chris
Oh, don't get me wrong -- I didn't think it would be easy. As far as use at a tournament though, a handheld seems a bit more practical than hauling in a laptop. Just musing.
Oh, and if you really wanted to speed up LOS computation, you could just enable a quick spot-to-spot check. Click point 1, maybe right click point two, then have the computer give you a yes/no answer. Maybe draw a line.
Ok, one more suggestion to make your life more complicated. If you wanted this to be really evil useful, you would have it do a reverse calculation - compute all the squares where you would have LOS to a target. Some way to show you where you need to get a creature to in order to hit a target. I don't how you're doing a LOS calculation now, so I don't know how adaptable a modification like this would be.
Feel free to ignore me! [}:)] | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 11:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
Ok, one more suggestion to make your life more complicated. If you wanted this to be really evil useful, you would have it do a reverse calculation - compute all the squares where you would have LOS to a target. Some way to show you where you need to get a creature to in order to hit a target. I don't how you're doing a LOS calculation now, so I don't know how adaptable a modification like this would be.
I was under the impression that LOS is symmetric (ignoring blindsight, invisiblity hide and so on). In other words: just click on the target square, and then place your creature on any of the LOS squares.
Or am I missing somethig important?
quote:
Feel free to ignore me! [}:)]
Not as long as I have LOS to your posts... [)]
Oh, BTW: I just released version 20051212 with some small fixes.
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Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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eMpTy Kay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 7:21 PM |
| | reverse targeting? That would be putting the pointer at the target, then you see where you need to get to. (I have used this to find out where I needed to get my commander to be able to try to rally one of my creatures.) | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 7:39 PM |
| | durr. OK. That all makes logical sense. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/24/2005 7:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by argwinkle
Source code will likely be released in 15 days
Version 20051224 now comes with source code. [:)]
There are no functional changes, so there's no need to download this if you are just interested in running the program. In fact, this new version was almost completely rewritten and should probably tagged as unstable. The only thing that changed is support for multiprocessor systems, and of course I'd be interested if it runs faster there than earlier releases.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 12/24/2005 5:07 PM |
| | Ooh, looks great. I'm a java programmer with some experience in LOS algorithms, so when I get done with another project, I'll see if I can help speed up the LOS any. Not that it really needs it. It's prefectly functional now. | |
Champion of the Rakshasa. Check out my Mini Terrain Maker, or my new Dungeon Map Maker (under development). | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/29/2005 11:21 AM |
| Oh well, I really didn't want to do another update this year, but I just couldn't resist improving things a bit:
Version 20051229 has about 5 times faster LOS calculation than earlier versions. Maybe a reason to upgrade...
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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Kenkos11
Skirmisher
37 Posts
| | 12/29/2005 8:31 PM |
| | Thanks a bunch, I can finally use Lord Soth more effectively on Drow Outpost | |
Self-Professed Eberron Junkie | |
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DrX
Sergeant
408 Posts
| | 12/30/2005 4:42 PM |
| Much faster. Nice. It looks to me like what you're doing differently is performing all the LOS checks first, and then displaying the results. Right?
So, here's a thought. You could really speed things up if you were to perform all the LOS checks for every square, and put that into the map file data. They don't ever change, after all. It'd make for a much bigger map file, but speed-wise all you'd need to do is display the results. If it was me programming this, I'd make a little "map compiler" that does the calculation and appends the results to a readable format in the map file. And other maps can be easily done in the future as they come out.
Just a thought. | |
HW List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DrX
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12409
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 12/31/2005 7:18 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DrX
So, here's a thought. You could really speed things up if you were to perform all the LOS checks for every square, and put that into the map file data. They don't ever change, after all.
Been there, done that. [:)]
In fact, LOS info does change - just consider smoke/fog. Would have to store two versions for this. And I'm sure the future will bring more surprises like that (create wall?). So, after I was reasonably certain that I could make the computation fast enough, I threw out the precomputation stuff. I also use the program for designing new maps, where precompuation doesn't help.
Still, it feels good that someone else had the same idea. Keep 'em coming! | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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eMpTy Kay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 01/04/2006 9:14 PM |
| Discovered errors:
Tomb Of Queens Peregrine:
Should not be a Wall between I27 and I28.
Wall missing between O21 and O22.
Love the faster speed! Thanks much! | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 01/04/2006 9:50 PM |
| I'm sure it would be difficult to program, but another nice feature would be one to allow you to see how first turn fireballs (and such) can take place.
Hordlings posted nice maps of the Fane of the Lolth that do this. the idea is the punch in a move of 6, and then show every square that "could" be seen by a figure. (i.e. computed based on every square he could start from, and get to).
The modification would then be needed to change the movement 4, 6, 8, 12 (soth moving, soth moving plus a beholder slide, IM GMA + Pyro's move, etc.). Depending on what your planning against, you'll want to see standard actions versus extreme actions...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 01/05/2006 4:50 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by eMpTy Kay
Discovered errors:
Tomb Of Queens Peregrine:
Should not be a Wall between I27 and I28.
Wall missing between O21 and O22.
Right. Thanks for noting this. Will be fixed in the next update. | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 01/05/2006 4:58 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
I'm sure it would be difficult to program, but another nice feature would be one to allow you to see how first turn fireballs (and such) can take place.
Might it be possible that this is related to the WF map design contest? 'cause I'm just klicking away on a new map trying to make sure that no speed 6 first-turners are possible [)]
The hard part is computing possible movement ranges (easy enough for medium sized creatures, harder when considering every possible case).
I haven't event started with that, but it'll probably be the next "big" feature.
- Chris | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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alepulp
Underboss
1537 Posts
Manchester, England
| | 01/05/2006 8:23 AM |
| Incredible work there - invaluable for strategic work!
Are you coming to the European Championships in April? | |
One of these days WoTC will update their tournament page when I'm in the top 5... they never seem to do when I'm in that bracket :(
My Collection My DDM Website And My Trade Refs Be a part of the UK DDM Forum
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 01/05/2006 9:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by alepulp
Incredible work there - invaluable for strategic work!
Thanks - I'm always open to flattery [)]
quote:
Are you coming to the European Championships in April?
I'd love to, but it's extremely unlikely. I've neither got the time, nor the skirmish skills to make this worthwile (working on the latter, though). | |
Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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argwinkle
Sneak
94 Posts
| | 01/05/2006 9:08 AM |
| New version 20060105 released.
You can now change the map colors by editing a properties file.
Also includes some fixes to the Tomb of Queen Peregrine Map (thanks eMpTy Kay!)
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Map Explorer - Uniques gallery | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 01/05/2006 1:55 PM |
| quote:
The hard part is computing possible movement ranges (easy enough for medium sized creatures, harder when considering every possible case).
I haven't event started with that, but it'll probably be the next "big" feature.
Well, from my memory there is only 1 large based creature (not so ure about the epic's now that I think about it) with a first turn bomb, and that is the Marut.
In every case however, a large figure will be able to move FEWER squares than a medium. So if you know what kind of damage a medium creatures fireball can hit, you still are seeing the worst case scenario for first turn bomb's....
Thanks for your hard work!
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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