jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
    
 | | 12/04/2005 9:54 PM |
| Ok, First you pick a set. Then you pick what you think is the BEST rare for skirmish's and then the WROST rare you think is for skirmish's from the set you picked.
Example:
Set: Deathkell
Best: Beholder
(if you want add why!) I think the beholder is a powerful mini.
Worst: Fiendish Monstrous Scorpion
God ouch, for 2 more points grab a griffin. i dont like this mini at all. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Istari
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:01 PM |
| Underdark
(for skirmish)
BEST
Helmed Horror- possibly one of the most cost effective beaters/damage soaks in the game that is very difficult to tech against.
Surprisingly great stats all around.
not many weaknesses.
WORST
(i sort of like them all but if i were to pick worst I guess the Balor because my expectations were crushed. its more personal as balor isn't bad just not good) | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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dndplaya4eva
Sneak
96 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 10:44 PM |
| Angelfire:
Best:
Archmage
Reason: It's really to go up against one. Mordekainen Swords can really kill your big hitters. Unlimited EPMM make the Couatl useless.
Worst:
Orc Wolf Shaman
Reason: Cool CE has a beast master that can control Dire Bear. Yippee...or not. The Orc Wolf Shaman's lightning is effective but with the high saves it makes it pretty useless. For an orc, one attack for 15 non magic is pathetic. AC 11 is also pretty embarrassing, | |
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slayer1
Sergeant
597 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:08 PM |
| Chris, I would have to argue that the Paladin of Torm is a little better than the Human Cleric of Bane. Ok, time for my nominees.
Giants of Legend
Best: Drider Sorceror-Duh, the only mini banned from tournament play so far.
Worst: Otyugh-Completely useless in skirmish | |
Har 25/80 De 35/60 Ar 43/60 GoL 61/72 Ab 42/60 Dk 43/60 Af 51/60 Ud 49/60 WD 50/60 | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/04/2005 11:49 PM |
| Edit: I don't follow instructions very well. Eh, I guess this will be best and worst figure then. Bastard. [:p]
Harbinger:
Best Figure: Orc Warrior. The best and most frequent common in the game.
Worst Figure: Elf Archer. Do you really even need to ask.
Dragoneye:
Best Figure: Large Red Dragon. While not consistently tier 1, it set the baseline for what effective dragon miniatures should be able to do.
Worst Figure: Druid of Obad-hai. May very well be the worst miniature in the game, simply because of cost.
Archfiends:
Best Figure: Large Silver Dragon. Another baseline Dragon, which still exists as the focal point of a benchmark band. Your band needs to be able to deal with large silver dragons in order to be able to survive in a major tournament.
Worst Figure: Human Cleric of Bane. A giant, expensive waste of points.
Giants of Legend
Best Figure: Inspiring Marshal. Another meta-game defining piece, he is the first choice for Chaotic Good commanders. I am leaving out the Drider because it was banned.
Worst Figure: Stone Golem. Way too glaring of a weakness for such an expensive figure.
Aberrations
Best Figure: Frenzied Berserker. The most frequently played and feared figure in the Chaotic Good beater arsenal.
Worst Figure: Flesh Golem. Like the Clay Golem only a whole lot worse.
Deathknell
Best Figure: Couatl. Another faction defining commander, its tough to build a warband without including this piece.
Worst Figure: Spellstiched Hobgoblin Zombie. An 11 point speed 2 figure.
Angelfire
Best Figure: Chraal. Look at the Top 8 in Nationals. Yes. Exactly.
Worst Figure: The Phoelarch. Another case of not enough for wayyy too many points. And its a rare.
Underdark
Best Figure: Githzerai Monk. This will be another benchmark figure, like the Large Silver Dragon.
Worst Figure: Roper. A 74 point wandering monster. | |
I am not gone. | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10359 Posts
United States
| | 12/05/2005 9:40 AM |
| Best and worst Rares eh?
Harbinger
Best: Human Blackguard (runner up: Drow Cleric of Lolth)
Worst: Vadania
Dragoneye
Best: Large Red Dragon (runners up: Eye of Gruumsh, Ogre Ravager)
Worst: Carrion Crawler (runner up: Bright Naga)
Archfiends
Best: Large Silver Dragon (runners up: Orc Champion, Gauth)
Worst: Human Cleric of Bane
Giants of Legend
Best: Inspiring Marshal (runners up: Lord Soth, Lich Necromancer)
Worst: Stone Golem
Aberrations
Best: Frenzied Berserker (runners up: Ryld, Crow Shaman)
Worst: Flesh Golem (runners up: Ogre Zombie, Ice Troll)
Deathknell
Best: Couatl (runner up: Beholder)
Worst: tie between Warpriest of Hextor and Ravenous Vampire (runners up: Ambush Drake, Mummy Lord, Fiendish Monstrous Scorpion)--this wasn't a good set for top notch rares.
Angelfire
Best: Archmage (runner up: Ulmo)
Worst: Ogre Mage (runner up: Phoelarch)
Underdark
Best: Elminster (runners up: Aspect of Kord, Helmed Horror)
Worst: Gray Render (runner up: Roper)
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 11:44 AM |
| Dragoneye:
Best:
Large Red Dragon: There's probably others that are equally valuable, but the coolness factor just puts this guy over the top
Worst:
Carrion Crawler: This is easily the WORST skirmish mini yet created. There are lots of minis out there that are overcosted, where you could say that if they were only X points less, they would be usable. However, X is usually far less than half their cost. For the Carrion Crawler, you could cut its cost in half, and it would still be a waste of points. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
Have/Want List
Reference thread
Avatar Thread
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 11:56 AM |
| Giants of Legends:
Best - Inspiring Marshall. A very nice skirmish piece when the going gets tough.
Worst - Manticore. A reason? Are you blind? | |
My Trading Thread | |
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General_Boy
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 1:19 PM |
| Harbinger
Best: Elf Pyromancer (runner-up: Blackguard)
Worst: Vadania
Dragoneye
Best: Ogre Ravager (runners-up: Eye, Large Red)
Worst: Carrion Crawler
Archfiends
Best: Orc Champion (runners-up: LSD, Gauth)
Worst: Ochre Jelly
GoL
Best: Inspiring Marshal (I want to say Lich but I think the IM edges him out)
Worst: Manticore
Aberrations
Best: Ryld
Worst: Gibbering Mouther (runners-up: Flesh Golem, Mantis, Skullspliter)
Deathknell
Best: Couatl (runner-up: Beholder)
Worst: A lot of the rares are tied for worst
Angelfire
Best: Archmage
Worst: Phoelarch (ruuners-up: LCD, Chain Devil, Ogre Mage, Orc Wolf)
Underdark
Best: Helmed Horror
Worst: Roper (runner-up: Half-Fiend Ogre)
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 1:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by General_Boy
Harbinger
Best: Elf Pyromancer (runner-up: Blackguard)
Worst: Vadania
Dragoneye
Best: Ogre Ravager (runners-up: Eye, Large Red)
Worst: Carrion Crawler
Archfiends
Best: Orc Champion (runners-up: LSD, Gauth)
Worst: Ochre Jelly
GoL
Best: Inspiring Marshal (I want to say Lich but I think the IM edges him out)
Worst: Manticore
Aberrations
Best: Ryld
Worst: Gibbering Mouther (runners-up: Flesh Golem, Mantis, Skullspliter)
Deathknell
Best: Couatl (runner-up: Beholder)
Worst: A lot of the rares are tied for worst
Angelfire
Best: Archmage
Worst: Phoelarch (ruuners-up: LCD, Chain Devil, Ogre Mage, Orc Wolf)
Underdark
Best: Helmed Horror
Worst: Roper (runner-up: Half-Fiend Ogre)
What are these based on? Not skirmish usefulness? | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 1:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
Best: Elminster (runners up: Aspect of Kord, Helmed Horror)
Worst: Gray Render (runner up: Roper)
I think there are much better rares in the set than Elminster and a lot of worse rares in the set then the Grey Render. Mind sharing how you came to those particular conclusions?
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I am not gone. | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
239 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 2:14 PM |
| | Grey Render is far from the worst rare in Underdark. | |
Champion of Zarak - Evil Half-Orc Assassin | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 2:52 PM |
| | I think underdark is a very good set for rares, but i think Dromite Wilder makes the Gray Render look great. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 3:02 PM |
| | I would pick the Dromite Wilder over the Roper any day, somply because you might actually be able to use the Wilder. The Roper is a crap-shoot. He might be useful. If you get lucky. | |
I am not gone. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 3:36 PM |
| I would rate the render as "quite good" at least for sealed. Disadvantage or no, you don't complain about getting a 125 hp beater in sealed. :)
Sticking to the rares:
Harbinger
Worst: Shambling Mound
Best: Human Blackguard
Dragoneye
Worst: Hard choice, lot of bad ones - the difficult 20s, the silver sorcerer, the lion falcon monk - I'm going with the monk due to the total cost screw of fearless + independent with the new rules on the way.
Best: Eye of Gruumsh, edging out the LRD and Ravager
Archfiends
Worst: Human Cleric of Bane (so bad it is banned in our reverse constructed format)
Best: Orc Champion (edges out the LSD to me simply based on seeing more play)
Giants of Legend (excluding huges)
Worst: Stone Golem (edges out the Otyugh)
Best: Inspiring Marshal (RIP Drider Sorcerer)
Aberrations
Worst: Fiendish Giant Praying Mantis (1-2 punch of incited plus slow as hell - I'd rather play the flesh golem which can at least block for you)
Best: Frenzied Berserker
Deathknell
Worst: Mummy Lord (this was a tough pick though, lots of bad pieces)
Best: Couatl (Honorable mention: Goliath, Greenfang)
Angelfire
Worst: Large Copper Dragon (hon. mention Phoelarch, Red Slaad)
Best: Archmage (for impact on sealed and epic - in constructed Efreeti will be more important piece going forward, I believe)
Underdark
Worst: Roper (one of those pieces that is so bad it makes you think "I HAVE to find a way to use this")
Best: jury is still out! | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 3:48 PM |
| Set: Aberrations
Best Rare: Frenzied Berserker. An excellent heavy-hitter, as well as being one of the most well-balanced units WotC has made.
Worst Rare: Ogre Zombie. This piece should've never been made. Being too slow for its faction, as well as being Inhibited, doesn't even make the OZ worth 10 points. | |
Check out my DDM Blog: http://scifirules.livejournal.com
"I will pay my dues when you send me my tusks!" -Strong Bad
Champion of Chainmail Equivalencies | Knight of Efficient Fodder
WotDQ Called Shot: Large Green Dragon (VINDICATED) | Blood War Called Shot: Large Brass Dragon | Unhallowed Called Shot: Skeletal Troll
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General_Boy
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 4:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
What are these based on? Not skirmish usefulness?
They are based on a combination of things. Some skirmish usefulness. Some personal RPG campaign usefulness. And a lot of personal bias.
Out of curiousity, what did you find odd about the list? Ryld over FB? Ochre Jelly over the the sad Human Cleric? | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 5:14 PM |
| If price were the only consideration, and Zenakos price lists were used, then the following would result:
Harbinger
Worst: Shamling Mound
Best: Displacer Beast
Dragoneye
Worst: Lion Falcon Monk
Best: Large Red Dragon
Archfiends
Worst: Paladin of Torn
Best: Drizzt (followed shortly by Large Silver Dragon)
Giants of Legend
Worst: Warchanter
Best: Huge Red Dragon
Aberrations
Worst: Skullsplitter
Best: Green Dragon
Deathknell
Worst: Valorus Prince
Best: Beholder
Angelfire
Worst: Ulmo Lightbringer
Best: Large Copper Dragon
Yes I was surprised by the best/worst of Angelfire also. | |
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Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 5:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I would rate the render as "quite good" at least for sealed. Disadvantage or no, you don't complain about getting a 125 hp beater in sealed. :)
Unless your opponent kills him before he gets to make an attack roll...[)]
quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
Angelfire
Worst: Ulmo Lightbringer
Best: Large Copper Dragon
Yes I was surprised by the best/worst of Angelfire also.
What's surprising about that? Highest priced figure is a large dragon (and arguably the best looking figure in the game), and the lowest priced is a small unique with a blech paintjob. Seems right to me. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
854 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 6:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
What's surprising about that? Highest priced figure is a large dragon (and arguably the best looking figure in the game), and the lowest priced is a small unique with a blech paintjob. Seems right to me.
I suppose my surprise comes from the fact that I mostly use minis for skirmish (just branching into RPG now). I sully expected Phoelarch to take the worst spot, and I don't know what I expected to take best spot, but it wasn't the stat terrible Dragon. | |
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Use quick search to see scans of every stat card! | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 12/05/2005 6:18 PM |
| Giants of Legend
are we counting best rares and best rare giants?
Best Rare-Inspiring Marshall-tied with Soth(IMO)
Best Rare Giant-Storm Giant
Worst-Otyguh(maticore biting his tentacles) | |
Champion of Troglodytes!
Guy Who Cant Get Anything Exact
(called uncommon displacer beast for Unhallowed
Squire of Runic Guardian, gets shield Guardian) | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 6:28 PM |
| quote:
Unless your opponent kills him before he gets to make an attack roll...
Well, yes. [)] The day before I did pull off the opposite feat, sort of, as my render more or less took out a Marut solo that only got one swing off. I think it is solidly in the top half of rares for sealed, anyway.
Constructed is another animal, and probably a topic for another thread. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 12/05/2005 7:22 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Well, yes. [)] The day before I did pull off the opposite feat, sort of, as my render more or less took out a Marut solo that only got one swing off. I think it is solidly in the top half of rares for sealed, anyway.
Yes, even after his disappointing performance, I'm inclined to agree. While hindsight tells me I definitely should have chosen the Dark Naga over him, the Render's untimely demise was at least partially a result of some mistakes on my part. Can't blame him for that! | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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