| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
    
 | | 12/08/2005 4:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I don't think Snake Eyes is Tier 1 anymore. It suffers as much as the ravager does from the prevelance of high ACs now, and by itself a single githzerai monk can easily kill a justice archon. I still think the Justice Archon is a great support hitter, but it can no longer maintain the weight of a warband like it did back in Angelfire.
But I think that mobile platform of 3xJA and 2xCouatl can easily get to and kill the Young Master. And once that's done, sure, you might lose 2 JAs in the process to Gith Monks, but with the Couatls and their auto damage sonic orbs, I don't think it is a terrible matchup against the commanderless Gith Monks.
Of course, you and Derry did run Snake Eyes at Nationals, so you and he would obviously have more experience. But it just doesn't seem like such a bad matchup to me at first glance. | |
Champion of Neogi
Completed Trades/Transactions: sttmxn, Krush, jgsugden, Ayrychx2, Venport, Tysac
| |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/08/2005 4:37 PM |
| Its not just the G.A.S. though, either (and I am thinking more the triple monk + Couatl version anyway.) I mean it already had alot of problems with things like LSD + CoDA (which I think is even more viable now.) Things like the Duergar Champion and Helmed Horror just further cement the nail in what I think is its grave...
Granted, I haven't played Snake Eyes since Gen Con, so its possible that I am wrong, but I am not optimistic about the situation. | |
I am not gone. | |
|
Puggins
Sergeant
622 Posts
| | 12/08/2005 4:42 PM |
| How about the good ol' fashioned LSD?
1) It has 150hp, making it immune to an instakill from a GMx4 band.
2) Excellent Morale save
3) Its paralysis breath has a 60% chance of paralyzing each Monk, and a 40% chance to take out the master.
4) Its Cold breath will cause a morale check on any non-Couatl build on a failed save.
5) Its AC is high enough to make the Monks hard-pressed to fight it post-Strike.
I think the presence of the LSD will make any non-Couatl build of GAS very vulnerable, and the Couatl build is still going to have to figure out a way to top it. I wonder if it makes sense to throw Nebin (via Regdar) in for blur on the Dragon, or if that merely creates easy targets of opportunity. | |
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
|
Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 12/08/2005 6:38 PM |
| @Puggins
If you are running GMx4 vs LSD I think you have a good chance of winning. If they do auto 120 damage then they only need 3 more hits to kill the dragon. Unless the LSD also has a CoDA it isn't too hard for four monks to hit at least three more times before they all get killed by the LSD. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
| 
Bert the Troll
Commander
3898 Posts
Adelaide
| | 12/08/2005 6:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zyla
If your going with a breath attack the LDD is where its at. 25 damage to the Gith Monks and a Couatl wont protect them. You could even get 2 LDD for the price of 1 LSD, as well as give a drow hitter +6 AB to help hit the 25 AC.
I dont think the LDD power of the drow would stack. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
|
Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 12/08/2005 7:21 PM |
| | An SA never stacks with itself, IIRC. | | | |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 12/08/2005 7:51 PM |
| How about this variant using the IM & FB:
Inspiring Marshal 29 [GMA]
War Chanter 30 [Improved Countersong; Followers gain +4 saves]
Frenzied Berserker 52 [the usual]
Aspect of Kord 65 [+18 att(30 magic); 90hp; AC=19; speed 10; melee reach 2]
Greycloak & Wolf 15 [out activate; tile grabber; ranged attacks]
x3 Xeph Warrior
Use Kord (faster than FB) and FB as a 3 square wide wall and keep War Chanter very close by to use Improved Countersong - enemy creatures within 6 squares cannot be put under command (no YM CFX!!!, no bonus to MC's). Guard group with Xeph's (Speed 8).
Blade Singer CFX = +4 saves. This should help versus Stunning attacks for Kord & FB. Plus MC's are +7 (therefore Kord is +17, good odds).
Kords higher AC & Monks not under command will have hard time hitting Kord.
One wack from Kord with good chance to hit and Gith Monk needs MC.
Use Blade Singers Cure Light to heal Kord or FB as needed, or his Tasha's to try and Stun YM.
Cheers. | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 12/08/2005 8:20 PM |
| Another spoiler band:
Half Fiend Ogre x3
Orc Druid x2
Troglodyte x3
Really poor saves on the HFOs probably dooms it against most stuff, but it has some good points against monks.
- 3 AE spells that can soften the monks up a little
- a HFO flanking with a monk hits on a 7 for 30 damage
- fly speed of 7 makes them rather maneuverable for a large base fig
- there are just a few too many targets for the monk swarm to shut everything down
Of course you'd be insane to show up to a tournament with this.[:p] | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Balrog
Sneak
169 Posts
| | 12/08/2005 8:27 PM |
| | i think archmage could have potential, the key to remeber is that archmage outactivated these bands easily, has a better commander (IM) an dcan afford to just choke up the ground with fodder and balst away at the commanders and offending monks. this is a major reason that i feel G.A.S without couatl is not the best build, if YM goes down early off of a fireball or archmage any spellcaster will pick your speed 2 monks to peices. with couatl you have the resistances, snakes swiftness, and a backup commander that can keep your monks going. archmgae cna choke the ground with fille rthat the monks cant get through and hole up in a corner with the mage and just magic missle you to death, if a monk comes in to tak out filler mage drops the swords and dimesion doors out quick, and those 2 monks are essentially done. archmage si difficult to play but it can definitely beat monks. anything else that focuses ona big piece like artemis, lsd, or lrd may have trouble with the monks (do to lack of filler and mobility). archmage has tons of filler and activations, a gran move action, and one of the best autodamage sources out there.r | |
I <3 Orcs.... what does that say about me?
Champion of Raistlin Majere with Epic card
| |
|
Kissmykiester
Sergeant
525 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 12:24 AM |
| I think the 'first strike' capability mentioned by others in earlier posts seems the best way to go.
The idea of 3 FB x3, an IM and Devis sounds good to me. Might even prove to be formidable against other warbands.
You might wanna take out an FB and slot in the Cleric of Kord(extremely squishy; play with care). That + 4 to hit against Lawful would greatly aid the FBs to hit that 25AC. You lose sheer damage output but you stand a greater chance of hitting them.
Has anyone tried the Lich + 2 death sluts (ahem) I mean Slaads against the Monks yet? On the right map...I could see those monks rolling for MC before round 2. | |
Vassal Tournament Constructed Group#
1 & 2-Champion
"You are, what you do, when it counts".
-------------------------
Sucessful Trade - Pan(2), Lexander (2) Trilistria (1) | |
|
Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 7:35 AM |
| | I tried 2 Slaads and a Clay Golem VS YM and 3 Giths. I think it was the oddest game I've ever played, neither of us could roll above about a 5. So I don't think any lessons could be learned from it ;) | |
| |
|
Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 7:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by One_Wing
This seems crazy, but Half-orc paladin with a few iron golems could have some potential. This is because AOOs will force the monks to take a morale save. Add some other things to protect the pally as well. This is best on mythril mines when two iron golems can quickly block off several corridors.
Astonishingly brave however, you have to be 100% sure that there is no way to get at the HOP though.. and the monks even if they don't get their crit damage or stuns, still get the +10 damage on a stunning attack (YM), even if the stun won't work. | |
| |
|
rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 9:36 AM |
| The Archmage is looking like a dead end to me.
I tried a playtest against YM, Couatl, Gith Monk x3. Disclaimer: I played against myself, so that's often not a good gague.
Anyway, I thought the Archmage was still a weak matchup, so I played on Drow Outpost, and gave the Archmage band the more protected (right) side. I let the Archmage band win all initiatives, and ignored any criticals that the GAS band rolled (kept the auto-crit, of course). I used 2 bridge blockers (Peg and Griffon), and let them get to the bridge first. When the first monk rolled up on the Archmage, I gave him 1 free pass (assumed the conceal missed on the AoO as he moved away).
And the Monks devastated the Archmage band.
The AC's and stun saves of the creatures that can be included with the Archmage are just too low to reliably protect against the monks. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
Have/Want List
Reference thread
Avatar Thread
| |
|
Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 12/09/2005 11:20 AM |
| @kissmykeister
Replacing a third FB with a Cleric of Kord is a very bad idea. I'd rather get another +14/+9 attack than a +4 to a few rolls. Not to mention another fearless piece and another deathstrike and another aura of fear.
@Balrog
I agree with Rhane - the Archmage stands no chance against monks. They don't have enough filler to block off three monks from moving 20 spaces and basing the mage. If the Mage pulls away he risks a stun.
@IanB
The Half Fiend Ogre has little chance of staying unstunned after his initial attack. I wouldn't use him either.
@Sirohk
Your idea sounds good on paper but you are assuming the monks don't go after the warchanter. If you include the warchanter the monks just found an easier more important target. The warchanter won't survive the initial contact round. The IM/FB/AoK is a good idea because they can all bring a monk to MC in one swing with a good chance to hit. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
| DDM Constructed Champion 2006
derry
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 1:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I don't think Snake Eyes is Tier 1 anymore. It suffers as much as the ravager does from the prevelance of high ACs now, and by itself a single githzerai monk can easily kill a justice archon. I still think the Justice Archon is a great support hitter, but it can no longer maintain the weight of a warband like it did back in Angelfire.
I concur that Snake Eyes was a warband for one release only. A variant with the Justicator (or other variants) is much more capable in the current metagame. But, I would be suprised to see straight Snake Eyes ever win a major tournament again (and definitely not the next California DDM Open.)
Snake Eyes main weaknesses are not theoretical anymore. A high AC medium damage target make the JA have very low yield. Gold Dwarf Soliders, Druegar Champions, Death Slaad, and others fit this category, and see play in the current metagame. The Dark Naga with Gauth(s) are also too much for the JA to handle. The less Triple Chraal and Quad CE Heavy Hitter warbands are played, the less Snake Eyes can exploit them to win. | |
Member of the Low Post Count but High Post Content Society | |
|
Pauper
Sergeant
508 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 9:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sharn Inquisitor
quote:
Originally posted by Fearfrost
IIRC Marut is spell resist all so no buffing[:(]
Read Spell Resistance in the Ab Rulebook, spell resistance may be ignored by the creature who has it.
Actually, Sharn, you should read 'Spell Resistance All' in the Aberrations rulebook - it's not the same ability as 'Spell Resistance'.
For ease of confirmation, I'll quote it here:
quote:
From the online DDM glossary:
"Spell Resistance All: This creature is never affected by a spell that allows a Spell Resistance roll, and it can't choose not to resist such a spell."
--
Pauper | |
Champion of the War Wizard of Cormyr | |
|
Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/09/2005 11:02 PM |
| standard marut (non-epic) doesnt have spell resistance all.
HOP, Marut and IG might be viable.. about the same issues as the LSD - basically you need to forgo fodder and activations and use more tech to keep your stuff alive and swinging (Standard bearer, Lantern Bearer and/or Healer) (yes - the LB has no use against monks.. but I worry about Duergar too)
For the Archmage - use Hellspike and abuse his Blindsight to cast thru the smoke while you are setting up. Then Teleport in behind his lines, swords the YM and run like hell back to your "bunker". | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
| |
|
Frostbyte
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 12/10/2005 12:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
I wonder how 4HH does against the rest of the field though.
I haven't played it (too many duplicate rares for me to ever bother getting) but it seems like it wouldn't face up well against anything that can put out significant damage. High damage creatures aren't as prevalent now as they once were, but now that JA's are fading a little bit (not entirely- I think people are overstating things a little here) the Frenzied Berserker and Red Samurais will probably be played more.
Red Samurais are still unpleasant in a lot of matchups, and are probably a counter to the Helmed Horror. I'm not entirely sure if +9 is good enough for the second attack in this metagame, but it's close. | |
| |
|
Sirohk
Commander
3844 Posts
USA
| | 12/10/2005 4:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
@kissmykeister
Replacing a third FB with a Cleric of Kord is a very bad idea. I'd rather get another +14/+9 attack than a +4 to a few rolls. Not to mention another fearless piece and another deathstrike and another aura of fear.
@Balrog
I agree with Rhane - the Archmage stands no chance against monks. They don't have enough filler to block off three monks from moving 20 spaces and basing the mage. If the Mage pulls away he risks a stun.
@IanB
The Half Fiend Ogre has little chance of staying unstunned after his initial attack. I wouldn't use him either.
@Sirohk
Your idea sounds good on paper but you are assuming the monks don't go after the warchanter. If you include the warchanter the monks just found an easier more important target. The warchanter won't survive the initial contact round. The IM/FB/AoK is a good idea because they can all bring a monk to MC in one swing with a good chance to hit.
Thanks for the input.
I would hope that with IM's GMA that Kord & FB could set up a WALL in front of the War Chanter so that the monks could not get to it. This will be tricky to do, maybe somewhat easier on the Drow Outpost. If they do manage to spend their time going after the War Chanter, then that will give Kord and FB even an extra round to land some hits and take out monks or at least maybe force some MC's. I'll have to practice with this warband and let you know how it fairs.
Otherwise, I very much agree with your analysis.
Cheers.
Sirohk | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 12/10/2005 6:48 PM |
| Along the lines of trying out "no commander"... what about?
quote:
Medium Silver Dragon
#10/60; LG; Underdark; Rare; 52 pts
Lvl 10; Spd F7; AC 19; HP 85
Melee Attack: +11/+8/+8 (10/5/5)
Type: Dragon
Special Abilities:
- Breath Weapon [] (Replaces attacks; cone; 20 cold damage; DC 17)
- Breath Weapon [] (Replaces attacks; cone; paralysis; DC 17)
- Double Damage from Fire
- Immune Acid, Cold
- Morale Booster (your warband gets morale save +2)
quote:
Large Silver Dragon
#5/60; Archfiends; Rare; LG; 122 points
LVL 16; SPD F9; AC 24; HP 150
Melee Attack: +17/+12/+12 (15/10/10)
Ranged Attack: -
Type: Large Dragon
Special Abilities: Breath Weapon [] (Replaces attacks: cone; 35 cold damage; DC 21); Breath Weapon [] (Replaces Attacks: Cone; Paralysis; DC 21); Flight; Immune Acid, Cold; Vulnerable Fire.
With +2 from the MSD, the LSD only routes on a 1...
So the monks would have to go after the MSD first I'd think.
quote:
Large Silver Dragon LG 122
Medium Silver Dragon LG 52
Azer Raider LG/LE 5
Azer Raider LG/LE 5
Timber Wolf ANY 5
Timber Wolf ANY 5
Man-at-Arms LG 3
Man-at-Arms LG 3
The Timber Wolves don't need to be under command either, and free up the dragons from needing to grab assault points.
You'd get 4 breath weapons, and the MSD has a bigger threat range than the Gith.
Vs a Chraal band or the like you do have the hitting power to try for a commander assassination because the Dragons don't go down easily to the Chraals either.
You could also swap in Mialee for Magic Weapon.
The MSD and LSD can paralyze or route the YM, as well as some of the monks.
A standard bearer would also fit into this band with some shifting about. (Men at Arms and a HDW instead of higher cost screeners)
| |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/10/2005 6:58 PM |
| Several days ago someone asked what the spoiler band someone played that beat Duergar/HH, Monks and Triple Slaad - heres the answer
Marut, Couatl, CoDA, Dwarf Artificer, Mialee, fodder.
It was solid and caused problems for everyone. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
| |
|
kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 1:29 AM |
| A Marut/Couatl/CoDA band beat Death Slaadx3?
That sounds off. I've beaten every Marut band I've faced with Death Slaadx2 and a Red Sam. The Marut can't be healed, and the Slaads 3 AoE spells can't be stopped by the Couatl. The Slaads are also immune to 1/3rd the damage output by the Marut and the Couatl's only damaging spell. The CoDA means the Marut prolly has initiative, and he has a 45% chance of banishing one of the Slaads.
What were the skill levels of the players involved?? | |
| |
|
evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 3:22 AM |
| | Agreed. The worst matchup ever for a marut band is the triple slaad one. How the heck did that player pull off the win? | |
| |
|
Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 6:10 AM |
| | Yeah, I've played against a Marut twice with Dual Slaads. Goes down like a sack of potatoes. | |
| |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 8:35 AM |
| | Now, don't get me wrong, I have no doubt that the death slaads can be problematic for a Marut, but when you guys were playing against it, did you have any problems getting through the Marut's spell resistance? | |
I am not gone. | |
|
evil_boy
Sneak
157 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 9:45 AM |
| The chaos hammers were mainly used to weaken the rest of the band, but were not really missed even if marut's spell resistance stops them or the opponent keeps everyone else far away from the marut to avoid being caught in the blast. With 3 spells, you can either use terrain to avoid targetting the marut, or just go for it anyway and maybe do some damage to the construct.
3 death slaads just mean a whole lot of pain for the marut. Even without the chaos hammers, they just ganged up and beat down the marut. You only need 5 hits to drop it, and the rest of the marut band usually isn't a problem, with them consisting of couatls, JAs that can't hit sh!t, and fodder or buffers.
Even if you manage to hit with the marut, and snake's swiftness for 40 damage on a slaad, it's not difficult to pass the MC. And even if it fails, it'll likely rally again, and there's 2 other buddies waiting for you. And when it rallies and gets back into the fray, it's hp is pretty ok again thanks to regeneration.
I've had the misfortune of playing against a slaad band with a marut, and it is just painful. | |
| |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 12/11/2005 10:08 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
If you are running GMx4 vs LSD I think you have a good chance of winning. If they do auto 120 damage then they only need 3 more hits to kill the dragon. Unless the LSD also has a CoDA it isn't too hard for four monks to hit at least three more times before they all get killed by the LSD.
Everything will then turn on what ele the LSD band has in it (probably nothing that can handle the YM, sadly for the LSD player). Four GMs is 136 victory points, one LSD is 122. If (and it's a really big "if") the LSD player can manage to keep his other pieces alive, and stay within 10 points on assault points, the LSD player will pull it out.
But, my guess is that the remaining YM and other 20-points of pieces will be able to handle whatever the LSD brought with it.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
NightMoor
Sergeant
448 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 11:14 AM |
| The LSD is a terrible candidate against a Gith Monk band. The thing people need to realize is that Gith Monks *looooove* facing bands with a single, expensive figure as its core. They are pretty much tailor-made to destroy bands like that. An LSD is a beautiful sight for a Monk player, because it's a 122 pt piece that you can pretty much guarantee will die (120 dmg for free before the real fighting starts).
The Marut is a terrible choice for the same reasons. Sure, he's a construct, but his life is so low that four 20-dmg hits will still kill him instantly. Fat lotta good that high AC will do then. And that band someone mentioned (Marut, Couatl, random garbage else) literally has nothing to fight back with should the Marut die.
The trick against Gith Monks is to use things that can't, in some combination, be critted, stunned, or cost too much when they die. Throw in some combination of auto-damage, high attacks, and high hitpoint ratio and you're better set.
For example, that CE band that made the top 8 at Gencon (Lich, tech units, Red Sam etc.) would probably do pretty well. It has no "head" to cut off, has a great mix of abilities (breath weapon, plenty of save-lowering, Lich can threaten a paralysis from across the board before the Monks get to the army, etc.). A ZWD is also a good unit against Monks - they would have to waste multiple Stuns just to do enough damage to have a hope of killing it, and if they just run past it they risk getting easily hit for 10 magic damage (+18 attack on the ZWD). It even does a teensie bit of auto-damage, perhaps for that last 5 damage to force a morale save...
It's the same reason why people are talking about Helmed Horrors against the Monks - constructs, high attack, tons of life. Only thing is, no one has figured out if the Helmed Horror is quite tier 1 yet. But it does look like a solid unit.
Drizzt bands also equally matched against Monks, and these days the Drizzt band is absolutely Tier 1 capable against the rest of the metagame. Devis for Countersong, Guen for a fearless hitting with high hp (and good saves), Rikka for a more-or-less guaranteed 20 dmg swing (using Waylay) and respectable saves under Drizzt's command effect, Drizzt having Conceal 6, easy ways to buy Conceal for the other hitters (CG has plenty of it), and easy ways to buy some auto-damage (Wand Expert, Tactician, Renegade Warlock, Mialee, etc.). While it's not exactly a "counter" band, it has even odds against Monks such that playing skill and luck will determine the winner, instead of fate.
Other options for evening the odds:
- PDK's Fear cone with some combination of efficient hitters (LG has plenty now)
- Dual-Lich
- Naga/Beholder or Naga/Gauth with meatshield units (of which LE has plenty of nasty ones)
- One or two Chraals (instead of three)
- Elminster (yes!) for Silver Fire (20 damage line, NO SAVE for half) combined with meatshield units to block access to him.
This is just a small list of the plenty of options warband-builders have against Monks. There are things you can do to even the odds. | |
| |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 12:40 PM |
| I really think you're under-valuing the LSD / CoDA / Mialee / Standardbearer core. On the right terrain and map (which the +7 for the CoDA vs the +3 from the Young Master should make possible a considerable amount of time) the Gith will be hard pressed to drop the LSD in a timed match. When the CoDA isn't giving the LSD 60 extra hit points he's throwing a 50/50 dismissal shot on one of the Giths.
And remember, Chris (hearts) monks. The LSD / CoDA / Standardbearer combo is awfully potent. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
|
kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 2:00 PM |
| The Chaos Hammers are for the rest of the warband, not the Marut. If you can get through SR and hurt the Marut, it's just gravy.
The main purpose is to kill off all the activations and injure things like the Couatl and CoO/CoDA. | |
| |
|
Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 2:39 PM |
| Chris - I keep telling you. Countersong stinks! dont use it! dont tell people about it! :P
seriously tho.. a 10 point piece that saves 40 HPs vs the Monks? very nice. Toss a Healer in there for a ton more HPs for 12 points? maybe. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
| |
|
John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 3:22 PM |
| It seems like it would be pretty easy to swarm a marut with a triple Death Slaad band. Since they are "single-minded", they'd be forced to ignore the orc warriors and abyssal maws attacking them and focus their efforts on killing the death slaads (which takes them a lone time). Such a waste of attacks... [V]
Hey, would replacing one of the death slaads for a blue slaad be better versus gith monks? It would increase damage output at least, and the blue slaad, with +15/+15 from the death slaad's commander effect, would hit more reliably.
~John | |
| |
|
jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 12/11/2005 3:56 PM |
| I think high ac bands can be a bane after the auto dam is done.
so something like:
x1 Half-Orc Paladin 48
x1 dwarf artificer 21
x2 Warforged Hero 36
x1 Standardbearer 10
x1 Aramil, Adventurer 13
x2 Gold Dwarf Soldie 17
198 points 8 figs.
| |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
|
ccolinh
Sneak
144 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 11:29 AM |
| A little band I like to call "Screaming HOE Down"
38 Mind Flayer Telepath
46 Half-Orc Executioner x2
46 Human Blackguard
20 Snig + Friends
33 Duergar Champion
11 Gravehound
5 Blue
199, 11 activations
Yeah, yeah - I know this band suffers in alot of areas but just let those Giths get close to my HOEs!
Timing is everthing here of course but the HOE's (if kept alive - easier said than done, I know) can lay out some smackage. I would try to keep the HOE's and the MFT at least 11 spaces away from a monk and well screened with fodder. If they engage the fodder, scream and flank the monk(s. If they attack (and probably kill) the commander or hitter, scream and flank. Hopefully, with skill and careful play you should be able to kill or rout at least 2 monks with just the HOEs in a multiple flank situation.
Who knows? - I'll try it out and see.
| |
Champion of the ???
Completed Trades (19): Raland, Frostrune, Ghendar (x2), Siddartha of Suburbia (x2), ckissee, doubtofbuddha, dagonet, jgsugden, Bugsy, smetzger, sttmxn, Drakkengi, Vrecknidj, Caustic_Mouse, lyus_sleyden, shoesan, Username, | |
|
Puggins
Sergeant
622 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 12:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by NightMoor
The LSD is a terrible candidate against a Gith Monk band. The thing people need to realize is that Gith Monks *looooove* facing bands with a single, expensive figure as its core. They are pretty much tailor-made to destroy bands like that. An LSD is a beautiful sight for a Monk player, because it's a 122 pt piece that you can pretty much guarantee will die (120 dmg for free before the real fighting starts).
Don't get me wrong, those auto-critting fists are awfully intimidating, and in an ideal environment the LSD would have serious, almost insurmountable issues.
But the problem is that it's going to be awfully hard to get to that idealized situation. The LSD has more maneuverability than the monks since it flies and has reach. The monks are 55% likely to fail their saves against the LSD's breath (the YM is 40% likely), making the LSD's cones the first couple of "bumps" in the road that the Gith monks have to overcome. If the LSD manages to hit a couple of monks with either cone then the slightest bit of bad luck on the monk player's part will seriously undermine his chance of winning, since losing even one of those auto-crits (or the YM's commander effect) means that the LSD is unlikely to die in a timed match. Throw in a standardbearer like CristopherGroves suggests and you have even more issues to deal with.
I'm not saying that its a bad matchup, since I haven't played it at all. It's far from an easy victory, however. | |
References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231 | |
|
John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 2:20 PM |
| I don't think large dragons have reach... Dragons have stubby arms. [:)]
I think LSD has speed 9, a large base, and no melee reach. It has much less maneuverability than Gith Monks.
~John | |
| |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 2:25 PM |
| | I am amused how threads like this almost inevitably end up housing a bunch of bizzare warbands that might or might not actually be good against the band originally stated. | |
I am not gone. | |
| 2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 2:28 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by John05
I don't think large dragons have reach... Dragons have stubby arms. [:)]
I think LSD has speed 9, a large base, and no melee reach. It has much less maneuverability than Gith Monks.
~John
I think by "reach" he meant the LSD has speed F9 plus an additional 6 spaces from the breath weapon. I usually factor these types of things into first strike capability. For example, an Ogre Ravager has a speed of 6, but is Large and has Melee Reach 2, giving him a better effective striking distance than his speed of 6 suggests.
In this case, the LSD could move 9, and still impact squares as far away as 15 spaces from its original location. That gives it a slight advantage over vanilla speed 10 in certain circumstances. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
|
Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 12/12/2005 2:36 PM |
| | This applies to Aspect of Kord as well. Kord can move 10, hit a GM another 2 squares away, force a morale check, then repeat on another GM with snake's swiftness from a Crow Shaman. | | | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9934 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 12/12/2005 2:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by John05
It seems like it would be pretty easy to swarm a marut with a triple Death Slaad band. Since they are "single-minded", they'd be forced to ignore the orc warriors and abyssal maws attacking them and focus their efforts on killing the death slaads (which takes them a lone time). Such a waste of attacks... [V]
Hey, would replacing one of the death slaads for a blue slaad be better versus gith monks? It would increase damage output at least, and the blue slaad, with +15/+15 from the death slaad's commander effect, would hit more reliably.
~John
Yes, in this particular case, I think replacing one of the Death Slaads with a Blue Slaad is a good idea. Plus, it'll save you a few points to beef up another unit. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |