Lord_Raven
Sergeant
391 Posts
    
 | | 01/17/2006 11:39 PM |
| I'm seeing my local gaming group disappearing one by one - because of the overly powerful Monk warbands...
One guy soley runs a version that rarely loses - and if you did build something specificly to beat G.A.S., my FB warband is shreading whatever beats Monks... it's kinda dumb. It seemed a little more balanced before Underdark.
I'm having a hard time right now keeping my regular players and possibly new players interested vs getting disgusted and walking away from the game and selling their pieces to play Warmachine! (not bashing Warmachine just an example, also Clout)
What are others playing and doing locally to keep players interested? I'm looking for suggestions - and nobody wants to buy more boosters with Wardrums coming so soon...
Not to mention the whole "rules being tossed" soon and moving to 8 fig, maps and CMD - speed 2 going away! I can't hold an event and ask players to use tiles and 12 figs because no new players want to learn a dying system!!
signed: "frustrated DDM organizer"
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Winter Fantasy, Wardrums Pre-release Champion
**Proud Member of Team Amish!** | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 12:07 AM |
| In three parts:
1. Monks
It's something I've pondered on. In the end I keep coming back to the HEBI and Guerilla Warfare bands. During the off-season last year they were all the talk, alot of people were conviced it was unbeatable yada yada, things changed, Drider went away, new bands appeared (old bands still dominated). Monk's are tough, but as other's have talked about, they are not dominating everywhere. Now the question becomes are they not dominating everywhere because they are not being played everwhere? or are they just not as dominant. I think the off-season is an odd snap shot of the future, WD might offer alot that counters.
2. Keeping players during the off season:
Again this is tough. Knowing about the rule change so far in advance is a mixed bag. Have you tried just getting people to use 8 figs and maps? Wardrums is coming fast. I would suggest doing some alternative formats (reverse tourament, no-rares, etc) to keep people busy and interested until Wardrums hits.
3. Monks effect on number 2:
If they are dominating that bad, could it be as simple as asking the person not to play the monks for now? What version of Monks is the person running? Lots of Death Slaads and LE being run to counter? | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 12:50 AM |
| We've never had a good local turn out. We do ok for pre-release events but our league is just a few friends.
One thing to try is sealed events. Specially if you price it so that you get your two boosters at less than what you could buy them for regularly. It doesn't have to be much. This usually works better soon after a new set versus later (more likely they plan on buying more boosters anyway).
Also League kits. The League organizer decides how the promo minis and extras are giving out I believe. Keep some promo minis as a door prize, or if you have enough, 1 for each person.
For the "in-between the rules" thing...you may just have to wait.
For the Anti-Monk thing...ok, so this guy places G.A.S. all the time. If someone shows up, he beats the guy with the monks but you kill him with a Frenzied Berserker band...so...which player is the problem? How about you not shreading the players who are getting disappointed? | |
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Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:06 AM |
| I'd also suggest limited-draft as a format -- each player buys or brings two boosters, and then minis are selected using the Rochester draft method.
Each player ends up with 16 minis, and warbands are constructed using up to two factions (pick one of Law, Chaos, Good, Evil).
Then play the league for a few rounds - even week-to-week.
It gets most people on an even footing, and is slightly less random than Sealed. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
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Teach
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:12 AM |
| I think what makes the monks so frustrating is when run effectively, they are incredibly tough to beat. On top of that, it isn't clear yet how to properly attack a monk band if you are not playing a mirror band. Even if you kill off the commander, you're still facing some tough figs that you likely have to still kill. On top of that, they can autohit, which is indeed a really frustrating when you're playing against them.
Up here in Minnesota, very few people bring bands that have proven track records to a tournament, which is why even though a monk band won the previous 200 point event, no monk band showed up this saturday. We also had 16 people show up.
I agree with some of the other posters, suggest to the player that he should bring something else to the next tournament. We also have a $5.00 fee to play, which isn't much, and lets you draft from bosters (i think we had 5 boosters to draft from this time) no matter what place you came in. I know it kept me coming back when I first started and didn't have a lot of figs, knowing that I'd likely get 2 uncommons and bunch of commons. We've also started to reward a rare to the best theme band.
Perhaps you could incoporate those ideas into your next tournament. That way even if the monks win again, other people are going home happy.
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Lord_Raven
Sergeant
391 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:12 AM |
| True - we are in a wierd place right now - because 8 fig & maps are being played right now - alot of this is due to Maxmini's players playing on Vassal (who can blame them) hardly see anyone playing tiles anymore! This is a good thing, but the transition coming is making it wierd to hold onto new players...
The guy playing GAS is a newby also - but has really latched onto the Monk warband. I could ban that warband and FB's - but that defeats the purpose for playtesting. Looking for bands that are balanced from each faction that do well against each other is tough! Wardrums hopefully will address this!
I've told my players that new rules and new figs should fix the problems, but they aren't waiting around. Most see this as a WotC-MTG mistake all over again! (Blue is too powerful... blah blah blah)
Yes I get the retailers kits and the DCI events are few and far between with all the holidays and such going on... besides until Jan. 06 - nobody was interested in the "tiles" from the kits. Interest has perked again with the Epic Cards coming out. We run sealed events when new sets come out, but specificly I am refering to this current time of year. Or do players always just drop out during winter? | |
Winter Fantasy, Wardrums Pre-release Champion
**Proud Member of Team Amish!** | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11416 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/18/2006 1:16 AM |
| | Death Slaads can be rough on Gith Monks. They have two area of effect attacks that can work wonders if there's no Couatl around. Fight them with a Clay Golems or ZWD's too - immune to stun, and no double damage from the auto-crit, plus a high enough BAB to hit AC 25. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Teach
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:22 AM |
| The problem with death slaads is they can have trouble standing up to a Frezied Beserker band. I'm not sure, haven't seen the two face off.
Right now it really feels like rock paper scissors in the metagame, maybe a bit more than it did before, which isn't always much fun. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11416 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/18/2006 1:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Teach
The problem with death slaads is they can have trouble standing up to a Frezied Beserker band. I'm not sure, haven't seen the two face off.
Right now it really feels like rock paper scissors in the metagame, maybe a bit more than it did before, which isn't always much fun.
Yes, FB's are pretty hard on most figs, but remember, a Death Slaad has a pretty good chance of pulling off a deadly rend against a low AC chaotic heavy-hitter. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:30 AM |
| | Get everyone to bring lots of Helmed Horrors. That will teach him :) | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
"Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!"
Champion of the Frost Salamander | |
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MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:30 AM |
| The monks still have to make their rolls against conceal right?
Load up on hitters with conceal to counter them.
Dual Duergar Champion
Helmed Horror
Dark Naga
and filler (not sure if Gauth fits in here too)
should prove to be a fairly balanced game, no? | |
John
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:51 AM |
| If your players are jazzed about the epic cards, why not run epic games?
Would eliminate the monks and give them something new to experience.
Also, if you're really worried about your gaming group dying, I would hold off on the Frenzied Berserkers. If this new guy loses a few times with the Gith Monks he may start mixing it up a bit. If you see someone bring a band specifically to counter the monks, reward them by not destroying them in their next match.
By forgoing a few easy wins now, you'll still be able to play in the future. | |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11416 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 01/18/2006 2:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MackeyJ
The monks still have to make their rolls against conceal right?
Load up on hitters with conceal to counter them.
Dual Duergar Champion
Helmed Horror
Dark Naga
and filler (not sure if Gauth fits in here too)
should prove to be a fairly balanced game, no?
Yes, this warband should do very well against Gith Monks. Maybe take out a Duergar Champion and put in another Helmed Horror. Now, you can fling those lightning bolts around a bit easier. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 6:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
quote:
Originally posted by MackeyJ
The monks still have to make their rolls against conceal right?
Load up on hitters with conceal to counter them.
Dual Duergar Champion
Helmed Horror
Dark Naga
and filler (not sure if Gauth fits in here too)
should prove to be a fairly balanced game, no?
looks alot like the warband i ended up with. cept i used a chraal instead of one of those champs.
monks did seems all that great when i first used them, only ever won once with them, but i was using them wrong and it shows.
here an idea that i would like to see. AFTER 5 WINS (IN A ROW, or so) AT A TOURNMENT, THE WINNING BAND IS BANNED FROM THE TOURNMENT FOR 5 TOURNMENTS. slam his bnad gets banned he, makes a new one everones happy. what happen if someone else bring that monk band? too bad, the band it self is band. (but mine uses a dwarf instead of fodder, DONT MATTER still the monk band, BAN for 5 weeks!
just a thought.
Yes, this warband should do very well against Gith Monks. Maybe take out a Duergar Champion and put in another Helmed Horror. Now, you can fling those lightning bolts around a bit easier.
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Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 7:48 AM |
| | Another band to try: Couatl x2, Marut, something with countersong. Twin snakes swiftness and a Marut coule rock the monks. If he splits the monks to multiple targets, the Marut easts them one-by-one. If they don't, that's three attacks per round on something they can get to. Only one in range of Marut, sonic orb time. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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bshugg
Underboss
1832 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 8:04 AM |
| The monk band is like the Large Silver used to be. Insanely tough to deal with if you hadn't faced it or prepared for it, but if you plan for it, it becomes much easier to face. If it really grows to be a domininant force in the metagame, then people will start to build bands to cope with it. Once theres a lot of counter bands to it, it will become less played.
Since your having a problem with it locally, rather than playing bands to smash the anti-monk bands, why not join in and help them design the Anti-monk bands. If anything it will spark more interest in the players as they will develop further understanding of the game. Lead by example. Show them that monks can be beaten by a lot of different things and they will be happier for it. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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Lord_Raven
Sergeant
391 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 8:58 AM |
| Good ideas from everyone - thanks!
I think the right way to go is to lead by example (bshugg) so i'll try and focus all my attention on Anti-monk bands...
So the consensus is - LE
parts include - Dark Naga, HH's, D.Champ, possible Gauths?
I'll play around with several builds and try and put an end to these Monks from Hell!
Still needs to be solid against things like FB's.
I wonder if LSD still has a place in the current meta?
2x Couatl & Marut is a pretty good idea - with a version to include JA's - just wonder how often it wins?
I think conceal is the real key to win vs monks...
Monks make the opp. roll so much - eventully you fail some, Conceal is the reverse? just with lower odds of making the roll.
Thanks for the help everyone - please submit anti-monk warband ideas here - I'll try them out!!! | |
Winter Fantasy, Wardrums Pre-release Champion
**Proud Member of Team Amish!** | |
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Aramus
Warrior
181 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 9:55 AM |
| | You could also try different formats...we use to do highlander tournaments in magic when we got tired of the same old decks whening again and again. So in minis it would be no more than 1 of any given mini. This would add some variety to bands and gets some less used pieces some needed playing time | |
Play and have fun, this hobby is an escape from the harsh realities of life | |
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muselindeman
Sneak
133 Posts
USA
| | 01/18/2006 9:59 AM |
| Bands that do well vs. GAS have creatures that cannot be stunned (constructs, plants, undead), avoid the ac25 (Area damage, magic, special dmg) and are not counting on a weak leader to survive. Try and kill the YM first (avoids the nasyty extra damage.)
Along w/ some ideas already mentioned, think about Red Samurai + ce beaters. one 30 pt hit and they need to make a moral sv. If you are worried about the Couatl vartient, beaters w/ conceal are better. (Dual Duergar Champion and DK Naga were mentioned.)
I like the LSD, personally. Area effect cones (even the Couatl does not help vs the Paralysis!) difficult to stun (sv 17), can take several empowered hits before it needs a moral sv, which it usually makes (lvl 17 rocks!)
Have Fun!!! | |
Larry Lindeman
trade refrences: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12442 | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:02 AM |
| I don't know that a Marut is that great a matchup. With the Auto-hit Stunning attacks (no crit) and the Young Master Cfx, a 3 monk band has dropped the Marut to 15hp, if he's running a Couatl one Sonic Orb ends tha game.
You'd have to play this very carefully. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:29 AM |
| | Dragons can be stunned.. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:39 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Raven
I'm seeing my local gaming group disappearing one by one - because of the overly powerful Monk warbands...
Monks powerful?????
were you losing players when every one (or at least the same 2-3 people) only played 3 orc champs + CE hitter?
I lost soo many players becuase of that. It is good to have more balance in the factions now. | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
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Tananthalas
Sneak
64 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:42 AM |
| i have found this band to be competative against the GAS bands
2 duegar champs
2 helmed horrors
uthrok the vicious
3 3pt fodders | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1357 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:43 AM |
| I've not lost to a Gith Monk band yet with this warband:
Chraal
Urthok the Vicious
Duergar Champion x2
Green Dragon
Snig the Axe
Blue
Goblin Skirmisher x7 (including minions)
The main tactic is to get the Chraal out in front and fill up a choke point with the goblins. Use breath weapon and death burst to maximum effect, focus the Chraal on taking down one monk, and keep using the goblins' ranged attacks, hoping for a 20. If they ignore the Chraal, use it to go after the commander, and force the monks to wade through a score of 3-point goblins hitting at +6 melee for 10 damage. By the time they get to the Duergars (if they get to the Duergars), there's not much threat left. This warband will tear up Frenzied Berserkers as well. | | | |
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DaemonKain
Warrior
312 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 11:16 AM |
| Well, I agree with many of the comments. Yes, we are having trouble with the rules changing, etc. That will pass in a few months, and you can make a push to bring new players in.
Second would be tournament timing. I know I simply can't make it an hour to Richmond during the week. I'd love to play with you guys though, so if you schedule on weekends, that's a lot more doable for me (I know we've already discussed this... we still on for the 28th?).
And I love to run things that beat Monks. :) Mind telling us if he uses a Couatl or not? | |
-DaemonKain
Proud Mascot of Team Amish | |
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lantern314
Sergeant
684 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 11:52 AM |
| First of all, the are quitting this to play Clout? Seriously?
Second, if you hear that the transitions to maps is a barrier remind them that the rules seem to be staying substantially the same, and that except for tile placement skills the things that they learn to do well now will still be useful under the new rules. | |
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Urban Druid
Warrior
253 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 12:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
I don't know that a Marut is that great a matchup. With the Auto-hit Stunning attacks (no crit) and the Young Master Cfx, a 3 monk band has dropped the Marut to 15hp, if he's running a Couatl one Sonic Orb ends tha game.
You'd have to play this very carefully.
But remember that in the Couatl band that was mentioned, Countersong (usually in the form of a Standardbearer) will negate the CFX, dropping that painful 60 damage down to 30. Plus, the Couatl's Sonic Orb is dropped from 15 to 5 by your own Couatl. After that, +9 attacks look a lot better when thrown against the 25 AC, especially when the Marut is reliably hitting back for 30 damage (b/c Countersong also negates the enemy Couatl CFX), forcing MC's in one hit and killing in two. | |
*This post was recorded before a live studio audience* | |
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General_Boy
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Urban Druid
quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
I don't know that a Marut is that great a matchup. With the Auto-hit Stunning attacks (no crit) and the Young Master Cfx, a 3 monk band has dropped the Marut to 15hp, if he's running a Couatl one Sonic Orb ends tha game.
You'd have to play this very carefully.
But remember that in the Couatl band that was mentioned, Countersong (usually in the form of a Standardbearer) will negate the CFX, dropping that painful 60 damage down to 30. Plus, the Couatl's Sonic Orb is dropped from 15 to 5 by your own Couatl. After that, +9 attacks look a lot better when thrown against the 25 AC, especially when the Marut is reliably hitting back for 30 damage (b/c Countersong also negates the enemy Couatl CFX), forcing MC's in one hit and killing in two.
Also, the Couatl's sonic orb is subject to the Marut's spell resistance so it only has a 50/50 shot of even doing 5 damage, assuming your Couatl is still applying its Commander Effect. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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General_Boy
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Sonic Orb ignores SR ... FYI
That's right! Forgot all about that when I was posting. Wondered why no one else was saying anything.
I will go receive my punishment now. Must remember... Must remember... | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 1:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Urban Druid
quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
I don't know that a Marut is that great a matchup. With the Auto-hit Stunning attacks (no crit) and the Young Master Cfx, a 3 monk band has dropped the Marut to 15hp, if he's running a Couatl one Sonic Orb ends tha game.
You'd have to play this very carefully.
But remember that in the Couatl band that was mentioned, Countersong (usually in the form of a Standardbearer) will negate the CFX, dropping that painful 60 damage down to 30. Plus, the Couatl's Sonic Orb is dropped from 15 to 5 by your own Couatl. After that, +9 attacks look a lot better when thrown against the 25 AC, especially when the Marut is reliably hitting back for 30 damage (b/c Countersong also negates the enemy Couatl CFX), forcing MC's in one hit and killing in two.
Better not leave one opening to that standardbearer, even the slightest opening will result in a dead standardbearer real quick | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 2:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Lord_Raven
Good ideas from everyone - thanks!
I think the right way to go is to lead by example (bshugg) so i'll try and focus all my attention on Anti-monk bands...
So the consensus is - LE
parts include - Dark Naga, HH's, D.Champ, possible Gauths?
I'll play around with several builds and try and put an end to these Monks from Hell!
Still needs to be solid against things like FB's.
I wonder if LSD still has a place in the current meta?
2x Couatl & Marut is a pretty good idea - with a version to include JA's - just wonder how often it wins?
I think conceal is the real key to win vs monks...
Monks make the opp. roll so much - eventully you fail some, Conceal is the reverse? just with lower odds of making the roll.
Thanks for the help everyone - please submit anti-monk warband ideas here - I'll try them out!!!
also try Lord soth with two Chraals as a base. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 2:50 PM |
| | My LE Quad: Helm Horror, 2x Duegar Monks, Chaarl, Urthok he Vicious, Snig and Sniglets. That's 200pts, just guard Urthok. | |
My Trading Thread | |
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BudLeiser
Warrior
218 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 5:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by orcmonk220
My LE Quad: Helm Horror, 2x Duegar Monks, Chaarl, Urthok he Vicious, Snig and Sniglets. That's 200pts, just guard Urthok.
I doubt Duergar Monks will beat it. | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 5:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
quote:
Originally posted by Urban Druid
quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
I don't know that a Marut is that great a matchup. With the Auto-hit Stunning attacks (no crit) and the Young Master Cfx, a 3 monk band has dropped the Marut to 15hp, if he's running a Couatl one Sonic Orb ends tha game.
You'd have to play this very carefully.
But remember that in the Couatl band that was mentioned, Countersong (usually in the form of a Standardbearer) will negate the CFX, dropping that painful 60 damage down to 30. Plus, the Couatl's Sonic Orb is dropped from 15 to 5 by your own Couatl. After that, +9 attacks look a lot better when thrown against the 25 AC, especially when the Marut is reliably hitting back for 30 damage (b/c Countersong also negates the enemy Couatl CFX), forcing MC's in one hit and killing in two.
Better not leave one opening to that standardbearer, even the slightest opening will result in a dead standardbearer real quick
Absolutely... but even that slight delay in auto-damaging the Marut could well be the difference in the matchup, as the Marut, with the help of a Couatl snake's swiftness, could well kill one Monk before it does it's 20 auto damage to the Marut. That 20 damage could be the difference.
...
Even better if there IS absolutely no opening to the Standardbearer!
-----
To the original poster: Just be careful, a lot of things that seem good against Monks aren't necessarily as good as they appear. I imagine most of the above bands would have a chance against Monks... but I'm not sure whether or not any of them are able to really dominate against Monks. The only band I know beats Monks most every time is 4 Helmed Horrors, but only if playing without the speed 2 rule. (Even with the normal rule, 4HH + Snig might still actually work, but it'd take a lot of skill to pilot, and I don't really know if it'd work well enough or not.) While other LE bands might work, if you read doubtofbuddha's recent tourney report, you'll see how, for example, bands with a couple Helmed Horrors can be defeated.
If your opponent isn't running the Couatl, there are lots of counter bands out there. If he is running the Couatl, the non-couatl version is a great counter... but it might not give your fellow players the right impression. [)]
A wild band, but it's just possible that Moon Elf Fighter plus 5 Renegade Warlocks (or a variation thereof) would actually work. Untested is putting it mildly, but the Warlocks do have conceal 6 to occassionally frustrate the auto-crit, and ranged auto damage that ignores both the 25 ac AND the Couatl's commander effect. Moon Elf Fighter allows them to all go at the same time so as to focus their damage on a single target. Even with the Monks' speed, that's enough damage to drop one Monk before he really does anything. I'd have to see it play out to really know how well it works, though.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 6:04 PM |
| This is why I voted the Gith Monk the best mini in Underdark. This piece has really changed the game.
I've only gone up against it once, and got my @#$ handed to me. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1191 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 6:26 PM |
| I often use this:
Couatl
Cleric of Yondalla
Marut
Justicator
Man at Arms x3
Aramil
Tend to work well against alot of warbands, even monk ones, aramil makes a monk have +7/+7 AB and reduces the damage down to 10 on a crit or 5 regular, after that they have a hard time hitting the AC of the marut and justicator, and you only need to do 30 to a gith monk to do a moral save. | |
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vudumumu
Sneak
83 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 6:56 PM |
| | I'm pretty sure that the minus 5 damage happens after the initial damage is calculated. So it would be 20 - 5 for 15. | | | |
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Zyla
Underboss
1191 Posts
| | 01/18/2006 10:22 PM |
| | Against a Marut it would be 10 if the gith had a young master for support, as constructs dont take double from criticle hits. | |
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