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DDM Constructed Champion 2006
derry
Warrior
268 Posts
    
 | | 02/03/2006 6:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tried
Smyrin played
Eye of Gruumsh, LRD and Ravager at KublaCon in May of 2004, and had been practicing with it before.
It may not have been called LRB way back then, but its pretty damn close.
Although Bshugg gave it the cool monicker and popularized it, this is the first use of an "LRB-like" band that I remember.
As other posts said and I agree, Sven's use of a commander other than the Drow Sergeant made the warband weaker (he used the Tielfing Captain.)
Conceptually (in my mind only) LRB derived from another warband that showed up at Kublakon 2004 (a 2004 Qualifier). That warband was Dagni's warband: 7 Orc Warriors, Abyssal Maw, Aspect of Lolth, Red Dragon, Drow Sergeant.
At the time, I discounted the Drow Sergeant and considered him to be a liabiity. But some elements of Robert's strategy were explored by him, me, and many others over the following year, especially in combination with running the LRD similarly to the LSD point-denial/turtling strategies.
I learned a lot by running over the match and possibilities and variations in my mind. Seeing ways to play the Drow Sergeant as something other than a liability opened up a number of warband options since. After the match in 2004, we all talked together and a consensus by many in the conversation is that Robert's warband would have had more flexibility with two heavy hitters instead of the Aspect of Lolth. So that is why at that time, I consider LRB to have be born (stillborn actually.)
I still kept my hangups though, and could not play the single commander version, opting instead for the far less capable 10 activation version. I just copied from my spreadsheet at the time: Drow Sergeant, Orc Champion, Eye of Gruumsh, Large Red Dragon, 6 Orc Warrior.
As to why it was not played by any of those there, I guess my answer was that the game was not right for it yet. As the metagame evolved over summer 2004 to summer 2005, especially the arrival of GoL shifted the game to the Drider after the rules for baleful transposition changed, relegating what later became known as LRB for later rediscovery.
Side note: my warband for that tournament, which I played both Sven (smyrin) and Robert (Dagni) was 2 Orc Druids, Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champion, Red Samurai, Orc Spearfighter, 6 Orc Warriors. I ran this same warband at the 2004 Constructed Championship (although I really debated swapping an Orc Druid for a Drider Sorcerer, I did not due to my desire to keep matches speedy.)
My very old report of the Kublacon 2004 Constructed Qualifer: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=250746 (not my finest hour in terms of being a good sportsman, but still an interesting read.) | |
Member of the Low Post Count but High Post Content Society | |
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Venator
Skirmisher
42 Posts
| | 02/04/2006 6:54 AM |
| innovations... a tough one.
emerged with DDM... im not really sure there are many :(. everything we have here is basically something from another game done a slightly different (better?) way right? Terrain placement, 'buff' 'debuff' effects via a central unit or card, dice, gridded movement, point totals, unit control, map control, the way you win or lose... the list goes on and on. After all, most of us are playing here because we found it a better alternative to a (very) similar game.
I guess the one innovation they have is the presentation of D&D's initiative into a turn based "round" system... 2 by 2, then finish up and start again. Its a pretty complex system and im not sure it was used before DDM. (Chainmail maybe?)
As far as metagame innovations... I think they are few and far between. The same themes and 'abilities' that brought us success in other games have brought us success here, they have just come in slightly different shapes and sizes. LSD's, Driders, IM's, OC's... Find the most aggressive piece of "that day and age" and exploit it. The themes that won in other minis games still win here, so you cant really call them innovative. Ex. Find a way to move and still (full)attack (Drider, IM) thats a winning combo in any minis game.
With all that said, it is getting more and more difficult to do as the game gets older and older. I credit that to WotC R&D and a little bit to power creep.
Anyways... most innovative metagame read had to have been LRB. In a few ways it kind of "broke the mold" and managed to trump just about everything around at the time. It used of some of the most aggressive minis around, but it did so in an unconventional way when compared to the meta at large.
Harpies get the "non obvious" honorable mention.
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Toxic_Rat
Sergeant
745 Posts
Lehi, Utah, USA
| | 02/04/2006 10:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Venator
As far as metagame innovations... I think they are few and far between. The same themes and 'abilities' that brought us success in other games have brought us success here, they have just come in slightly different shapes and sizes. LSD's, Driders, IM's, OC's... Find the most aggressive piece of "that day and age" and exploit it. The themes that won in other minis games still win here, so you cant really call them innovative. Ex. Find a way to move and still (full)attack (Drider, IM) thats a winning combo in any minis game.
With all that said, it is getting more and more difficult to do as the game gets older and older. I credit that to WotC R&D and a little bit to power creep.
To this I would add the number of figures that are available. I know I suffer from 'option paralysis' from time to time.
The next innovation that needs to come IMO is more varied game formats. Something more than VP areas to capture. Perhaps something like defending an area with fewer points than your opponent, or capture the flag type things. I think that maps will give us the ability to explore some of these things, but some more variety would be nice. | |
Any time you try to make something idiot-proof, someone always goes out and invents a better idiot.
Champion of Siege Equipment | |
| 2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 02/04/2006 10:59 AM |
| For me personally, a huge metagame "innovation" was the definition of a 'metagame' state in the competitive environment. The demand for this information caused a shift in thinking at top level (WoTC people) that reflected the ongoing feelings of the low level folks (us competitive players). Demand became great enough, and WoTC said, "We must have it!"
And thus, the first WoTC-sponsored (and edited) articles detailing the state of the metagame were published. I have often been accused of suffering from delusions of grandeur, but in this case--there might be a little something to it.
When a game hits the point that competitive play is both competitive enough (i.e., player interest, attention, and quality is VERY high, and in sufficient numbers) and widespread enough for the company itself to sponsor attempts to satiate the competitive consumption of those players, it has hit a significant milestone.
That's cool!
I'm honored that I was the first one to take a crack at it--but the most important thing is: I won't be the last. The door has been opened, and the precedent set. Many, many others will walk through it, and do an awesome job raising the competitive bar in the game.
So, to sum up, I find that the collection of "musings, posts, thoughts, and match results" crunched into a cohensive, logical, and well-edited document, with peer-review, and metagame application, all sponsored by the company, has been a pretty big innovation in my eyes.
Then again, I was sure that the Cleric of Garl Glittergold would be a metagame innovation too. So who am I to say? [:D] | |
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