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Subject: WBC IV: Water Bracket - round 2

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Wrackspawn

ChristopherGroves
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02/10/2006 9:51 AM  
Alright! Votes are in for round one. HidesFromHurricanes


<br>Game 1    HidesFromHurricanes<br>        (bye)<br>                           HidesFromHurricanes<br>                           NewtonCain<br>Game 2    Newtoncain<br>        (bye)<br><br>                                                      __________________<br>Game 3    SlantyEyedWeasel<br>        (bye)<br>                           SlantyEyedWeasel<br>                           juice<br>Game 4    OrcMonk220 (21%)<br>        juice (79%)<br>                                                                                 __________________<br>Game 5    turboman (49%)<br>        elder_basilisk (51%)<br>                           elder_basilisk<br>                           spickedchaindave<br>Game 6    compasmasternecro (41%)<br>        spickedchaindave (59%)<br>                                                      __________________<br>Game 7    okay_mckay (21%)<br>        one_wing (79%)<br>                           one_wing<br>                           felagund<br>Game 8    vash9284<br>        felagund<br>


Round Two Voting
For this round we need votes on the following matches!

Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes v Newtoncain
Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel v Juice
Game 3: elder_bailisk v spickedchaindave
Game 4: one_wing v felagund


Round One Summary
Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes v (bye)
- no vote needed

Game 2: Newtoncain v (bye)
- no vote needed

Game 3: SlantyEyedWeasel v (bye)
- no vote needed

Game 4: OrkMonk220 v juice
- juice's Xendriks were too much for OrkMonk220's Warpriest and Barbed Devil.

Game 5: turboman v elder_basilisk
- In a hard-fought game between the slow and pondering LG forces the three dwarf samurai prevailed against the earth elementals

Game 6: compasmasterneco v spickedchaindave
- The Eberron shifter crew played a tough match here with the outsider foe of the longstriders as the deciding factor giving spickedchaindave the win.

Game 7: okay_mckay v one_wing
- Okay_McKay's lawful band takes the field to a surprising Elminster band. He has staying power, but he simply can't get ahead on points.

Game 8: vash9284 v felagund
- Two similar CG bands face off, but the power of the Ghaele and skirmishing Xendriks ultimately win the point battle.




Here are the bands!

HidesFromHurricanes

Dark Traveller
Xen'drik Champion x6
Halfling Wizard

Dark Traveller gives melee reach to the XCs so they may not be taking the AoO to get their damage bonus. XCs also double as missile support. Hafling wizard stays out of the way.

Update on strategy: The Dark Traveller is there to provide melee reach and at the opportune moment smite (total 25 magic). He can keep up with XCs with swift burst if needed. If there is a big elemental damage component in the opponents, he can get resist 10, but probably save the PPs for burst and Exhalation of Black dragon. XCs will be tag teaming on opponents to keep up there skirmish +10 damage, the trick being to kill things before you have to activate a based XC. The Halfling Wizard can autodamage with MM and 2 Scorching rays where needed. May do the mage armor on a early round. General strategy is to snipe early and often, avoid the hulks like the Clay Golem, prefering to move and take shots on the support pieces. Tile points will be taken by whoever is available, I see it rotating, eventually falling to the Halfling Wiz.

Map of choice Mushroom Chamber (better for one commander archery band) but expect to play on the other players map with commander 2.


NewtonCain
Stinky Giant Ice Queen

DCoL
Hill Giant x 2
Small White Dragon x 2

Only 5 activations
DCoL MWs the Hill Giants.
SWDs cone fodder/tile points/flankers for giants.


SlantyEyedWeasel
Here is the best I could dream up...

Drow Cleric 42
2x Draegloth 112
Drow Arcane Guard 25
3x Loth Sting 21

7 activations, 200 pts

Idea is to magic weapon Draegloths with cleric and get them into combat fast. Use Loth's sting for flanking (with ghost step) and also to bring Cleric's damage bonus into effect. Draegloth are hitting at +15 (with magic weapon and flanking) for 25 magic damage if everything works out correctly, and that aint bad... Drow Arcane Guard is simply gravy on top.

Edit: Plus I should get bonus points for sticking to the drow theme...

OrcMonk220

Wraith of Hextor

Warpriest of Hextor - 52
Barbed Devil - 89
Scarlet Brotherhood Monk - 20
Dolgaunt Monk - 14
Dolgaunt Monk - 14
Zombie - 4
Zombie - 4
Goblin Warrior - 3

juice
ARROWHEAD
038 Valenar Commander
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
023 Xen'drik Champion
199 Points 8 Activations
Using Battlemap Drow Outpost

Warband Strategy - Puncture opposing non-commander minis selectively and when opposing minis approach, flank them with skirmish attack +10!


turboman

This is good cuz I don't have most figs in toolkits

55 Dwarven Defender
34 Loyal Earth Elemental
34 Loyal Earth Elemental
24 Xorn
24 Xorn
21 Dwarf Wizard
06 Tordek Dwarf Fighter
03 City Guard

Burrow Burrow Burrow!!!! Kill Kill Kill!!!!


elder_basilisk

Dwarven Warclan

Battleplate Marshall
3x Dwarf Samurai
3x Gold Dwarf Soldier
Celestial Black Bear
Map: Mushroom Cavern

The celestial black bear gives the band a sturdy assault point grabber on any other map and GDMA enables a Dwarf Samurai to plug the entrance to the central cavern on the first turn, forcing an opponent to take AoOs in order to get assault points without burrow or fly. Alternately, it enables the band to make it into the cavern and at least some of them to attack a flier or burrower who made it into the cavern.

Retaliate offers a good damage bonus that forces your opponent to choose between possibly having an unactivated figure route off the board or taking significantly more damage and +7 morale makes everyone but the black bear +15 or +18 on morale saves. As well as providing tough beaters, three dwarf samurai also make the band much less vulnerable to commander assassination.

compasmasternecro

52 pts 1 War Priest of Hextor
24 pts 6 Xorn
04 pts 1 Zombie

200 points, 8 activations, Map Mushroom caverns

Burrow makes this map very easy also it allows to xorn to attack then step away from an attacker to rob them of multi attacks, Remember if you are based to take one of the 5 damage attacks first so the 20 damage attack can be at +14.

spickedchaindave

Shifter Fun

War Chanter
Longtooth Barbarian *2
Longstrider Ranger *2
Djinni
Gnome Recruit

200 pts. 7 activations

Mushroom Cavern

This warband has a reasonable amount of hit points and hits reasonably hard. The idea is to spread out with the rangers and barbarians and try to get in you opponents backfeild. Run the djinni up in the middle and try to whilwind as many soft targets as possible. The warchanter's job is to try and stay safe and if the opertunity presents itself try to make a fleeing creature run off the board or make a moral check tough on an enemy hitter.


okay_mckay

Battle Plate Marshal
Dragon Samurai
Dwarf Samurai
Earth Shugenja
Eberk, Adventurer
Warforged Fighter
Warforged Fighter


one_wing

Obv this loses to kiddocs band, but it can burninate many other things:

Elminster 100
Adventuring Wizard x2 72br>Hafling Wizard 19
Gnome recruit x3 9

play with mushroom tangle.

Elminster mage armours, then we try and catch as many as possible in the 4 fire cones.

vash9284

Alrighty lets give this a go-around

Overshadowed Potential

Champion of Eilistrae 48
Tri-Kreen Barbarian 55
Halfling Wizard 19
Longstrider Ranger 34
Githyanki Renegade 42
5 Activiations 198pts

This is only due to the fact that I am doing this by memory. I'm HOPING that CoE grants its CE to TKB LR and GR, otherwise this band goes out the window and I lose at Warband building. The longstrider is there mainly for victory Points but is survivable through other fucntions. Halfling is the cheapest source of Magic weapon. and TKB/GR serve as the beaters.

These are all pieces that I wish for the day that they would see competitive play. With the toolkit out they stand a chance



felagund
Ghaele Eladrin 124
Xen'drik Champion x2 46
Half-ogre Barbarian 25
Catfolk 5

Map: Hellspike

It's all about the Ghaele. Improved Initiative, Blindsight, Fear Gaze, F12. These should compensate for her low HP:cost ratio when she's not competing against the tier 1 figures. Not to mention the CE could very well come in handy.

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forkedmoon
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02/10/2006 10:04 AM  
1 Hides from Hurricanes (too many XCs for DCol to last long)
2 juice
3 spickedchaindave (victory points make the difference here)
4 felagund (ghaele's speed)

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ShadowLord XT
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Plane of Shadow

02/10/2006 10:35 AM  
Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes

Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel

Game 3: Elder_Basilisk

Game 4: one_wing

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02/10/2006 10:37 AM  
Water, Round 2

Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes, after the first Giant falls, it's all over quickly
Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel, a Draegloth survives
Game 3: elder_basilisk, too much defense to handle
Game 4: felagund (this was the hardest matchup for me to assess)

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02/10/2006 10:53 AM  
Game 1: Newtoncain just a few average rolls and a couple lucky shots end this quick. I think it'd be close but the Giants would prove too much damage for the Xendriks.

Game 2: Juice on the other hand gets ahead on damage dealing and activations early on.

Game 3: elder_bailisk the 6 Xorns aren't anywhere near as tough as the LEEs so they lose. Wish I had such an easy matchup.

Game 4: one_wing outmanuevers yet another way too slow warband that will end up losing in the end because of that fact.

R~

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02/10/2006 11:05 AM  
1. HidesFromHurricanes, a solid round of ranged attacks should be the difference
2. juice, conceals even out, so I think the extra attacks have it
3. spickedchaindave, speed will make the difference
4. felagund, spell resistance gives it the edge it needs


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02/10/2006 11:09 AM  
1: HidesFromHurricanes
2: juice
3: spickedchaindave
4: one_wing

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North Carolina

02/10/2006 11:22 AM  

1 HidesFromHurricanes

2 juice

3 spickedchaindave

4 felagund

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Low Key
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02/10/2006 11:24 AM  
Game 1 - HidesFromHurricanes
*Hit-and-run tactic's by the Xen'driks will be hard to handle with low activations.

Game 2 - juice
*Too many ranged attack's and speed for the drow to handle.

Game 3 - spickedchaindave
*Speed, speed and more speed. The dwarves just cant keep up.

Game 4 - felagund
*Those Xen'drik's will base the poor spellcaster's fast enough tp prevent any cones to be a serious threat. Not to mention the spell resistance.

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02/10/2006 12:35 PM  
Game 1: Hidesfromhurricanes
Game 2: juice
Game 3: elder_basilisk
Game 4: felagund - the archery of the ghaele makes her hard to get to in this format.

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02/10/2006 12:54 PM  
Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes
Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel
Game 3: spickedchaindave
Game 4: felagund

trades pending: (0)

everything is perfectly going out of control


Felagund
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02/10/2006 1:10 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman

Game 4: one_wing outmanuevers yet another way too slow warband that will end up losing in the end because of that fact.

Hey, you're allowed to vote as you please, but referring to my warband as "way too slow" seems a little bit silly to me. [:)]

1. Newtoncain - One hit from a Hill Giant will take out a Xen'drik if it's been hit by a dragon cone or if the Giant is benefitting from DCoL's commander effect. Then it's on to the cleaving fun.

2. SlantyEyedWeasel - With good HP, good attack/damage, and Blind-fight, I think the Draegloths are good figures to take on the Xen'driks.

3. spickedchaindave - A close match, but GDMA isn't enough to make up for CG's far superior speed. The shifters will get to choose how, where, and when to engage.

4. Abstain. A bad matchup for one_wing, IMO. I can stay back and hit with ranged attacks while he fires magic missles that have a 50% chance of landing(If we play on Hellspike, then it's even worse as he can't return fire). A single ranged attack from the Ghaele will force morale or kill anything in his warband except for Elminster. Once the warband is weakened from afar, I can swoop in to finish it off in melee. Depending on the set-up, it may even be worth running the Half-Ogre into melee at the start.

EDIT: I realized that if I win map initiative, this is basically an auto-loss for him. By moving my figures into the smoke, I've denied him his spells.

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Newtoncain
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Land of 10,000 taxes

02/10/2006 3:01 PM  
Game 1 no vote but here is my statagy for this game. I have commander 5 vs 2 so I should get my map (Mitheral mines).
I'll get 1st turn tile points w/ one of my SWDs (speed 12). Most likely he will not. DCoL will MW the 1st and 2nd round staying behind a giant. SWD #2 will BW as much as it can, then releave the SWD for tile points. SWD will then BW as much as it can an provide flanking.
Because of the tunnels it will be easy to protect the DCoL. If HFH wants to take AoO from the Giants to get to her = be my guest. MOst likely any hit on a XC will result in a cleave for the giant. AC 20 vs +9 or +11 (flanking) is a 50-50 to hit for me for 40 damage. By round 3 I'll be on his half of the board pushing farther forward(using cover when I can for AC24). If I can get the giants(100hps each) and the DCoL to a victor point area = look out. Most likely my giants will not route (lv12 + 5 for the DCoL). His XC route on a 8 or less if they survive the 1st hit. No need for me to use pushback.
Unless HFH is going to put the DT into combat, I don't really see his commander ability coming into playfor all of the XCs.
If HFH wants to skimish me = thants fine. I can hide in a victory room were he will have close with me to get any attacks in. If HFH splits his forces = some one will be out of command. This could allow an oppertunity to jump the dark traveler.
If he gets the mushroom map I have very little chance. But @ +3 to the initiative roll and wins ties is to my advantage.

Poll question here: How many people actually have or know someone that has 4+ XC's at their disposel?

G2=SEW (slant eyed weasel)
G3 = Elder Basilisk
G4 + one wing.

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02/10/2006 4:28 PM  
1. NewtonCain - Every time a giant hits (with flanking) a xen'drick dies
2. (Abstain, but feel that blindfight on Drageloth and ignore spell resistance cold orbs for Arcane guard puts me over the top in a battle of the Drow)
3. Elder_Basilisk - Very close, but got to go with the dwarves
4. fegalund - spell resistance on Ghaele pays off...

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02/10/2006 4:31 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Felagund

quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman

Game 4: one_wing outmanuevers yet another way too slow warband that will end up losing in the end because of that fact.

Hey, you're allowed to vote as you please, but referring to my warband as "way too slow" seems a little bit silly to me. [:)]


Then play something faster!

R~

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02/10/2006 5:56 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman

quote:
Originally posted by Felagund

quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman

Game 4: one_wing outmanuevers yet another way too slow warband that will end up losing in the end because of that fact.

Hey, you're allowed to vote as you please, but referring to my warband as "way too slow" seems a little bit silly to me. [:)]


Then play something faster!

R~



Faster than Ghaele Eladrin + Xen'drick? Maybe you read the wrong band...

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taliesin
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02/10/2006 6:04 PM  
1. Hidesfromhurricanes

2. Slantyeyedweasel

3. Elder_basilisk

4. Felagund

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02/10/2006 9:22 PM  

Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes v Newtoncain
Newtoncain - Im not sure the Xendriks can handle 2 massive beaters and 2 cones that ignore conceal
Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel v Juice
Juice's Arrowhead perforates the Draegloth. no support pieces for you!
Game 3: elder_bailisk v spickedchaindave
Im giving the nod to SpikedChainDave's faster band vs the sturdy lil runts..er.. dwarves
Game 4: one_wing v felagund
gonna depend alot on die rolls, saves, etc. Um.. Felagund?

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02/10/2006 11:01 PM  
Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes, but barely. I think that the 5 acts will be crippling, allowing 3-5 units to act after the last NC unit gone. I have real issues with the thought that DCOL is protectable, and mithril mines will limit the HG mobility. I really think Fane would have been a better map for this group, and that 24 points of undead guards would have won out over the second SWD. In that case, I probably go with NC. However, the reach 2 attack of the Xen under the Traveller allows them to move every turn and attack - (gaining skirmish +10) they don't have to base their opponents. magic.

Game 2: Toss up. SlantyEyedWeasel, -So, I guess this is what I was talking about above. Draegloths are weaker than HG by a fair bit, but are faster and this is made up by the fact that in a band with 7 acts and some very respectable fodder, I think SlantyeyedWeasel perseveres.

Game 3: Spikedchaindave will start out winning on tile points, forcing the dwarves to chase him. I honestly think that he can run around long enought to win on tile points without ever really engaging the dwarves (except for the bear). Unless he commits to a real toe to toes (and there is no need) he will persevere. Since, if the dwarves just trade points, he wins (he is ahead) and if they chase, they leave other tiles open. If they split their band, his group is good enough to beat half at a time.

Game 4: felagund. It we assume that all fodder dies leaving Ghaele and big El, then it still takes Ghaele only 10 rounds of tile to win. Elminster needs 13, so, advantage Ghaele.


Let it be.

Janos M.
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Hamburg / GErmany

02/11/2006 3:36 AM  
my votes go for:

1.)HidesfromHurricanes
2.)Juice
3.)spikedchaindave
4.)one_wing

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juice
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02/11/2006 12:38 PM  
quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain

Poll question here: How many people actually have or know someone that has 4+ XC's at their disposel?



*raise my hand*
I possess 7 Xen'driks! [:D]


Tried
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02/11/2006 4:54 PM  
you mean in real life, or on vassal? [)]


Let it be.

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02/11/2006 10:19 PM  
Water, Round 2

Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes

The breath weapons will probably make the giants able to one-shot the XenDricks. This is good except that the giants only have a 45% chance to hit in the first place, followed conceal, adding up to a 33.75% chance of hitting a Xendrick. The XenDricks, OTOH, have a 70%/45% chance to hit the hill giant in melee and a 75%/50% at range. The hill giants then have a 55% chance to make morale. Since the hill giants are speed 6, it's likely that all of the Xendricks will get at least one shot off before engagement. So, the lead hill giant is likely to take 20 or 30 damage before engaging. (Screening with a small white dragon would probably result in a dead dragon before engagement which might be a fair trade). I think the Hill giants low attack bonus is going to do them in in this game.

The mithral mines (if NewtonCain wins init) seem like they might work against the band since it is likely that only one hill giant will be able to easily engage. It hurts hidesfromhurricanes too since the XenDricks want to be able to swarm a target, but ultimately, I think it hurts Newtoncain more. If he's going to win, he needs both hill giants in every round of the engagement and getting cleaves off.

Game 2: SlantyEyedWeasel
The two Draegoloth will take down the barbed devil (frightful impale is good, but against a +13 morale save, and a (likely) chance to rally before leaving the table, I don't think it's going to win the game). Even though the dolgaunt monks have little to fear from the Lolths' Stings, the stings can provide the Draegeloths with flanks and cause trouble for the warpriest.

Game 3: I can't vote here, but this is my thought.

This one seems like a much better matchup than the previous one to me

The big factor is the mushroom cavern. On other maps, the other band might be able to get an assault point advantage and play keep away for the rest of the game (though it might be hard to play keepaway and not engage while still scoring victory points on each round). On the mushroom cavern, however, even my speed 4 band can score assault points on round one and attempting to dislodge or block the tile grabber means the battle is on since even at speed four, the rest of the band can file into the cavern and block the exits with GDMA or a 2nd turn init.

Game 4: Vash9284

This game is difficult to call because one_wing seems to be trying to play on tiles. However, tiles or no, I think that the wizards are going to end up based in fairly short order. Elminster can take one or two AoOs but the adventuring wizards probably can't. And the thrikeen and longstrider can take one or two fire cones even if basing the wizards isn't enough.


lordrahl_333
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02/11/2006 10:58 PM  
Game 1: Stinky Giant Ice Queen, Beaters are good the XC are great if you are moving and hitting but with these guys even if they all hit all the time they might take the giants down, but the Giants if ever miss.

Game 2: Slanty Eyed Weasel, I am a sucker for all drow bands.

Game 3: Elder Basilisk: Xorn's are cool, but Dwarfs are a tough bunch.

Game 4 Felagund: I think Ghaele would be cool to run.

Side Note: I also have 6 XC


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02/11/2006 11:28 PM  
Game 1 HidesFromHurricanes
Game 2:Juice
Game 3:spickedchaindave
Game 4:felagund

These are my picks for winners


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02/12/2006 2:10 AM  

Game 1-Newtoncain

Game 2-Juice

Game 3-elder_bailisk

Game 4-one_wing

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02/12/2006 4:07 AM  
G1-HidesFromHuricanes (activations and map choice for this one, NewtonCaine is giving up to many chances to hit for a clear victory (and reach on a XC is sweet))
G2-Juice (Coin Flip win this one goes down to who rolls better)
G3-Elder Basilisk (largely due to the fact that Spiked Chain Dave didn't set out to play keep away, if he went for denial I might flip flop, the warchanter would be a high sucess target though)
G4-Felagund (it takes guts to field 2 Adv. Wiz. it wont pay off here they'll get based before the cones go off)
I lay awake Dreaming of owning 6 Xen'Dricks[:p]
I think there might be some confusion as to who is in this second round, I had to reread the top twice to get it straight. I think some votes have been cast for the wrong matches.

Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
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HidesFromHurricanes
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02/12/2006 10:45 PM  
1: No Call, But my strategy (assuming Mithril Mines which against this band is probably better)
Halfling wizard is probably the key piece on my side: first round will move last looking for MM or Scorching Ray on a SWD(moves last). If the SR goes off, SWD is 1 ranged attack from morale check. The Xen'Driks are looking to hit Giants with Ranged attacks. Each needs two hits to be in morale check range after 3 skirmish attacks. Now I really don't want the morale checks with DCoL around since Hill Giants are have only 15% failure. 1st round DT will resist cold(moves first), so he can join the SWD hunt, taking up a position to be helpful to the battle on round 2 or 3.
Round 2 Halfling Wiz on dragon hunt. If I have one giant all by his lonesome we start skirmishing with the XCs. I think that this will be a close game, coming down to if an XC or DT catches the DCoL and how long it takes to go into melee. Turn 3 or later benefits me, because there is probably one dead SWD, that and Hill giant with area VPs should win it. If both Hill Giants come out swinging round 2 I think its a toss up, and I hope the XCs have avoided the cones.
2: juice, but not by much
3: spikedchaindave
4: one_wing

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AesophDarkfable
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02/12/2006 10:47 PM  
1.)HidesfromHurricanes
2.)Juice
3.)spikedchaindave
4.)one_wing

Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat.

IanB
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02/12/2006 11:24 PM  
I think next time you need to edit the bands that have lost out of the post entirely, I think there are some votes that have been cast with the wrong bands in mind and that may be because the bands that lost are still in the post without any clear indication that they're out unless you pay close attention to the matchups at the top. (I see at least one person voted for vash in the felagund vs. one_wing match, for example.)

Anson on WotC boards

juice
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02/13/2006 12:10 AM  
Game 1: HidesFromHurricanes

Game 2: Abstained without comment

Game 3: spickedchaindave

Game 4: one_wing


juice
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02/13/2006 12:21 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by Tried

you mean in real life, or on vassal? [)]



Real life, of course [:D] though it took me quite a while to amass those Xen'driks. I had to bid for them one at a time from ebay, as I could not find anyone willing to trade them away.


Aesnath
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Augusta, GA

02/13/2006 12:10 PM  
Here we go again! After having done this, can you erase the now "non-relevant" warbands from the descriptions at the bottom. It created more searching than was necessary.

Game 1--HidesfromHurricanes--Their ability to strike at the giants in large quantities should give him the edge. Also, being so heavily outactivated hurts in my summation. One attack a round each from the giants also hurts.

Game 2--Juice--Those Xendricks will probably drop at least something significant before real melee begins. Gotta go with them.

Game 3--Elder_Basilisk--The lack of really weak units for the rangers to surround, and a lack of overall damage tends to favor the dwarves.

Game 4--felagund--Hmm, this was a toughie for me. The auto damage and generally low saves of the Ghalae WB tend to favor the wizards. However, the speed and abilities of the Ghalae make me think it'll come out on top.


**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
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