Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
    
United States
 | | 02/12/2006 11:09 AM |
| At yesterday's Midwest Open, there were something like 28 participants. And, from what I saw, at least 20 of us were good players with strong warbands.
I went 1-3, and here's my analysis of why. I'd say about 20% of my record was due to bad matchups, about 20% to really porrly timed bad rolls (we can all recover from the occasional bad roll, but too many in a row, and I don't care who you are, you're going down), but the remaining 60% was to my opponent's skill.
Once upon a time, I could go to a 30-person tournament confident that about a third of the players were among the unenlightened, and that I'd probably have an easy game or two to warm up on. I've found this to be true from local events, to qualifiers, to GenCon.
But, at this event, it was a very different story. My first match (my only win) was grueling.
I miss those days of fighting a Mummy Lord, Warpriest of Hextor band.
Ah, where are the n00bs?
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 11:16 AM |
| | Play me - you will feel so much better about yourself. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
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thepostman
Sneak
75 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 11:34 AM |
| | Don't worry Dave, the Wardrums release is coming soon. You can redeem yourself then. The dice always even out...eventually. | |
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Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/12/2006 12:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by thepostman
Don't worry Dave, the Wardrums release is coming soon. You can redeem yourself then. The dice always even out...eventually.
Looking forward to it.
My friend Dan was at the same tournament I was. His luck was far, far worse. (Nine rolls in a row, in a row!, he missed with Eye of Gruumsh.) How often does +15/+15 miss? Nine in a row, apparently. If you're Dan, anyway.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 1:07 PM |
| On the upside, the one player you did beat ended up going 4-1 and is the top rated player in Illinois.
Triple Red Sam was not a good matchup vs Dual Couatl | |
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TroglodyteWizard89
Warrior
346 Posts
USA
| | 02/12/2006 2:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
Play me - you will feel so much better about yourself.
I was gonna say, youd prob feel better if you played me too. I was just wondering, we are were n00bs once, I wonder how all the n00bs feel about this kind of talk? | |
Champion of Troglodytes!
Guy Who Cant Get Anything Exact
(called uncommon displacer beast for Unhallowed
Squire of Runic Guardian, gets shield Guardian) | |
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Balrog
Sneak
169 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 2:52 PM |
| | it doesnt matter, unless there in denial. i dont consider myself an experianced player, and ive been playing since dragoneye came out. | |
I <3 Orcs.... what does that say about me?
Champion of Raistlin Majere with Epic card
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 3:50 PM |
| | whats the fun in beating up on noobs with poorly built bands? Id much rather have a matchup against a good player with a well built band... more challenging = more fun for me | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 4:09 PM |
| play me, you'll see how a decent player with good a warband can outright lose due to bad rolls :'(
I agree with you, we need more new player. wish my I could get down to my local shop more often. everyone sign up for online and use trash bands :) | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 4:12 PM |
| I'd say we do need more players. Some fresh gamers to bring to the table for wardrums. OK, everyone, bring a friend to our next meeting.
I don't think we need them just for the purpose to win. New talent is always a plus. | |
My Trading Thread | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 4:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by TroglodyteWizard89
quote:
Originally posted by Ack
Play me - you will feel so much better about yourself.
I was gonna say, youd prob feel better if you played me too. I was just wondering, we are were n00bs once, I wonder how all the n00bs feel about this kind of talk?
I agree wholeheartedly. We need more newbies so I can win :). Either that, or I need to switch dice. | |
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John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 4:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
I miss those days of fighting a Mummy Lord, Warpriest of Hextor band.
Ah, where are the n00bs?
Dave
HAHA. [:o)]
Err... I probably shouldn't be laughing as I make pretty stupid bands myself...
Much applause for actually blaming your skill for your losses. Most of the time, Lady Luck is the scapegoat (though she isn't entirely free from guilt herself).
(I don't have the luxury of blaming Luck because she treats me well and scolds me only when I'm being an idiot. Conceal 6 feels like conceal 11 to me. [:)])
Are the older newbs you're playing against just getting better, or are the newer players just better? (Perhaps a shift in the demographic of DDM players?)
~John | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 5:14 PM |
| I would say that anyone who reads these boards is beyond "n00b" status. Maybe it's pride, but I think that simply reading here helps elevate your game ... it did mine. I have been playing DDM for really only a year (although obviously collecting the minis for longer than that). Reading the threads, etc. here greatly helped me.
In my experience, for each of my losses I can usually point to something *I* did wrong. In fact, I can only think of a single match that I've lost where I was beaten by the dice, and probably only another that I was beaten by the matchup. In the matchup one I'm certain my opponent was more skilled, but showing up with a band meant to kill mine AND having more skill was just too much for me to handle ... I just don't think there's any way I could have won that match (CURSE YOU SIENAR!!!!!)
In all other instances I can point to a single mistake (or set of them) that, had I done differently, I would have been able to win the match. After many of these I realized the skill of my opponents, their plans and execution beat me ... I didn't see something, played too hastily, made a mistake.
To be honest, I think the general skill of the players is increasing. I'm one of the better players in my area but I'm certainly not a lock to win an event. I don't lose alot, but at any given event I can easily see any of the top 6-8 players taking it. There was a time where it was probably 2 or 3 of us that could win regularly ... and frankly I like the competition. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 5:20 PM |
| quote:
Ah, where are the n00bs?
Here [:p]
Play me. It'll make your day. | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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deleted
n/a2
Skirmisher
4 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 5:24 PM |
| | Well here I am. Just got into the game and have been getting stomped on. | |
Hooters | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/12/2006 8:55 PM |
| Oh, don't get me wrong, my friends. I was happy to get smeared into paste yesterday (I would have been happier to go home with some Archfiends boosters, but, that's that).
My desire to beat up on some n00bs isn't really what it sounds like. I may have beaten a top player in the first round, and, I know that in every match I had, I could have won if things had gone a little differently. I didn't make any colossally bad moves, I didn't make any huge tactical mistakes. But, in many previous events, I often had a couple of easier matches in any given day. Yesterday, they were all tough matches. There was a lot of sweat, a lot of tenseness, etc. While that's fun, I like to have the occasional match where I can relax.
And, besides, I'm actually a very good opponent for newbies. The previously mentioned Warpriest + Mummy Lord band was piloted by a kid of about 10 at a qualifier last year. My first-round loss (to a player who ended up in the top 8, and, interestingly, ended up one notch below me) put me in the "loser's" bracket and I was paired with someone who wasn't really there for the glory and fame.
So, I took my time, helped him with rules issues, pointed out errors in his play (and let him do some important take-backs before the round was over), and complimented him when he did things well. He had a good time, he learned a lot, and I let the game drag for the whole hour-plus so that we could finish every activation despite my enormous point advantage.
It's not that I needed a match like that in that tournament, but it sure was a nice change to the grinding hardship of yesterday.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 02/12/2006 9:40 PM |
| Maybe i´m a little noob for most of your style of game... maybe i´m a free VP to your collection.
I think that with Wardrums coming new gamers would come and you´ll have plenty to chop down, don´t be so rude give them some opportunity many people scare N00bS | |
Knight of the Quori
Champion of King Kaius III of Karrnath
 Purple Knight of Venezuela
Venezuelan Site For D&D minis Calabozo Criollo Venezuela
Venezuelan Site for SW minis VeneMinis.com | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/12/2006 10:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by John05
Sounds like it was fun... makes me wish I started playing DDM competitively way back in the days of Warpriests of Hextor and Mummylords [:(!]... back when you could relax for a game.
I haven't played many weak opponents (relative to myself). They are all either obviously experienced players or just smurfs (hiding their potential). I don't see how my luck can hold off unless we get more newbs. [B)]
~John
All of us improve over time. I lost so many matches in a row before I started winning it was kinda depressing. But, I kept at it. I think that there are a lot more competitive players than there were 18 months ago, but, there's plenty of room for more.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 10:52 PM |
| Sounds like it was fun... makes me wish I started playing DDM competitively way back in the days of Warpriests of Hextor and Mummylords [:(!]... back when you could relax for a game.
I haven't played many weak opponents (relative to myself). They are all either obviously experienced players or just smurfs (hiding their potential). I don't see how my luck can hold off unless we get more newbs. [B)]
~John | |
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John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 02/12/2006 11:03 PM |
| Hey...
It's pretty cool that you responded to my message before I posted it. [:o)]
(Database problems?) | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 11:00 AM |
| | I will say this - my play isnt flawless but G'Damn do I roll poorly. and I havent brought the "right" band to a tourney in at least 6 weeks. Everythign I bring is just.. gah. Saturday I brought to go after HHs and got schooled by those fire resisting CE Beaters. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/13/2006 11:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ack
I will say this - my play isnt flawless but G'Damn do I roll poorly.
One of these days, I'm going to prove all the statisticians wrong by actually keeping track of players' rolls at some events and showing that, in fact, some people do have miserable luck.
Suppose player A gets 1s as often as player B, but player A rolls a 1 when he's using Mialee to try to hit a Helmed Horror. Player B rolls a 1 when he needs to make a morale save for a Large Silver Dragon. On the one hand, they both just rolled a 1, on the other hand, player B was far more unlucky than player A.
Probability nuthin'! Some people are luckier than others.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 02/13/2006 11:30 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by frogrodeo
whats the fun in beating up on noobs with poorly built bands? Id much rather have a matchup against a good player with a well built band... more challenging = more fun for me
Bingo | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 11:58 AM |
| | Sorry to hear about your frustration Vrecknidj. I have seen the relative skill level of the skirmish game in Atlanta steadily rise of the past year or so. I'm proud to say that I've brought many skirmishers to the game, but I'm also confident that many new potentials find the game intimidating. I hope that when people crack open and play the 'quick start' one on one version in the new starters that the addiction hits 'em hard. | | | |
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sienar
Sergeant
640 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 11:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
In my experience, for each of my losses I can usually point to something *I* did wrong. In fact, I can only think of a single match that I've lost where I was beaten by the dice, and probably only another that I was beaten by the matchup. In the matchup one I'm certain my opponent was more skilled, but showing up with a band meant to kill mine AND having more skill was just too much for me to handle ... I just don't think there's any way I could have won that match (CURSE YOU SIENAR!!!!!)
My ears are twitching.
I didn't bring Ulmo hoping to face your LSD band. It just happened that way. Honest. I didn't bribe anybody to make that match. And, I don't know about the more skilled part. I'd go with reasonbly equal, with maybe more experience on my part. | |
[http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user_id=22] | |
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Captain_Duergar
Skirmisher
18 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 12:42 PM |
| | It would be nice for some more noobs to come into the game but not for easy wins. I find that noobs have less stuff to play with than the more experianced players which cause them to be more creative and they bring a brand new breath of fresh air to the game making it more interesting. I my self am a very experianced played and have been known to loose to noobs because they came up with an army i just couldnt predict and it took out my army over time so I say bring on the noobs. | |
Determination equals Power | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 12:50 PM |
| It would be nice for more noobs so the game grows and doesn't die.
I enjoy helping new players learn the game, even if I accidentally help them beat me (as has happened twice)!
I'm guessing not many new players would make a trip to Chicago for a big open, how would they even hear of it?
Did anyone from the Twin Cities go? It seemed like most of the regulars were at the regular tourney. | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Zoons
Underboss
1066 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 7:33 PM |
| I'm fortunate. I'm in a fledgling community of players in Northern Mass. We're all steadily getting a little better and new players are joining slowly (8 at our last game, and several others talking about joining). Here, with all the experience of about 9 months, I look like one of the better players.
But, all I have to do is travel about an hour and a half southeast to Lynchpt's games and *VIOLA* I'm the noob again. Smackdown city. Somebody else's lunch. El Splatzo.
I gotta say though, our skill is on the rise here. We're often not far off of the bands that I see posted about here on Maxminis, and we generally make 'em up ourselves. That has to say something positive about us. | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 9:23 PM |
| | 9 months? Wow, most of us here have 6 months tops. We do fairly alright | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/14/2006 1:19 AM |
| Noobs aren't always that easy to squish. I'm a noob to skirmish and went 2-1 in a 4 player tourney (lost by 2 points in my first match and would have won by a large margin if I hadn't of rolled a 5 on a conceal roll). I had a lot of fun, all the bands fielded were decent and I can only recall two tactical mistakes being made (3 of 4 players were noobs).
As to noobs not having as many minis....[:D] That assumes that noob skirmishers aren't also RPGers (I have a HUGE minis collection and have had it since Chainmail).
New blood in any game is a generally a good thing. It keeps things interesting. | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
Trade References | |
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Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 3:26 AM |
| | Uhh, I think your missing something here. The problem isn't that your not getting enough noobs it's that you guys in the midwest are making your noobs into players. 28 participants, thats alot. The only way your getting that many is if the old veterans are also good teachers. I've been lurking here for a long time. The guys that have the best turnouts for their tourneys (I'm thinking Spikegif and a couple others) aren't getting near that many, I could be wrong. Want to feel better, take a vacation along the North Carolina coastline. You can whoop up on me and mine[:D] Beter yet move to NC, we need an Old Master to get things going as there is no skirmish scene here. (I could go to Raleigh but schedules never work in my favor)Come to think of it I just thought of a new thread.Just take solace that the "Best of the Midwest" aren't just keeping the game alive but are helping it grow! | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
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Urban Druid
Warrior
253 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 8:28 AM |
| | I'll add my voice to the chorus of "I'll be your appetizer at a big tourney." I've only been in one DCI tourney to date, and I went 0 - 3 [:(] | |
*This post was recorded before a live studio audience* | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 2:50 PM |
| We really did work with the weaker/less experienced players in our group (and one ended up taking 3rd).
In fact, I ended up below 6th out of 7 of the people we brought! (But I now remember one went 3-2 with a bye, so he only technically finished better)
We played between 2-3 nights per week, running each other against different bands on different maps and analysing where we screwed up and how to correct it. A few months ago, we would TELL other people how to play better, this time we worked together to show each other how to do it. I think it worked out alright. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/14/2006 3:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
We played between 2-3 nights per week, running each other against different bands on different maps and analysing where we screwed up and how to correct it.
I don't suppose it made a difference that I only played my band twice before the tournament. Geez, I wish I had more free time so that I could practice more often. The game is tough enough.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 3:34 PM |
| | I am planning on playing at least 6 games a week with a variety of different players starting with the release of War Drums. The competition has become tougher this year, and I am going to become tougher in response to it. I am going to try to get double that amount with the release of War of the Dragon Queen and preperation for Nationals. | |
I am not gone. | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 3:54 PM |
| We made time to play, normally 1 night a week, and sometimes a game or 2 on saturday is standard. However, if we were going to drive 2 hours to play, we wanted to bring home some minis
The one who took 3rd picked up her band on wednesday night, and had some cram sessions Thursday and Friday until she felt comfortable enough to play it.
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11419 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 02/14/2006 3:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tactician
It is even worse, when you beat many player in league play but loose to them all the time in tournies...
That just sucks[:(]
I know this feeling first hand. The no. 1 ranked player in Vancouver had NEVER beaten me (around 6-8 league games, and 2-3 friendlies beforehand) until the Lakewood, WA qualifier last June. He actually won the whole thing (thus his number 1 ranking around here). I don't feel too bad though, he played well and deserved to win. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 4:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Prince o the Raven Banner
Beter yet move to NC, we need an Old Master to get things going as there is no skirmish scene here.
You've got Kiddoc and Chris Groves! What more do you want? [:p] | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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