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MightyEinherjar
Sergeant
387 Posts
    
 | | 02/22/2006 5:54 PM |
| | Now that the Wardrums stats are out, what do you think the next meta-game changing pieces will be? I know it'll be tough to tell before the first few skirmishes, but any predictions? | |
Champion of the Aspect of Tempus | |
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Balrog
Sneak
169 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 6:10 PM |
| see orc wardrummer thread [:D]!!!
also HGB, neo snig, large dueragar, the new pyromancer, the flaming skull (maybe) dragon totem hero, epic warduke (maybe) will all ssee skirmish play | |
I <3 Orcs.... what does that say about me?
Champion of Raistlin Majere with Epic card
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 6:11 PM |
| Not sure, but i really like the Dragon Totem Hero because of the great CFX and the sweet warband building (i'll probably use him epic/non epic in 500pt just to bring an LSD into CG :D) I also like the Large Brass Dragon and the nice samurai with the whirlwind attack CFX. This should be a great set. I still think that the Frenzied Berserker still outshines the Wemic.
Edit: I also like the Zakya Raksasha for a sub of a chraal or so because of its decent melee and nice durability. | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 6:17 PM |
| For sure:
Orc Wardrummer
Warforged Scout
Everything else is negotiable but there are a number of strong pieces.
EDIT: I think the mephling probably deserves a mention here too, not so much for being game changing by offering something especially new, but by opening up access to an Elf Pyromancer-like piece to a lot of new players who had nothing like that in their collections before. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2720 Posts
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 7:08 PM |
| My guessess for thing to keep an eye for;
Sacred Watcher - Speed F6, AC 21, 30 HP, Incorporeal and fearless in LG sound's pretty nice. Just not so sure about the point cost, might not see that much play, but killing one will be a pain.
Dragon Totem Hero - He seems to have a commander effect that will benefit the Xen'driks. I know I'd like to try a heXen'drik warband based on him.
Mephling Pyromancer - A decent Elf Pyro replacement, especially as uncommon.
Warbound Impaler - 19 AC, 125 HP and plant immunities make it very durable for it's point cost, and the chance to paralyze on every strike is nice.
Warforged and Wemic Barbarian - Very Frenzied Berserker type pieces, might be worth trying.
Flameskull - Nice immunities and a fireball, decent speed and AC, might see some play as tech.
Khumat - An affordable titan that forces a morale save on every hit? Sign me up.
Shuluth, Archvillain - A durable commander with nasty commander effect and tech abilities. Will definately see some use.
Zakya Rakshasa - Yet another 30-40 point LE beater. Good choice with DC's and Chraals.
Orc Wardrummer - 'Nuff said.
Troglodyte Thug - A fairly durable source of stench, might use one. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 7:43 PM |
| I'm putting money on the Elemental Wall. The ability to create an actual wall for a couple turns could really be game altering.Sacred Watcher as LG's first undead is interesting too.Dragonne will work great in Greenfang warbands dishing out a good bit of damage for their cost as does the Fiendish Girillon.Wemic Barbarian is quite solid too.Inspiring Lieutenant's psionic spell is interesting. Kill your own fodder and heal her up. Ogre War Hulk with melee reach and whirlwind attack will be nice. Could seriously dish out some major damage in a stacked up melee situation.Shuluth's CFX is rude, can you say AoO all over the place? Night Hag begs for some play being invisible she can go anywhere on the board.Trog Thug is very solid for 11 points.Terror Wight has the potential for a lot of fun.
All in all a very nice set.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Uthanak
Skirmisher
19 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 7:49 PM |
| | Wow, people seem to be forgetting about arcane ballista. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 7:54 PM |
| The Ballista is very expensive. Yes it can deal out a lot of damage at range but it also requires a spellcaster adjacent to be able to do anything. That's a lot of points placed in one place to shoot once. And if it doesn't have a target it has to move and can't shoot. It'll be reasonable in 500/epic levels but 200 point warbands will be putting way too many eggs in one basket to use it.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid
Keep in mind that the spellcaster could be a 6 point Lidda. Or a backfield commander.
It doesn't matter. Anything that can base the ballista renders it totally useless. It can't move away and shoot, so it moves away at speed 4, and you just base it again. Flyers are a huge problem for it. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:12 PM |
| As someone said before, I still think the Frienzed Berserkers outshine both of the new CG hitters. The Wemic is CLOSE to an FB, but without magic damage that could hurt alot. You can get the Bravado off by smacking some weakling tho..Might be worth it.
My list:
Mephling Pyromancer
Warforged Barbarian
Zakya Rakshasa
Orc Wardrummer (Duh!)
Shuluth, Archvillain
Combat Medic
Aspect of Hextor
Dragon Totem Hero (Epic play mostly) | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
"Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!"
Champion of the Frost Salamander | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid
Keep in mind that the spellcaster could be a 6 point Lidda. Or a backfield commander.
It doesn't matter. Anything that can base the ballista renders it totally useless. It can't move away and shoot, so it moves away at speed 4, and you just base it again. Flyers are a huge problem for it.
This is definitely one to watch. It accomplishes what people have been saying LG needs...a way to force opponents to come to them. We'll have to see... | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
Have/Want List
Reference thread
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:46 PM |
| #4 Axe Soldier, C. LG, 13 pts., lvl. 4 Humanoid-Human, Spd. 4, AC 20, 40HP. Melee Att: +8 (10 magic). Special: Cleave. Close-Order Fighter +5 (Melee damage +5 whenever 2 or more allies are adjacent to this creature). Squad Activation (All creatures in your warband named Axe Soldier must activate as a single activation)
It could be looked at as a 39 point, 3x +8 Attack, 10 (or 15) Magic damage, 20 AC, 120 HP fig for LG. Only more flexible - it can supply it's own Flanking for one. And the ability to do more with a single activation is so uncommon that it's yet to be fully explored.
Maybe not game changing, but the multi-move and attack ability with a single activation on a cheap figure could have an impact. | |
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TruNutral88
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:53 PM |
| | Yeah they'd shine alot in 100pt and will be decent in 200pt too. Might have to try that out. | |
Champion of Bruenor Battlehammer | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 8:57 PM |
| Shuluth is just begging for some duergar champs...that is a truly nasty commander effect.
the khumat (sp, large croc thing) looks interesting as well, lots of damage, and the moral save bite is a great effect, watch the orc champs run!
The hill giant commander (can't recall the name) is an interesting piece as well, +10 AC is nothing to joke about, and I could see running this guy in epic along with a wardrummer for the save bonus and a few huges...save 14 AC 42 Nightwalker here we come! | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 10:40 PM |
| | The warforged scout will be in every LG warband from here on out as long as there are assault points to be had. 8 pts for a 35 hp hiding scout? Yes please. Far better than using a timberwolf to tile grab. | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 02/22/2006 10:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by rhane
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid
Keep in mind that the spellcaster could be a 6 point Lidda. Or a backfield commander.
It doesn't matter. Anything that can base the ballista renders it totally useless. It can't move away and shoot, so it moves away at speed 4, and you just base it again. Flyers are a huge problem for it.
This is definitely one to watch. It accomplishes what people have been saying LG needs...a way to force opponents to come to them. We'll have to see...
Good point about the making LG getting the 'come and get us' piece. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1896 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 11:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
#4 Axe Soldier
...
Maybe not game changing, but the multi-move and attack ability with a single activation on a cheap figure could have an impact.
Add an Earth Shugenja for even more damage output.
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 02/22/2006 11:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
It doesn't matter. Anything that can base the ballista renders it totally useless. It can't move away and shoot, so it moves away at speed 4, and you just base it again. Flyers are a huge problem for it.
But if you play the ballista aren't you going to put it behind a shield wall of phalanx soldiers or the like? If the ballista is being based, I think you have essentially lost the game already. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 02/23/2006 12:08 AM |
| I think one Piece that could be used widely is the Brass samurai
Whirlwind attack on an Aok anyone? or Frenzies with whirlwind would also be mighty powerful.
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 02/23/2006 12:11 AM |
| | steelheart archer at bad either! | |
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Completed trades:Nixlord,Lexander , DarkFather x2 ,minotoman38 x2, Mojoical, Smilin Irish, Smithmeg, Bugsy, Doone, gmd316,Bossman.Dargoth
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shemnon
Warrior
279 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 1:02 AM |
| Brass Samurai (the brass monkey) is my vote for the suprise winner.
My number crunching shows it dishing about the same amount of damage on average (not just on a full attack) as the Helmed Horror or Hill giant Barbarian. (HGB kicks the brass monkey on just full attacks though).
HP to cost isn't that great, but is easily offset by the 20 points of line 12 fire damage at dc 15.
Oh yea, I almost forgot, it's also Commander 3 (respectable for CG) with a CFX that is just waiting to be abused by Bezerkers and various Barbarians (Wemic, Warforged, and Half-Ogre oh my!) | |
The Miniatures War College -- Advenio paratus. Egressus melior paratus. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 2:19 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by rhane
quote:
Originally posted by IanB
quote:
Originally posted by nycfarmkid
Keep in mind that the spellcaster could be a 6 point Lidda. Or a backfield commander.
It doesn't matter. Anything that can base the ballista renders it totally useless. It can't move away and shoot, so it moves away at speed 4, and you just base it again. Flyers are a huge problem for it.
This is definitely one to watch. It accomplishes what people have been saying LG needs...a way to force opponents to come to them. We'll have to see...
Thing is that it's so slow that on a lot of maps it might not have a target for several turns. And when it finally does the big melee will have engaged and it'll be shooting into cover and melee. Cutting it's ranged attack bonus to +8 essentially. I can see this perhaps being used in epic games because you can field a couple and have a lot more open space to shoot. Still once melee is engaged it'll take as much luck if not even more to hit anything. I can picture it being annoying at times and somewhat amusing to use but not tier 1.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Zyla
Underboss
1191 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 2:25 AM |
| | You can combo the brass samurai with the Dark Travaler, since it gives everything melee reach 2 | |
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One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 02/23/2006 3:02 AM |
| | Not Sure quite how good it is, but two Draggonnes with A GFD could be nice, since the breath weapon combinned with magic fang will jump them to +13/+8 for 20 magic. You could add the funny new CG beastmaster too, for 25 magic. | |
Thousands of Zulu's, behind You!
Proud member of PK's team low tier beasting; CG for ever!
Champion of the Dragon Disciple | |
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Compasmasternecro
Skirmisher
22 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 3:06 AM |
| | Its so sad looking at the new pyromancer, since he can be brought into LG by the Quatal, is very scarry, also that he can give a mounted paladin flying so he can actually ride by attack and not die makes him something to watch out for in the Lg builds. Also both the Brass Samurai and the Dragon Totem Guy have very strong abilites, Just think of a AOK with whirlwind attack, or bringing in a LRD, or MBD into Cg where they can be given even more support, And lets not forget the Aspect of Hextor the highest damage out put 200 point legal figure for LE whom is a incredible titan piece, this will be a interesting March I do say | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 3:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zyla
You can combo the brass samurai with the Dark Travaler, since it gives everything melee reach 2
They are both commanders so that doesn't work.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Zyla
Underboss
1191 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 4:04 AM |
| | It will stack on followers, because its giving 2 seperate effects. Thus a follower under command by a Brass Samurai and the Dark Traveler will get the benefit of both commander effects as they are not doing the same thing. | |
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 7:44 PM |
| One of the most significant abilities, in this case a spell:
Mephling Pyromancer
Fly(touch; target creatures gains Flight, speed F8).
Few spells give other figure's significant abilities, probably because it would be damned difficult to ensure that such spells wouldn't be overpowered. This spell is huge - any CG figure can realistically be given F8 Speed. Actually, any figure that can be brought into a CG warband can. Actually, any LG warband with a Couatl can also include this spell. Unlike other times this is being introduced on a piece that is usable even without using this spell, and is well within the cost of inclusion in almost any viable warband.
I think this will have great impact on the game. | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 7:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
One of the most significant abilities, in this case a spell:
Mephling Pyromancer
Fly(touch; target creatures gains Flight, speed F8).
Few spells give other figure's significant abilities, probably because it would be damned difficult to ensure that such spells wouldn't be overpowered. This spell is huge - any CG figure can realistically be given F8 Speed. Actually, any figure that can be brought into a CG warband can. Actually, any LG warband with a Couatl can also include this spell. Unlike other times this is being introduced on a piece that is usable even without using this spell, and is well within the cost of inclusion in almost any viable warband.
I think this will have great impact on the game.
Probably the one piece that gets the most value out of gaining flight is unfortunately a bit too expensive of a combo to use - the mounted paladin. Mounted Paladin + Mephling + Couatl leaves you only 24 points for your remaining 5 activations. Adding the standardbearer for monk protection takes you to 14 for 4, so I guess the band ends up as:
Mounted Paladin
Couatl
Mephling Pyromancer
Standardbearer
Hill Dwarf x2
Man at Arms x2
Not exactly the sturdiest warband out there. Alternately you can do 7 activations and include the studly warforged scout instead of the dwarves. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 02/23/2006 8:20 PM |
| I can't wait to try the mephling pyromancer out in skirmish. Would it make a Roper viable (via GFD)? Probably not, though the thought of a roper with F8 speed fills me with joy.
Arcane Ballista could also benefit from the effect, combined with a Couatl. It would make the ballista able to move up to 16 squares, then you can move the couatl and use snake's swiftness to snipe. That might give the ballista more longevity.
Hmm...what other figures would benefit from speed F8? Hmm...Frenzied Berserkers are a possibility. It would make Skullclan Hunters viable. | | | |
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1896 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 8:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zyla
It will stack on followers, because its giving 2 seperate effects. Thus a follower under command by a Brass Samurai and the Dark Traveler will get the benefit of both commander effects as they are not doing the same thing.
Regarding combining the Commander effects, Guy posted on the Wotc boards that this will not work, due to the new definition of Whirlwind Attack in the War Drums glossary.
I'm assuming this mean that Whirlwind Attack will now always be "within this creature's melee reach" but that it will only allow Melee Reach for creatures that have the Melee Reach ability printed on the stat card.
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 8:47 PM |
| The warbound impaler is a game changer to me. The (epic) Aspect of Hextor is freekin crazy. Here are my picks right her in the format I think they will be the most effective in:
100 pt:
Axe Soldier
200 pt:
Zakya Rakshasa
Khumat
Warbound Impaler
Aspect of Moradin
Aspect of Hextor
Shuluth
Warduke
Wemic Barbarian
Mephling Pyromancer
Warforged Scout
Sand Giant
Arcanix Guard
Ogre Warhulk
Brass Samurai
Epic:
Aspect of Moradin
Aspect of Hextor
Warduke
Dragon Totem Hero
Shuluth
Wartroll
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Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
Squire of Death Giants
Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
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Balrog
Sneak
169 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 8:52 PM |
| | epic aspect of hextor would be much stronger in a nother faction, and hes really missing something as of now. hes fantastic except for the 150 Hp. | |
I <3 Orcs.... what does that say about me?
Champion of Raistlin Majere with Epic card
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JohnnyFive
Warrior
207 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 9:31 PM |
| Just a few thoughts on some of the pieces I think will make some metagame splash in the early days after War Drums:
Warbound Impaler-
My first instincts tell me that the Warbound Impaler might be Tier 1 material, just because of all that you manage to get at a reasonable cost.
Warforged Scout-
A decent tile-grabber for LG. Not good for much else, but these days, sometimes it's all you need.
Warforged Barbarian-
To paraphrase another post I made about this fella, I like the fact that he's a CG hitter who actually has a decent AC. Being able to deal 5 damage to an adjacent creature right off the bat isn't that bad, either. He might not be the most popular hitter in CG, but he'll definitely see some use.
Dragon Totem Hero-
It's sure nice that CG has some decent dragons now. But it's even nicer now that you can have a single Xen'Drik deal 30 damage in a round. He'll definitely see some use with all the XC warbands around these days. A real contender for Tier 1 status.
Brass Samurai-
What's with all the talk of using the Dark Traveler? There's already a reasonable CG beater with Melee Reach 2: the Half-Ogre Barbarian. You're welcome. =)
Orc Wardrummer-
Expect to see a lot of dual-Wardrummer builds in CE. One to give your troops the +4 to morale, another to either reduce opponents' morale checks or to provide Countersong. Stupid orcs. =)
Shuluth, Archvillain-
Most everyone likes this guy. Not really sure where he'll fall in when it comes to building a LE warband around him. Chraals? Duergars? Helmed Horrors? I'd probably start looking behind door #3, but who knows?
Hill Giant Barbarian-
I wonder what people will start saying after their HGB gets nerfed by a Ray of Enfeeblement? I'm just not sure that either his save or his attack bonus are really high enough to invest that many points into him.
Elemental Wall-
This piece could be really useful in the right hands. It could be crippling to form a wall at the right moment to cut off units from commanders or support ...
Mephling Pyromancer-
The second coming of the Elf Pyro ... I like it. He's got a decent AC, and the opportunity to cast not one but two fireballs. To paraphrase Jerry Lee Lewis, "goodness gracious"!!
Steelheart Archer-
Might see some use with the Nentyar Hunter. And that's probably about it, sadly.
Zakya Rakshasa-
He might be a good support piece for your Beholder warband, especially since he's so handy at getting rid of undead. | |
Champion of the Elf Duskblade | |
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Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 02/23/2006 10:53 PM |
| Ok here's my take.
Orc Wardrummer--obviously freekin' nasty. I'm most worried for LE, who likes having that morale advantage. CG, CE, and even "gith-ified" LG shouldn't have too much problem removing him, however, it will always be with a more costly unit, so the wardrummer still provides a valuable addition.
Warforged Scout--another "duh" piece, kinda like a LG, map approved, mongrelfolk.
Brass Samurai--I like this piece alot, if for no other reason than it makes those Half Ogres seem cooler. He'll also work with the Aok, and even the Half-giant psychic. That, combined with a reasonable cost, and melee ability, plus a BW, he seems neat. However, it's doutful that he'll even come close to replacing the IM.
Mephling Pyromancer--He's good in CG, but he'll be better in LG. Area damage has never been LG's strong point, and neither has speed--he can address both.
Warforged Barbarian--A considerally more durable alternative to the FB, however, he lacks the damage, fearless quality, speed, and deathstrike that make the FB so crazy. He'll definately be useful if a more defensive variant of CG comes into power. Maybe with the Archmage?
Wemic Barbarian--Reasonable AC, better than FB speed, and a chance at fearless? Not too bad. I think you'll see this guy occasionally. That extra speed can mean alot, and +2 on attacks seems to be getting more valuable all the time.
Aspect of Hextor--I'm still not entirely convinced of the ability of any titan, but he's still pretty close to the mark. His cost makes me think it's workable.
Aspect of Moradin--Another solid titan. If you're gonna spend that much on a critter, it's nice for him to be a commander. He also hits reliably, hard, and better when standing next to a wall. He's head and shoulders above the Sand Giant, even if he costs more. His commander effect is kinda "eh," but it will probably find some use with the lower point critters in a WB.
Large Duergar--Yep, he's slow, and large, but he can deal 20 damage some of the time, and is costed where I want him to be.
Shluuth--As much as I hate to admit it, he's pretty swank, when taken as a whole. His commander effect is excellent, and he's durable, with a stun cone every round. Plus a commander 5. Not really a steal for 65pts, but still quite alot for the cost.
Zakya Rakshasa--Another solid entry into what LE can choose as a beater. I wish his save was better, but his laundry list of special abilities make me like him.
Hill Giant Barbarian--Great Titan, even with his shortcommings.
Quaggoth Slave--Anyone else think he's a steal in non-orc WBs for 10pts?
Tiefling Blademaster--Been discussed elsewhere, but a very reasonable commander for cost.
There are also alot of "almost" critters in this set, but alot of them seem to have generally superior alternates from previous sets. I like Obould, but I like the Lich necro better. Snig, worg rider? Doesn't do enough for the cost increase, and for pure activation control, old snig's better. | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 02/23/2006 11:56 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
There are a ton of creatures that would be amusing with a F8 speed, and not just the Mounted Paladin. Personally, I want to give it to the Champion of Yondalla. Take that you halfling-haters!
[:D] Clay Golem with wings anyone? | |
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 12:00 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Balduran I
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
There are a ton of creatures that would be amusing with a F8 speed, and not just the Mounted Paladin. Personally, I want to give it to the Champion of Yondalla. Take that you halfling-haters!
[:D] Clay Golem with wings anyone?
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