| | | | | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
    
 | | 02/24/2006 8:56 AM |
| quote:
Number: 15
Name: Brass Samurai
Faction: CG
Cost: 56
Commander Rating: 4
Level: 9
Speed: 6
AC: 16
Hit Points: 70
Melee: +13/+13/+8 (10 magic +5 fire)
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Commander FX: Followers gain Whirlwind Attack (On its turn, if this creature moves no more than 1 square, it can make a separate melee attack against each enemy creature within its Melee Reach)
Special: Breath Weapon [] (Replaces attacks; line 12; 20 fire damage; DC 15); Resist Fire 5
Rarity: U
Pros: Excellent commander effect. This will really fluctuate in sealed. A high damage, single attack figure with melee reach (like the War Troll) would love to follow this commander in sealed. Even those nasty bugbears that hit for 30 would enjoy the chance to swing more than once. This should be a commander effect that changes how your opponent moves his pieces, and that's usually a good thing.
Useful breath weapon, decent attacks, good saves, good CR. Resist fire 5 is useful with all the fire spells in the set.
Cons: Low HP to Cost ratio and poor AC. In sealed, the commander effect doesn't do much for some of the big, multi-attacking units. It's rare that Hextor would benefit from Whirlwind attack.
quote:
Number: 16
Name: Dragon Totem Hero
Faction: CG
Cost: 58
Commander Rating: 3
Level: 9
Speed: 8
AC: 15
Hit Points: 100
Melee: +12/+7 (15 Magic)
Type: Humanoid (Human)
Commander FX: Followers that start their turn within 6 squares gain Combat Rush (If this creature moves 2 or fewer squares, it can use all its melee attacks).
Special: WARBAND BUILDING: Dragons of any faction are legal in your warband. Dragonmaster 10 (As Beastmaster, but Dragons only). Immune Flanking. Resist Acid 5. Resist Fire 15
Rarity: R
Pros: A fast, solid commander who is good in combat and grants a useful Commander effect. Resist fire 15 is very nice. Good HP and save. In sealed, unlike the Samurai, you want this guy to pair with an Aspect of Hextor or Dragon or even a HGB.
Cons: Low AC. Fairly costly to fit into a band.
quote:
Number 17
Name: Dragonne
Faction: CG
Cost: 36
Level: 9
Speed: F7
AC: 18
Hit Points: 75
Melee: +12/+7 (10)
Special: Flight; Blind-Fight; Pounce (This creature can use all its melee attacks when charging); Predatory Roar [] (replaces attacks; cone; creatures whose name contains Dragonne get damage +10 against affected creatures)
Rarity: R
Pros: Good speed, level, HP, and reasonable accuracy.
Cons: Blindfight isn't quite as useful in this sealed set, and the Predatory Roar requires wasting an activation to set up for the next round when it's probably too late to pounce anyway. The damage just isn't good, and it wastes time setting up greater damage. I don't think this unit will be used in Constructed, and, it's only a moderate threat in Sealed at best.
quote:
Number: 18
Name: Halfling Slinger
Faction: CG
Cost: 12
Level: 2
Speed: 4
AC: 16
Hit Points: 15
Melee: +3 (5)
Ranged: +7/+7 (5 magic)
Type: Small Humanoid (Halfling)
Special: Mobility (+4 AC against attacks of opportunity); Short-Range +10 (Ranged attack +10 against targets within 6 squares)
Rarity: C
Pros: Fires off a lot of magic sling stones, and is very accurate at short range.
Cons: Is one hit from death, slow, and basing it with any reasonably accurate unit will stop the sling bullets. I don't see this figure paying for itself too often.
quote:
Number: 19
Name: Hunting Cougar
Faction: CG
Cost: 9
Level: 5
Speed: 8
AC: 15
Hit Points: 40
Melee: +5 (5)
Type: Animal
Special: Natural Soul (Melee attack +2 and melee damage +5 when under command by a commander with Beastmaster)
Rarity: C
Pros: With a beastmaster, this unit is a great choice. For it's cost, it has a good level, good HP, and it becomes very accurate and does reasonable damage. If GFD bands solidly break into competitive play, the cougar should be part of the band.
Cons: The only reason to use this without a beastmaster is if you need an assault point grabber in sealed.
quote:
Number: 20
Name: Lion of Talisd
Faction: CG
Cost: 51
Commander Rating: 3
Level: 7
Speed: 6
AC: 17
Hit Points: 50
Melee: +8 (10 magic)
Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Commander FX: Animal followers get melee damage +5
Special: Beastmaster 7; Fearless
Spells: 2nd-cat's grace [][] (touch; +2 AC, ranged attack +2); 3rd-cure moderate wounds [][][] (touch; heal 10 hp); 4th-flame strike [] (sight; radius 2; 30 fire damage; DC 16)
Rarity: U
Pros: I like R2 area spells. You have a lot of control over what it hits when targeting a medium foe, even in a tight, combat situation. The commander effect is solid (Hunting Cougar becomes quite nasty), spells are good, and I like "fearless".
There are a few units in sealed that would like the buffing spells more than others... like pushing the War Troll's AC to 26 while adding accuracy to his bow shots.
Cons: 50 HP, crap AC. At 51 points, he won't likely see much Constructed play. Even in Sealed, there are probably better ways to spend your points in many situations.
quote:
Number: 21
Name: Mephling Pyromancer
Faction: CG
Cost: 38
Level: 7
Speed: 6
AC: 18
Hit Points: 40
Melee: +8 (5 magic)
Type: Small Outsider
Special: Melee Sneak Attack +5
Sorcerer Spells: 1st-[][][] lesser orb of acid (rage 6; 5 acid damage, ignore Spell Resistance), lesser orb of fire (range 6; 5 fire damage, ignore Spell Resistance). 3rd-[][] fireball (sight; radius 4; 20 fire damage; DC 15) fly (touch; target creatures gains Flight, speed F8)
Rarity: U
Pros: Two fireballs OR make one of your slow beaters into a fast, flying beater. Has the option of doing acid damage up close. Decent save. In sealed, it could be a game turning event to be able to put Fly 8 on another slow but solid hitter that you might have pulled. (and still get one fireball and some other spells)
Cons: In constructed, the big advantage of the less expensive Elf Pyromancer is that it can make units immune and resistant to a key energy type on the other side of the board. Maps make it tougher to take advantage of first round fireballs anyway, and a lot of warbands have solid fire resistance.
In sealed, there are a lot of fire resistant units and one of the maps provides access to energy resistance.
quote:
Number: 22
Name: Steelheart Archer
Faction: CG
Cost: 15
Level: 4
Speed: 6
AC: 17
Hit Points: 35
Melee: +7 (10)
Ranged: +9 (10 magic)
Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Special: Coordinated Shot (This Creature's ranged attacks ignore cover from its allies). Precise Shot (Whenever this creature shoots into melee, the defender doesn't get the AC bonus
Rarity: U
Pros: At first glance, looks inferior to the Elf Stalker... but this is the first archer to shoot right into a full melee scrum without taking either -4 penalty to hit. 10 Magic damage from one arrow is great for moving and firing. It's not even that bad in melee if it gets based by a similar cost unit. Should get at least some consideration for sealed and even for certain constructed bands. If scoot-n-shoot ever gets off the ground, this unit will be there with it.
Cons: Doesn't hide. Lowish save. Not as good as the Graycloak or Stalker BEFORE your allied units get in the way.
quote:
Number: 23
Name: Warbound Impaler
Faction: CG
Cost: 52
Level: 6
Speed: 6
AC: 19
Hit Points: 125
Melee: +14/+14 (10 + Impale)
Type: Large Plant
Special: Impale (Paralysis, smaller creatures only, expires at end of target creature's next turn; DC 17)
Rarity: R
Pros: Look at all those HP on a "plant" type! Decent AC... accurate and can cause two saves against paralysis each round.
At least in sealed, where there aren't too many tough foes immune to paralysis, I could see this unit negating them quite a bit. Paired with some of those cheaper, harder hitting orcs or bugbear, and timed right, the paralysis could be quite effective.
Cons: 10 pts of non-magic damage isn't much for a quarter of your warband. Rather poor saves.
quote:
Number: 24
Name: Warforged Barbarian
Faction: CG
Cost: 49
Level: 7
Speed: 6
AC: 18
Hit Points: 85
Melee: +14/+9 (20 magic)
Type: Construct (Living Construct)
Special: Bloody Rage 5 (Whenever this creature activates, 1 target adjacent enemy immediately takes 5 damage). DR 5 (Takes 5 less damage from nonmagical melee and ragned attacks). Living Construct (Has only Immune Level Drain, Paralysis, Poison, Sleep)
Rarity: R
Pros: Accurate & fairly hard hitting. Good immunities. DR can be useful in sealed more than constructed.
At first glance, this unit looks slightly disappointing, but, I'm a little confused about Bloody Rage. If it's the case where you can hit something for 20 or 40, but target a different adjacent unit for an automatic 5 damage (which I assume is magic too), then this unit has a very efficient way of eliminating enemies.
A lot of times, you lack a cheap way of cleaning that extra 5pts off of an enemy before a morale save or a death. If this figure is paired with a Frenzied Berserker, and the Berserker hits a Duergar Champ for 30, then the Warforged Barbarian might just choose to hit the Duergar for an automatic 5, causing a morale check and, even if the check is passed, the FB can kill the Duergar in one hit.
There are always cases where you wish you could do 5 extra damage to a nearby unit... and I'm a big fan of not wasting damage on overkill if I can help it, applying all the damage possible to actual HP with the goal of eliminating units whenever possible.
Ok... that was long. I guess time will tell on this guy, and I don't know if I'm interpreting the Bloody Rage correctly.
Cons: He costs a few points too much for what he does as far as I can guess at this point. Sure, a FB can be paralyzed, but this guy can be routed, which is a lot more common. He might be worth it in those builds where you want 3 extra pts for that one last activation. Do you trade a bit of AC and Warforged immunities for Fearless and Death Strike? Probably not.
quote:
Number: 25
Name: Wemic Barbarian
Faction: CG
Cost: 53
Level: 8
Speed: 10
AC: 17
Hit Points: 85
Melee: +16/+11 (25)
Type: Large Monstrous Humanoid
Special: Bravado (When an enemy creature fails a morale save, this creature gains Fearless unless already routing)
Rarity: R
Pros: Fast, accurate, hard hitting. Both this, and the warforged barbarian, are at least decent pulls for Sealed.
Cons: Large without reach. The AC doesn't really help it all that much. Bravado is iffy. I'd never choose this miniature instead of a Frenzied Berserker or even Warforged Barbarians.
quote:
Number: 26
Name: Wood Elf Ranger
Faction: CG
Cost: 23
Level: 5
Speed: 6
AC: 16
Hit Points: 35
Melee: +10/+9 (10 magic/5 magic)
Type: Humanoid (Elf)
Special: Hunter +5 (Melee damage +5 unless more than 1 enemy is adjacent); Orc Foe (Damage +5 against Orc enemies)
Rarity: C
Pros: Average at just about everything, and sure, it's nice if you smash a few orcs.
Cons: How easily does this melee fighter offer your opponent 26 points? You put this guy on the table, and your opponent's mouth starts salivating and they picture the Point Total where the elf's head used to be. Obviously, I'm not a fan of this glass-orc-only- cannon.
---ANY---
quote:
Number: 27
Name: Gulgar
Faction: Any
Cost: 47
Level: 10
Speed: 4
AC: 21
Hit Points: 75
Melee: +14/+9 (15)
Ranged: +7/+2 (10)
Type: Large Monstrous Humanoid
Special: DR 5 (Takes 5 less damage from non-magical melee and ranged attacks); Immune Sonic; Melee Reach 2; Powerful Charge +10 (Melee damage +10 when charging); Sonic Pulse [] (Replaces Attacks; cone; 10 sonic damage)
Rarity: R
Pros: A lot of stats are above average. Wide range of abilities and immunities. Looks like there isn't a save vs the cone.
In sealed, if you run a the new Pyromancer, this mini is a good candidate for that "fly" (speed 8) spell... at least you're more likely to use the powerful charge and get into place to use the cone.
Cons: Speed four, walking, on a large base. No magic damage. All in all, a lot of abilities that you'll never get to use. This mini most likely won't pay for itself.
---BEST CG MINIS IN THE SET---
- Hunting Cougar
- Steelheart Archer
- Dragon Totem Hero
- Warforged Barbarian
- Mefling Pyromancer
- Brass Samurai
- Warbound Impaler
I'm not sure which of these will see a lot of common high level play, but they'll at least get some test drives.
| |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| 
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/24/2006 9:10 AM |
| I'm thinking Epic Elminster bands with Mephling Pyromancers just got a little cooler. I mean, the Elf Pyro is nice, especially for the immunity to an energy type (Elminster immune to fire is nice against both HGD and HRD). But, having everything in the band quickly gain flight is very impressive as well.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Sean-Khan
Commander
2720 Posts
| |
Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 1:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
I'm thinking Epic Elminster bands with Mephling Pyromancers just got a little cooler. I mean, the Elf Pyro is nice, especially for the immunity to an energy type (Elminster immune to fire is nice against both HGD and HRD). But, having everything in the band quickly gain flight is very impressive as well.
Dave
And getting an Elf Pyro is a pain these days too... Mephling is an uncommon, yei! | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
|
Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 1:52 PM |
| The Warforged Barbarian is tres cool, but maybe a little late. A common fodder tactic was always to block your commander or hitter off with a 5 HP putz that you had to waste your attack on in order to engage. No longer so, with this cat, but 5 HP fodder is less prevalent now too.
I'm liking the Wemic too. An FB/Wemic/Warforged Barbarian combo looks pretty versatile. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
| |
|
sienar
Sergeant
640 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 1:55 PM |
| | On the Steelheart Archer. Allowing your bruisers to get in the way totally changes the complexion on *how* you can manage your ranged attackers and beaters. I really like what she brings to the table. You can cover the corridor AS your units move in to strike, and not before or on a different corridor. Time will tell if it is enough. | |
[http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user_id=22] | |
|
sienar
Sergeant
640 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 2:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
The Warforged Barbarian is tres cool, but maybe a little late. A common fodder tactic was always to block your commander or hitter off with a 5 HP putz that you had to waste your attack on in order to engage. No longer so, with this cat, but 5 HP fodder is less prevalent now too.
I'm liking the Wemic too. An FB/Wemic/Warforged Barbarian combo looks pretty versatile.
I've seen enough games won and lost due to a high value figure clinging to 5 hp to think that this ability is really worth it.
I like the Wemic, too. My first thought about taking a tri-Frenzied Beserker band and making it more versatile was Warbound Impaler/Frenzied Bezerker/(Wemic or Warforged Barbarian)... | |
[http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user_id=22] | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:01 PM |
| Done.
As for the Wemic... I just don't see paying more points for it than a Frenzied Berserker. It has Less HP, it's AC isn't going to stop many hits (so why have it), less damage, non-magic damage, and may or may not end up being fearless.
Large base creatures without Reach are a pain too.
Still, I'd use a wemic in Sealed. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 02/24/2006 3:02 PM |
| I'm looking forward to a warband that's Nentyar Hunter, 3 Steelhearts, and several melee blockers (including the Wemic). You could safely do up to 60 points of damage per round, starting across the board. It might make archers viable again.
One thing not mentioned about the mephling is that it can be brought into LG with the Couatl. LG even more than CG can benefit from access to fireball and fly (you could target your own units near a couatl with the fireball, and they'd take only 10 or zero damage while your enemies take 20 or 10, for example). | | | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:10 PM |
| That's a great point about the Couatl...
Also, imagine putting Fly 8 on something like a PDK or some other old unit that kept losing ground in competitive formats due to slow speed, but otherwise good abilities.
| |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
One thing not mentioned about the mephling is that it can be brought into LG with the Couatl. LG even more than CG can benefit from access to fireball and fly (you could target your own units near a couatl with the fireball, and they'd take only 10 or zero damage while your enemies take 20 or 10, for example).
The problem here is cost. You're going to need to spend 104 points BEFORE adding any melee beef. With the Orc Wardrummer, you need a Commander 5 if at all possible just to have a positive effect, which means Cleric of Order. 95 points for beef in a non-beefy faction? Going to break out the Stonchildren and hope they don't get hit and roll 20s? Nice thought, just unlikely for good execution. If the Soldiers of Thrane had Phalanx Fighting, this could have been interesting maybe.... | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
| |
|
Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by YRM_DM
Done.
As for the Wemic... I just don't see paying more points for it than a Frenzied Berserker. It has Less HP, it's AC isn't going to stop many hits (so why have it), less damage, non-magic damage, and may or may not end up being fearless.
Think outside the box, my friend. 85 HP is the same as the Berserker (or a little better, actually), because that's what they'll usually enter combat with after two burnout rounds. It has a betetr attack bonus (+2 on both, which is BIG on the second attack with so many 22+ ACs floating these days), but does still need a MW from somewhere. That +7 AC is also big against secondary beater attacks too. Look at how much more often the Red Sam gets hit than the Ravager at a difference of only 3. The Ravager and Justice Archons won't be hitting withe their second attacks nearly as often, needing a 12 vs. a 5.
| |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
| |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:50 PM |
| | The Mephling is cool, but would only be worthwhile in Constructed if it cost maybe 10 points less. As it, you won't be seeing it in any competitive builds. | |
I am not gone. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 3:57 PM |
| The steelheart just might make the nentyar a viable choice, hard to say.
I think you're being too hard on the dragonne. In constructed, consider something along the lines of the following band:
GFD
Dragonne x3
GCR + timber wolf
Aramil
Devis
Wild Elf Raider
There are other combinations, this is just something I threw together quickly. With multiple dragonnes able to cone at different times, you get a lot more milage out of the cone bonus.
With the spell from the GFD, you have them hitting at +13/+8 (20 magic), with flight that allows them to pounce over allies, blind-fight for pesky duergar champs, and a better AC and level than the otherwise fairly comparable goliath barbarian.
You can also do a 7 activation version with 4 dragonnes, or an 8 activation version with less tech with 3 dragonnes and a pegasus or goliath or pyromancer or (hee hee) renegade warlock.
I'm not convinced that it is going to be a tier 1 concept or anything, but I don't see it as a pointless exercise to experiment with, either. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:05 PM |
| Good points about the multiple Dragonne concept.
But even then, considering you have to move within 6" and shoot the cone, instead of doing damage, would it work out?
Even in the best situation, that's giving up a first attack. The opponent can still move units into combat that hadn't been coned, and force more spent activations to bring the Dragonnes up to full power.
This reminds me a bit of that concept where people blended an Inspired Marshall with a ton of Large Air Elementals and just went ape whirlwinding everything in the enemy warband.
Would you actually purchase 3 Dragonnes if you didn't somehow get 3, just to try this concept?
Sure, if you have 3 already, or you're screwing around on Vassal, maybe you try it out for kicks right?
Anyway, one of the bigger reasons I'm making these posts is to teach myself the set, and anything I miss is likely to be caught by someone else. I just hadn't even considered running that band you mentioned. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:09 PM |
| | I might get the 3 Dragonne's just to try the band out. I mean its not like you can't use multiples for the role-playing game. | |
I am not gone. | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by YRM_DM
Done.
As for the Wemic... I just don't see paying more points for it than a Frenzied Berserker. It has Less HP, it's AC isn't going to stop many hits (so why have it), less damage, non-magic damage, and may or may not end up being fearless.
Think outside the box, my friend. 85 HP is the same as the Berserker (or a little better, actually), because that's what they'll usually enter combat with after two burnout rounds. It has a betetr attack bonus (+2 on both, which is BIG on the second attack with so many 22+ ACs floating these days), but does still need a MW from somewhere. That +7 AC is also big against secondary beater attacks too. Look at how much more often the Red Sam gets hit than the Ravager at a difference of only 3. The Ravager and Justice Archons won't be hitting withe their second attacks nearly as often, needing a 12 vs. a 5.
Even considering all of that, I'd still rather take a Warforged Barbarian if I was shooting for a higher AC on a similarly effective unit.
The Wemic is large, with no reach, and that makes it much tougher to run multiples and get to the foes that you'd like to reach.
If the Wemic faces JAs, FBs, or Helmed Horrors, it's not going to be getting the route it needs to become fearless.
And if you just want to block a large gap, why not run the Impaler instead of the Wemic? It has more HP, and will cause most foes to bottleneck with at least a few failed save vs Paralysis.
I'm not saying the Wemic is WAAAAY off. But I don't think it'll get much competitive play.
But hey, "think outside that box" and prove me wrong, that'd be fine with me. I'll be happy to buy a few Wemics if it turns out my review of them was not accurate.
| |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 4:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by YRM_DM
Good points about the multiple Dragonne concept.
But even then, considering you have to move within 6" and shoot the cone, instead of doing damage, would it work out?
Even in the best situation, that's giving up a first attack. The opponent can still move units into combat that hadn't been coned, and force more spent activations to bring the Dragonnes up to full power.
This reminds me a bit of that concept where people blended an Inspired Marshall with a ton of Large Air Elementals and just went ape whirlwinding everything in the enemy warband.
Would you actually purchase 3 Dragonnes if you didn't somehow get 3, just to try this concept?
Sure, if you have 3 already, or you're screwing around on Vassal, maybe you try it out for kicks right?
Anyway, one of the bigger reasons I'm making these posts is to teach myself the set, and anything I miss is likely to be caught by someone else. I just hadn't even considered running that band you mentioned.
I might trade to get them, as there aren't all that many rares I'll want multiple of anyway in this set.
As an aside, I'm still sore about the Lion of Talisid's beastmaster rating being 1 short of what it needs to command dire bears. >< | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11444 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 02/24/2006 4:26 PM |
| | The WFB has a place when compared with the FB. Two strong units come to mind here. The Chraal and the Helmed Horror, which are often run in multiples, are really hurt by the DR. Might not be as good as the FB overall, but still has its use. Also, there's no pressure to get in there quickly without the burnout. I find that I sometimes put myself into a bad situation with the FB, because I want her in the fight before she loses too many HP. And auto damage is well, auto damage - will be much appreciated by all the people out there that tend to roll a lot of 1's. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 02/24/2006 4:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
One thing not mentioned about the mephling is that it can be brought into LG with the Couatl. LG even more than CG can benefit from access to fireball and fly (you could target your own units near a couatl with the fireball, and they'd take only 10 or zero damage while your enemies take 20 or 10, for example).
The problem here is cost. You're going to need to spend 104 points BEFORE adding any melee beef. With the Orc Wardrummer, you need a Commander 5 if at all possible just to have a positive effect, which means Cleric of Order. 95 points for beef in a non-beefy faction? Going to break out the Stonchildren and hope they don't get hit and roll 20s? Nice thought, just unlikely for good execution. If the Soldiers of Thrane had Phalanx Fighting, this could have been interesting maybe....
I'd need to spend 104 points why? The couatl is 42 points, and the mephling 38; that comes to 80 total, leaving 120 points for beef. That could be a flying marut, or you could bring in the Aspect of Kord and keep the 3rd level spells for fireballs, which is nothing to sneeze at. Since the Couatl appears in so many LG bands anyway, really you're spending 38 points for the flexibility of the fireballs and/or fly spells, with a few minor damage backup spells as a kicker.
IMO fly works best with titan builds, since you only want to sacrifice a fireball if the creature gaining fly is important enough to warrant it. It might also work if cast on a slow LG commander, though, or even the Arcane Ballista (though the utility of the AB is rather in doubt).
The mephling has nice synergy with Elminster too, of course. Is he as good as the Elf Pyro? I'd say probably not, just because he doesn't have the energy resistance spells, and the Elf Pyro has more rounds of viable spellcasting. | | | |
|
nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| |
Void
Sneak
156 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 5:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
The Mephling is cool, but would only be worthwhile in Constructed if it cost maybe 10 points less. As it, you won't be seeing it in any competitive builds.
Two fireballs for 28 points looks pretty insane to me. As it is, the pyromancer is a bit overcosted surely, but will nevertheless see competetive builds, at least in LG, just because LG has no other comparable area effect spells.
And of course people without access to Elf Pyromancer will try it out a lot, but that's another thing. | |
| |
|
Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 6:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
One thing not mentioned about the mephling is that it can be brought into LG with the Couatl. LG even more than CG can benefit from access to fireball and fly (you could target your own units near a couatl with the fireball, and they'd take only 10 or zero damage while your enemies take 20 or 10, for example).
The problem here is cost. You're going to need to spend 104 points BEFORE adding any melee beef. With the Orc Wardrummer, you need a Commander 5 if at all possible just to have a positive effect, which means Cleric of Order. 95 points for beef in a non-beefy faction? Going to break out the Stonchildren and hope they don't get hit and roll 20s? Nice thought, just unlikely for good execution. If the Soldiers of Thrane had Phalanx Fighting, this could have been interesting maybe....
I'd need to spend 104 points why? The couatl is 42 points, and the mephling 38; that comes to 80 total, leaving 120 points for beef. That could be a flying marut, or you could bring in the Aspect of Kord and keep the 3rd level spells for fireballs, which is nothing to sneeze at. Since the Couatl appears in so many LG bands anyway, really you're spending 38 points for the flexibility of the fireballs and/or fly spells, with a few minor damage backup spells as a kicker.
IMO fly works best with titan builds, since you only want to sacrifice a fireball if the creature gaining fly is important enough to warrant it. It might also work if cast on a slow LG commander, though, or even the Arcane Ballista (though the utility of the AB is rather in doubt).
The mephling has nice synergy with Elminster too, of course. Is he as good as the Elf Pyro? I'd say probably not, just because he doesn't have the energy resistance spells, and the Elf Pyro has more rounds of viable spellcasting.
You're going to run the Aspectof Kord with the Wardrummer around and commander 0? Yikes. Far braver than I, and I run some pretty techy builds at times. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
| |
|
Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 02/24/2006 6:25 PM |
| No reason the Couatl has to be your only commander. That's why they have Clerics of Order, Yondalla, etc. LG actually has plenty of cheap commanders with higher commander ratings than in CG.
EDIT: How about this sample build?
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
24 Cleric of Order (Cmr 5)
74 Marut
38 Mephling Pyromancer
10 Standardbearer
05 Timber Wolf
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
8 activations, 200 points
or...
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
14 Cleric of Yondalla (Cmr 3)
65 Aspect of Kord
38 Mephling Pyromancer
32 Justice Archon (or 31 Rikka, Angelic Avenger)
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
8 activations, 200 points
In the first warband, you might put a fly on the Marut to give it mobility; in the second, you'll probably use both fireballs on your opponent. | | | |
|
nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
| |
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 02/24/2006 7:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
No reason the Couatl has to be your only commander. That's why they have Clerics of Order, Yondalla, etc. LG actually has plenty of cheap commanders with higher commander ratings than in CG.
EDIT: How about this sample build?
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
24 Cleric of Order (Cmr 5)
74 Marut
38 Mephling Pyromancer
10 Standardbearer
05 Timber Wolf
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
8 activations, 200 points
or...
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
14 Cleric of Yondalla (Cmr 3)
65 Aspect of Kord
38 Mephling Pyromancer
32 Justice Archon (or 31 Rikka, Angelic Avenger)
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
8 activations, 200 points
In the first warband, you might put a fly on the Marut to give it mobility; in the second, you'll probably use both fireballs on your opponent.
Couatl + Mephling + Cleric of Order was how he came up with 104 points in the first place. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Vrecknidj
Warlord
10425 Posts
United States
| | 02/24/2006 8:16 PM |
| As an outsider, the Mephling has some vulnerabilities that a couple other pieces, Good faction if I'm not mistaken, can punish. This brings to mind some excellent uses for them.
Then again, it's probably easier to just hit the thing with a blade.
I'm also of the mind that, in Limited, if you get two Mephlings, it might just be worth the 76 points.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
JohnnyFive
Warrior
207 Posts
| | 02/25/2006 3:27 PM |
| A good analysis, and some great observations by everyone thus far.
My take on the best pieces in CG from War Drums are as follows:
Best Commander:Brass Samurai
She's a little pricier than most of the other Commander 4s in CG, but she's tough, has some good abilities, and I just can't help but like the idea of throwing 3 or 4 Half-Ogre Barbarians in with her just to really punish multiple figures at once. I can't wait to pull one. :)
Best Beater:Too Close To Call
I suppose it's all about your preferences. The Warforged Barbarian has some decent AC, has an interesting set of special abilities, and has pretty reliable attack bonuses.
The Wemic is tough, fast, and can become fearless, which isn't a bad combination at all.
The Warbound Impaler is my sleeper pick for War Drums, however. Plant immunities, Good attack bonuses, and can force 2 relatively tough saves versus paralysis each round (or more if someone's packing a Crow Shaman or Wizard Tactician). Not to mention a ton of HP and a decent AC.
Best Tech:Mephling Pyromancer
Not real sure if anything else on this piece needs to be said. But I'll add pretty decent AC for a spellcaster and good speed as well.
Best Filler/Fodder:Steelheart Archer
She doesn't look like much at first glance, right? But she's actually a pretty decent support piece for a melee-heavy warband. Besides, the Wood Elf Ranger just isn't very good. :) | |
Champion of the Elf Duskblade | |
|
Tactician
Sergeant
888 Posts
| | Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11444 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 02/25/2006 4:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyFive
Best Beater:Too Close To Call
I suppose it's all about your preferences. The Warforged Barbarian has some decent AC, has an interesting set of special abilities, and has pretty reliable attack bonuses.
The Wemic is tough, fast, and can become fearless, which isn't a bad combination at all.
The Warbound Impaler is my sleeper pick for War Drums, however. Plant immunities, Good attack bonuses, and can force 2 relatively tough saves versus paralysis each round (or more if someone's packing a Crow Shaman or Wizard Tactician). Not to mention a ton of HP and a decent AC.
Yes, all three of these seem usable in different situations. As a fan of this faction, I'm glad that CG is getting some decent fighters again. Only time will tell if they can stand up to Gith Monks, Duergar Champions, Chraals, and Helmed Horrors. The plant with its nice paralysis attack won't be very good against the latter three though. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
|
Feathers
Underboss
1140 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 1:51 AM |
| CG still needs a 40 pt beater to really be as versatile as LE or CE. As it is now, great choices around the 30s and 50s, but nothing in the 40s.
Dragonne could be good if paired with GFD for magic weapon.
My main problem with CG is low morale saves, thanks to low level and low commander ratings. 49 is a lot of points to throw into a beater that will rout around 35% of the time. I'm talking about the Warforged Barb here. The easy fearlessness and 10 spd might make the Wemic more viable than the Warbarbie. | |
Champion of Neogi
Completed Trades/Transactions: sttmxn, Krush, jgsugden, Ayrychx2, Venport, Tysac
| |
|
elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 2:07 AM |
| Another thought on whirlwinding: Aspect of Kord and half-ogre barbarians have been mentioned before, but Rikka would be a good recipient for the CE--especially on a map like drow outpost with a shared central victory area where she could waylay into an ideal spot and let loose the whirlwind. (In epic she could even cleave while doing it).
Unfortunately, the half-giant psychic warrior is the only CG follower with Cleave that a quick search through the KB warband generator turned up. He has his good points but probably isn't worth the 42 points even with whirlwind attack.
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyFive
A good analysis, and some great observations by everyone thus far.
My take on the best pieces in CG from War Drums are as follows:
Best Commander:Brass Samurai
She's a little pricier than most of the other Commander 4s in CG, but she's tough, has some good abilities, and I just can't help but like the idea of throwing 3 or 4 Half-Ogre Barbarians in with her just to really punish multiple figures at once. I can't wait to pull one. :)
| |
| |
|
LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 10:01 AM |
| I know its too much tech but I can't help thinking about a whirling Storm Giant in epic. That melee reach 3 for 40 sure sounds good, even better than an epic AoK's smackdown. That extra reach of one is a ton of difference... unless you're stuck in smoke, or a hallway, or in combat, so pretty much never. Come to think of it this is more of a fantasy of effectivness, rather than a reality. While I'm dreaming, I might as well throw in an IM's GMA for optimal positioning. But in that case the epic Kord's sirens song becons....
128 Ghael
056 Brass Samuri
029 IM
208 AoK (epic)
052 Rask
015 Satyr
006 Devis
006 WER
500 @ 8 activations
The Ghael for that +8 initiative and the hope of extra entire activations by Mr. "I went first this round, so I'm still doing 50 damage a hit, no matter how many turns I take" Now to roll yet another crit and get to repeat my ubersmackdown.
A variation on the above:
128 Ghael
056 Brass Samuri
029 IM
208 AoK (epic)
031 Rikka
025 H-O Barb
013 Aramil
010 MAC
500 @ 8 activations
Or replace Aramil + MAC for Asimar + Xeph. Here the Asimar can be of reasonable use with MW for the H-O Barb, Bless, and hope to be close enough to Illuminate. The Sonic Bursts might even kill a fodder or stun a titan. If only the speed and HP's weren't so low... | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/26/2006 7:48 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thenameless
quote:
Originally posted by JohnnyFive
Best Beater:Too Close To Call
I suppose it's all about your preferences. The Warforged Barbarian has some decent AC, has an interesting set of special abilities, and has pretty reliable attack bonuses.
The Wemic is tough, fast, and can become fearless, which isn't a bad combination at all.
The Warbound Impaler is my sleeper pick for War Drums, however. Plant immunities, Good attack bonuses, and can force 2 relatively tough saves versus paralysis each round (or more if someone's packing a Crow Shaman or Wizard Tactician). Not to mention a ton of HP and a decent AC.
Yes, all three of these seem usable in different situations. As a fan of this faction, I'm glad that CG is getting some decent fighters again. Only time will tell if they can stand up to Gith Monks, Duergar Champions, Chraals, and Helmed Horrors. The plant with its nice paralysis attack won't be very good against the latter three though.
Ask yourself this about the Wemic.
Even though it does 25 damage and doesn't "burn out"...
Would you rather have the Wemic or Rask?
We know that Dire Bears have had a problem because they are a large base creature that doesn't have reach.
Rask is medium base, hits very accurately, has a high DC stun, reach, is fast, and doesn't "burn out" either.
If the Wemic makes the cut into a competitive band (which it might), it'll be with something with Magic Weapon, and Rask may end up being paired as a partner to the Wemic to work around that large base. Maybe it's AC really is the difference maker and the Wemic avoiding 2nd attacks will push it over the top. Personally, my gut feeling is that it's just a few points too expensive.
I do like the Warforged Barbarian... that 5 auto-damage ability when he activates is just insanely useful. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
|
YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 02/27/2006 11:53 AM |
| | Hate to do this, but, someone asked if I had a CG review, so I'm bumping this so it's with the other 3 reviews. | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| 
Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 02/28/2006 5:12 AM |
| | Alright, maybe I'm missing something but the GFD's legion's magic fang has a condition of "animals and magic beasts". Does the Dragonne (as a dragon) get in on that? | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
|
Adkainen
49 Posts
| | 02/28/2006 5:29 AM |
| very good examination about the c/g pieces!
Considering this band:
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
24 Cleric of Order (Cmr 5)
74 Marut
38 Mephling Pyromancer
10 Standardbearer
05 Timber Wolf
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
It´s one of the best ones i have seen and more fun to play than usual hitter bands. Just keep the Pyromancer save in round 1-3! | |
| |
|
Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 02/28/2006 5:33 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Adkainen
very good examination about the c/g pieces!
Considering this band:
42 Couatl (Cmr 0)
24 Cleric of Order (Cmr 5)
74 Marut
38 Mephling Pyromancer
10 Standardbearer
05 Timber Wolf
03 Man at Arms
03 Man at Arms
It´s one of the best ones i have seen and more fun to play than usual hitter bands. Just keep the Pyromancer save in round 1-3!
I'm thinking that would be pretty competitive.
And I should say, welcome to maxminis Adkainen. I always wondered when you'd wander over here. | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
|
Aesnath
Underboss
1358 Posts
Augusta, GA
| | 02/28/2006 10:02 AM |
| | Personally, I'd rather have the wemic than rask. Why? Speed 10, chance at fearless, and an AC that doesn't blow. Rask has better attack bonuses (well better attack bonus on the second one), a stun, and reach. With GMA, that speed 10 becomes even nastier. Personally I don't think either the Warforged Barb or Wemic will replace the FB, but I could see either one slipping in as a replacement in tri or dual FB warbands. | |
**Note: Unless otherwise stated all my minis are unbagged**
My reference thread is at: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12765
Graduate school is swollowing my soul!!!!
Champion of the Raumathari Battlemage!
| |
|
| |
|
|
|