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Originally posted by Zaukrie

I don't want to steal the thread on the marut.

Are some of you serious about the ghaele? How do you keep it alive?

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Originally posted by Kypdurron
I played an opponent useing her the other day he also had steelhearts and greycloacks and use the wolves to slow me down it worked quite well until He realised too late that I had a breath weapon which wiped out his fodder screen If not for that It would have been a close thing indeed !

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Originally posted by Zaukrie

I don't want to steal the thread on the marut.

Are some of you serious about the ghaele? How do you keep it alive?

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Originally posted by NightMoor

I think talk about figures like Ghaele Eladrin is a perfect example that the D&D community has become a little bit indulgent in the absence of standard, age-old CE-hitter armies. Back in the old days, when every army had to worry about dealing with something like 3 orc champs and a ravager, no one would dare to even talk about a figure as fragile as Ghaele.

With the recent absence of CE-hitter armies, there's a temptation to get indulgent in figure choices again. What will the Ghaele player do if 3 champs and an Eye run up double, then win initiative (not that uncommon with a Tiefling in tow) and base Ghaele? Ghaele is based, surrounded, and dead meat, and the CE player can even lose 3 hitters and still win by killing her!

Now, in an environment where the majority of bands are Lawful and only tend to do 15 damage, or have titans which are slow and unmaneuverable despite doing plenty of damage, a figure like Ghaele is certainly able to survive a lot better.

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Originally posted by IanB

The biggest current problem I see with the ghaele is the tremendous strike range that HGBs have, combined with the fact that they only need 1 hit to morale check her, 2 to kill, and her chance of failing a morale check is 1 in 4. There are too many ways for that matchup to go wrong for me to feel comfortable bringing one, since I know there will be HGBs around locally.

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

Yeah, there is also the issue of what to do with her if you DON'T get map initiative. Seems a bit too risky in my mind.

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Originally posted by Bert the Troll

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

Yeah, there is also the issue of what to do with her if you DON'T get map initiative. Seems a bit too risky in my mind.

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The teleport temple is bad for her.

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Originally posted by Dagni

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Originally posted by Bert the Troll

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Originally posted by doubtofbuddha

Yeah, there is also the issue of what to do with her if you DON'T get map initiative. Seems a bit too risky in my mind.

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The teleport temple is bad for her.

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Not so sure about that. It's one of only two maps in the game where she can ignore aoos. Yes, there are unique problems she'll have with the map, but unique benefits, too. The Fear gaze is also generally a save or die on that map, too, for all but the slowest enemies or farthest in a corner.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Hougar

As a handler of an experienced Ghaele band I would only like to mention that the inclusion of a Crow Shaman is counter productive for her. Sure the +2 to AC from Cat's Grace is very nice, but that will be the only spell that he can cast "Safely" onto her. The reason you ask?.... she has Gaze Attack ,so when the Crow Shamam tries to Snake Swiftness her he must make a Morale Check in respone to targeting her with a ranged spell. With the Crow Shaman having only a DC 9 against a morale roll that extra attack will more then likely grant your opponent 26 points as the Crow flees off-board(spd8).

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Originally posted by Dagni

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Originally posted by NightMoor

I think talk about figures like Ghaele Eladrin is a perfect example that the D&D community has become a little bit indulgent in the absence of standard, age-old CE-hitter armies. Back in the old days, when every army had to worry about dealing with something like 3 orc champs and a ravager, no one would dare to even talk about a figure as fragile as Ghaele.

With the recent absence of CE-hitter armies, there's a temptation to get indulgent in figure choices again. What will the Ghaele player do if 3 champs and an Eye run up double, then win initiative (not that uncommon with a Tiefling in tow) and base Ghaele? Ghaele is based, surrounded, and dead meat, and the CE player can even lose 3 hitters and still win by killing her!

Now, in an environment where the majority of bands are Lawful and only tend to do 15 damage, or have titans which are slow and unmaneuverable despite doing plenty of damage, a figure like Ghaele is certainly able to survive a lot better.

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Nah, as shown here, most people still don't give Ghaele the time of day, and I've always considered Ghaele worth consideration. True, not quite worth playing, in most metagames, but it's not that she isn't good.

Now, a creature with the best initiative in the game, has arguably a dominant map. She's worth taking a look at right now, though it may end up that still no one ends uup using her.

Your specific example is a pretty good example of something that can't happen to a good Ghaele player. Without some combat taking place, or AT LEAST yet another lucky init roll for CE, the Ghaele player isn't going to activate AND stay within double move of CE hitters before the hitters have gone! Hmm, rereading you could be saying that they activate a second time on the won init just to surround and base Ghaele? Well, among other options, Ghaele can Fear gaze one, if it fails take a single aoo and move away, if it passes take two aoos.

More often, Ghaele can move away with no aoos, due to Forest terrain. Likewise, any player who really has entertained using Ghaele knows that if Ghaele gets 3 hitters by herself CE does NOT come out ahead, because the remaining 76 points of the warband are all anti-CE beaters, now facing fewer beaters. A good example being the Wild Elf Raiders that was mentioned somewhere.

There are so many tactics that can minimize Ghaele's weaknesses and maximize her strengths. But... Ghaele is probably even riskier than an Archmage to play. The fact that most of the things being touted as anti-Marut are anti-Ghaele doesn't help her out any either.

- Dagni

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Originally posted by Dagni



Oh, and I got owned by the Glossary on this issue too. Ghaele with 1 or 2 Crows is so worthwhile otherwise, too!

- Dagni

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