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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
    
United States
 | | 06/01/2006 11:19 AM |
| So,
I'm sure lots of people have thought about this, and I'm sure there are lots of different angles on it, and I'm curious what people have to say.
Sometimes, someone will come on and post something like "Hey, I'm going to a qualifier this weekend, and here are my pieces, what should I play." Sometimes, these people have 1000+ posts, sometimes they have 100+ posts, sometimes they have 10, sometimes they have 2.
In each group, of course, there are all kinds of different posters. Some people have thousands of posts but don't skirmish much. Some people have fewer than a thousand posts, but their posts are like gold for the community (i.e. Dagni).
Sometimes, someone is here briefly, has a double-digit post count, but has been involved with the skirmishing community a long while and just hasn't been precisely *here* much before.
Other times, I think, some people find out about this place, show up, extract in 1 day what has taken teams of others months and months to figure out, and then aren't seen again.
I'm posting this here rather than in general because I'm chiefly interested in how some of the skirmish masters feel about this. I know that not all the secrets are revealed here, and of those that are, I suspect some of them aren't revealed until it's too late to figure out how to deal with them by the next big event.
Curious what everyone's thoughts are, from the old timers, to the non-skirmishers, to the new folks who are happy as can be that they've found this place.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| 2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 11:37 AM |
| I think it's pretty much the nature of internet forums. People come and go, register and post only a few times, or stay for years at a time, depending upon what their other obligations and interests are.
On other boards I personally have gone from being a fixture of the place to never visiting -- my WotC boards name, Fenris_CGA, was chosen because at the time I was heavily involved in the Certified Gamers Alliance -- an online community I haven't been back to in, wow, gotta be two years now. But I'm kinda stuck with the name now, heh.
That kind of thing happens all the time, on forums all over the internet. I don't think it's unusual to find it happening here. | |
Read my championship tournament report.
Successful trades:
xBrendanx | Cha0tic G0od | ThatOneGuy | BrazenWood | Finley | Arris | Drift x2 | Neonmage | Cthulu's Librarian | Kalvos | PatEllis15 | Paradox1995 | Rhane | Gildogg | Darthrau | Vrecknidj x2 | erian_7 | Octavius Drowslayer x2 | stheis | Garate | thenameless | Lucky_ksu | ckissee | Corim Danex | Schooly_D | Username | |
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Gnolaum
Sergeant
855 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 11:42 AM |
| It doens't matter a hill of beans to me. Heck people could even use my whole warband and I wouldn't bat an eye. I'd even hope to play them, because I'd trash them.
Some knowledge can only be earned, it can't be given or taken. | | | |
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 11:45 AM |
| Even thought some people probably do come out here to gather meta information on the status of skirmish, who's better off...the dude that play tested the heck out of something then posted here...has experienced it first hand, or the dude that reads the information and assumes they've mastered something but haven't seen it in action? It's one thing to read about beating a Marut, Sacred Watchers, Frenzied Berserkers, Death Slaads or Helmed Horrors...its another thing to have worked with them and contributed to the community.
Just my opinion probably. | | | |
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Aramus
Warrior
181 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 11:51 AM |
| | unfortunately this happens all the time. Many of the posters, possibly most use these discussion boards to share and trade ideas because the chances of us being able to discuss ideas with players in other areas and metagames would be slim to none. Then as said there will always be a few who are trying to shorten their path to the top. Personally I'd rather be ranked dead last amongst all players than be ranked first if I got there using someone elses ideas/army. Its easier to find a top band and learn all you can about those 6-8 figures than to learn the game thru trial and error. Plus its a collectable game why buy only 8 figures to play in tournaments when you can have them all and play silly but often extremely fun warbands | |
Play and have fun, this hobby is an escape from the harsh realities of life | |
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Urban Druid
Warrior
253 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 11:53 AM |
| It is a valid point, though, that participation in this community will only make mediocre skirmishers better (or at least that's what I'm hoping; why else would I be here...? [:p]).
If you're new to a complex game like DDM, or even if you've played a bit but just lack exposure or a strong local scene, skirmish discussions here can definitely get you started in the right direction.
There's no substitute for practice, of course, but time and resources come more easily to some than to others...
EDIT: Woot! Two stars!! Do I get a cookie now...? [:D] | |
*This post was recorded before a live studio audience* | |
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Zenako
Commander
3472 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 12:16 PM |
| Anyone posting info on these forums clearly expects others to A) learn from it, B) be amused by it, C) be horrified by it, D) intriqued enough to try it out, or E) is just a strange alien from Planet X.
For example I fall into the category of lots of posts, don't skirmish much (or even at all to date in organized play), but I do read many of the general threads just to get a feel for what kind of things are working and what are not. I have this hope of carving out some time to become a player, but time squeezes keep making that tough. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/01/2006 12:21 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zenako
Anyone posting info on these forums clearly ... is just a strange alien from Planet X.
You found me out!quote:
Originally posted by Urban Druid
Woot! Two stars!! Do I get a cookie now...?
Pie. You get pie for two stars. [:)]
When I first found this place, I was in heaven when it came to learning about the skirmish game. It was through this site that I started learning about skirmish gaming at the tournament level. It would be a gross understatement to say that I've learned a thing or two about the game from being here.
I once posted a related question, about what obligations other members feel regarding answering the posts of other users, especially newer ones.
For myself, I want people to be pulled in and added to the community. I want them to take the great advice from here, but then to return and add their own experiences and advice. It doesn't always happen, of course, but that's what I'd most want.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 12:25 PM |
| I'll give anyone advice. I'm not clever enough, nor invested enough emotionally, to have great secrets in warband building.
Now, whether or not they should take that advice... | |
Fastest dropping DCI ranking on record!
Champion of Juiblex | |
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robby
Sergeant
918 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 12:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gnolaum
Some knowledge can only be earned, it can't be given or taken.
I think this is key. Or restated, without the requisite experience, knowledge isn't useful. Someone can read Grey's Anatomy cover to cover but it doesn't mean they can perform surgery.
I read as much as I can in this Skirmish (and Tournament) forums to learn as much as I can, and contribute in the rare few occasions where I feel I have something to offer. But all that reading will only do minimal good without actually playing round after round and game after game. It isn't lack of knowledge that will be the reason I stink at the QT - it will be lack of experience. [:)]
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To the list with you!
Email: robby.anderson@yahoo.com | H/W List | My Trade Interface | Reference Thread/Completed Trades
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 12:54 PM |
| When I first came to MaxMinis I read a lot wanting to "catch-up" to the power players...reading was not the key. Practice is what made my game better. You can read about basic game play but I don't think it makes that big of an impact when you're actually playing.
I think reading about what figures are the "Tier 1" figures and such are a great benefit and I think that's what a "newbie" can gain the most from. But as previously stated...newbie with Tier 1 warband vs veteran with tier 1 warband...no contest unless some gets very lucky with dice. So I don't see it as a problem.
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 06/01/2006 1:19 PM |
| For me, I read this forum because I don't get to skirmish very often, but at least this keeps me thinking about it and up to date on what is happening in the community. Is it making me a *BETTER* player? Marginally I think....but mostly I do it because the discussions here are interesting and relevant to my favorite hobby.
I don't post a lot, but I read every day - I don't have the experiences to share. But please keep posting interesting and fun things for me to read.....I might be able to get a skirish game in this month!!! | |
A wand of silence means never having to say you're sorry.
CHAMPION OF THE ANNIS HAG!!! | |
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trollbill
Warrior
176 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 1:21 PM |
| If I had a problem giving away tips and tricks to other gamers I wouldn't write articles that do just that. Advice can do a lot to decrease the learning curve of the game, but once you get into the upper end of play, you start to reach a point of diminishing returns. So if you happen to be a pro, giving advice doesn't usually hurt you very much.
On the other hand, giving advice can actually help. The student isn't the only one who can learn from the teacher's lesson.
You also have to look at the time you have to invest to test certain concepts. Without being able to rely on someone else to do some testing, while you do others, thorough testing of all concepts can take a huge amount of time. I am more than happy to ask, "Has anyone tried this concept?" to see if it shows enough potential to invest further time in.
The only exception to this is giving out Warband info for major tournaments (Qualifiers and GenCon). Since everyone knows who the top players attending will be, every knows they are likely to face this individual either in the swiss or elimination rounds. If you know you are likely to face a high quality player and you know what his warband is, you are likely to take a warband that may be average against most of the rest of the field but has an advantage against the high quality player's band. Obviously, if you are that high quality player, you don't want someone (especially another high quality player) doing that. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 1:30 PM |
| I'm a bit of a postaholic I guess though I'd say only about half my posts have any real use. Which is probably true about a lot of people here. It's about opinion and/or thoughts on something. Maybe it's relevant and useful to some. Hard for me to say to what level as I don't really keep track. I can say that there is a lot of chat going on elsewhere rather than just here on the skirmish board. Vassal sometimes becomes a place where people just pop in and chat away about things, particularly around this time of year (qualifier season). So yeah you'll get a lot from here but not everything.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
******************************************************************************************************************************************************
Successful trades with: Tickparasite, Iyceman, Faragdar The Wise's friend, avrivah, Drakkengi, brucemc, Krush, maniacal_mini_monger, hung4treason, Gandy, NarlethDrider, Kunimatyu, etc, etc, blah, blah, blah..... | |
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Pegasus Knight
Sergeant
896 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 2:12 PM |
| I'd balk at the 'hit and run learning' method more if I felt there was some sort of MaxMinis-community propietary rights to upper level play. If someone drops by for 10 posts, learns what they want to, and leave...that's okay by me. Hopefully they learned something useful that makes them a better competitive player, so that in turn I'll have to step up my own game.
Mind, I think their 'hit and run' tactic is wrong; I think they're missing out on community involvement. But as it is, you won't see me be upset over their choice. | |
- Irrationally Fanatical Champion of Pegasus-mounted cavalry
- Proud member of Team Low Tier Beasting: I play CG as my main faction!
- Garland, TX 2006 Qualifier Champion
My trading thread: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19725 | |
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Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 2:18 PM |
| | I try to help people when I post on these boards. Most of the time thought the answers kind of come out jumbled. So I try to cover the answers up w/ some humor or something. I know what I'm talking about, I just don't say it right all the time is all. | |
Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
Squire of Death Giants
Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
| | Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 2:52 PM |
| | I don't give away anything more than I need to in order to manipulate the populace. Otherwise I wouldn't be keeping the man DOWN. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1067 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 3:08 PM |
| How can you laugh?
When you know I'm down.
I'm Down (He's really down)
I'm Down (Down on the ground).
er... Sorry, Doubt just put that song in my head.[:D] | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
| Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 3:16 PM |
| I actually don't like coming here to get warband advice or post my cool new warband idea, cause it always seems to end up being the same "Tier 1" revisions. So, why bother.
I do like to come here and check out some whacked out ideas that posters show, or the clarify some rules-type stuff. Sometimes reading the card and seeing it are different things. Players here can point out the nuances that I may have missed while sifting through for LE prize pieces and combos, and I do appreciate that. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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HidesFromHurricanes
Warrior
289 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 3:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sharn Inquisitor
Even thought some people probably do come out here to gather meta information on the status of skirmish, who's better off...the dude that play tested the heck out of something then posted here...has experienced it first hand, or the dude that reads the information and assumes they've mastered something but haven't seen it in action? It's one thing to read about beating a Marut, Sacred Watchers, Frenzied Berserkers, Death Slaads or Helmed Horrors...its another thing to have worked with them and contributed to the community.
Just my opinion probably.
I think what you can determine from the boards is a basic what are good warbands. Over in the tournament forums several people have noted for each "Tier 1" band in the finals, there are another three or four similar ones in the trenches. So someone has pointed out a good warband, this doesn't mean anyone can pick it up and play it. At the higher levels practice is going to show. Good chess players do well because they have been in similar situations in other games and are more likely to choose the right move. This is the same with DDM. If you haven't played on all the maps and practiced against the common bands, you are not generally going to do better than average.
I think these forums get you over the hump of what is a good warband. The practice practice practice is up to you and is a non transferable good. | |
Champion of Savage Bard (Unearthed Arcana: Bard Variant)
Bloodwars Called shot (vindicated) Demonic Gnoll Adept/Priestess
Old Jagermonster Saying: Any Plan vere you luz your hat iz a BAD Plan. | |
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YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 4:13 PM |
| Also, the difference between say, 2nd place, and 7th place, at a tournament can be due to a lot of things.
I mean, there are some fantastic players who haven't won Nationals, or even may not finish first at a qualifier.
Suppose you take your favorite Marut band, run into Death Slaads in game one, lose map initiative, miss a few key rolls, and lose a close game. The DS player runs into 2xHGB in round two and loses. Meanwhile, you run into a local "no wins" player in round two, further hurting your strength of schedule. The DCI puts you up against someone else with a weak SoS, and you're struggling to get back into the top four.
How many good players finished, say, tied for 9th, at the Grinder?
Two times, I've gone undefeated at Sealed events going into the last match.
Both times, I would have finished 3rd if I lost, instead of 2nd.
If I win, I get 1st prize.
If I lose, I get 3rd prize.
All on schedule.
I won once and finished 3rd the next time.
Look back at last year's final.
Didn't an Orc Champ get a crit on Fenris's HBG?
What happens if the CE band wins init on the next roll?
Didn't Kiddoc scrape by against Lich 2xGolem in year one?
At the last local tournament, I ran GAS vs a Dwarf theme band and I won by 2 points at time being called because the Dwarf player (a good player) had FIVE natural 20s. Not one of my units made a morale save.
So here I am, running a top band, running it reasonably well, and I eat FIVE crits. (yes, the dice was legit) Almost lose to a theme band.
Yes, in that case, I played reasonably well, and I won... but, phew.
And now that nothing in the Meta has all good matchups?
And now that general skill levels in the country are rising?
The guys at the highest skill levels are working hard to stay above the rest of us, but, I feel that, on any given game, I can beat any player in the world.
I don't need a TON of luck. I just need luck to tip my way enough... a key roll here or there.
Meanwhile, these guys will own me, say 7 out of 9 games? But the general level of play should be improving in every area...
If I'm lucky enough to qualify, (playing at a reasonable level) I'll be happy just to see the guys fight it out at the Nationals.
Who knows what will win it this year? | |
Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 4:20 PM |
| | WE know. It has already been determined. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Mortusbard
Sergeant
427 Posts
North Carolina
| | 06/01/2006 5:46 PM |
| I don't think it is a big idea.
Those who stop by and fish for information, generally won't be able to cope with the amount of testing,playing and discussions that are going on around a particular concept.
Some like myself Love to play but don't get to play that much. We live vicariosly through those who do play a lot.
Experience though is earned. You can tell someone all day long about a particular warband until he faces off against it in the hands of a player who knows how to run it, he just won't get it. | |
Unto Death We Strive,
From Birth unto the Dust, | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 5:49 PM |
| Let 'em fish. They'll get minnows until they actually play it out. Free-flowing info is good for the game, which is good for us who like it.
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Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 6:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
WE know. It has already been determined.
You got the chocolates I sent before you voted, right?
Anywho, I think it's ridiculous to believe that in one day somebody can pull months worth of skill from Maxminis. There's a long road involved in becoming a good skirmisher, and we're all spread along it at various points. Maxminis is just a way for people at different points on that road to communicate to each other. Nothing anybody else says is going to magically transport you to a spot further down the road, but it can make the going easier and quicker. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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ickthegreat
Warrior
291 Posts
| | 06/01/2006 6:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Mortusbard
Some like myself Love to play but don't get to play that much. We live vicariosly through those who do play a lot.
These goes for me aswell. I know that sometimes reading about how this person plays this piece can help. I think it has help me some, as many people have stated though the best way is still to get out and play.
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trades pending: (0)
everything is perfectly going out of control
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lono
Sneak
61 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 1:37 AM |
| my general habit is to lurk, mostly because I don't feel I have anything constructive to add to most conversations about skirmish play. I collect D&D minis because I'm a DM and I originally came to maxminis looking for information on what was going to be in Underdark... when I registered for the Garland qualifier it was because I've spent so much time reading about skirmish and I wanted to play in a real tournament... while my warband was built using knowledge I gathered while lurking I intentionally tried to do something different than marut/coautl/SW/warforged scout/CoO... primarily because that was somebody else's idead and I wanted to try something that I had come up with myself.
hopefully there are many people like me who discovered this place and because of it are being drawn into the skirmish game as that will only allow the hobby to grow. | |
Champion of Pierce, warforged archer/commando, and all other quality unique minis because how else will Drizzt become tier 1? | |
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NightMoor
Sergeant
448 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 3:38 AM |
| I have no trouble sharing strategies and tips, even so-called "secret" ones, since a more competitive environment is a better environment for the game. I couldn't care less whether someone only talks, only listens, uses other people's army ideas or only creates his/her own, as far as I'm concerned if you think you've dreamed up some magical combo that no one has thought off, you haven't.
People forget that 50% of this game at least is playing skill - making the right decisions, making the right plans far in advance, and knowing what to do in order to win before your opponent even knows your doing it. Picking up someone else's warband is meaningless if you're a crappy player, while even throwing together a bunch of seemingly ragged figures can be deadly if your an excellent one.
In a way, I think forums like this actually serve to cement people into stereotypical armies and trains of thought in army building, to the point that the weaker players can't really learn terribly much anyways from just posting and reading posts. Thinking outside the box is a much more successful strategy and you gotta play to really learn and get better.
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13089 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 06/02/2006 8:14 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
In each group, of course, there are all kinds of different posters. Some people have thousands of posts but don't skirmish much. Some people have fewer than a thousand posts, but their posts are like gold for the community (i.e. Dagni).
Some people have equated my post count (high) to my skirmish ability (low, but hopefully getting better)
Not sure why some make the (sometimes erroneous) connection that high Maxminis post count equals high level skirkish ability.
?????????????? | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/02/2006 8:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
In each group, of course, there are all kinds of different posters. Some people have thousands of posts but don't skirmish much. Some people have fewer than a thousand posts, but their posts are like gold for the community (i.e. Dagni).
Some people have equated my post count (high) to my skirmish ability (low, but hopefully getting better)
Not sure why some make the (sometimes erroneous) connection that high Maxminis post count equals high level skirkish ability.
??????????????
That was kinda what I was hinting at. My own DCI rating is nothing to write home about, and I have a high post count. People were all over my NOST thread before the Ypsilanti qualifier like it was the best thing since sliced bread (admittedly, there were a LOT of humor posts in that thread). But, the people who read closely realize that the degree of correlation between post count and quality of advice is thin.
It's nice to see some lurkers dropping their cloaking devices to say "hi," in this thread. When I first joined maxminis I was almost exclusively lurking in the Skirmish thread as I tried my hand at trading (and I made some bad, bad trades back in the Harbinger-to-Archfiends days). But, when I learned there was a tournament within an hour's drive, and that this place held them with some frequency (no pre-release this time though [:(]), I got excited and really started using the boards a lot more.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Bluedevyl
Warrior
262 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 2:02 PM |
| Personally, I "dropped my cloaking device" because, though I'd been a forum lurker for a long time, there were some very interesting conversations I wanted to take part in and some interesting people I wanted to talk to on here...
I've been skirmishing since the Harbinger days, and I dont think my skills, such as they are (and XenoZephyr can attest to this) have gotten any better or worse... Vassal, on the other hand, has been a HUGE help in getting in practice when I can't make it to our bi-weekly games... | |
Champion of Tanis Half-Elven | |
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Kalrin
Sneak
90 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 3:33 PM |
| Generally I try not to post unless there's a worthwhile reason..
As for the skirmish value of reading vs. experience.
I don't play mini's often. This is because I don't play on Vassal and the tournament is the only play enviroment I can generally attend (and that's infrequent). Still, I tend to read posts here, and that helps some.
The best example of this is a match where I was running a LE Quad variant (using an Efreeti) against a GAS band.
Because I'd read up on GAS I knew I had to kill the Young Master. I also knew enough to know when my opponent made some suboptimal choices, and to try and take advantage of them. However, I wasn't quite skilled enough to exploit that information to pull off a win (it was pretty close though).
So as a lurker without much play experience: I can learn alot from Maxminis to know what to do (or watch for), but to pull it off perfectly, I'm gonna need more experience :). | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 06/02/2006 4:57 PM |
| When I first started playing DDM it was about two years ago. I visited this site daily and would read post after post after post on anything skirmish related. I gained a huge amount of knowledge in just a short time. But there is only so much knowledge you can gain by reading. Some you need to learn by playing. I felt like a college graduate. Someone who has studied a lot but must start at the bottom of the corporate ladder.
The first year or so almost every post was highly valuable to me and I soaked it all in. Now that I have played almost 350 DDM matches I don't really learn so much from reading the posts as I used to. I think the reason is because most of the people posting aren't as experienced as I am. The information they share is usually something that I already knew or because I feel they are wrong. (Hopefully that doesn't come across in a mean sort of way because it isn't. The only way for new players to learn is by asking questions.) But I still read as much as I can. Occasionally I will find a gem of information that I haven't thought of before. Now I try to focus more on the posts of the top players who share similar ideas and strategies as myself.
One thing I've found that seperates the really good players from the next level down is that the top players are always thinking ahead. They've already moved on from the Couatl/Marut band and are now building the counter band or the counter for the counter. They knew about the Couatl/Marut band long before it showed at the first qualifier. They are focusing now on Gen Con and what will show up there.
To be a top player you need knowledge, experience, and innovation. Knowledge you can gain here. Experience you can gain by playing. Innovation you need to learn on your own. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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GiliusThunderHead
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 6:31 PM |
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Individuality is everything to me.
Rule #1 of warband building for me: It's gotta be mine, proprietary, my baby!
For that reason, I like to be slightly more tight-lipped regarding warband choices.
Well that and everyone laughs at my warbands mostly....mostly....MWUHAHAHAHA the last laugh is best!
--GiliusThunderHead | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 7:20 PM |
| | Heck, we were playing Marut/Couatl in December/January. It's nothing new at all. I specifically took a Slaad army to the Midwest Open to counter it, and ran into 0 of them, even though it was around 1/4 of the field. | |
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MechaKingGhidra
Sergeant
632 Posts
| | 06/02/2006 7:39 PM |
| | Now I'm sure that for the most part that warbands meant for serious tournaments had people spending weeks if not months on them to factor in what was most efficient for play. But maybe, just maybe, that there at some point in DDM history(no matter how comparitively short it really is) there has been at least a few warbands simply based on people's favourite minis whether or not they realized at the time that they had a good chance at winning. Surely some sort of situation like this has happened and everyone saw how it performed and jumped in on the action, all the while the person who made it just never knew what they had and simply did nothing to elaborate on it and either went back to the category of having an "I think this might work cause it's the best thing I got" attitude. There must be situations at least semi-like this and they basically set mainstream facts in stone to which the gaming community still holds true to this day. Kind of like those anonymous but still very famous proverbs. Ya never know who the next da Vinci, Einstein, or John Velcro(see Kerri's Big Invention on flashplayer.com for details) will be and so I guess it may be quite random as to what influences the perspectives of DDM players and whatnot. Just my two cents. | |
Champion of the Prismatic Golem
MechaKingGhidra: Infamous for his absolute despisement of Red Dragons and devout worshipper of all Black Dragons. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/02/2006 10:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
To be a top player you need knowledge, experience, and innovation. Knowledge you can gain here. Experience you can gain by playing. Innovation you need to learn on your own.
This is too long to fit on a cool T-shirt, but it's spot on.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 06/03/2006 11:52 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
In each group, of course, there are all kinds of different posters. Some people have thousands of posts but don't skirmish much. Some people have fewer than a thousand posts, but their posts are like gold for the community (i.e. Dagni).
Some people have equated my post count (high) to my skirmish ability (low, but hopefully getting better)
Not sure why some make the (sometimes erroneous) connection that high Maxminis post count equals high level skirkish ability.
??????????????
Yep,I haven't skirmished since Angelfire came out! | | | |
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