jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
    
 | | 06/04/2006 9:28 PM |
| ok this thread is all about Shuluth, Archvillian!
Some of my other threads i post between the last few days have been either junk or time wasters :P
But this one i want to make so it can info the people on what bands there are for Shuluth, Archvillian but more impornant how to use him right. I'v just pulled my Shuluth, Archvillian so i have 0% known on how to use him as no one else used him at my shop.
So i need you help.
What are good Shuluth, Archvillian bands?
What mini runs well for him?
And most important,
how do you use him the right way?
he really does seem like a techy commander.
I'll start this off with a band i heard of from another thread
Shuluth Chraals: Shuluth, 3 x Chraal, Dark Moon Monk, Large Duergar, 2 x Warrior Skeleton (200/8) | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 9:47 PM |
| | You'd be better using 2 or 3 Duergar Champs in place of Chraals and upgrading the fodder. Timber wolfs maybe. You don't want to rely on the Chraals. If you face someone who had DR or resist cold, they get nerfed pretty quick. You will also face cmdr assassination for sure. Killing him would net 105 pts in addition to his cost and certainly cost you the game. | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 06/04/2006 10:17 PM |
| | I've tried Shuluth with Chraals and, even though I won the test match, I don't like that combo. When running multiple Chraals you want to keep the commander safe. With Shuluth you want him up near the action. Those two things kind of get in the way of each other so you'd be better off with something else. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 10:40 PM |
| i agree with you both, champs seems the way to go with guy, they also seem better for the cleave and his commander effect.
that was only a band i found in a past post as i stated.
so does commander effect set of AttacksoO all the time? | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3547 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 06/04/2006 10:46 PM |
| I agree that Shuluth is a very "techie" commander. If you don't get some mileage out of his commander effect, then I think he isn't worth the points. To make his commander effect work for you, though, you need two primary things: beaters who can capitalize with powerful AoOs, and support units that can reduce enemy saves.
As far as capatilizing with AoOs, your best bets right now are probably Iron Golem and War Troll. The pisser is that the 2nd element is hard to work into LE. All the cheap units with stench are in CE. Sure, you can bring them into LE with the right commander, but that's expensive and leaves you with little or no points for the beater(s) you need. The curse aura used to be a nice one, too, but that is also CE and isn't cheap to bring into LE, and then there's the little problem of the Sacred Watcher. The Half-elf Hexblade is interesting, but he's also expensive and not, in my opinion, reliable enough to be worth his points.
This is about where I stumble with any attempt to build a decent band with Shuluth, at least at 200 points. If you could be sure you could make use of the brain sucker ability early enough to matter and in a position where you don't immediately get Shuluth subsequently killed, you'd probably do pretty well. But it's hard to imagine being able to pull that off with any regularity.
Epic Shuluth, on the other hand, looks pretty interesting. The DC of his commander effect and mind blast are high enough that they can be counted on to be a factor in the skirmish. A Beholder or two (with Dark Naga to help) would be nice companions, because even the slide eye ray can be a lethal weapon in a Shuluth band. There's also a good bit more room for the kind of offensive support pieces you need for AoOs and the stenchy guys who can make that DC 20 save even uglier. | |
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Winner, WBC X | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 06/04/2006 10:54 PM |
| | I still don`t find a place to fix him, i like the character but the CFX makes him to be a close combat but his low AC and low HP makes him really vulnerable. | |
Knight of the Quori
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 10:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jos1-1
i agree with you both, champs seems the way to go with guy, they also seem better for the cleave and his commander effect.
that was only a band i found in a past post as i stated.
so does commander effect set of AttacksoO all the time?
You'll get AoOs if you have the enemy based by something (a Duergar Champ perhaps) and they fail the save. He is forced to move and he also then cannot make multiple attacks unless he has sidestep. So you get AoO and less attacks on you. Add to that the Champ's 20 Ac and conceal, he may not get hit if it goes right. If you're lucky enough to score a kill with the Champ, he has cleave. [:D] | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/04/2006 11:07 PM |
| Maybe we'll get something in Bloodwar that goes well with Shuluth. I'm thinking there will be lots of evil things in that set that could fill the role. Or the next set, the undead one--undead ought to work well with Shuluth.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 11:08 PM |
| i think a Khumat with a dark moon monk could be scary too. aside from the hh witch seems to be dieing down it could prove very intresting. plues it puts a nice target on its head so that Shuluth can come in and get that kill he might need with some DC support it might seem interesting.
i dont like IG idea caz it puts a big target on Shuluth head.
War troll seems really cool too. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/04/2006 11:28 PM |
| | It might be interesting to see an Aspect of Hextor in the mix with this along with creatures that have sneak attack damage. Anything adjacent to Hextor is considered flanked, so every time the enemy fails against Shuluth's cmdr effect, the AoOs will be heavy on damage. Hmmm... | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 06/05/2006 12:41 AM |
| | Constructs and elementals to do the stun cone through are important imo. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
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Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 1:06 AM |
| I've had success with Duerger Champs.
If you can have a Champ basing fodder and meat then you can get some nice attacks - fodder fails save, Duerger kills and cleaves into the real threat.
Adding a Helmed Horror can be nice and gives you some freedom with the stun cone.
Shuluth is techy, usually all the tech you need/afford, so I tend to go the all-beater route.
I tend to play aggressively with him - you want him within six.
| |
Champion of the Prestige Class where mages focus on telekenesis and start throwing people into the ceiling and uber stuff like that.
Desirer of a Commander Effect in CG that grants Sidestep to followers with a ranged attack. | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 10:13 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by psistef
I've had success with Duerger Champs.
If you can have a Champ basing fodder and meat then you can get some nice attacks - fodder fails save, Duerger kills and cleaves into the real threat.
Adding a Helmed Horror can be nice and gives you some freedom with the stun cone.
Shuluth is techy, usually all the tech you need/afford, so I tend to go the all-beater route.
I tend to play aggressively with him - you want him within six.
I agree completely. I've only used him a couple of times, but I find he's all the tech I can safely afford.
One nice use is on the Drow Outpost - Shuluth can almost always find a way to do his Stun cone across the pits without hitting any of his own beaters on the bridge. Barring flying critters or careless placement, he can be up close without worrying about getting attacked.
Also, I'd avoid thinking you need one big-damage beater to take advantage of Disorient. Two Doogie Champs basing the same enemy will do more AoO damage than a single War Troll, and it's magic damage with a Cleave to boot. And when Disorient fails, you still have 2 efficient mid-range beaters instead of one slightly overcosted titan. | | | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 10:19 AM |
| Last time I played Shuluth, I used the 4 DC, 3 Goblin Skirmisher variant.
Worked out ok, only losing to an AoM and Iron Golem band | |
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Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 11:32 AM |
| Shuluth is a very interesting piece. W/ a strong commander effect and some tech w/ those stuns. He can also move in and finish some pieces off to get brain sucker going on. Here is some of the research I have done so far w/ Shuluth.
One of the better pieces to put w/ him is believe it or not a Khumat. Wartrolls are also great but I like the Khumat for 18 points less. This lets you add in a DMM for the magic weapon. The band I have been runnning as of late is:
Shuluth
Khumat
x2 DC
DMM
x 3 Kobold Miners
I have had a lot of success w/ this band actually. It has taken down a HGB band and Trips D. Slaads w/ not to many glaring problems and has also dismantled Kord and such. A bad matchup would be the Archmage and maybe Marut/Couatl/Bodyguard. Ballista might be a bad matchup too, depending on the map.
Shuluth also benefits from multi-hitters well. The point in one of these bands is to get as many hits in as possible when his commander effect works. It will just be harder to get the stuns off if u have that many of your own figs in the way.
I also really like the potential of Epic Shuluth. I just have problems figuring out what to fill the rest of the band with. Wartrolls and Khumats might do well. Maybe even King Snurre and a Fire Giant/Formorian could mesh well w/ Shuluth, although there would ba not very many points left. | |
Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
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Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 1:03 PM |
| This is a long post. I don't contribute much to the boards, but I think I can on this topic, as I've played Shuluth extensively (30+ matches).
Hitters are the way to go with Shuluth. Make a build that is strong with or without him. If you were to remove Shuluth from the build, would the remaining pieces be a pretty good offensive core? If not, start over again. I also recommend at least one hitter have a large base to block access to the rest of the warband. The Chraal is near perfect: the breath weapon, the fact that Shuluth can stun cone through it, speed 8 for fast blocking/positioning, lots of HP, etc. Good fit. The big base is critical for blocking, and forcing engagement on your terms. The threat of the breath weapon is just an added level of control.
When I play Shuluth with 3x DC and a Chraal, the Chraal is totally expendable. He blocks, threatens with breath weapon, then dies after engagement takes place. Once he dies, all DC's should be basing opponents, and Shuluth in a safe position to utilize his CE. If these conditions are met and the Chraal only gets its breath weapon off, and never makes a single attack, it's served its purpose.
Bad matchups are against tough fliers with decent saves, like Helmed Horrors and Justicators. Gith Monks on an open map are bad news as well. Sacred Watchers can be pesky, but if you make even 50% on incorporeal, then they die quickly to DC's. Surprisingly, MCB isn't a terrible match up, unless you're on King's Forest.
I play Shuluth as a squishy commander, especially with that Chraal tied to him. I keep him back until after engagement has begun, then bring him within 6 of the action, but always out of harms way. Usually, I use Halt Mind on turn one or two. If it works, it's just bonus and can swing the game, and if not, no worries. Most players forget or ignore this spell, so it's easy to get off on a choice target (Aramil, Couatl, Kord). I don't consider Brainsucker necessary to win, so I only bring Shuluth in to use it if it can either be done very safely and is almost a guarantee; or, if I am desperate and need to take big risks.
Another thing very important to Shuluth builds are map selection (duh). You can expect to win a reasonable amount of map inits, so practice on your map a lot. Good choices are maps which limit mobility and have choke points. This band does extremely well when it has control over positioning, and the enemy is limited in where it can go. Kings Ruin 1, Broken Demongate and Magma Keep are all good choices. Mithril Mines might be as well, but it wasn't very good for the build I use. Drow Outpost might be good in a Helmed Horror-Free environment.
If you lose map selection and get Kings Road or something open, then I play him either like one would play triple or quad Chraal, and protect him; or if it's a bad match up to boot, then I play very aggressively and bait with Shuluth - this is about the only time I'll play aggressively with him. I do this by putting him next to cover and positioning DC's around him so that the enemy can get to Shuluth, but not without taking AoO's. I make it irresistable (within a single move action, allowing an attack on Shuluth on the same activation; or, within a double move on round one. If I'm lucky, my enemy will get softened up by the breath weapon and some AoO's before killing Shuluth (and the Chraal). After that, there's 3 healthy DC's who can slug it out.
One last comment, it's nice to have a tile grabber and get up on points very early. Facing a Shuluth band and having to bring the battle to him really sucks. If you're playing up on points with Shuluth, life is good. I've lost my faith in kobold miners, esp. with Shuluth builds - the activation losses are too critical. I like the dire rat. Speed 8 rules for 4pts. and is good enough on most maps. | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 1:12 PM |
| Shuluth
Helmed Horror x2
Skeletal Equiceph x2
Dark Moon Monk
Blue
Wolf
The helmed horros and skels are immune to the cone, plus 15dmg from a skels AoO is much more risky than most. The HH rarely miss on the AoO and make pretty good front liners. DDM is there to boost attacks/grant magic damage.
1 Chraal might be good to have instead of a HH, and it frees up 10pts for more fodder/upgrading. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
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Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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zhanteel
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 2:17 PM |
| I have used him in 200 with a war troll and a second beater type I can't place right now.
I think the HH and undead idea is a great way to get some easier use out of his cone as well. I did have a couple issues with that, and avoiding my own people.
The best I've seen so far though is epic shuluth with a beholder and HHs. That beholder slow means that now you get an aoo, and they get no attack. | |
"Call no man happy til he is dead"
-E Cobham Brewer | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 2:26 PM |
| | I'll also disagree with the notion that the semi-titan pieces (iron golem, war troll) are better choices with Shuluth's AOO generating ability. I think multiple AOOs from duergar champions, for example, is better than a single AOO from a war troll in most cases. Cleave helps their case as well. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 2:54 PM |
| | I agree how Memphisto plays Shuluth. It is often good to use him as bait because he can handle himself most of the time. The only thing I see that has problems while playing him like he is a squishy commander, is a smart player will make his commander effect "backfire". A hitter will fail and since he is taking the Aoos to begin w/ he decides to eliminate the problem then and there. Seen it happena few times, not always succesful or smart though. | |
Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
Squire of Death Giants
Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 06/05/2006 3:14 PM |
| I find that using him with the Myconid guard in 100pt battles works great...
| |
A wand of silence means never having to say you're sorry.
CHAMPION OF THE ANNIS HAG!!! | |
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Eliminator53
Sergeant
628 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 3:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Thespian
I find that using him with the Myconid guard in 100pt battles works great...
Hecks yeah, plants rule! | |
Champion of Tavern Stripper
Knight of Knights
Squire of Death Giants
Somethin-or-another of Big Arse Swords | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 3:47 PM |
| You can make some funky builds with this...
59 - Shuluth
35 - Chraal
15 - Dark Moon Monk
33 - Duergar Champion
10 - 2 x Timber Wolf
48 - 2 x Direguard (immune cold, magic missiles, can go incorporeal for one activation & can still hit for 10 damage)
200 pts/8 activations
Possibilities are endless...
| |
Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 3:49 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Eliminator53
Shuluth is a very interesting piece. W/ a strong commander effect and some tech w/ those stuns. He can also move in and finish some pieces off to get brain sucker going on. Here is some of the research I have done so far w/ Shuluth.
One of the better pieces to put w/ him is believe it or not a Khumat. Wartrolls are also great but I like the Khumat for 18 points less. This lets you add in a DMM for the magic weapon. The band I have been runnning as of late is:
Shuluth
Khumat
x2 DC
DMM
x 3 Kobold Miners
I have had a lot of success w/ this band actually. It has taken down a HGB band and Trips D. Slaads w/ not to many glaring problems and has also dismantled Kord and such. A bad matchup would be the Archmage and maybe Marut/Couatl/Bodyguard. Ballista might be a bad matchup too, depending on the map.
Shuluth also benefits from multi-hitters well. The point in one of these bands is to get as many hits in as possible when his commander effect works. It will just be harder to get the stuns off if u have that many of your own figs in the way.
I also really like the potential of Epic Shuluth. I just have problems figuring out what to fill the rest of the band with. Wartrolls and Khumats might do well. Maybe even King Snurre and a Fire Giant/Formorian could mesh well w/ Shuluth, although there would ba not very many points left.
i like the looks of this band, i really want to try out JAWS OF DDDOOM!! | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Kozaro
Skirmisher
18 Posts
¤ POLAND ¤
| | 06/05/2006 5:14 PM |
| I think taht should work well:
..:: Enlarged Horror ::..
Shuluth, Archvillian
2x Helmed Horror
2x Large Duergar
Dark Moon Monk
2x Kobold Miner
With great AoO from Duergars ^^...
and flying, mobile HH's. | |
. . : : Polish DDM Elite: : . .
Champion of Kozaro Eveningfall xD! | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 06/05/2006 5:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
Last time I played Shuluth, I used the 4 DC, 3 Goblin Skirmisher variant.
Isn't that from Kiddoc's WBCVII? | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 5:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Newtoncain
quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
Last time I played Shuluth, I used the 4 DC, 3 Goblin Skirmisher variant.
Isn't that from Kiddoc's WBCVII?
I think it was in there, but I also seem to recall this band was being discussed here about 20 seconds after the War Drums spoilers leaked. [)] | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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lantern314
Sergeant
684 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 9:24 PM |
| I've used him to pretty good success with a Duergar Champ, a Helmed Horror, an Efreeti, a Dark Moon Monk, and a Timber wolf. Don't have the points here. I'm sure I'm leaving something out.
The biggest problem that I have had with using him successfully is remembering his commander effect. | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 09/25/2006 11:05 PM |
| | i think some miniature you need is something with fly and ofensive spells to kill fodders, and improve DC of Commander effect, Something like Efreeti, a Chraal to block enemys, and when chraal have low HP, use Efreeti to kill Chraal and damage adjacent enemy and trigger the Chraal explosion, some duergars works well too | |
Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
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troll4death
Sneak
99 Posts
Whitewater, Wisconsin
| | 09/26/2006 9:21 AM |
| Posted By IanB on 06/05/2006 2:26 PM
I'll
also disagree with the notion that the semi-titan pieces (iron golem,
war troll) are better choices with Shuluth's AOO generating ability. I
think multiple AOOs from duergar champions, for example, is better than
a single AOO from a war troll in most cases. Cleave helps their case as
well. This is a good comment in my opinion should be more of a
quad or at least 3 hitter. With hardley no healing spells its
hard for lawful evil to keep up the titian build. Blood War looks
very promising for the evil factions though.
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 11:12 AM |
| Posted By MAURIZIO on 09/25/2006 11:05 PM
i think some miniature you need is something with fly and ofensive spells to kill fodders, and improve DC of Commander effect, Something like Efreeti, a Chraal to block enemys, and when chraal have low HP, use Efreeti to kill Chraal and damage adjacent enemy and trigger the Chraal explosion, some duergars works well too
Too techy, anyway, you want to keep fodder alive, as they work wonders with cleave and for brain sucker/getting points, since Shuluth's commander effect makes them much less usefull for things like flanking etc. One possibility is to use something like a medium water elemental, its got cleave and is immune to stun, it clearly can't be the bulk of your force, but as a bodyguard/blocker it has definate potential with Shuluth | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 09/26/2006 6:06 PM |
| Posted By warty_nosed_goblin on 09/26/2006 11:12 AM Posted By MAURIZIO on 09/25/2006 11:05 PM
i think some miniature you need is something with fly and ofensive spells to kill fodders, and improve DC of Commander effect, Something like Efreeti, a Chraal to block enemys, and when chraal have low HP, use Efreeti to kill Chraal and damage adjacent enemy and trigger the Chraal explosion, some duergars works well too Too techy, anyway, you want to keep fodder alive, as they work wonders with cleave and for brain sucker/getting points, since Shuluth's commander effect makes them much less usefull for things like flanking etc. One possibility is to use something like a medium water elemental, its got cleave and is immune to stun, it clearly can't be the bulk of your force, but as a bodyguard/blocker it has definate potential with Shuluth
Yeap, but is a variant !!! | |
Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
| |
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Azov
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 09/28/2006 2:22 AM |
| my vote is for shluth, 2x helmed horror, druger champ and a bit of filler
| | | |
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Ethandrul
Warrior
301 Posts
| | 09/28/2006 1:23 PM |
| | I was thinking- an ambush drake- could fill the spot of a beholder with shuluth in 200the slow cone is nasty. and you still have points to buy some hitters.- after the cone the ambush drake is a crappy second string fighter- or assassin | |
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coupon code loyal2MGff to get 2.95 off any order of 25.00 or more!
Tell them ethandrul sent you and we both get 5% store credit
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SpiderMines
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 09/28/2006 4:19 PM |
| I just wanted to say that this was one of the best posts I've read in a while. Thank you for the thoughtful analysis and recounts.
-SpiderMines
"Posted By memphisto on 06/05/2006 1:03 PM
This is a long post. I don't contribute much to the boards, but I think I can on this topic, as I've played Shuluth extensively (30+ matches). "
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- SpiderMines | |
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MAURIZIO
Sergeant
960 Posts
Lima, Perú
| | 09/28/2006 5:41 PM |
| | its just so crazy use a ambush drake, that maybe it work. I would try it!! | |
Againts the Giants Called Shot: Cattie Bri.
Dungeon of Dread Called Shot: Cockatrice.
Todas las batallas en la vida sirven para enseñarnos algo, inclusive aquellas que perdemos. Paulo Coehlo
"DnD teaches you a valuable lesson, always loot the bodies of your dead enemies"
| |
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kumaiti
Warrior
201 Posts
Moscow - Russia
| | 09/29/2006 12:33 AM |
| I disagree with some previous posts. Shulluth + cadaver collector can work very well if there aren't quad belchers or ballistas running around.
Shulluth
Cadaver Collector
Large Duergar x2
Timber Wolf
Kobold Miner
(It isn't my warband. I would change one of the large duergars for something else for activation control...)
I played against that about 6 or 7 times and the only way I beat it was playing Ballista + Marut in Dragondown Grotto... All the other times I faced it, the situation was:
Basing shulluth means getting beaten by the CC (with the help of melee reach........)
Basing the CC means risking failing Shuluth's Cfx and taking AoO from CC, which is bound to happen unless you are playing CE with high-level beaters + wardrummer.
The duergars usually die or rout from spells before doing much.
*rant on*
What is annoying, to me, is that Shuluth + CC seems like an "error free" band as long as the opponent doesn't have strong area spells (chaos hammers, fireballs, flamestrikes) to threaten shuluth behing the CC and/or ranged attacks (arcane Ballista/ storm archer/ firebelchers) to threaten the CC itself. Under any other condition, as long as you keep Shuluth close to the CC, you have a very hard shell for the opponent to open.... Every time I lost to this band, I admit I made one or two mistakes, but my oponent always do three or four (like letting me hit his all his creatures with chaos hammers), rolls two or three 1s and still he wins..............
I need to try triple-horrors (I don't have Dark moon monk to do a decent quad) or triple belchers against it.....
*rant off*
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You know when you are playing too much DDM when you read the Art of War and start wondering how that applies to DDM... | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 09/29/2006 12:40 AM |
| | A Shuluth warband can take down GAS with suprising ease if you are -very- careful with the commander. As long as yuo can keep Shuluth untouched, the stuns and commander effect will really mess up those monks. DC 16 isnt that amazing, but if you eat soemthing along the way, the monks will be failing all saves 50% of the time. After that Duergar, or similar high attack beaters can take them down. But if you end up on an open map or Teleport temple, you might as well pray for the best. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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One_Wing
Sergeant
494 Posts
London
| | 09/29/2006 6:09 AM |
| | I am trying a band with Shultuh at the UK nationals tommorow, i'll post how it goes. | |
Thousands of Zulu's, behind You!
Proud member of PK's team low tier beasting; CG for ever!
Champion of the Dragon Disciple | |
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Duke of Spoils
greyhaze
Warlord
7737 Posts
| | 09/29/2006 11:46 AM |
| Posted By kumaiti on 09/29/2006 12:33 AM
The duergars usually die or rout from spells before doing much.
Have you tried Skeletal Equicephs? They're also immune to stun and a few pts cheaper. | |
Greyhaze's DDM Spoilers
Champion of a Medium Dog & then a Darkenbeast , Raistlin Majere, Nightmare WDQ25/60, Warduke WD60/60,
Anti-Champion of Guns, "Knight of Bugbears", and Joke Champion of Venger.
Called Shots: Frost Giant in Dangerous Delves. | |
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