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Originally posted by greyhaze

Maybe this can help put some perspective on how it supposed to work... One attempt (unless you go to the grinder as well), that's it.

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Originally posted by greyhaze

All of the qualifiers are supposed to happen simultaneously

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That is how a tournament is supposed to work. Look at the olympics. You get one shot at the cup, that's it. It IS unsportsmanlike to go to another qualifier, there's nothing set up against it, so people do it.

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Originally posted by Fenris

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Originally posted by robbdaman


Sorry that some people don't play competitively enough to make the you happy. We have a fun time when we play. We're not hardcore, anal players like some people. Paying $10 to get ripped apart by someone from another state doesn't constitute fun to some people. If it does for you, more power to you. Meeting players from other places can be fun but you're assuming that everyone finds it so.

My perspective is that this qualifier season has only shown me that there are some people with way too much time and money to be able to travel all over for a game. I did that for Magic tourneys when I was in my early 20's. Now that I'm older I find better things to do with my time and money.

R~

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Originally posted by Aesop


One hot summer’s day a Fox was strolling through an orchard till he came to a bunch of Grapes just ripening on a vine which had been trained over a lofty branch. “Just the things to quench my thirst,” quoth he. Drawing back a few paces, he took a run and a jump, and just missed the bunch. Turning round again with a One, Two, Three, he jumped up, but with no greater success. Again and again he tried after the tempting morsel, but at last had to give it up, and walked away with his nose in the air, saying: “I am sure they are sour.”

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You can't have it both ways. If you're not competitive, then why does it bother you to be "ripped apart" by someone from out of state? After all, you're playing for the fun of playing, not to win right? Or maybe winning does matter to you, which is a pretty good definition of "competitive" in my book.

Also, you traveled around for Magic tournaments, but because you did it at a (presumably) younger age than others, you're somehow better than people who do it at an older age? Want to explain that logic?

Not to mention, qualifiers are feeder tournaments for nationals, which in case you haven't noticed, takes place in Indianapolis -- requiring travel for most people. So your casual local players can't possibly compete in nationals without traveling, but you're looking down on people who travel to your local qualifier tournament? There's a disconnect here, and your air of superiority about it is misplaced and annoying.

I'll echo (and elaborate on) what Dagni said: Qualifiers aren't meant to be won by casual players. Qualifiers exclude people by design -- only four people get invites to nationals at each qualifier, everybody else is not invited (aka, excluded).

And what's the point of nationals, anyway? Is it a tournament where any casual player can show up with a Human Cleric of Bane warband and have a shot at winning? No, it's a highly competitive, relatively exclusive tournament where to do well you need to bring a highly efficient band with which you have practiced heavily. If that kind of tournament doesn't interest you, why are you worried about who wins a feeder tournament for it?

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Originally posted by Zoons

I'd like to see DDM try the olympic theme too. Partition the country/world into specific regions and use the different formats as different events and hold regional tournaments. It'd be cool.

Or 5 man teams with four of the players tied to a faction and the other getting choice. 5 rounds of round robin play and the region with the most wins is the overall champ.

Just an idea. I'd like more tournaments and I really like Team concepts.

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Originally posted by robbdaman

Oh and don't be so arrogant about who you are and your opinions on the subject. Your sarcasm comes off really uppity.

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Originally posted by Felagund
I think this topic started off with good intentions, but it seems to me like it's been reduced to bitterness from those who failed to qualify.

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Originally posted by robbdaman
Your entire argument holds no air with me at all. Simply because people can travel doesn't mean they should be allowed to qualify at several tournaments..... ....supposed big wigs blow all the fire out a local scene when they "invade" as people have put it. ... This qualifier season has been all about being in the right place at the right time or just living near a weak qualifier location ... It'd be nice to face a pathetically weak field of 11 only halfway competitive players .... It's a very flawed ...qualifiers in really stupid places ....and don't be so arrogant about who you are and your opinions on the subject...

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Originally posted by Tried

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Originally posted by robbdaman
Your entire argument holds no air with me at all. Simply because people can travel doesn't mean they should be allowed to qualify at several tournaments..... ....supposed big wigs blow all the fire out a local scene when they "invade" as people have put it. ... This qualifier season has been all about being in the right place at the right time or just living near a weak qualifier location ... It'd be nice to face a pathetically weak field of 11 only halfway competitive players .... It's a very flawed ...qualifiers in really stupid places ....and don't be so arrogant about who you are and your opinions on the subject...

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Wow. So many ridiculous comments, so little time.
Fenris gets a free invite, btw, and hasn't competed in any quals.
And, IMO, both he and kiddoc have earned the right to be arrogant. A little, anyway.
When you've done the same, I'll give you the same slack.

Did you ever consider that quals are placed where they are to allow travel? Why do you think edmonton gets a qual, and vancouver not? Because seattle is close to vancouver. Similarly, socal did not get a qual because both phoenix and san francisco are within traveling distance. (Even SLC can be done.) The quals are distributed to allow players that wish to be competitive to get to a qual.

IF you want a regional championship, organize one. We did. New England did. the Midwest did. Montreal did.
Then, you can be the biggest fish in the pond.
But don't think that WoTC made a qualifier just for you and your local clique of buddies. (Talk about arrogant).

Only one player who had qualified at a previous event came to AZ, and he won first place, justifying the reason a pre-qual'ed player should be allowed to continue playing.

And a championship, to my understanding, is supposed to be composed of the best of the best. As an example, from SoCal alone, we placed 1,3,4,5, 9th and 17th last year. Is it right that we have to share 4 qualifying spots with Norcal? Meh, maybe. But we have the option to go elsewhere and qualify. Like AZ, (where 2 of us qual'ed last year) or other places.

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Originally posted by robbdaman

I'd be perfectly happy if they took away the plane tickets for the qualifiers and gave them to the top 20-25 DCI players so they didn't have to work for it.

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Originally posted by robbdaman
As far as the qualifier layout I think it's lousy. You can't convince me otherwise simply because I believe it was poorly organized and that's how I feel. To me there are locations that are obviously far too easy and others that are obviously effectively a small grinder. So I think the layout is horrid as a result of that fact. End of story.

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Originally posted by Gnolaum

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Originally posted by robbdaman

I'd be perfectly happy if they took away the plane tickets for the qualifiers and gave them to the top 20-25 DCI players so they didn't have to work for it.

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You know one of the best ways to raise your rating? Play in qualifiers. You suggestiong would likely result in a great increase in what you are, I feel misquidedly, trying to decrease.

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Originally posted by robbdaman
As far as the qualifier layout I think it's lousy. You can't convince me otherwise simply because I believe it was poorly organized and that's how I feel. To me there are locations that are obviously far too easy and others that are obviously effectively a small grinder. So I think the layout is horrid as a result of that fact. End of story.

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Fine, you feel it is lousy. Supply a better one.

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Originally posted by robbdaman
Heh, well playing in the qualifier definately did not raise my rating. Raising my rating would take a solid competitive scene and as I stated we really don't have one despite having some solid competitive level players. As for supplying a better layout I don't work for WotC so it wouldn't matter if I did come up with one. All I can do is voice my complaints and hope they change things.

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Originally posted by kyrin

That's kinda sad, IMNSHO. Dude didn't seem to be having a lot of fun while playing me, and I'm not sure how much attention he was even paying to my moves. He was just waiting to execute the next standard move for his standard band.

...

Interesting language, too. When someone plays a "non-Tier I" band, it's called a "rogue" band. I would use the word "original."

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Originally posted by Tried
Exactly. But let me ask you for a second how long do you imagine that trip was planned for? Its not like I'd go and not play? And the Colorado guys are really fun. Plus, I owe sienar a beating. [:)]

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Originally posted by guyf


So, while it is 100% reasonable, acceptable, and useful for a player to travel to multiple qualifiers, even if they already qualified, it's also 100% reasonable, acceptable, and useful for some other player to say that such things turn them off of the game.

It's *not* reasonable for a player to say that folks shouldn't be allowed to travel to multiple qualifiers. If that were reasonable, the qualifier rules would contain that restriction. According to the qualifier rules, competitive players are entitled to multiple chances to compete.

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Originally posted by ruhk69

First; just because it is in the qualifier rules doesn't mean it must be reasonable and vice versa.

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This game has a large factor of luck in it and there has been many skilled players who lost key games and qualifying spots over the dice rolls.

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Originally posted by robbdaman

First off you guys seem to be taking this personally and it's not a personal thing. I never named names nor did I direct my comments as being toward any individual.

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Originally posted by kingnanu

The problem I see from a local perspective is that it temporarily killed our local game. As Rob has stated before we have a lot of "casual players". He and I have been working REALLY HARD over the last year to proliferate the interest in the game. "Casual Players" eventually become competitive players and that is what I and I think Rob are trying to build. A competive DDM environment.

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Originally posted by GiliusThunderHead



I'll go out on a limb and say,

"Top Players are Jerks"!!!

Booyaa, how you like me know?
On the other hand I will also say,
"Why is everyone whining so hard about the qualifiers"?

Anyway, true, the Socal scene is cut-throat, yes we love to get your goat, yes we are A-holes. Most of us have NO IDEA how to be GRACIOUS WINNERS, this has been told to me by several observers and is obvious to me as well, as it should be obvious to those who read this thread, and many others like it.

Another point, it's painfully obvious that people who have qualified in 1 qualifier, then travel to another qualifier and make top 4 there as well are REALLY cheesing off the locals. Here is the problem, instead of working on a better solution,many of the self-righteous DDM "Elite" is too busy defending thier "RIGHT" to go to as many qualifiers as they want.... pathetic... either tell people to F-off like men or be a sportsman, encourage your competition, find constructive ways to contribute, or at the very least be OPEN to LISTENING and not too busy defending you rights. LOL as if "qualifier" tournament rules were f-ing gospel etched in stone. Also, the root of the problem is not people PLAYING in multiple qualifiers, it's them qualifying in multiple qualifiers, right?

That being said, I'm from Socal, and I am going to multiple qualifiers.. but I haven't qualified yet, so don't throw stones.

Another thing, people who have already qualified who are traveling to other states, incurring costs that are greater than the price of airfare to Indy, and then they say they just want to win the airfare, are just full of $hit!! I ain't buyin' it. Whatever your reasons for qualifying multiple times, airfare is for sure not it.

Of course, national qualifiers are not for the faint of heart, and whining is always gonna bring admonishment from me. There is both excessive whining, and excessive chest thumping going on here. No big deal though, we are in a competition, so both are to be expected.

So, in closing, Socal Elite DDMers, please stop embarassing yourselves and more importantly, me and other non-elite Socal players, with your constant, "well, we ARE the best and we have the RIGHT to blah blah... ad naseum" and I'm a "top player" so if you say "top players" then of course you mean me! (you can take a little criticism Dagni, I mean why even mention this?? another chance to reiterate your dominance? Everyone knows you rock!)


That being said, I love you all.... and may you all drown in pools of your own minis' blood....

--GiliusThunderHead

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Originally posted by GiliusThunderHead



'Blah, blah, blah' (edited for bandwidth concerns)
--GiliusThunderHead

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