The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13089 Posts
    
Mud Lick, Kentucky
 | | 06/23/2006 7:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
Up: Wand Expert
??????????
Are that many people actually using this fig in tier 1 bands?
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WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/23/2006 9:27 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
Up: Wand Expert
??????????
Are that many people actually using this fig in tier 1 bands?
I'll have to go back and check to see if it was in Extended. What I meant by "up" was, from not in the kit at all up to extended. If it was already in extended, then, no, I don't think it should be moved up to core.
But, it has been showing up in FB/GFD/Rikka builds and hasn't been a waste of those points. I don't have the guts to run something that squishy, but I've seen it.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13089 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 06/23/2006 9:38 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
Up: Wand Expert
??????????
Are that many people actually using this fig in tier 1 bands?
I'll have to go back and check to see if it was in Extended. What I meant by "up" was, from not in the kit at all up to extended. If it was already in extended, then, no, I don't think it should be moved up to core.
But, it has been showing up in FB/GFD/Rikka builds and hasn't been a waste of those points. I don't have the guts to run something that squishy, but I've seen it.
Dave
Nope. Not in the kitand I guess CG needs all the help it can get, so adding it to extended wouldn't be out of line. Not that I have any say in this stuff. [:p] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 06/23/2006 10:56 AM |
| in response to the CloY ( it was the *cleric* right?) my opinion is that its stock only rises with the inclusion of the bodyguard into the game.
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Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
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Foxman
Sergeant
417 Posts
Calgary, AB, Canada
| | 06/23/2006 12:20 PM |
| Today is LE day. Once again here are my suggestions for the toolkit (pre WotDQ of course)
Azer - remove from toolkit (or drop to extended at very least) better pieces for the slot
Gauth - Drop to Extended - too much resistances/non-stun creatures out there
Kobold Miner - drop to extended - its just a quick way to give your opponent an activation advantage - not reliable enough to count on capping VP, but still useful under some circumstances
Darm Moon Monk - Move to Core - MW is too useful for a number of LE figs
Dire Rat - add to extended fits same 4 point slot as Duergar warrior (which might as well be removed anyways)
Mind Flayer - Add to extended - cones + commander raiting = good, moral penelty = GOOD!
Cleric of Nerull - good commander for 5 Doogie champs
War Troll - Add to extended - it can work but it requires finesse to use
Flame Skull - add to extened - undead and immune to cold and fire - good with fire reistant figs - might be enough to keep the Azer in extened as oppose to booting him out - skull works well with helmed horrors
Justicator - add to extended toolkit | |
It would be very unlikely for unlikely events not to occur.
- J. A. Paulos "Innumeracy" | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 12:28 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Foxman
Today is LE day. Once again here are my suggestions for the toolkit (pre WotDQ of course)
I agree, except for:
Azer - Drop to extended rather than remove.
Kobold Miner - Leave in core, as it's still always worth considering.
Dire Rat - Add to core rather than extended.
Mind Flayer, Cleric of Nerull - Leave off the list. What has changed with these figures? I still don't see them being used. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Foxman
Sergeant
417 Posts
Calgary, AB, Canada
| | 06/23/2006 1:12 PM |
| I've seen 5 drugar champs and a CoN being used - one person qualified with it
Mind flayer + Chralls or Helmed horrors = nasty cones - again a qualifer warband
I've also seen a Cleric of Nerual used with a wartroll for death strike from the wartroll... also the cleric can heal undead (not that there are very many of those) | |
It would be very unlikely for unlikely events not to occur.
- J. A. Paulos "Innumeracy" | |
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 1:29 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Foxman
I've seen 5 drugar champs and a CoN being used - one person qualified with it
Mind flayer + Chralls or Helmed horrors = nasty cones - again a qualifer warband
One person qualifying with a figure doesn't necessarily make it toolkit material. Aside from their showing at the European championships, you really don't see these figures being played. Since the toolkit is designed to let players know what figures they need to be competitive, a figure that is rarely played probably won't make it in. | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Foxman
Sergeant
417 Posts
Calgary, AB, Canada
| | 06/23/2006 3:19 PM |
| Sorry my impression must have been wrong. I thought the competitive toolkit contained figures that are competitive in play, not a list of the most popularly used figures.
I went out and got a Cleric of Neurll just for my Quint Drugar champ warband... Its a competitive piece in my opinion. Perhaps not played as much as a Rak but still, I feel it has a place in the extended toolkit.
Anyways, I'm not the one assembling the toolkit, I'm puting down my analysis of pieces as I see it. There is no rule that you or I must agree on it. (discussion in fact is good...)
And just because you may not see something being played does not mean that you are aware of the entire metagame. Comments about qualifiying are there to show that it has proven itself to be a piece that can be played competitivly. | |
It would be very unlikely for unlikely events not to occur.
- J. A. Paulos "Innumeracy" | |
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IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 3:32 PM |
| I'm not sure I see any compelling reason for the justicator to make the LE toolkit. I can see it being in LG.
I would also be wary about dropping the azer all the way out given the possibility that people will start playing firebelchers with WotDQ.
Gauth to extended seems reasonable. I haven't seen one played in a long time.
Kobold Miner stays core, IMO. Hill giant barbarians won't always be a constant in the metagame.
Dark Moon Monk to core I definitely agree with.
Dire Rat goes all the way to core I think, the math works out such that they end up as the tile grabber in a lot of possible LE builds - I keep having 7 points for my last 2 activations.
Mind Flayer hasn't really shown anything yet, and I wouldn't move it to core. It may get to move up there once we've seen how it interacts with the cadaver collector, though.
Cleric of Nerull is borderline. I don't know that I would touch it just yet.
War Troll to extended seems premature. It hasn't really shown anything. I think it is a piece with potential but I wouldn't put it into the toolkit until someone has really made it sing.
Flameskull to extended - maybe. | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
13089 Posts
Mud Lick, Kentucky
| | 06/23/2006 4:12 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
I'm not sure I see any compelling reason for the justicator to make the LE toolkit. I can see it being in LG.
I TOTALLY agree. There are better options in LE. It's defintely stronger in LG. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
I dont mind butting heads every once in a while. It makes thing interesting. Thats why I'd be heartbroken if Ghendar ever left - Posted By Count Dooku on 04/03/2006 11:58 AM
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10493 Posts
United States
| | 06/23/2006 4:19 PM |
| The Justicator is a funny piece. In LE, it has stiff competition from the HH and even from the much-cheaper Duergar Champ. It even has fair competition from the Efreeti.
In LG, it so totally fills a different role from the Arcane Ballista and Couatl (somewhat similarly costed), that it isn't really shunted out by those pieces. It seems to lose out in LG to either a titan or the fact that a couple JAs or Gith Monks is often better than a Justicator and a piece of tech.
I still sometimes dream about a dual- or triple-Justicator build though.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 4:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
Pegasus: Core.
Elf Pyromancer: Move to extended. Fireball isn't nearly as good as it once was. Protection/Resistance from elements are still good, but very conditional.
Elf Stalker: I agree, he should be tossed because either GCR or SHA will be better in pretty much any situation.
Crow Shaman: Extended only. Not useful in enough situations to be core.
Nebin: Nope, not even extended.
Wand Expert: Yep, add to extended.
Xen'drik: Yep, add to extended.
Dragon Totem Hero: Not quite worth it yet.
Drizzt: Not until Tordek comes out.
Warchanter: Core
Voice of Battle: Nope. If you need Improved Countersong, you may as well pay the extra point for Warchanter. +4 save beats Curse of Impending Blades.
Across the board agreement, with the caveat of Drizzt maybe not even then. thats a wait and see. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 06/23/2006 4:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by IanB
Dire Rat goes all the way to core I think, the math works out such that they end up as the tile grabber in a lot of possible LE builds - I keep having 7 points for my last 2 activations.
Mind Flayer hasn't really shown anything yet, and I wouldn't move it to core. It may get to move up there once we've seen how it interacts with the cadaver collector, though.
Cleric of Nerull is borderline. I don't know that I would touch it just yet.
War Troll to extended seems premature. It hasn't really shown anything. I think it is a piece with potential but I wouldn't put it into the toolkit until someone has really made it sing.
Flameskull to extended - maybe.
On these I agree whole heartedly with the rat, I end up with 7 alot too. Agree 100% on the mind flayer and nerull. I think Troll is worth extended, and not sure if the flameskull is or not.
My take on the Troll is not just that it qualed (dual trolls) but that it offers alot in a nice package, and there were several people (myself included) playing around with Wartroll/DChamp x3 bands that for a variety of reasons at the time fell short but that still was a very nice band. Its nowhere near core yet, but I think it fits nicely into the extended slot as its really LEs premeire titan (though CC might now give it a run for that title)
Likewise though I am president of his fan club, I think it might be time to move the Khumat down from the extended for now. Until a meta shift (if ever) happens that lowers the amount of fearless and or large he just doesn't have what it takes I dont think. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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